What is the best tactical and strategic offense against...

Karbo · Evil admin Posts: 1658 Join date: 2007-12-08

*topics merged*

Raveolution

Karbo wrote:

*topics merged*

LOL what do you think of the predator combined arms idea?

Malahite

Raveolution wrote:

There are also the Scarlet Elves. Being giant and also highly agile,

Unfortunately, this doesn't help much when your arm takes up about as much volume as a double decker bus, each half.

wrote:

especially against massed forces of giant mecha and main battle tanks/supertanks.

Depends on the terrain, and scenario in general. Certain Mechs, Tanks, etc would just be... cruel. Bolo High-Mark tanks (Which measure their main weapon's firepower in Gigatons per SECOND), certain Gundams, Titans, Gears, etc, and a bunch of other things could likely match.

Oh, and the (almost always present) infantry support. Though these would be good for sudden assaults, yes. If they can sneak up on a position, they could wreck the place.

wrote:

To support the Scarlet Elves and Crimson Maiden Fire Legions, Dryads can serve as a vast, forest-wide communications network; they can also decimate ground forces and, in the event of an incoming napalm attack, call in...

Decimate? Takes only a few sappers with the propper equipment (Then again, that only requires a convenient root slip to ruin) to take out a Dryad, and again there are some absurd ground forces in fiction. The fact that you're relying on a warning for the napalm attacks also leaves a slight problem.

wrote:

Canopy faeries. Aside from fulfilling basic air and ground combat roles, these forces are phenomenally effective in penetrating enemy lines a la commando forces, and inflicting mass casualties - or taking out human/neko/elf pilots of critical units - with their "belly warp" attack. Upon the onset of this attack, it is highly likely that surrounding forces will be extremely demoralized, especially considering that they cannot hit this target once it starts phasing through dimensions. At the same time, they can be accompanied by...

Yet again, depends on the scenario. Some things have their own phasing units, or reality warpers.

wrote:

Storm Sprites as specialists and saboteurs. These beings can utterly decimate electronic systems - and troops as well.

Forward with the Steam/Wheel Powered Mech's w/ Kiloton-Grade weapons! 'Ere we go! 'Ere we go! 'Ere we go!

wrote:

Harpies can distract air units

Not well, Air Units are among the worst things for harpies to hunt (With armour being the best). They'll only catch a jet by a pure fluke or magical aid (Speeds of several hundred meters per second tend to do this), while the Jet's will be using pretty high velocity and decent armour-piercing rounds. Let alone what happens if a several ton jet at Mach 3 accidentally slams into one: It'd be raining red on all forces below. Armour, meanwhile, has trouble tracking ariel units (Compared to most other forces). Similarly, a grab from above to drop the armour onto the enemy and cause havoc would be too good an opportunity to miss in many scenarios.

wrote:

until Faeries of various types can join the fight. Harpies are best utilized on a first-to-fight, first-to-die basis; although Demon harpies can serve as armored air cavalry. Harpies are good at spotting enemy commando units sneaking up on Predator forces by air or land.

Depends on how well concealed the commando unit is. Similarly, 'Sneaking Up' goes anywhere from standard flanking (In some doctrines) to "Drop troops from 40km up with technobable decelerator's to land them safely and ready for combat" assaults (There is at least one fiction with such, excluding drop-pods). The Harpies, to me, seem best for anti-armour and a guided form of artillery (If short ranged).

wrote:

Centaurs can run down fleeing ground units but are not advised to charge armored, heavily armed forces.

This will work for the most part, provided terrain allows it. Running down fleeing troops is something most people fail to realize the importance of (We've routed them, the day is ours!). Namely, the fact that said troops can rally, leave behind specialists to harry the enemy, etc.

wrote:

They can serve as fast infantry, charging in to cause confusion and break up enemy ranks. They should be quickly followed up by other forces for support.

Agreed. Cavalry charges will fail if you don't rout the enemy quickly, as you'll quickly get bogged down. Thermal Detonator carrying troops surrounding an immobile being with vulnerable legs means one dead being.

wrote:

Nagas and Driders can serve in the role of regular army ground forces - by putting sheer numbers on the battlefield, as well as adding their magic abilities to the fray.

Where pet Mages / Psykers are needed. You'll need something to counter / defend against the magics, while retaliating what your normal troops cannot assault. Both sides need to beware any specialist on the oppossing force that uses very precise Psykers (Namely, "Pop a blood vessel in your brain" precise, as that'll feth up any army).

wrote:

Mermaid types can harass warships at sea.

Warships have much less use on Felarya than underwater vessels, though this is still a big problem. Most Sub's can only fire in frontal arcs, which leaves the mermaids with a wide area to assault.

wrote:

Also note that fairies in general make great infiltrators due to their ability to shrink down to three inches.

Agreed, though this role would do them better to work as sabetour's (sp). Mages on either side could help to do this (A mage casting a glorified "Enlarge" spell on a human to get a spy on the Pred's, for instance), though by the same token mages on either side could thwart these attempts.

wrote:

Once having swarmed unnoticed into an enemy defense force, they can very suddenly grow to 100 feet and force the enemy to scatter, thus creating confusion, and most importantly, huge gaps in human/neko/elf formations - gaps that can then be exploited.

I doubt a swarm could be snuck in, though this is a good role for them, yes.

Similarly, though I never mentioned it above (to my knowledge): Artillery in the form of larger predators throwing massive quantities of large stones.

wrote:

Human, Neko and Elf forces should at least factor these issues into their offensive and defensive strategies.

Luckily, it is unlikely to face large numbers of opposition on this scale. That is not to say that such a scenario should not be planned for, but multiple species of predators, and in large numbers, tend not to congregate much.

_________________

Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

rcs619

Humans/nekos- really anything that kills/blows shit up. If your friends with a pred, turn it loose.

Dryad- "I love the smell of napalm in the morning, it smells like freedom" seriously napalm or big ass chainsaws.

Fairies- dont mess with the fairies, what did they ever do to you other than try to eat you Wink

maybe flyswatters? depends on the size i guess. Just be creative and use you better judgement.

Nagas- "we need bigger guns" really anything that could take down a monster about the size of a small house. Maybe a railgun, they shoot projectiles at mach 7. Thats gotta be able to pierce through anything.

Mermaids- just dont go in the water.

Harpys- stinger missles, AA guns, RPG's.

just use you best judgement and remember, "when in doubt, volume, volume, volume."

_________________
My Stories, Drawings and Stuff: http://rcs619.deviantart.com/

> "Go then. There are other worlds than these." - John "Jake" Chambers

> "Something strange is going on in this land of magic and giant, topless, flesh-eating animal-women!"
~ GREGOLE

Raveolution

[quote="Malahite"Unfortunately, this doesn't help much when your arm takes up about as much volume as a double decker bus, each half.[/quote]
It worked just fine for the Zentraedi in hand to hand combat. These elves don't need precision, they can punch it out with mechs, most of whom are not as tall as themselves. They can safely run over and past mines, depending on how fast they run.

Granted, this is far more effective when they are backed up by flame-throwing Crimson Maidens.

Malahite wrote:

especially against massed forces of giant mecha and main battle tanks/supertanks.

Corporeally bound units would be highly vulnerable to this, indeed. If you can put that much mobile iron on the battlefield you can prevail against predator combined arms.

Malahite wrote:

Depends on the terrain, and scenario in general. Certain Mechs, Tanks, etc would just be... cruel. Bolo High-Mark tanks (Which measure their main weapon's firepower in Gigatons per SECOND), certain Gundams, Titans, Gears, etc, and a bunch of other things could likely match.

Eek, Bolo Concordiat tanks? Vicious. The Bolo is itself a combined arms system - a carrier vessel for other tanks and Wyvern scout flyers.

My question is, would, say, the Miratans be able to build such a thing? And I would seriously ponder the risk of a Storm Sprite being warped in by a Canopy Fairy to disable it. That would be an expensive loss of equipment.

I'd put more faith in Gundams. Titans... hoorah. Nothing like Crimson Maiden fireballs bouncing off armored walking fortresses with cannons belching flaming apocalypse while flanked by those Imperial Marines? My God. That's measured in dead Fire Legions per minute (FLPM), lol!

THE choice mech that I would want in this scenario? The Aura Battler Dunbine or its siblings. These mechs are biologically constructed with super hard chitinous armor and are built with agility in mind; they might even have "indigestion" written all over them, aside from being way too big for anything to eat. And when pissed they can rival a Bolo tank in firepower. One sneeze=Tokyo, according to the anime "Dunbine". Aura Battlers scream "made specifically for the humans of Felarya". BTW Dunbine the anime also had elves and fairies as primary characters. Shocked

(Along with Macross, Dunbine was what got me into anime: I saw fairies, I bought the anime!)

Malahite wrote:

Oh, and the (almost always present) infantry support. Though these would be good for sudden assaults, yes. If they can sneak up on a position, they could wreck the place.

Predators supposedly can easily detect prey - that means they can detect these units.

Malahite wrote:

Decimate? Takes only a few sappers with the propper equipment (Then again, that only requires a convenient root slip to ruin) to take out a Dryad, and again there are some absurd ground forces in fiction. The fact that you're relying on a warning for the napalm attacks also leaves a slight problem.

I thought about sappers but I would not count on them getting close enough.

But yeah, if sappers or napalmers can get in there, they would make tree huggers cry. Of course dryads eat tree huggers butidigress.

Malahite wrote:

Yet again, depends on the scenario. Some things have their own phasing units, or reality warpers.

Well, if Dr. Strange or the Scarlet Witch showed up, they would certainly turn any man-eating thing into a crate. Majin Buu, well, he's a vore in his own class. Kiki and Katrika = candy.

Malahite wrote:

(about Storm Sprites)Forward with the Steam/Wheel Powered Mech's w/ Kiloton-Grade weapons! 'Ere we go! 'Ere we go! 'Ere we go!

Storm Sprites would sneak into the steam mechs and devour the pilots.

*cringe* I hate Storm Sprites and Canopy Fairies...

Malahite wrote:

(me: Harpies can distract air units) Not well, Air Units are among the worst things for harpies to hunt (With armour being the best). They'll only catch a jet by a pure fluke or magical aid (Speeds of several hundred meters per second tend to do this), while the Jet's will be using pretty high velocity and decent armour-piercing rounds. Let alone what happens if a several ton jet at Mach 3 accidentally slams into one: It'd be raining red on all forces below. Armour, meanwhile, has trouble tracking ariel units (Compared to most other forces). Similarly, a grab from above to drop the armour onto the enemy and cause havoc would be too good an opportunity to miss in many scenarios.

True. Armor units could use SAM defenses though. Or put a lot of flak in the air.

Malahite wrote:

Depends on how well concealed the commando unit is. Similarly, 'Sneaking Up' goes anywhere from standard flanking (In some doctrines) to "Drop troops from 40km up with technobable decelerator's to land them safely and ready for combat" assaults (There is at least one fiction with such, excluding drop-pods). The Harpies, to me, seem best for anti-armour and a guided form of artillery (If short ranged).

Quite true.

Malahite wrote:

This will work for the most part, provided terrain allows it. Running down fleeing troops is something most people fail to realize the importance of (We've routed them, the day is ours!). Namely, the fact that said troops can rally, leave behind specialists to harry the enemy, etc.

Indeed, Centaurs will run them down, if for no other reason but to eat them.

Malahite wrote:

Agreed. Cavalry charges will fail if you don't rout the enemy quickly, as you'll quickly get bogged down. Thermal Detonator carrying troops surrounding an immobile being with vulnerable legs means one dead being.

Yup - which is why they're mainly effective as part of a blitz.

[quote="Malahite"Where pet Mages / Psykers are needed. You'll need something to counter / defend against the magics, while retaliating what your normal troops cannot assault. Both sides need to beware any specialist on the oppossing force that uses very precise Psykers (Namely, "Pop a blood vessel in your brain" precise, as that'll feth up any army).[/quote]
Do Preds have any Psykers (I assume that means "psionics")?

Malahite wrote:

Warships have much less use on Felarya than underwater vessels, though this is still a big problem. Most Sub's can only fire in frontal arcs, which leaves the mermaids with a wide area to assault.

They need depth charges or they need to stay out of the water, lol.

Malahite wrote:

Agreed, though this role would do them better to work as sabetour's (sp). Mages on either side could help to do this (A mage casting a glorified "Enlarge" spell on a human to get a spy on the Pred's, for instance), though by the same token mages on either side could thwart these attempts.

No need for a mage - if you're talking about a human enlarged to macro size to spy? That's easy to ferret them out. Offer one a tasty normal sized human and watch them turn green in the face. Then gang up on him.

Malahite wrote:

I doubt a swarm could be snuck in, though this is a good role for them, yes.

Similarly, though I never mentioned it above (to my knowledge): Artillery in the form of larger predators throwing massive quantities of large stones.

Yup - stones, fireballs (Crimson Maidens), etc.

Malahite wrote:

Luckily, it is unlikely to face large numbers of opposition on this scale. That is not to say that such a scenario should not be planned for, but multiple species of predators, and in large numbers, tend not to congregate much.

True, it's not likely. But more limited combined arms attacks could readily happen, if the predators realize they're being systematically wiped out.

Malahite

Its All 19 wrote:

Humans/nekos- really anything that kills/blows shit up. If your friends with a pred, turn it loose.

Not always the best idea, as pointed out in some topics. Though I did have a nice idea of knocking out and shrinking a predator (Letting it never know who did such), put it in some annoying city (Or nearby), and time it so it awakens and expands roughly at the same time while believing the nearby city is what did the act to the predator. Good times as the Pred clears the town, and you stroll in a day later looting what's left.

wrote:

Mermaids- just dont go in the water.

Or drain it. What's that? You only have gills, no lungs?

wrote:

just use you best judgement and remember, "when in doubt, volume, volume, volume."

Quantity has a quality of its own.

_________________

Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

Raveolution

Malahite wrote:

wrote:

Mermaids- just dont go in the water.

Or drain it. What's that? You only have gills, no lungs?

But how would you drain it?

Pendragon

Often, many creatures have their weaknesses, but few have a tactical advantage versus a guardian. However there are methods to surviving versus one of these titans of Felaryan proportions. The best of these tactics against defeating a guardian can often be the simplest one, and each guardian does have a weakness, so you have to search carefully.

Mercreti- utilize any anti-magic necessary. Avoid confrontation with massive armies. They fall rather easily. Unless you're semi-immortal, avoid this guardian at all costs.

Trejal- Have any anti-spirit energy weaponry available. Be wary of his surroundings. He may use them to his advantage. Do not underestimate his wisdom at any point.

Nemyra- bring an army of half hybrid insectoids, rendering her magic weaker. Ensure they can fly too, or she'll just stomp on them. Either that or turn Quaz against her. Other than that, you're looking at a one way ticket to her stomach.

Quaz- bring massive amounts of bug spray, to deal with his legions. As for dealing with his harder tan diamond shell, utilize anti-matter weapons, capable of cutting through any matter in the universe (lightsabers, laser blades). Despite such, Quaz is still considered to be extremely unpredictable, and should be taken with caution.

Notys- Considered the most dangerous of all the guardians (citation needed), not much can be attained about how or even if she fights. Pray you do not encounter her.

_________________
http://felarya.forumotion.com/stories-discussion-f5/the-anchor-brothers-in-felarya-t243.htm?highlight=anchor+brothers
http://felarya.forumotion.com/stories-discussion-f5/the-anchor-brothers-the-great-search-t1521.htm
http://felarya.forumotion.com/stories-discussion-f5/the-tale-of-the-traveling-trio-t839.htm?highlight=traveling+trio
^my stories

Raveolution

Pendragon wrote:

Often, many creatures have their weaknesses, but few have a tactical advantage versus a guardian. However there are methods to surviving versus one of these titans of Felaryan proportions. The best of these tactics against defeating a guardian can often be the simplest one, and each guardian does have a weakness, so you have to search carefully.

Mercreti- utilize any anti-magic necessary. Avoid confrontation with massive armies. They fall rather easily. Unless you're semi-immortal, avoid this guardian at all costs.

Trejal- Have any anti-spirit energy weaponry available. Be wary of his surroundings. He may use them to his advantage. Do not underestimate his wisdom at any point.

Nemyra- bring an army of half hybrid insectoids, rendering her magic weaker. Ensure they can fly too, or she'll just stomp on them. Either that or turn Quaz against her. Other than that, you're looking at a one way ticket to her stomach.

Quaz- bring massive amounts of bug spray, to deal with his legions. As for dealing with his harder tan diamond shell, utilize anti-matter weapons, capable of cutting through any matter in the universe (lightsabers, laser blades). Despite such, Quaz is still considered to be extremely unpredictable, and should be taken with caution.

Notys- Considered the most dangerous of all the guardians (citation needed), not much can be attained about how or even if she fights. Pray you do not encounter her.

Okay, here's my opinion.

To subdue a guardian, you need:

a) Majin Buu. Hungry and ready to eat. Or SSJ4 Gokuu, preferably as a Golden Oozaru, with Kamehameha or Genki Dama ready to launch on sight. Or the Scarlet Witch. Or Dr. Strange.
b) The element of complete surprise. Or the ability to stop time shifting.
c) The burning desire and the utter cojones to finish the job right then, right there, and make sure they're 150% dead, or de-powered.

Fail to come to the Guardians with all of the above at the same time, and you might as well come to the Guardians with this instead:

Raveolution

Speaking of salt, wouldn't flooding a predator's stomach with Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) turn their stomach acids to salt?

I can imagine feeding a giant Naga or a giant Fairy a very human-looking bag of NaOH and when the container dissolves in her stomach, whammo. A belly full of salt. And if you can find a way to keep pumping in NaOH the digestive acids will keep coming and turning into salt until *POP*.

Malahite

Decent trap against predators: Some form of trip-wire (Odds are they'll never see it) connected to something with a very strong source of poison. Predator is unlikely to notice it, or even the snapping of it. A small enough device, cared for correctly, will make it appear as nothing more than an injury from a stubborn branch. Give the Poison its time to act...

_________________

Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

Raveolution

Malahite wrote:

Decent trap against predators: Some form of trip-wire (Odds are they'll never see it) connected to something with a very strong source of poison. Predator is unlikely to notice it, or even the snapping of it. A small enough device, cared for correctly, will make it appear as nothing more than an injury from a stubborn branch. Give the Poison its time to act...

And some poison will work, despite comments to the contrary. Rin's mother was killed by the poison from a Kensha beast. A wristblade with a superhigh concentration of super enhanced Kensha poison will at least take care of giant nagas. The moment she grabs you, it's snakeskin boots city.

Also, a good idea is to copy Tonorion anti-magic traits. That might take some serious study of their genetics, but the payoff is absolutely huge. If you've got Tonorion anti-magic and a rapid fire large caliber (30mm or larger) railgun, what predator can't you bring down, especially at 1-2 clicks away?

Malahite

Raveolution wrote:

And some poison will work, despite comments to the contrary. Rin's mother was killed by the poison from a Kensha beast. A wristblade with a superhigh concentration of super enhanced Kensha poison will at least take care of giant nagas. The moment she grabs you, it's snakeskin boots city.

And that still isn't the best we can do. Of course, these still rely on the fact that once the poison takes effect, there's no time for the Predator to seek aid. Doesn't help to have some White Mage casting Esuna on every Predator you (almost) kill.

wrote:

Also, a good idea is to copy Tonorion anti-magic traits. That might take some serious study of their genetics, but the payoff is absolutely huge. If you've got Tonorion anti-magic and a rapid fire large caliber (30mm or larger) railgun, what predator can't you bring down, especially at 1-2 clicks away?

Railguns alone are a death-sentence to most beings. Decent combination for soldiers to take on Pred's:

1) Anti-Magic traits, as you said, can be helpful. This takes away many benefits you can give the warrior though, so choose whether there will be a reliance on tech or magic early on.
2) Railgun of decent range. Again, very helpful. Much less drawbacks, though, except over-penetration. Very useful if you can add...
3) 'Bullet'-time soldiers. By this, I mean very high reaction times. Be it genetic engineering, combat stimm's, whatever, the ability to quickly modify aim, dodge attacks, revise attacks, etc, can come in very helpful here.
4) Something to discourage value as 'food'. This can work in any way from "Parasite, non-harmful to human, inside soldiers", to "Strap to loads of C4" to "Grey Goo device". If it gets the job done, it's worth keeping.

_________________

Commander Fleyitch wrote:

Ogryns. If we time it just right, the Eldar will all be going "What the..." just when what's left of the Company breaks cover over here and piles into them. No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.

"We die standing."

rcs619

Finally...someone else who appreciates the power of railguns. Railguns kick ass cheers

_________________
My Stories, Drawings and Stuff: http://rcs619.deviantart.com/

> "Go then. There are other worlds than these." - John "Jake" Chambers

> "Something strange is going on in this land of magic and giant, topless, flesh-eating animal-women!"
~ GREGOLE

Raveolution

Malahite wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

And some poison will work, despite comments to the contrary. Rin's mother was killed by the poison from a Kensha beast. A wristblade with a superhigh concentration of super enhanced Kensha poison will at least take care of giant nagas. The moment she grabs you, it's snakeskin boots city.

And that still isn't the best we can do. Of course, these still rely on the fact that once the poison takes effect, there's no time for the Predator to seek aid. Doesn't help to have some White Mage casting Esuna on every Predator you (almost) kill.

White Mage? Is there actually a mage on Felarya that would help a Pred?

Malahite wrote:

Railguns alone are a death-sentence to most beings. Decent combination for soldiers to take on Pred's:

1) Anti-Magic traits, as you said, can be helpful. This takes away many benefits you can give the warrior though, so choose whether there will be a reliance on tech or magic early on.
2) Railgun of decent range. Again, very helpful. Much less drawbacks, though, except over-penetration. Very useful if you can add...
3) 'Bullet'-time soldiers. By this, I mean very high reaction times. Be it genetic engineering, combat stimm's, whatever, the ability to quickly modify aim, dodge attacks, revise attacks, etc, can come in very helpful here.
4) Something to discourage value as 'food'. This can work in any way from "Parasite, non-harmful to human, inside soldiers", to "Strap to loads of C4" to "Grey Goo device". If it gets the job done, it's worth keeping.

I would go for tech and try to counter all magic in the area, then railgun the crap out of the hostiles. Corporeal units = low hanging fruit. Bigger preds like mycodryads and swamp dryads = fuel air explosives.

Bullet time troops? Saiyans are excellent bullet-time soldiers. If you can get even one human-friendly Saiyan on the battlefield, especially if he can go Oozaru, your question then is, what Pred of any sort, anywhere, will survive? I don't even know if elementals would hold the line against a Saiyan. Problem is, Saiyans kill humans. And everything else, too. But at least they don't eat them. Not ever. (I'd rather be killed in a fight with a Saiyan than in a fight with Crisis.)

BTW I've done a re-study of the entire bestiary and I notice that there are no defenses against Psykers. Sure, there's a defense against magic, but nothing I can see against Psykers. Teekers and telepaths. A diamond naga can reflect magic, but a teeker can just make her brain go pop. Good telepaths can distract and hold down an army of preds while railgunners pick them off at a distance.

I'd be interested in wondering if psykers can handle elementals.