Max flying/running speed?

Malahite · Subject: Re: Max flying/running speed? Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:22 pm

While I'm working on the running calc right now (Look at my edit in the last post), I will say this:

With the way you have the scaling right now, Negav should have fallen long ago. Very long ago. Weapons comparable to a 120mm armour cannon would be similar to someone poking a Predator. Unless Negav is mounting something similar to railguns of ridiculous sizes, the weapons would be worthless against the denizens of Felarya. As would almost all magic - Predator or Prey available.

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Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

GREGOLE · Subject: Re: Max flying/running speed? Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:24 pm

Lessee.... Giant monsters... impervious to conventional weaponry...

Uh.... HOW is this new, exactly?

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Malahite · Subject: Re: Max flying/running speed? Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:31 pm

Running speed: A human can run about 15mph on average (as the highest number I could find for "on average"). As was stated earlier, we cover about 31 inches a stride. At 15mph, we're going a little over 22ft/s. Turning that into inches and dividing by 31, we get about 8.5 strides a second. Again working with an 80ft height for the Predator, we have 40ft strides. Multiplying that by 8.5 gives us about 340ft/s (or a smidge over 100m/s), we've got a max running speed of - much higher than even the estimated 200mph given on page one - 231 miles per hour.

While we were all underestimating running speed, I was greatly underestimating such. I apologize for any inconvenience over this topic, and will concede that (at least in running) Predators should be able to get "really fast".

This leaves us now then with how much we should adjust reaction times to efficiently handle such speeds, how much a variable slithering / being arachnoid / etc makes., how much the jungle limits the running speeds, etc.

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Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

Malahite · Subject: Re: Max flying/running speed? Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:34 pm

GREGOLE wrote:

Lessee.... Giant monsters... impervious to conventional weaponry...

Uh.... HOW is this new, exactly?

Because it basically means Miratans, Negav, and all them should not even be on the map anymore. Unless your main piece of armour is comparable to a Bolo Mk 33 tank, if a Predator knows you're there they should be able to take you down. And as far as I'm aware, Negav's weapons and that available to the Miratans make them safe from Predator attack. Heck, the Miratan base is safe with just two heavy cannons. Unless we're assuming either kilotons are lobbed by the thing or it's lobbing around shells the size of a trailer house, that shouldn't be anywhere near enough to even draw the Predator's attention.

_________________

Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

rcs619 · Subject: Re: Max flying/running speed? Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:42 pm

Quote:

Malahite said:
Or, an argument one can make to explain them never going that fast in stories, is that while they can reach such speeds, they're still human-like in reaction times.

Imagine a Fairy attempting to weave through the forest when it crosses roughly 60m (at least) in the time it takes them to react to something. They'd splat against a tree and 'explode' rather spectacularly.

Alright...the scale of the speed is the same to them as it is to a smaller creature. A harpy would have no more trouble controlling its speed than any other bird of prey. As for your argument about reaction times...you should remember that the predators are NOT human. They are part animal, and posess enhanced senses, reflexes and reaction times.

Quote:

Similarly, it would be very detrimental to hunting prey because by the time they've realized they saw something they would have already notified it of their presence with a Sonic Boom and are going to spend more time turning around / bringing themselves to a stop.

You do realize the point of this thread is MAXIMUM speed right? Not practical ones. We arent saying that harpies would constantly fly around at full speed. Real birds dont do it because it isnt practical. We're saying they COULD go supersonic...based on the physics that they are subject to. OF COURSE they would fly slower and more deliberately when hunting.

...and as far as the sonic boom...it travels BEHIND the object going supersonic. The prey would never even hear anything coming until after the pred had arrived. As far as hunting goes, the sonic boom could even be a weapon. If a 90ft tall, 100+ton harpy flies right overhead..that sonic boom WILL send you flying, and probably blow out your eardrums for that matter.

Your argument about "one-shot punching things" was handled well by Gregole. Of course the durabilities would be scaled up as well. Crisis punching Anna would be like a human punching a human. Crisis punching a human WOULD be like several busses hitting them...since her hand weighs several hundred pounds and will be travelling fast.

Quote:

Malahite said:
I think they might be able to get close with magical aid, but flying supersonic or above naturally seems like a silly - as well as a pointless - ability in a Vore-centered universe.

So, a peregrine falcon being able to dive at speeds in excess of 250mph (1/2 the speed of sound) is silly, right?

...and this is a pet-peeve of mine. Felarya is NOT a vore-centered world That is exactly the image Karbo is trying to get away from. It is a fantasy themed world where vore will sometimes happen. He went to great lengths with his recent art and manga to get away from the image that Felarya was all about eating.

Quote:

I've seen quite the opposite. Such as Predators wading through 7.62mm NATO fire with the bullets bouncing off regular flesh, explosives from infantry anti-tank weapons only leaving minor burns (the flesh not even being breached), etc. simply because the skin must then be hundreds of times more durable than a human's.

Yeah, we've all seen stories like that. But they're wrong as well. Assault Rifle rounds might sting somewhat to a pred, but larger caliber rounds, like .50cal and various anti-armor rounds could be lethal with a headshot. Explosives can be iffy though. They are dependant on shrapnel...and with a pred, the shrapnel would be tiny, and if it did any damage, it would be minimal. Fire would still work though, so there's always napalm.

Quote:

Malahite said:
I - again - personally doubt it. At least outside diving extreme distances. If the can, I must again point out that it'd be horribly impractical and likely only be of use when a Harpy needs to "Get the hell away" from something

You do realize that most harpies tend to live in mountainous areas, right? they arent flying at full speed through the trees. They'd be flying across plains, mountains and vast open expanses more than anything...where speed would be VERY preactical to get anyway in any amount of time.

Quote:

Malahite said:
EDIT: Their stride may be increased, but speed of the step itself? Right now, assuming that they make a step as fast as a human (roughly two-to-three each second), they're going to be going either 27mph or 40mph at a 20ft stride. Of course, this seems a bit silly. Especially only 20ft a stride. But then, a human only covering 1.5ft each stride seems silly also. Using math, it turns out the average male stride is about 31in. With the average male being something like 5'10" (or 70 inches), that's just shy of 1/2 the height... but that also makes about one stride a second at walking speed. Giving the Predators two to be generous, and at 1/2 their height (of 80ft we'll say for this debate) for 40ft each, we're speaking 80ft covered a second. This brings them up to... 54mph for walking speed.

Thank you for making my point even more valid. Your math just proved that at a BASIC WALK, a pred would be moving at more than 50mph...as fast as a car goes on the highway...and a BASIC WALK at that. That means that they would easily break 100mph in a full run with no problem. I could see them getting to 120-150mph though ^_^

Malahite wrote:

GREGOLE wrote:

Lessee.... Giant monsters... impervious to conventional weaponry...

Uh.... HOW is this new, exactly?

Because it basically means Miratans, Negav, and all them should not even be on the map anymore. Unless your main piece of armour is comparable to a Bolo Mk 33 tank, if a Predator knows you're there they should be able to take you down. And as far as I'm aware, Negav's weapons and that available to the Miratans make them safe from Predator attack. Heck, the Miratan base is safe with just two heavy cannons. Unless we're assuming either kilotons are lobbed by the thing or it's lobbing around shells the size of a trailer house, that shouldn't be anywhere near enough to even draw the Predator's attention.

You'd do well to not forget the eye of Negav...which is what actually protects Negav.

Either way, you wouldnt need a tank, lol. Preds, while massive are still flesh and bone. High-powered, armor-piercing rifles aimed for the head would be enough to pierce the skill. end of pred.

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timing2 · Moderator Posts: 117 Join date: 2009-06-29

Someone brought up the peregrine falcon, so I thought I'd throw this out to consider.

The peregrine falcon velocity during a dive has nothing to do with the bird flapping its wings - its all a matter of gravity versus the area & drag coefficient of the bird.

Head out, wings held tight against the body, and claws extended back, the bird minimizes both area and drag coefficient and literally falls out of the sky.

The work is being done by gravity and the only reason the bird doesn't go faster is air resistance.

A human skydiver can achieve velocities of 225 - 230mph simply by freefalling in a vertical position, head down, limbs held tight against the body - same as the falcon does.

The highest skydive on record was made by Joseph Kittinger. It was also the fastest skydive ever - he reached 614 mph. That, by the way, is the record for the highest velocity by a human being through the atmosphere, at least according to the Guinness Book of World Records.

The problem with great speed is ... great air resistance. That's something I don't see being taken into account here. The bigger you are, the more air resistance you're going to have to overcome to achieve a given velocity. That's why sports cars are typically small and lightweight. You increase either of those two attributes, and the horsepower requirements to reach a given speed increase in lock step. Giant predators aren't really very aerodynamic, so barring magic or dimensional weirdness, they aren't going to be running around breaking the sound barrier.

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rcs619 · Subject: Re: Max flying/running speed? Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:25 am

timing2 wrote:

Someone brought up the peregrine falcon, so I thought I'd throw this out to consider.

The peregrine falcon velocity during a dive has nothing to do with the bird flapping its wings - its all a matter of gravity versus the area & drag coefficient of the bird.

Head out, wings held tight against the body, and claws extended back, the bird minimizes both area and drag coefficient and literally falls out of the sky.

The work is being done by gravity and the only reason the bird doesn't go faster is air resistance.

A human skydiver can achieve velocities of 225 - 230mph simply by freefalling in a vertical position, head down, limbs held tight against the body - same as the falcon does.

The highest skydive on record was made by Joseph Kittinger. It was also the fastest skydive ever - he reached 614 mph. That, by the way, is the record for the highest velocity by a human being through the atmosphere, at least according to the Guinness Book of World Records.

The problem with great speed is ... great air resistance. That's something I don't see being taken into account here. The bigger you are, the more air resistance you're going to have to overcome to achieve a given velocity. That's why sports cars are typically small and lightweight. You increase either of those two attributes, and the horsepower requirements to reach a given speed increase in lock step. Giant predators aren't really very aerodynamic, so barring magic or dimensional weirdness, they aren't going to be running around breaking the sound barrier.

If you tried to take in gravity, air resistance and so on...giant predators would not even be able to exist..much less fly. The laws that effect them are different, and allow them to behave like a scaled up version of a human, essentially. Thats how giantesses can run, jump and roll and how harpies can even fly. But yes, Harpies of any kind are hardly aerodynamic and shouldnt be able to fly...but they do.

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~ GREGOLE

timing2 · Moderator Posts: 117 Join date: 2009-06-29

rcs619 wrote:

If you tried to take in gravity, air resistance and so on...giant predators would not even be able to exist..much less fly. The laws that effect them are different, and allow them to behave like a scaled up version of a human, essentially. Thats how giantesses can run, jump and roll and how harpies can even fly. But yes, Harpies of any kind are hardly aerodynamic and shouldnt be able to fly...but they do.

Then the answer becomes whatever the writer/artist can get away with before people begin calling BS.

This puts a new spin on the Princess Bride quote, "I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using." Laughing

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