Downplaying the snake

vegeta002 · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:44 pm

When Vivian's involved, they don't accept fate. They just don't know anything's happening until it's too late.

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Age: 190 - Gender: Male
Element: Ki energy - Height: - 100 foot
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Eyes: Bright Gold

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Arcamenel · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:35 am

yeah vivian does seem to be lucky among her species to be able to sit there and prey just "wanders" into her XD

I also think that the "felaryan sense" would be more species-specific than anything else.

Also, just because a naga is half snake doesn't mean it's completely snake-like some snake and human traits i think would give the advantages of both, instead of just having all the abilities of a snake.

I think the slit eyes are really cool, and they could be implimented but human eyes blink, so have that as well.
Scales would give armor, but the warm-blooded human trait would make it so they can survive in cold.

See what I mean? Ｔｈｅｓｅ　ｓｐｅｃｉｅｓ　ａｒｅ　ｈｙｂｒｉｄｓ．

Anime-Junkie · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:22 am

For the unhinging jaw issue...
Quote from unmuseum.org
"Although it is often said a snake's jaw can be unhinged from the skull to allow something much larger than the snake's mouth to be swallowed, the jaws are actually connected by a ligament that stretches."
So snakes cannot unhinge their jaws. Therefore why should nagas?

French snack · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:18 am

GREGOLE wrote:

There really isn't a single Felaryan naga right now that is ok with eating other nagas.

Yes there is. Jissy. She acknowledges that most other nagas don't do that, though.

Quote:

And looking at how Felarya has evolved, I think some niche species are in order. Something to set them apart. I mean, when mermaids are gaining mudskipping abilities and venomous spines, harpies are turning into seagulls and hummingbirds, dryads come in seaweed and original recipe and trapdoor-dridders are showing up, it strikes me as rather irksome that nagas - the single most overused species in Felarya - have absolutely nothing to set them apart.

We're obviously not going to change the facts about existing naga characters. But subspecies with distinguishing characteristics, as you propose, strike me as a very interesting (and logical) idea.

Go and create some. Razz

Karbo · Evil admin Posts: 1658 Join date: 2007-12-08

GREGOLE wrote:

My problem with nagas is that there's simply no REASON for them to be part snake. Take any random naga character and tell me: What do they gain from being part snake that being a giant human wouldn't offer?
The short answer is, sans a couple venomous specimens, absolutely nothing. And looking at how Felarya has evolved, I think some niche species are in order. Something to set them apart. I mean, when mermaids are gaining mudskipping abilities and venomous spines, harpies are turning into seagulls and hummingbirds, dryads come in seaweed and original recipe and trapdoor-dridders are showing up, it strikes me as rather irksome that nagas - the single most overused species in Felarya - have absolutely nothing to set them apart.
.

Well they are fast, have amazing reflexes, keen senses and are very agile with their tail for climbing and so. This seems quite snake-like to me Razz

Having said that I am open to any suggestions to flesh them out ^_^

GREGOLE · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:19 pm

Quote:

For the unhinging jaw issue...
Quote from unmuseum.org
"Although it is often said a snake's jaw can be unhinged from the skull to allow something much larger than the snake's mouth to be swallowed, the jaws are actually connected by a ligament that stretches."
So snakes cannot unhinge their jaws. Therefore why should nagas?

That is the single most pointlessly irrelevant thing I have ever heard brought up in a discussion.

Ok mister technical, have it your way.
Why aren't more nagas seen stretching the tissue that links their jaws in order to accommodate prey that is larger than the span of a human mouth of similar size?

EDIT: Actually, looking back on it, that IS unhinging. Which makes that statement even more pointless.

Quote:

Well they are fast, have amazing reflexes, keen senses and are very agile with their tail for climbing and so. This seems quite snake-like to me Razz
Having said that I am open to any suggestions to flesh them out ^_^

Snakes are reptiles. They aren't known for being fast. They have quick bursts of speed, but very few species are capable of great speed for extended periods.

It's also problematic that all these traits are found in ALL Felaryan predators.
There's really no denying that nagas have become nothing more than legless giantesses. And I for one, shudder at that thought.

There's an infinite number of things to be done. Depict more nagas swallowing things larger than their heads, for one. Introduce some viper-based species with heat-sensory organs under their eyes. Give them forked tongues. Have more of them willing to eat other nagas. Introduce more specialized species.

One of the biggest problems with the downplaying of the snake is that, in my opinion, asinine element thing. It does absolutely nothing but further shroud the fact that nagas are part snake. They're slithering, magical giants, not snake-people.

Almost every naga character out there has magical abilities which they have absolutely no need for, that offer absolutely nothing in terms of story, and only serve to make the character cluttered and uninteresting.

I love Rin as much as the next guy, but am I the only one who groans at the idea of "ice nagas"?

Other chimera species are modeled after real animals. They occupy ecological niches based on that animal.

But an ice naga? That not only breaks the rules of biology, but goes out of its way to shit on them.

Snakes are not elementally imbued creatures. The whole element thing would be much better suited to fairies. Hell, fairies have already more or less stolen the idea, what with all the countless species of half-elementals running around.

I mean, if you're going to downplay the chimera nature of a chimera race, at least focus that downplay one ONE species. Everyone already hates the idea of acknowledging that fairies are part insect. Why can't all the magical garbage belong to them?

Quote:

Yes there is. Jissy. She acknowledges that most other nagas don't do that, though.

Which does more to further the problem than it does to solve it.

Nagas, being part snake, should be more likely to eat their own kind than any other vertebrate chimera, being that snakes are one of the most cannibalistic vertebrate species alive.

Refusing to eat one's kin should be the exception for nagas, not the norm.

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gwadahunter2222 · Hero Posts: 1381 Join date: 2007-12-08 Age: 26

In clear an application of what you read in a biological book.

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Malahite · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:40 pm

Hm, looking on the wiki I notice a distinct lack of Spitting-Cobra Nagas. Perhaps use those for the mainly-cannibalistic type? Reduces the use of magic, increases the number of non-insect venomous creatures, allows them to still be effective human-hunters before becoming adults, etc.

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rcs619 · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:57 pm

Malahite wrote:

Hm, looking on the wiki I notice a distinct lack of Spitting-Cobra Nagas. Perhaps use those for the mainly-cannibalistic type? Reduces the use of magic, increases the number of non-insect venomous creatures, allows them to still be effective human-hunters before becoming adults, etc.

http://rcs619.deviantart.com/art/My-Girls-colored-103364693
*points at the redhead on the far right*

She's a spitting cobra naga, based on the red spitting cobra http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/partypictures/2006/07_07_06/images/nathistory/159-Red-Spitting-Cobra.RM.jpg.
Also, the main cannibalistic cobra is the King Cobra. Spitting cobras tend to be smaller and primarily feed on lizards, frogs and such. If we are going to look into cannibal nagas....we should consider basing them on King Snakes, since they eat other snakes anyway.

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Asuroth · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:23 am

I believe Zoekin was creating a character based on king snake actually and makes an appearance in this story:

http://zoekin.deviantart.com/art/The-Predator-112493626

Though she comes from Londore I believe Felarya could also have some of its own King Nagas, why not as almost every predator has a predator of its own as well. These could be prime candidates to instill more snake qualities as mentioned tuned to hunt other Nagas if the current ones are lacking in that area- a spot the predator takes advantage of with superior senses dedicated to hunting other Nagas if you will.

Karbo · Evil admin Posts: 1658 Join date: 2007-12-08

Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

Heck why not ? Felarya is a fantasy world.

Moreover, Gregole, could you please make your points without being systematically agressive and contemptuous ? Neutral

Really it would help the exchange a great deal... and it would definitely make your point much more convincing than just simply bashing what you don't like...

Reptillian · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:18 pm

Karbo wrote:

Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

Heck why not ? Felarya is a fantasy world.

AGREED, it being fantasy means that everything doesn't need to be "logical"^^

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GREGOLE · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:59 pm

Quote:

AGREED, it being fantasy means that everything doesn't need to be "logical"^^

Quote:

Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

That would be a perfectly acceptable answer is this were a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

But Felarya does follow a scientific logic. I defy you to name something non-naga related that isn't modeled after a real world phenomenon.
Thinking of pseudo-scientific ways for elements of Felarya to behave has kindof become the entire point of the ideas discussion board.

But ice nagas? That just feels totally out of place. It makes no sense, it has yet to have any real bearing on the plot of those stories that include ice nagas, and it undoubtedly had a hand in shaping the public image of a naga from a snake person to a slithering giant elf.

A tremendous amount of work is being put in by all of us to help build Felarya into a solid, three-dimensional world. Not everything needs to be scientifically feasible, but we have pseudo-scientific explanations for magic. Don't you dare tell me that Felarya isn't logical. Unrealistic? Sure. Without logic? Hell no!
And unfortunately, ice-nagas are entirely illogical.

I mean, it's real simple. If you're going to ignore basically everything about the animal your character is composed partially of - hates the cold. Can't move very well on snow or ice. Relies on sensing vibrations through the ground that ice and snow would do a poor job of conducting - then why bother even making them part snake?

Quote:

Moreover, Gregole, could you please make your points without being systematically agressive and contemptuous ? Neutral
Really it would help the exchange a great deal... and it would definitely make your point much more convincing than just simply bashing what you don't like...

First of all, in my experience, no one ever listens to me unless I'm really loud and sarcastic. The same is true for a lot of people, actually.

Secondly, I think I was being very civil and polite given the material I had to work with, thankyou very much.

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French snack · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:16 pm

By the way... Another naga who eats nagas.

GREGOLE · Subject: Re: Downplaying the snake Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:20 pm

Angela isn't Felaryan. Doesn't count.

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