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xlrp
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PostSubject: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:33 am

I know it weird but it provides a basic foundation for what goes where and the who's who of hell. This is all about location. feel free to have fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:43 am

Ok, my friend I will answer you. It's not the first time someone tries to develop Hell, but Karbo prefers Hell is just a plane of existence people can access. It exists many version of Hell and Heaven, so the map you will do will be one hell among another.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:08 am

gwadahunter2222 wrote:
Ok, my friend I will answer you. It's not the first time someone tries to develop Hell, but Karbo prefers Hell is just a plane of existence people can access. It exists many version of Hell and Heaven, so the map you will do will be one hell among another.

I know. Even a plane of existence still going to have location. Example take kingdome hearts



I know it over used but its just a concept of organizing. But what I'm thinking of is way smaller. Plus you get to keep it as a plane of existence without.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:41 am

xlrp wrote:
I know it over used but its just a concept of organizing. But what I'm thinking of is way smaller. Plus you get to keep it as a plane of existence without.

The major problem with trying to map Hell is that we don't know if it corresponds to some object we are capable of mapping.

More precisely, what if Hell is a multidimensional object, with more than three dimensions?

We can map a 1-dimensional object using a number-line.
We can map a 2-dimensional object using a grid.
We can map a 3-dimensional object using a grid-cube.

But how do we map something like a tesseract? Those images in the article are just 2-d pictures of the 3-d "shadow" of the 4-d tesseract, just like how a sphere (3-d object) has a filled circle (2-d object) as it's shadow.



Still, it wouldn't be an impossible challenge. If you are willing to forgo physical accuracy you could still make a location based map, but it wouldn't be a map like you would normally think of a map being. Instead, it would be a list of locations and the places they connect to (and you still have a problem as to how you define "connected"). In other words, this mapping would create a graph.

For example, a graph created from a subsection of the Felarya map Karbo drew in 2006.

Location:
Giant Tree
Connected To:
Lataran Temple
Deluran Underground Base
Ascarlin Mountains
Neko Village
Crove of Carnivorous Plants
Fairy Pond
Ur-Sagol Ruins
Naga Warrior Tribe

Location:
Lataran Temple
Connected To:
Giant Tree
Deluran Underground Base
Fairy Kingdom
Forest Of Whispers
Waterfall
Evernight Jungle
Naga Warrior Tribe

Location:
Deluran Undergound Base
Connected To:
Giant Tree
Lataran Temple
Fairy Kingdom
Lake Of Illusions
...

And so on and so on. It would be a map, but it would also be quite messy.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:23 am

Oldman40k2003 wrote:
xlrp wrote:
I know it over used but its just a concept of organizing. But what I'm thinking of is way smaller. Plus you get to keep it as a plane of existence without.

The major problem with trying to map Hell is that we don't know if it corresponds to some object we are capable of mapping.

More precisely, what if Hell is a multidimensional object, with more than three dimensions?


What dose is say on the front page of the Wiki

Felarya is a strange and immense jungle world, situated at a crossroad between dimensions, making it dimensionally unstable. Lots of odd things happen there. For one, random worlds often connect themselves to Felarya for no apparent reason.

I'm simply playing on that. Were not going into all the extra stuff just a basic here a part. Just a focusing character placement same deal as the first map.

Oldman40k2003 wrote:

We can map a 1-dimensional object using a number-line.
We can map a 2-dimensional object using a grid.
We can map a 3-dimensional object using a grid-cube.

But how do we map something like a tesseract? Those images in the article are just 2-d pictures of the 3-d "shadow" of the 4-d tesseract, just like how a sphere (3-d object) has a filled circle (2-d object) as it's shadow.

Just like an advanced Wedding Cake. However that is only if you want to get into that. One again this a focused ground base. not a super dimensional math problem that would require a 12 week course in calculus that prepares you for a quantum physics or anything like that.


Oldman40k2003 wrote:

Still, it wouldn't be an impossible challenge. If you are willing to forgo physical accuracy you could still make a location based map, but it wouldn't be a map like you would normally think of a map being. Instead, it would be a list of locations and the places they connect to (and you still have a problem as to how you define "connected"). In other words, this mapping would create a graph.

I'm glad you agree and happy to have you on board. We start with the basic Host of hell where not going into any extra stuff. When in doubt keep it simple starting with Queen Faldhatée in Erebus or Queen Arsinoë in Acheron there kingdoms and who's there. Then Arale de Ceziela and where she is Iridan, then Menyssan. The cut off is 7 characters and some other location. Like ascarlin mines Chordoni river and we go from there once again there is cut off limit. We don't want all hell to break lose here.


Oldman40k2003 wrote:


For example, a graph created from a subsection of the Felarya map Karbo drew in 2006.

And so on and so on. It would be a map, but it would also be quite messy.

Like I said when in doubt keep it simple. Lets see what happens.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:20 pm

well in my opnion, rather than making a map of hell, the first step would be to imagine how hell is organized... is it in layers ? circles ? a single big plane ? I admit I have not digged the question very much yet ^^;

And this connection idea for locations is a nice one Smile Make me think about using a similar one in the wiki..
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:26 pm

I got the idea that this Hell is not like the one depicted in Christianity, but heres some food for thought:

In the novel, Dante's "Inferno", Hell has 7 levels, and lowest and deepest levels contain the most evil sinners and demon, including Satan himself.

Some also depicted this level as actually being FROZEN, and not the burning hot image were accustomed to.

Of course this is believe because it is the darkest and most evil place, and furthest away from Heaven.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:45 am

xlrp wrote:

What dose is say on the front page of the Wiki

Felarya is a strange and immense jungle world, situated at a crossroad between dimensions, making it dimensionally unstable....

I'm simply playing on that. Were not going into all the extra stuff just a basic here a part. Just a focusing character placement same deal as the first map.


Different meanings of the word “dimension” I think. Random dimensions (aka other universes) sometimes connect to Felarya. But what I mean is “a axis of measurement”, in particular an axis that is mutually orthogonal to the other axises of measurement.

xlrp wrote:

Just like an advanced Wedding Cake. However that is only if you want to get into that. One again this a focused ground base. not a super dimensional math problem that would require a 12 week course in calculus that prepares you for a quantum physics or anything like that.

I'd love to see a calculus course that tired to teach people how to do calculus in more than three dimensions... watching their heads explode would be fun! Smile

The “advanced wedding cake” method could work... but it will get more and more complicated the higher the number of dimensions there are, and it does have some problems, like how two points that are relatively close to each other in space will not appear to be all that close, because they end up on separate slices. That method also has problems when dealing with continuous structures, but since we care about the locations, and the locations can be roughly thought of as points, there wouldn't be that many problems.


xlrp wrote:

Oldman40k2003 wrote:

For example, a graph created from a subsection of the Felarya map Karbo drew in 2006.
And so on and so on. It would be a map, but it would also be quite messy.
Like I said when in doubt keep it simple. Lets see what happens.

Hey, the “locations and the places they connect to” method is not only simple, but infinitely expandable to any arbitrary number of dimensions! Razz


The entire point of my argument was that we might not be able to map Hell onto any sort of “map” we are used to seeing, because it could (in theory), be a multidimensional object that is beyond our comprehension. Multidimensionality also lends a very exotic and alien feeling to Hell, in my opinion. There could be things in Hell that have more than three dimensions to their form, and to our eyes such things would appear to do the impossible and morph in unsettling ways. Creatures might have the ability to choose what dimensions their form exists in, letting them “turn” perpendicular to our visible world, allowing them to appear and disappear from (seemingly) nowhere.


Having multiple dimensions also allows us to have our cake and eat it too... let me explain.

Suppose we want to have Hell have hot and cold variations of the same basic physical structures: a frozen ocean and a boiling one, for example. In a 3-d hell, we'd have to put those objects side by side, because oceans themselves are 3-d objects. But if we add a 4th dimension, hot-and-coldness, then we can have a single ocean be both... in fact, that single ocean can be an infinite number of oceans at various temperatures (I'm not sure how punishing a luke-warm ocean would be... that would probably be an empty hell. Smile ).

You don't have to keep the 3-d structure the same as you travel though the 4th dimension; maybe as it gets colder the ocean gets bigger and bigger, taking over land so that eventually Hell is just a bunch of frozen islands in a frozen sea.

If you also want there to be more orderly and less orderly sections of hell, you could solve it by adding yet more objects into hell (the number of combinations explodes quite rapidly though: a hot-orderly-ocean, a lukewarm-orderly-ocean, a cold-orderly-ocean, etc.), or you could just add another dimension: orderliness. Now you're up to a 5-d hell, but you get, for “free”, all combinations of temperature and order for your 3-d terrain.

If you wanted to, you could even take it one step further, and add a 6th dimension: goodness. That would allow you to place heaven, hell, and purgatory together, and would also give you, for “free”, all possible combinations of your 3-d terrain and temperature, order, and goodness (though unless you wanted heaven to be just like hell in form, you'd probably want to change that.)





Ranting (and raving) aside, Karbo says he hasn't really thought out Hell's physical structure, so maybe we should just make it something that we can visualize? Really cuts the heart out of my argument, but makes it easier to, you know, actually map. Smile

If we do it that way, then I suggest that Hell be a fully 3-d place. Floating islands, slabs of rock where gravity is sideways, insane, alien stuff like that. It's mappable but still looks nothing like anything else we've ever seen.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:58 am

Karbo wrote:
And this connection idea for locations is a nice one Smile Make me think about using a similar one in the wiki..


Good, I'm glad it seems like a good idea.



Begin nerd speak (I'm feeling very nerdish right now for some reason):
The connection idea for locations is based off of the neighbors of a Voronoi cell. Basically, create a cell that contains all the points that are closer to a particular location than they are to any other location. All the cells that touch this cell are considered to be locations that this particular location connects to. This method will work in any number of dimensions.
End nerd speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:01 am

A multi-dimensional hell sounds like the way to go to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:02 am

OK, organizing how Hell look. Well since most of us are working off of The Divine Comedy well use that as the base/directory for locations.







Now, its all a matter of how much we can screw around to get away from the mold. Since there are not laws that say places can't be added, removed, or even created. Do just that and most of all Remember to have fun.

I'll kick it off with the burning region of hell. Since we want to bring the heat for this. Well start with the Erebus Kingdom. As Felarya began with Crisis we start here with Menyssan. This would be the place most people know about. Ruthless heat in the mist of an endless Ocean of lava. (Since we have that much lets use it) The lava itself has a mind of its own. The tides can rise and fall to even split into various directions. However when it is some what of a good mood you can see the town of Thermopylae home to Menyssan.

And that it for me. Remember add and remove as you like. This is just getting organized and motion.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:11 pm

xlrp wrote:
OK, organizing how Hell look. Well since most of us are working off of The Divine Comedy well use that as the base/directory for locations.
We are?
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:45 pm

Anime-Junkie wrote:
xlrp wrote:
OK, organizing how Hell look. Well since most of us are working off of The Divine Comedy well use that as the base/directory for locations.
We are?

Unless you got something else and it is still welcome. Remember have fun and go all out.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:01 am

I think I might have been wrong on the seven levels thing, it might be just four.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:18 am

G-Man1989 wrote:
I think I might have been wrong on the seven levels thing, it might be just four.

I see where your going with that one. Good Idea. You have your four major regions. Like continents or something of that nature then you bust the rings up into sub area's like cities, towns in that region. Good ideal

Where the hell is Oldman40k2003 when you need him. He suppose to be doing the physics engine to the place.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:35 am

Let's just take all those hell layers / circles and organize them in a matter of TASTYNESS.

A vore hell wouldn't be structured on things such as sins and stuff, but more like: you taste better? You are sent lower, to feed more powerful demons...
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:44 am

Good point. Something like a nutrition pyramid send people according what demons need who.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:50 am

let's put down a general list of tastes wich could be appreciated in hell...

starting from the obvious and basic ones

sweet

salty

bittersweet

thai stuff

flavorless

crap
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:00 am

nksrocks wrote:
let's put down a general list of tastes wich could be appreciated in hell...

starting from the obvious and basic ones

sweet

salty

bittersweet

thai stuff

flavorless

crap

do you have compass for that location is the key.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:39 am

Another way to see it, guys... Hell could be simply "everywhere".

Ever seen Constantine?
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:40 am

nksrocks wrote:
Another way to see it, guys... Hell could be simply "everywhere".

Ever seen Constantine?

buts that's the lazy ass way of doing it
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:32 pm

haha funny idea XD
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:18 pm

or hell can be an alternate dimensional duplicate of felarya, but everything is more permanent, like being stuck inside a succubus for example. just a thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:50 pm

I saw earlier someone suggested someone would rank the levels of hell by taste of the people eaten.

How about this twist on it:

To Hellians (LOL), the more evil and gruesome sinners taste the best! So, only very evil people get eaten by some of the powerful and evil Hellians!
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PostSubject: Re: Mapping out Hell   Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:57 am

G-Man1989 wrote:
I saw earlier someone suggested someone would rank the levels of hell by taste of the people eaten.

How about this twist on it:

To Hellians (LOL), the more evil and gruesome sinners taste the best! So, only very evil people get eaten by some of the powerful and evil Hellians!

Going by nksrocks ranking system. It depends on what you do, that gets your flavor.

Looking back on the Constantine formant. and playing massive amounts of Disgaea adn Makai Kindom. It could work.
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