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Karbo
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:58 am

Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

Heck why not ? Felarya is a fantasy world.

Moreover, Gregole, could you please make your points without being systematically agressive and contemptuous ? Neutral
Really it would help the exchange a great deal... and it would definitely make your point much more convincing than just simply bashing what you don't like...
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:18 am

Karbo wrote:
Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

Heck why not ? Felarya is a fantasy world.

AGREED, it being fantasy means that everything doesn't need to be "logical"^^
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:59 am

Quote :

AGREED, it being fantasy means that everything doesn't need to be "logical"^^

Quote :
Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

That would be a perfectly acceptable answer is this were a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

But Felarya does follow a scientific logic. I defy you to name something non-naga related that isn't modeled after a real world phenomenon.
Thinking of pseudo-scientific ways for elements of Felarya to behave has kindof become the entire point of the ideas discussion board.

But ice nagas? That just feels totally out of place. It makes no sense, it has yet to have any real bearing on the plot of those stories that include ice nagas, and it undoubtedly had a hand in shaping the public image of a naga from a snake person to a slithering giant elf.

A tremendous amount of work is being put in by all of us to help build Felarya into a solid, three-dimensional world. Not everything needs to be scientifically feasible, but we have pseudo-scientific explanations for magic. Don't you dare tell me that Felarya isn't logical. Unrealistic? Sure. Without logic? Hell no!
And unfortunately, ice-nagas are entirely illogical.

I mean, it's real simple. If you're going to ignore basically everything about the animal your character is composed partially of - hates the cold. Can't move very well on snow or ice. Relies on sensing vibrations through the ground that ice and snow would do a poor job of conducting - then why bother even making them part snake?


Quote :
Moreover, Gregole, could you please make your points without being systematically agressive and contemptuous ? Neutral
Really it would help the exchange a great deal... and it would definitely make your point much more convincing than just simply bashing what you don't like...

First of all, in my experience, no one ever listens to me unless I'm really loud and sarcastic. The same is true for a lot of people, actually.

Secondly, I think I was being very civil and polite given the material I had to work with, thankyou very much.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:16 am

By the way... Another naga who eats nagas.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:20 am

Angela isn't Felaryan. Doesn't count.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:25 am

Well, if Karbo has set up the elemental power system, it seems that ice nagas, for whatever reason, at least deserve to exist. For whatever reason, naga's have become sort of the "basic" predator on Felarya. Probably because they were the first. This was Karbo's decision for the world in it's basic stages.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:36 am

When I first designed "little" Katrika all that time ago-I tried very hard to make her "snakey". I gave her the tail pattern of a commen snake found across much of Europe (although she has MALE colouration-Quetzal help me if she ever finds out)-a strong muscular tail for constricting and I placed her tail in her stomach. (Thanks Tifalover) and later on I added venom to Katrika's arsenal and allowed her to spray it. What you may not know is that like some snakes-Katrika only has one lung-which runs much the length of her whole tail. This means she can hold her breath a VERY long time! As Anna discovered the first time Kat "French Kissed" her.

*ahem*

ANYWAY-I agree that there is more to add a few interesting features to nagas. We haven't seen a "Flying" Naga type yet or a "Heavy" bodied viper.

As for the elements........well, one of the things I love about Felarya is it's a magical place and fantastic things happen.

I choose not to nitpick and just love the place.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:44 am

My main problem with the elemental magic thing is that nowadays, people are using it as a racial divider and not a matter of the individual.

I mean if it were just nagas, THEN the elemental magic being a matter of the individual's genetics, then there wouldn't be a problem.

But people don't do that. Most nagas nowadays are elemental creatures first and nagas second. What are these? Dragons?
It defies the logic behind Felarya. It feels out of place.

All I ask is that people put SOME thought into the fact that nagas are part snake. SOMETHING to keep people from forgetting that these are snake people and not slithering elves.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:47 am

Zoekin wrote:
I placed her tail in her stomach.

i always kinda thought nagas would have two stomachs. one for small prey and one for larger prey(other nagas for instance) but yeah that's just my thougths. of course the same goes for other internal organs. Some for the human part and other for the snake part.

the later would go for all hybrid-species.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:59 am

GREGOLE wrote:
My main problem with the elemental magic thing is that nowadays, people are using it as a racial divider and not a matter of the individual.

I mean if it were just nagas, THEN the elemental magic being a matter of the individual's genetics, then there wouldn't be a problem.

But people don't do that. Most nagas nowadays are elemental creatures first and nagas second. What are these? Dragons?
It defies the logic behind Felarya. It feels out of place.

All I ask is that people put SOME thought into the fact that nagas are part snake. SOMETHING to keep people from forgetting that these are snake people and not slithering elves.

Yeah-the elements are a little tricky. But I just tell myself naga (and lamia *nods to Flare* ) are magical beings. TIt doesn't really bother me. Although I have to agree with your earlier comments about the sterotyping some nagas have received due to their element. As for Ice nagas-I love them. I even took it further with little Crystal and made her a Polar Naga. Yeah-I know an ice-loving reptile doesn't make a lot of sense but I really don't let it get to me. She's a magical being and magic is AWESOME!
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:02 am

Reptillian wrote:
Zoekin wrote:
I placed her tail in her stomach.

i always kinda thought nagas would have two stomachs. one for small prey and one for larger prey(other nagas for instance) but yeah that's just my thougths. of course the same goes for other internal organs. Some for the human part and other for the snake part.

the later would go for all hybrid-species.

Thats my theory on most FELARYAN nagas. Keep in mind, Kat isnt from Felarya, she's from the world of Londore, and would have a different anatomy.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:07 am

rcs619 wrote:
Reptillian wrote:
Zoekin wrote:
I placed her tail in her stomach.

i always kinda thought nagas would have two stomachs. one for small prey and one for larger prey(other nagas for instance) but yeah that's just my thougths. of course the same goes for other internal organs. Some for the human part and other for the snake part.

the later would go for all hybrid-species.

Thats my theory on most FELARYAN nagas. Keep in mind, Kat isnt from Felarya, she's from the world of Londore, and would have a different anatomy.
good point there, that's my bad...but wait, wasn't kat the one that reconstructed herself from just a soul or something? or am i thinking of someone else???

Zoekin wrote:
Yeah-the elements are a little tricky. But I just tell myself naga (and lamia *nods to Flare* ) are magical beings. TIt doesn't really bother me. Although I have to agree with your earlier comments about the sterotyping some nagas have received due to their element. As for Ice nagas-I love them. I even took it further with little Crystal and made her a Polar Naga. Yeah-I know an ice-loving reptile doesn't make a lot of sense but I really don't let it get to me. She's a magical being and magic is AWESOME!
actually i have a pet lizard and he/she likes to play in the snow T_T'
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:13 am

GREGOLE wrote:

My main problem with the elemental magic thing is that nowadays, people are using it as a racial divider and not a matter of the individual.

I mean if it were just nagas, THEN the elemental magic being a matter of the individual's genetics, then there wouldn't be a problem.

But people don't do that. Most nagas nowadays are elemental creatures first and nagas second. What are these? Dragons?
It defies the logic behind Felarya. It feels out of place.

All I ask is that people put SOME thought into the fact that nagas are part snake. SOMETHING to keep people from forgetting that these are snake people and not slithering elves.

If you have just said that since the beginning and we will have a better understanding of your thoughts.

As I noticed when I read your different rants on your page, it confirms everything I have always thought about you, your problem is not the concept but people's reactions. Each time you see someone says something you consider as absurd or stupid. You think you have the obligation to correct it or to show it to the face of the world.

An advice you should stop that or you will die from stress.

Look at the wiki and look the different subspecies of naga, I mean the official ones. We have a three head specie, and another one recover with diamond and canr turn itself into a pure diamond. We have another one which each ghost, elementals and people souls and a blue blood wich make you can take the damage it take if you are infected. And last we are going to implement a race of medusa a type of naga with snakes ears.

Does Karbo use the elementals system as a racial divider?
No.

I will conclude by saying this thing you won't eradicate the stupidity of the human being. To be honest you are disappointed me because you are intelligent but you spend all your energy on trying on absurdities and in the end it's you who are ridiculous not the people you try to denounce.

If they give one dollar each time I see something stupid I think will the man wealthiest man of the world.

When you say you hate dragons, wolves etc... It's not them you hate but people reaction. You should stop to think on that and do what you want to do. Don't waste your time with that.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:39 am

Quote :
If you have just said that since the beginning and we will have a better understanding of your thoughts.

As I noticed when I read your different rants on your page, it confirms everything I have always thought about you, your problem is not the concept but people's reactions. Each time you see someone says something you consider as absurd or stupid. You think you have the obligation to correct it or to show it to the face of the world.

An advice you should stop that or you will die from stress.

Look at the wiki and look the different subspecies of naga, I mean the official ones. We have a three head specie, and another one recover with diamond and canr turn itself into a pure diamond. We have another one which each ghost, elementals and people souls and a blue blood wich make you can take the damage it take if you are infected. And last we are going to implement a race of medusa a type of naga with snakes ears.

Does Karbo use the elementals system as a racial divider?
No.

I will conclude by saying this thing you won't eradicate the stupidity of the human being. To be honest you are disappointed me because you are intelligent but you spend all your energy on trying on absurdities and in the end it's you who are ridiculous not the people you try to denounce.

If they give one dollar each time I see something stupid I think will the man wealthiest man of the world.

When you say you hate dragons, wolves etc... It's not them you hate but people reaction. You should stop to think on that and do what you want to do. Don't waste your time with that.

You're probably right - assuming I read that right.

But I see a legitimate problem here, and I at least want to make an effort to solve it.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:01 pm

GREGOLE wrote:

You're probably right - assuming I read that right.

But I see a legitimate problem here, and I at least want to make an effort to solve it.

It's true it's a problem people use naga only the basic type of the naga, I never see people tries develop a hydranga or a pit naga, for the diamond there are at least a picture or a story.

I try to understand why people act like that and I notice many point:
1- people doesn't really read the wiki, or search if someone did not has the same idea.
2- people tend to exaggerate and give properties it has never been said by Karbo or write in the wiki
3- people always keep using always Crisis and Anna, Vivian,Melany, Anko a times Drayla and Temi but it's always to heal someone who is injured. But not Subeta (before the manga), Aya, Alvar.
5- Few races and species are not used.
etc...

In general all this problem are due to a misunderstanding or misinterpret of the nature of Felarya, it's a world which have its own identity and some situation are uncommon so people has difficulty to understand they try to make a story or an artwork with what they understand. Even if it's always the same thing I can't blame for that because they are few artworks about the other races draw by Karbo himself. It's true you make an effort to draw other race and try to be original. But I think until Karbo doesn't do an illustration about the different specie or illustration of the different background.

It's true you're right to make an effort but how you do it's problematic sometimes. You try to create an electroshock in people mind it will work in some case but not all the times. In your words I feel sometime directly attack because I create an elf character. I did it not because I'm fan of the lord ring or a stupid elf fanboy or something like that. I did just for the fun and the fact Karbo create different race and I find it very interested in what I wanted a voracious characters with a full belly like Menyssan but I didn't want it was necessary a succubus and the idea of the dance to lure your prey had a great potential. I like Faoran I want to flesh my character in a different and uncommon way but when I read reactions on many people on this forum about elf I have the feeling she will be bashing or just I will be considered as a fucking retarded just because I did an elf characters.

It's true naga it's overused, I try sometime to suggest people to try a different race sometimes it doesn't work all the times, but I least I tried.

What you want to it's a major change and unfortunately you are not in position to do that, the only guy who can do it's Karbo himself.

What I understand, you want a better clarification or explanation about the "predator sense" (It has been done), the elemental affinities do it have an influence on the fact on the cold-blood nature of their snake part, and precise nagas use mainly their snake part to survive in Felarya, like thermal detection and vibration sensitivity, some are venomous, other have a forked tongues or a snake eyes and they can preyed their own specie if they feel the need.

PS: you don't have to be sarcastic or incisive in your sentence, because when you post something on internet the understanding of what you say will depend mostly of the state of behaviour of the people when he will read that. If he/she is a good mood or know you it will be ok, but he/she is not good mood due to problem in real life it won't pass. You don't have the person in front you so you can tell how he was when he read your comment.

Sorry to be so long but I want to make it clear.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:05 pm

Quote :
PS: you don't have to be sarcastic or incisive in your sentence, because when you post something on internet the understanding of what you say will depend mostly of the state of behaviour of the people when he will read that. If he/she is a good mood or know you it will be ok, but he/she is not good mood due to problem in real life it won't pass. You don't have the person in front you so you can tell how he was when he read your comment.

I'm gonna be sarcastic, dude. I have absolutely no intention of toning down the sarcasm, nor the snark, nor the passion, nor the mild bigotry. It's who I am. If anyone doesn't like that, no one's making them talk to me.

As for the rest of what you said, I'm going to assume I agree with you based on what I caught while skimming. 90% of everything is crap, and people are going to ignore the snake thing.

BUT, past experience has shown that raising awareness of a problem does indeed help. Which is exactly what I did.
Whether or not it helps remains to be seen, but at least I had the initiative to try.
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:37 pm

GREGOLE wrote:
90% of everything is crap
This is the great verity about internet.

GREGOLE wrote:

BUT, past experience has shown that raising awareness of a problem does indeed help. Which is exactly what I did.
Whether or not it helps remains to be seen, but at least I had the initiative to try.
To be honest it's one of the things I appreciate with you Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:04 pm

I'm sorry I have to do this after Hunter has been trying to get you calmed down, but...
*Leg sweeps Gregole's broken Pedestal out from under him and pins him with a leg smash in one smooth move. Because THIS IS IMAGINATION LAND CREATOR FRACK IT!!!*
GREGOLE wrote:
Quote :

AGREED, it being fantasy means that everything doesn't need to be "logical"^^

Quote :
Well I personnaly don't feel that everything should be explained through science and logic in Felarya.
Sure a species of nagas could have more distinct snake-like features and possess forked tongues for example, but Rin as an ice-naga is also perfectly fine with me.
As well as having some sub-species of nagas based on elements even if, yes this goes against biology rules on earth.

That would be a perfectly acceptable answer is this were a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

But Felarya does follow a scientific logic. I defy you to name something non-naga related that isn't modeled after a real world phenomenon.
Thinking of pseudo-scientific ways for elements of Felarya to behave has kindof become the entire point of the ideas discussion board.

But ice nagas? That just feels totally out of place. It makes no sense, it has yet to have any real bearing on the plot of those stories that include ice nagas, and it undoubtedly had a hand in shaping the public image of a naga from a snake person to a slithering giant elf.

A tremendous amount of work is being put in by all of us to help build Felarya into a solid, three-dimensional world. Not everything needs to be scientifically feasible, but we have pseudo-scientific explanations for magic. Don't you dare tell me that Felarya isn't logical. Unrealistic? Sure. Without logic? Hell no!
And unfortunately, ice-nagas are entirely illogical.

I mean, it's real simple. If you're going to ignore basically everything about the animal your character is composed partially of - hates the cold. Can't move very well on snow or ice. Relies on sensing vibrations through the ground that ice and snow would do a poor job of conducting - then why bother even making them part snake?
Again, I am sorry, but...
You.
Are.
WRONG!!!
You can NOT go around baking at peoples lack of Science in a Fantasy Realm built upon Vore Fetishism.
I am trying to obtain my Geo-science Major so I can HOPEFULLY become a Paleontologist some day
While I may not have any real training in the area, I can tell you that not even "Pseudoscience" can be used to explain most, if not ALL, of Felaryain Biology.
Especially Naga!!!
Even excluding the fact you have to throw out a certain something called the Square-Cubed Law, there are many, MANY things scientifically wrong with the Naga race.
For one, they are NOT Cold Blooded Animals.
They can't be, and I'm not using the flimsy arguments like hair or Mammillary glans here.
It's their growth rate.
From what I have seen, Felaryan Naga can go from 600 lbs and 6 ft tall... to what I can assume is 300 short tons and 60 ft tall... in UNDER A YEAR!!!
A Cold Blooded Reptile can NOT do that from what I understand.
Frack, even if Brachiosaurus was Warm Blooded, it would have still taken 10 years to reach its' average LENGTH of 83 ft and weight of 35 short tons.
And this brings up another very obvious flaw in Naga design... their Metabolism.
A (Warm-Blooded mind you) Brachiosaurus would need to consume 400 lbs of biomass per day!!!
From what I've seen, a Felaryan Naga can sustain itself on 5 human beings or equivalent a day...
Now let's say an average human weighs 168 lbs... so a Naga needs around 840 lbs of Biomass per day.
Sounds reasonable at first, what with protein and fats being a far better source of calories and all...
But a Brachiosaurus eats 400 lbs and is 83 ft TOTAL in length, where as a Felaryan Naga such as Vivian STANDS 85 ft tall and is several times that in total body length.
Plus, a Naga is easily has an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE on a Brachiosaurus in body mass!!!
And the FOOD!!!
Brachiosaurus was a herbivore, where as Naga are predators.
One doesn't need to expend energy to hunt, where as the other goes out of its' way to obtain prey that is several orders of magnitude smaller then themselves.
If you can not see what's wrong with that picture, think of it this way:
Wolves do not eat mice and they certainly don't eat sparrows.
The reason they don't is because they would burn off more calories trying to catch this prey then what would be obtained eating them.
A NET LOSS of energy, compared to the net gain that could be obtained by eating something closer to their own size.
And on top of that, Naga are as intelligent (If not more so) then a human being, meaning they'd need EVEN MORE calories to fuel those big beautiful brains of theirs!
Here is something you can try at home to see my point:
Go buy a case of live mice, release them all over a large area, and try to survive by only eating 5 of them per day.
Now imagine doing that while being 11 ft tube of almost pure muscle from the waist down.
That is what it would be like to be a Giant Naga.
And you would be DEAD after two weeks from starvation.
Going by any thing that can be remotely called Logic, all Giant Naga in Felarya would have to be:
-A LOT slower growing
-A LOT closer in ratio of size to what it ate
-A LOT Dumber
Putting that together... we'd get something analogous to a giant snake with arms... yeah, REAL SEXY right there.

Now you may wonder how I, as a Man of Science, can tolerate Giant Naga better then GREGOLE.
The Answer is simple, I know Naga...
RUN
ON
MAGIC!!!
Frack, it's why I think it would be easy to explain that Naga digestion doesn't actually DIGEST you.
If Naga digestion used some sort of portal that gives off large amounts of energy when something Sentient goes through, then it would be far more Bioenergetically favorable.


(P.S. If you think Gigantothermy is a suitable counter to the Endothermic argument, you are still wrong. Giant Naga would STILL have the same Metabolic needs as an Endotherm their size, and might actually OVERHEAT in the jungle due to their rather bulky body style and large areas of skin lacking sweat glans.)
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:10 pm

First of all dude, stop trying to act smart. You're not. You're annoying.

Second of all, I was the first one to bring up the size issue. But that doesn't change the fact that Felarya is a very logical world. Unrealistic, sure, but nothing if not logical.

I am not wrong. And if you can't see the obvious inherent logic behind Felarya, then you're an idiot. Period.

Now I could argue with you on this matter, but I've already made my points, and until someone who isn't going to act like a royal prick argues, I'm done.


Honestly, Karbo, you get after ME for being brutal?
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:13 pm

GREGOLE wrote:
First of all dude, stop trying to act smart. You're not. You're annoying.

Second of all, I was the first one to bring up the size issue. But that doesn't change the fact that Felarya is a very logical world. Unrealistic, sure, but nothing if not logical.

I am not wrong. And if you can't see the obvious inherent logic behind Felarya, then you're an idiot. Period.

Now I could argue with you on this matter, but I've already made my points, and until someone who isn't going to act like a royal prick argues, I'm done.


Honestly, Karbo, you get after ME for being brutal?
I'm sorry, but there IS no logic behind Feraya the Ecosystem...
There IS logic behind Feraya the Sexual Fetish Fantasy Land... but that doesn't mean people will start making Snakeyer Naga unless they are into that sort of thing.
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Asuroth
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:13 pm

The Felaryan world does follow logic, though it's very fantasy based a lot of thought is put into the various species to try to make it more interesting- things would get pretty boring if everything just ran on magic purely. Many of the species particular niches are not just to eat humans to satisfy the vore fantasy here, its a world where things are uncertain and the many kinds of species interact een preying on each other through a logical order of predator and prey. That probably was not worded the best way but the point stands that the creatures designed here try to follow some logic in that they inherit traits of the species they were based on for the most part with other features added to blend into the world more- Felarya is a crazy place so crazy adaptions come into play.

Anyways I apologize for even further detracting from this thread and move to get back on topic, that being said I am fully in favor of more Nagas having more distinct snake like features. One idea that comes to mind is a Naga whose style is heavily focused on the snake portion and reflects this: key points being it retains more of the snake senses mentioned far earlier in this thread but as a trade off loses a lot if not all of its magic abilities that are very present in the current nagas. Reasoning behind this kind of naga would be as the Predator Sense seems to be based on the levels of magic within a creature, these kinds of naga lack a focus in magic to hide from the predator sense to a degree to hunt more equal sized prey. Another idea just to toss in the air is of some Naga species to appear even more snake like- instead of a giantess upper body it could be scaled still for instance and hell for a step further maybe even a serpentine head, a kind of breed in between giant snakes themselves and the Nagas we know.

That's it for my two cents for now, if possible I'd prefer to keep this as flame free as can be. Each side has brought up very valid points with Felarya being fantasy based and having a great deal of mystery and danger to it along with very logically inspired predators and creatures to add some realism to this world and make it more entertaining. Mixing these two things up can result in some pretty damn cool ideas.
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rcs619
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:20 pm

Quote :
Whiteagle:
I'm sorry I have to do this after Hunter has been trying to get you calmed down, but...
*Leg sweeps Gregole's broken Pedestal out from under him and pins him with a leg smash in one smooth move. Because THIS IS IMAGINATION LAND CREATOR FRACK IT!!!*

Okay, first of all, if you want to be taken seriously THIS is not how you start off a response. Second of all, have some damn respect for an elder member of the community. Gregole has been around a good while and has done a LOT for this community. You wouldnt act like such a child to Karbo or Zoekin, would you?

Quote :
Whiteagle:
You can NOT go around baking at peoples lack of Science in a Fantasy Realm built upon Vore Fetishism.
I am trying to obtain my Geo-science Major so I can HOPEFULLY become a Paleontologist some day
While I may not have any real training in the area, I can tell you that not even "Pseudoscience" can be used to explain most, if not ALL, of Felaryain Biology.

Well, im a senior in college going for my biological science major myself, so I like to think I know a bit about the natural world too. Actually, most of Felaryan wildlife is based on real animals in some way or another, and most of us do try to think up legitimate reasons for how and why things work. We want Felarya to be a natural, "real" world...not some place you just plop things into and say "well...I dont know how this works, but it does". Everything from the nature of Felarya's dimensional plane, to how Dryads work has been discussed at some point. Karbo has a great intrest in flushing these ideas out, even if he hasnt added them to the wiki yet, and he has encouraged the discussion of them...hence the reason for an IDEAS FORUM.

Quote :
Especially Naga!!!
Even excluding the fact you have to throw out a certain something called the Square-Cubed Law,

Its been established that the square-cubed law doesnt apply because of the extra-dimensional nature of Felarya. We didnt just "throw it out" we made up a decent sounding reason for it not being a factor in things.

Quote :
things scientifically wrong with the Naga race.
For one, they are NOT Cold Blooded Animals.

Its not just nagas. Mermaids and the arthropod hybrids should be cold-blooded as well, since fish and insects and such, are not warm-blooded in real life. A creature that big cant be cold-blooded and function well. Odds are, they're warm-blooded since their heart and the main portion of their circulatory system resides in their human half, which probably influences how it works. They arent the first giant, warm-blooded reptiles, its generally accepted that dinosaurs were warm-blooded.

Quote :
It's their growth rate.
From what I have seen, Felaryan Naga can go from 600 lbs and 6 ft tall... to what I can assume is 300 short tons and 60 ft tall... in UNDER A YEAR!!!

Actually, nagas take a long time to grow. Look at Crisis, she's 60 years old and is only the equivalent of 19 years old. Since most people age to about 26 or so before the healing properties of Felarya prevent any further aging, Crisis may still have a slight bit of growing left to do, actually. And a full-sized naga would be well over 600 tons ^^

Quote :
Frack, even if Brachiosaurus was Warm Blooded, it would have still taken 10 years to reach its' average LENGTH of 83 ft and weight of 35 short tons.

LOOK at the ages of the characters in the wiki. They're OLD. many of them border of a 100 years or so. They dont grow up quickly. They take much longer to reach maturity than humans. ....and for the record, its generally accepted that Dinosaurs WERE warm-blooded.

Quote :
And this brings up another very obvious flaw in Naga design... their Metabolism.
A (Warm-Blooded mind you) Brachiosaurus would need to consume 400 lbs of biomass per day!!!
From what I've seen, a Felaryan Naga can sustain itself on 5 human beings or equivalent a day...
Now let's say an average human weighs 168 lbs... so a Naga needs around 840 lbs of Biomass per day.
Sounds reasonable at first, what with protein and fats being a far better source of calories and all...
But a Brachiosaurus eats 400 lbs and is 83 ft TOTAL in length, where as a Felaryan Naga such as Vivian STANDS 85 ft tall and is several times that in total body length.
Plus, a Naga is easily has an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE on a Brachiosaurus in body mass!!!
And the FOOD!!!
Brachiosaurus was a herbivore, where as Naga are predators.
One doesn't need to expend energy to hunt, where as the other goes out of its' way to obtain prey that is several orders of magnitude smaller then themselves.
If you can not see what's wrong with that picture, think of it this way:
Wolves do not eat mice and they certainly don't eat sparrows.
The reason they don't is because they would burn off more calories trying to catch this prey then what would be obtained eating them.

Actually, the 5 human thing is an absolute minimum to survive. There is a difference between surviving...and being full and happy. I imagine even that would lead to them losing weight. Most nagas, and predators in general eat a lot more food than the minimum and they eat a lot more than humans. Small animals, fruit, fish...its all on the predator's diet. ...and dammit, Dinosaurs ARE warm-blooded! lol

Quote :
A NET LOSS of energy, compared to the net gain that could be obtained by eating something closer to their own size.
And on top of that, Naga are as intelligent (If not more so) then a human being, meaning they'd need EVEN MORE calories to fuel those big beautiful brains of theirs!
Here is something you can try at home to see my point:
Go buy a case of live mice, release them all over a large area, and try to survive by only eating 5 of them per day.
Now imagine doing that while being 11 ft tube of almost pure muscle from the waist down.
That is what it would be like to be a Giant Naga.
And you would be DEAD after two weeks from starvation.

Technically, you'd die of dehydration long before those two weeks pass.

Quote :
Going by any thing that can be remotely called Logic, all Giant Naga in Felarya would have to be:
-A LOT slower growing
-A LOT closer in ratio of size to what it ate
-A LOT Dumber
Putting that together... we'd get something analogous to a giant snake with arms... yeah, REAL SEXY right there.

- Nagas take DECADES longer than humans to reach maturity. Crisis is 60, she's the equivalent of 19. Do the math.
- Most nagas CAN eat larger things, they just choose not to, due to the abundance of small prey.
- Umm....intelligence is not a factor in size and metabolism. Look at all the adventurers that get eaten. They're fucking morons.

Okay, to be fair...Gregole probably would still think that version of a naga was still sexy =P

Quote :
Now you may wonder how I, as a Man of Science, can tolerate Giant Naga better then GREGOLE.
The Answer is simple, I know Naga...
RUN
ON
MAGIC!!!

Okay...first of all. You want to be a paleontologist, and you apparently dont know that dinosaurs were warm-blooded. Hell, I learned that from watching Jurassic Park. Im starting to seriously doubt the whole...man of science thing.

...and....no...nagas dont run on magic. That is the exact kind of logic we avoid in Felarya. Sure, we all know that Felarya is a magic rich environment, but that magic is an integral part of the ecosystem. It sustains nature, it doesn't replace it.

Just because you could say "Magic did it" doesnt mean that you should. That is just lazy, uncaring writing.

Quote :
Frack, it's why I think it would be easy to explain that Naga digestion doesn't actually DIGEST you.
If Naga digestion used some sort of portal that gives off large amounts of energy when something Sentient goes through, then it would be far more Bioenergetically favorable.

Umm...no...just....NO. When you are eaten, you are digested. You go down the esophagus, and into the stomach where you are broken down by large quantities of hydrochloric acid and digetive enzymes. People DIE in Felarya, deal with it. Part of the charm of Felarya is the danger and tension. Not only does your little thoery make no sense, it completely ignores the basic principles of Felarya. You get eaten...you die. That is jsut how it is.

Sooooooooo...in closing, thank you for giving me a reason to rant and pick something apart. Even I like a good rant every once in a while ^^. My advice to you, whiteagle is to...
ONE: Read the wiki
TWO: Respect elder community members
THREE: Dont post a wall of text and claim to be a man of science when you dont know what you're talking about.
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Jętte_Troll
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:39 pm

Yeah...learn to listen to the big folk here. They made this land. You can't just walk in and start telling them how it is. We also like respect here. The last punk kid to annoy us...remember cookeaw? Do you know where he is now?

See that pile of naga droppings....?
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Whiteagle
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:54 pm

rcs619 wrote:
*Snip*
All very good points rcs619.
A big flaw in my arguments were the fact that I was going off information from Wikis.
Both Wikipedia AND the Felarya wiki I'm afraid...
Sauropoda isn't really my fortay (I prefer Theropoda Predators myself, BECAUSE REX WANTS TO HUNT!!!! Ok... he'd rather be fed... BUT HE COULD HUNT!!!), but I needed a Real World animal NEAR a Giant Naga's weight class.
And really... the Felarya Wiki doesn't HAVE anything on the amount of food a Naga eats or how fast their maturation is.
The only real source I had on either of those were the Stories of Rin and Katrika, both of which make reference to a "Growth Cycle" that only seems to last a few months.
But this was not the real point I was trying to make.

The point I was trying to make is that this is a Fantasy World.
GREGOLE goes on and on about people "Forgetting" the "Animal" half of Felarya Predators, which is quite frankly a load of Minotaur...
People WILL make their Giant Naga the way they want to make their Giant Naga.
Or Dridder.
Or Ice Cow-taur with six Udder-Breasts on their Human Half which shoot out 24 different flavors of Ice Cream.

And yes, I know that last one wouldn't fit, but that doesn't mean someone won't try it!
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Flare
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PostSubject: Re: Downplaying the snake   Fri May 01, 2009 12:14 am

You know...if you're going to be a Geo-science Major, I'm pretty sure you can bring up more credable sources then wikis.
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