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 Who should I be sympathizing with again?

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codaman
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:00 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
If pigs were sentient, i'd most likely stop eating them. As of now, I dont feel that way because i'm surrounded by a culture that does so.

Wouldn't that fall under "monkey see monkey do?"

seriously though, right there is also a good point because you are surrounded byothers who don't show they don't much care for a pig, or just do what everyone around them does, kinda sounds familiar, but you see Anna, who in my eyes deserves some real sympathy for whats shes been through... she used to be human therefor won't eat humans, which her predator 'friends' try to convince her otherwise... but either way i don't see her shooting at them with a loaded stare of death for eating humans... often...

scratch im guessing the point is just do what you do, and let others do what they do too... hey, cool rhyme.. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:21 pm

Hmph. I've never been the type to let something I see as an injustice go on. Call me a hero or old-fashioned, but I think it's the duty of good men to stop injustice however they can.

If I have a problem with something, then damn the culture. I'll say I've got a problem with it. Anyone who knows me well can tell you I'm not the type to keep my mouth closed. If a belief is objective, I won't force it on people. But if I feel a real evil is being committed, then I'll knock a bitch out. Was real popular with the bullies in high school for that. ^^;

Anyways, I'd have to say that I don't approve eating humans. Espeically since we've established in another thread that it's not even for survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 am

ZionAtriedes wrote:
Anyways, I'd have to say that I don't approve eating humans. Espeically since we've established in another thread that it's not even for survival.
Same here. And I also find myself not approving of eating nekos or tinies...
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:26 pm

Raveolution wrote:
I also find myself not approving of eating nekos or tinies...

GTFO
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:50 pm

well i think we just said that because we cant think of a way for humans nekos and elves to be needed in a predator diet.

then again, we dont NEED to eat chicken for survival, and yet we do because it's healthy.

I'm tired of people discussing why preds eat humans nekos and elves. Otherwise I suggest we come up with a reason why they need to so people stop complaining about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:13 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
well i think we just said that because we cant think of a way for humans nekos and elves to be needed in a predator diet.

then again, we dont NEED to eat chicken for survival, and yet we do because it's healthy.
One of the reasons it's so hard to compare Predators eating Prey (Giant Harpy eating an Elf, Neko eating a Tiny, and so on) with us eating chicken is that chickens do not show the same degree of intelligence / sapience that humans do. To compare the two is grossly unfair, and leads to its own debates.
Archmage_Bael wrote:
I'm tired of people discussing why preds eat humans nekos and elves. Otherwise I suggest we come up with a reason why they need to so people stop complaining about it.
The reason it comes up a lot is that there's pretty much a firm line between those who come to Felarya for the Vore, and those who don't. Those who come for the Vore, and only for the Vore, insist that something must be eaten alive and wriggling: Not doing such is "yielding" to the newbies who are only interested in it to "make their own agenda".

Meanwhile, those who come for the Fantasy - and only for the Fantasy - argue that there's no logical reason why someone must eat someone else whole and go "Oooh-aaah" as they wriggle in their chest / throat / whatever: Creating something specifically with Vore in mind is bending over and "making sure Felarya is and always will be a giant fetish".

Now, lots of people don't believe either of such: They feel you can have a balance of both. However, with both ends arguing, people tend to be swept up into camps. Furthermore, a lot of people feel strongly about some opinions certain groups hold. For an example: More common in the "OM NOM" than "DA CANON!" group, there is a presence of misanthropy. This is not to say the former is all misanthropes, or the later has none, but one must admit the former has much more people irate with humanity than the later. Similarly, the later group seems to have much more people focusing not on the magic of Felarya, but the civilizations and the importance of tech and the likes.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:54 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
well i think we just said that because we cant think of a way for humans nekos and elves to be needed in a predator diet. I'm tired of people discussing why preds eat humans nekos and elves. Otherwise I suggest we come up with a reason why they need to so people stop complaining about it.

Vitamin N(eko) Razz




Actually, if it weren't for the "Jade Problem", I would seriously suggest making the giant predators have an inability to create some vitamin, enzyme, or protein that they require for long term health, which they obtained by eating people. Maybe something related to a vital system (like the brain), to explain why they just don't "draw blood"... you'd die anyway if they just ate your brain, so why wouldn't they also eat the rest of you?

But that sort of solution would cause Jade all sorts of problems (a non-person eating predator who guards a village, written by Ravana3k), and I think having Jade as a character is more important than solving the "why do they eat people" question. But that's just me. (Though, if she were a mutant who had the ability to produce the missing component... hmmmm.)



Wait-a-minute, did I just suggest an idea that basically turns Crisis and co. into zombies? I did! ^^;
(Though the idea of a chibi Crisis moaning "brains" amuses me to no end.)

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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:09 pm

Jade's not the only one, Oldman. Unless it's been retconned, Cypress also didn't eat people.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:31 pm

Raveolution wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
Anyways, I'd have to say that I don't approve eating humans. Espeically since we've established in another thread that it's not even for survival.
Same here. And I also find myself not approving of eating nekos or tinies...
That goes for anything with sentience. Although, perhaps with a form of death penalty... meh. That's still controversial.

As for what Malahite said about the two camps: I guess I'd firmly be in the second. Now, I like vore, don't get me wrong. But I think canon and logic take precedence.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:43 pm

Malahite wrote:
Jade's not the only one, Oldman. Unless it's been retconned, Cypress also didn't eat people.

I forgot her, how could I forget about her? Sad


Maybe it's that special non-Felaryan soil she lives in, contains those missing nutrients. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:30 am

Oldman40k2003 wrote:

Actually, if it weren't for the "Jade Problem", I would seriously suggest making the giant predators have an inability to create some vitamin, enzyme, or protein that they require for long term health, which they obtained by eating people.

In addition to Cyprus (and to Anna, most of the time), there are other characters who don't eat people. Timing2's small slug girl Felecia, or Karbo's fairy Aya, or Randomdude's naga Rin. Or my dridder Canni and my dryad Shelny, for example. (I know they're not canon, but I'd be unhappy if I could no longer write about them without contradicting canon. Wink)

We could say that they all have some sort of genetic anomaly. But I think the current consensus works fine. Giant predators eat humans because
a) they're a lot easier to catch than almost any other creature. Cutting humans out of your diet would make hunting at least slightly more difficult;
b) they're highly nutritious, and so predators are instinctively drawn to them;
c) predators are brought up to view them as food, and genuinely see nothing wrong in eating them. When you've always lived in a society where there's a certain norm, and that norm makes your life easier and more enjoyable, you'll rarely challenge it. Plus, you get used to a taste; there's probably something a bit addictive about humans. It's been established that most predators find them delicious, and it's not easy to cut a habit. (Which is why Milly struggled when she gave up eating people just temporarily.) I know people in real life who tell me they've given serious thought to becoming vegetarians for ethical reasons, but who admit they lack the willpower, because they like the taste too much. I even know someone who became a vegetarian and then switched back, because she couldn't keep it up. For predators in Felarya, it would be difficult not only to recognise that eating people may be wrong, but then also to act on that belief. There may actually be predators who feel a bit guilty about eating people, but who do it anyway.

Plus, by eating humans, predators are maintaining the Felaryan ecosystem. Felarya draws in great numbers of lost and bewildered humans. Predation keeps their numbers down. Natural evolution probably ensured that predators capable of catching humans easily and deriving nutrition from them would thrive.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:38 am

Oldman40k2003 wrote:

Wait-a-minute, did I just suggest an idea that basically turns Crisis and co. into zombies? I did! ^^;
(Though the idea of a chibi Crisis moaning "brains" amuses me to no end.)

aww XD
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:48 pm

ZionAtriedes wrote:
But I think canon and logic take precedence.

Well it's canon for preds to eat. Frankly I'm satisified with just having that be a part of felarya that's never really explained too much. In nature crazy stuff happens ALL the time, and we (especially as humans) dont understand it. Some breakthrough in the next few years could re-define how we look at nature, and we'd have to fix all our explanations for various reasons that are just too meticulous to debate over and try to explain. Plus is it not also enough of a reason that they just feel like eating them? At their size it's perfectly convenient. I think when a naga goes "hunting" they "go hunting" but most of the time they just run into the stupid newcomers or foolish humans, and since they're bite sized and healthy, hey, why not?

As a vorarephile I am satisfied with that, I understand that a lot of people wont be because "it needs to be scientifically explained". Well I'll just say whatever then :/ not everything's explained in this universe.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I be sympathizing with again?   Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:53 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
But I think canon and logic take precedence.

Well it's canon for preds to eat. Frankly I'm satisified with just having that be a part of felarya that's never really explained too much. In nature crazy stuff happens ALL the time, and we (especially as humans) dont understand it. Some breakthrough in the next few years could re-define how we look at nature, and we'd have to fix all our explanations for various reasons that are just too meticulous to debate over and try to explain. Plus is it not also enough of a reason that they just feel like eating them? At their size it's perfectly convenient. I think when a naga goes "hunting" they "go hunting" but most of the time they just run into the stupid newcomers or foolish humans, and since they're bite sized and healthy, hey, why not?

As a vorarephile I am satisfied with that, I understand that a lot of people wont be because "it needs to be scientifically explained". Well I'll just say whatever then :/ not everything's explained in this universe.

Agreed. Predators are predators and they just go hunting for whatever they can find and that often happens to be stupid humans and whatnot. And really it doesn't need to be explained in my opinion. Predators eat and they often run into easily edible humans and nekos and elves and whatnot.
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