Alright, everyone, let's make some magic!

I've had a change of heart about the issue of magic in Felarya, and now I fervently believe that we are to characterize it as quickly as possible.

For that purpose, the first step is to gather the ways in which magic [but specially its consequences] have been used in Felarya so far, at least in canon, to discuss from there the next step.

A-> PREDATOR SENSE
If you've read the first manga...

Spoiler:

So according to this, there's some innate characteristic that wizards have, setting them apart from real people. This is tangible to some degree, as predators can detect it.
That goes against everything as I've seen it, but I'll roll with it: what learning magic does to your brain makes you radioactive.

B-> FAIRY MAGIC
If you've read the first manga...

Spoiler:

And she couldn't shrink back to fly away in the presence of an abyssal tonorion, though Crisis felt the tonorion through its antimagic aura.
Therefore, antimagic is radioactive too, though not as much. Also, fairies aren't completely helpless inside antimagic fields; they can still run away.

C-> INFINITY PLUS ONE SWORD
If you've read the first manga...

Spoiler:

Therefore, Alvar sticks his blade in tonorions. In front of Subeta. And she gasps in envy. That makes him the true sex god of Felarya.

D-> POOR TONORIONS
If you've read the first manga...

Spoiler:

In her defense, she didn't know she could do that.
Therefore, tonorions need to unionize and fight for their rights.


A supposition: maybe fairies don't exactly have the power in themselves, maybe they draw it from the ambient and that's what the wings are for? I could totally see Felarya having magic that's specially good for making sure things get eaten, we know the magic in Felarya can make someone a predator for no good reason upon entering (though it happens to angels more often than to anyone else). Also there's the fact that Felarya makes you immortal whether you like it or not, maybe fairies can shrink people so easily because there's something about Felarya backing them up. I've never seen anyone resist shrinking out of sheer toughness or force of will or anything.

Plus it'd explain how could Subeta not know she could; maybe with the glove and Verdant Fury and Alvar close by, there was enough around for her to overpower the bugger? It'd also explain why fairies prefer pack hunting.


I've read tome 2, but I didn't learn anything out of it.

I thought we had a whole page on the wiki about the different types of magic

This thingy

We do. Now we need to get down to the way magic works, not on how you use it.

Firstly: This thread. Read it. ALL OF IT.

Also, about Subeta shrinking the tonorion, I thought it had something to do with her glove.

By the way, I think that we should not have anti magic. Seriously, it can just get too complicated. Instead just have antimagic = absence of magic. This works because anything that doesn't have a magic aura will stand out just as much to magic sensing abilities like the predator sense because it will be like a hole in the normal background magic field of Felarya. The antimagic aura can easily be explained as a magical 'earth.' So, something that is (mostly) magic immune but conducts magic, making it suck magic from it's surrounding.

Hey,

I think there's a strong argument that that other thread did a pretty good job, helping to lead to the wiki page and to the idea that we don't want to chain any artist or author working in Felarya to a specific set of rules-of-magic. That said, it seems to me that this thread was prompted by discussion in the RPG thread, and in order to have a sensible set of game-rules it is necessary to limit the players choices - or at least to limit the expression of those choices to certain game-mechanics.

PS, even though I can't stand Vancian magic, this is hilarious:

Quote :

Here you go, some sample "Vore magic" spells, most of which need no explanation:

Hasten Digestion
Slow Digestion (for the predators that like that kind of thing)
Alter Taste: Sweet
Alter Taste: Savory
Imbue Flavor: Strawberry
Imbue Flavor: Chocolate
Trip Prey (for those darn runners)
Summon Buffet (Group teleportation spell)
I Saw It First! (Some sort of protection spell. Cast it on your prey to keep other predators from snatching him/her!)

That's it, off the top of my head. Smile

Anyway, I have some thoughts, but they're more related to the RPG thread, so I'll post them there.

Yours,

Ambrose,

Ambrose, I can't stand Vancian anymore either, but it has chained my mind forevermore.

Long read is long... but I think I got the general point.
Also, AJ, if the point I got was the right point, then antimagic can't make things worse than they already are.

My own approach to magic is that it is not really an energy so much as a... an... a thing, which works by somehow altering the meaning of things. It doesn't exist everywhere, at least not in the same way. So when a fairy shrinks you, it's making you smaller, it's not altering your size in relation to squat. It's shrinking you, period. And a wizard throwing a fireball is just throwing fireballs. Your damn fault if you start burning.

But if you roll that way, I was also thinking on magic representable as an n-dimensional scalar (its gradient to the known dimensions, of course, is vectorial), function of at least 5 known dimensions (the 5th being the plane of existence you're in). Each wizard knows how to draw on a vector composed of several components of its gradient. Maybe those components tend to group themselves in linearly independant sets of four, which also tend to be built around the four elements. That'd explain the prevalence of dozens of different elemental systems. At least one of the components of the n-dimensional scalar is reactive to feelings/thoughts (and quite a few I'd say), or else knowing control of it would be impossible.

The number of components to this scalar would be infinite, of course, or close to it. There's still like a million kinks to the idea, of course. Care to look for them?

I dunno... personally I don't like the idea of forcing magic to be a structured, predictable thing. Isn't what makes it magic the way it's impossible, confusing and ill-defined?

Still, some basic ground rules on what you can and cannot do would be good, that'd stop bad RPers and story writers going 'BAM UR DED I WIN'

Jew wrote:

Still, some basic ground rules on what you can and cannot do would be good, that'd stop bad RPers and story writers going 'BAM UR DED I WIN'

I agree with this suggestion.

We've got to remember that supposedly ALL magic works in Felarya. We can only make base rules, not expand into the specifics.

OK, here's some stuff I think should be universal

Resurrection is not an option. When you die, you stay dead and that's it. It is rare, but possible for anomalies like the one that saved Anna to occur, but these are based purely on luck, and can only be performed by Guardians or creatures around their level, which aren't supposed to be used in stories anyway. Death is incredibly cheapened when people keep coming back. For example, I wasn't particularly upset by one of my favorite comic book characters dying because death is a revolving door, and it was a while later before the creator confirmed the character was staying dead, so all the impact and emotion the death should have had was shrugged off.

Some characters start out small and end up becoming giants. While this does happen, and is a natural part of many giant creatures growing process, a human mage (With big tits and a desire to eat people) shouldn't just be able to cast a few spells and put herself way higher up on the food chain. This is cheap and overdone, IMO. One of the main themes on Felarya is how tough and inescapable the food chain is for humans - they shouldn't just be able to say 'if you can't beat em, join em' and be done with it.

Most characters on the Wiki seem to have a certain Element to them, like Electricity for Anna, Nature for Crisis and Weather for Lea. I think that mages should be limited to one basic element for their magic, with other elements being much less effective, or completely ineffective when used by people of the wrong type. There could also a bit of Scissors-Paper-Rock going on with magic types too, like Fire mages are good against plant and nature based spells and creatures, but weak against water and earth.

I've been thinking up little tidbits on magic and such for years now, though I've long since learned most people rarely listen. Doesn't help I rant so much...

My view of magic is very scientific. "Fire element" and "water element" are based on ancient, outdated beliefs that frankly, are just plain wrong. I really get tired of hearing about the "four elements" thing. Jeez, we proved that wrong centuries ago! There's no "fire element", because an element is something that other things are made of, and fire is not a building component. And earth, fire, and air can all be broken down into other substances.

Now, people like to say that magic doesn't need to follow physical laws. I vehemently disagree. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I personally think it's kind of stupid. Physical laws keep the universe together. Eliminate one, and you have a domino effect where shit just plain can't exist. Ignore something as trivial as the Square-Cube Law, and then all of geometry goes out of whack, which messes with gravity, which messes with everything. Science. Is. Tantamount.

Does this mean we have to be completely real with things? No! We can take some artistic liberties, and maybe even skate over a few things. But I think that everything should be logical, and roughly fit with rational scientific concepts. In the end, my "magic model" is really just the manipulation of various energies to cause desired effects. Concentrating thermal energy can combust air and cause fire, which can then be manipulated by the control of the thermal energy. In the end, fire is energy itself: heat and light caused by combusting materials.

There can be fictional energies, too. Qi, psi, eldritch, etc. If anyone is actually interested, I could possibly type up a more detailed model.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

I've been thinking up little tidbits on magic and such for years now, though I've long since learned most people rarely listen. Doesn't help I rant so much...

My view of magic is very scientific. "Fire element" and "water element" are based on ancient, outdated beliefs that frankly, are just plain wrong. I really get tired of hearing about the "four elements" thing. Jeez, we proved that wrong centuries ago! There's no "fire element", because an element is something that other things are made of, and fire is not a building component. And earth, fire, and air can all be broken down into other substances.

I knew there had to be someone else who shared my views on this. If you don't mind I'll expand on this:
If we still want to keep some semblance of these "elements," it is easy to explain. The so called "fire" mage uses mainly fire for one or mroe of the following reasons:

• They were trained that way. That is, they were taught that they were only good at "fire" magic, so they can only use spells that involve heat and fire. Therefore, the reason is psychological. This sort of mage would be common as on Felarya a magician is more common than a science teacher. Therefore mages who learned their magic by rote would be common
  
• They believe in the "4 elements" and that all magic is based around these elements.
  
• Affinity or familiarity for the certain "element" The mage knows that he can learn other magic but doesn't really want to because he understands how their element works. Stemming from a mage who has an understand of chemistry but feels an affinity for their element or the rote learned mage who has realised that what he was taught wasn't exactly correct but still sticks with an "element" because they have experience in its use.

TL;DR: Why do they use X element? It's all in their head.

A mage with an advanced knowledge of chemistry would be able to learn all sorts of magic, as they would be able to understand exactly what they were doing and apply it to almost anything. these mages would be rarer than the rote learned mage, for, as I stated before, science teachers aren't all that common on Felarya and scientists tend to die in the field often. However, even without a science tutor it is possible for mages with an open mind to discover some of these things themselves, as they certainly have the tools at their disposal. The library in Negav would certainly have quite a few books on the subject and possibly more books against it, written by the rote learned spellcasters.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Now, people like to say that magic doesn't need to follow physical laws. I vehemently disagree. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I personally think it's kind of stupid. Physical laws keep the universe together. Eliminate one, and you have a domino effect where shit just plain can't exist. Ignore something as trivial as the Square-Cube Law, and then all of geometry goes out of whack, which messes with gravity, which messes with everything. Science. Is. Tantamount.

Does this mean we have to be completely real with things? No! We can take some artistic liberties, and maybe even skate over a few things. But I think that everything should be logical, and roughly fit with rational scientific concepts. In the end, my "magic model" is really just the manipulation of various energies to cause desired effects. Concentrating thermal energy can combust air and cause fire, which can then be manipulated by the control of the thermal energy. In the end, fire is energy itself: heat and light caused by combusting materials.

There can be fictional energies, too. Qi, psi, eldritch, etc. If anyone is actually interested, I could possibly type up a more detailed model.

^This

Anime-Junkie wrote:

I knew there had to be someone else who shared my views on this. If you don't mind I'll expand on this:
If we still want to keep some semblance of these "elements," it is easy to explain. The so called "fire" mage uses mainly fire for one or mroe of the following reasons:

• They were trained that way. That is, they were taught that they were only good at "fire" magic, so they can only use spells that involve heat and fire. Therefore, the reason is psychological. This sort of mage would be common as on Felarya a magician is more common than a science teacher. Therefore mages who learned their magic by rote would be common
  
• They believe in the "4 elements" and that all magic is based around these elements.
  
• Affinity or familiarity for the certain "element" The mage knows that he can learn other magic but doesn't really want to because he understands how their element works. Stemming from a mage who has an understand of chemistry but feels an affinity for their element or the rote learned mage who has realised that what he was taught wasn't exactly correct but still sticks with an "element" because they have experience in its use.

TL;DR: Why do they use X element? It's all in their head.

EXACTLY what I was thinking! For instance, a "water mage" could probably control the kinetic activity of water-based liquids well, but not so much with solids, as they behave differently. Same with fire: thermal energy acts (and "feels") very differently than other types of energy. If you look at it, the four elements break down into "fire, liquid, solid, and gas", really, since the matter phase pretty much defines how it acts kinetically. Although, of course, a water mage couldn't really control mercury nearly as well as water-based liquids, if his education was based on water. Same with an earth mage and various metals.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

A mage with an advanced knowledge of chemistry would be able to learn all sorts of magic, as they would be able to understand exactly what they were doing and apply it to almost anything.

That's basically exactly what Zion is. A mage who treats magic like a science, not some arcane and mystical art. In fact, he dislikes the term "magic" because of the connotations.

Well, I suppose I could draw up a more advanced description of my model, then...

Jew wrote:

OK, here's some stuff I think should be universal

Resurrection is not an option. When you die, you stay dead and that's it. It is rare, but possible for anomalies like the one that saved Anna to occur, but these are based purely on luck, and can only be performed by Guardians or creatures around their level, which aren't supposed to be used in stories anyway. Death is incredibly cheapened when people keep coming back. For example, I wasn't particularly upset by one of my favorite comic book characters dying because death is a revolving door, and it was a while later before the creator confirmed the character was staying dead, so all the impact and emotion the death should have had was shrugged off.

Some characters start out small and end up becoming giants. While this does happen, and is a natural part of many giant creatures growing process, a human mage (With big tits and a desire to eat people) shouldn't just be able to cast a few spells and put herself way higher up on the food chain. This is cheap and overdone, IMO. One of the main themes on Felarya is how tough and inescapable the food chain is for humans - they shouldn't just be able to say 'if you can't beat em, join em' and be done with it.

Most characters on the Wiki seem to have a certain Element to them, like Electricity for Anna, Nature for Crisis and Weather for Lea. I think that mages should be limited to one basic element for their magic, with other elements being much less effective, or completely ineffective when used by people of the wrong type. There could also a bit of Scissors-Paper-Rock going on with magic types too, like Fire mages are good against plant and nature based spells and creatures, but weak against water and earth.

Necromancy does not work in Felarya. So resurrection is impossible. Even for a guardian. Anna wasn't 'resurrected.' She never died. I believe the technical term for the magic used to save her is 'retconjuration.'

Second. Only fairies have size changing magic. It's a racial magic. If that's not how it works than that's how it should work. No one just, 'grows giant' while in Felarya. Some people are just giant when they first come to Felarya. They had the giant in them all along or something I guess. But while you are here, you are stuck barring fairy intervention or magical artifact.

As for the element thing. No. No no no. No one should be confined to just one element as a ironclad law. Sure, people will have an affinity, and it may be harder for a certain person to learn a type of magic, but it isn't less effective just because a 'fire' mage used it. A dryad could use fire magic should she wish. Lea isn't confined to weather magic. The more you study and practice, the better you are at magic. And everyone has their magic potential unlocked in Felarya. But without training, they may only be able to perform minor manipulations. Like producing a small flame, or moving a few pebbles.

In regard to you element guys. Sure, fire isn't an element. And magic can be turned into the types used in World of Darkness, where Forces magic controls electricity, fire, sound, light, and indeed even velocity and friction. But although the element thing is a tad nonsensical, it's an established trope thats already at use in Felarya. Fire nagas and Lightning nagas for example. What you are talking about can be just another way to learn magic. Some mages learn magic by learning how the world works. Preforming magic, with SCIENCE! Most don't know what an electron is, and would learn magic from other methods. Libraries and schools are kind of rare in Felarya. In fact, you could even say that knowledge is rare. If a neko tribe's mage is eaten, then they've lost their teacher of magic and can't learn anything more advanced than minor manipulations until they get another mage from another tribe, or some magical prodigy expiraments enough to teach himself.

Silent_eric wrote:

Necromancy does not work in Felarya. So resurrection is impossible. Even for a guardian. Anna wasn't 'resurrected.' She never died. I believe the technical term for the magic used to save her is 'retconjuration.'

I thought we covered Necromancy... Ages ago.

Silent_eric wrote:

Second. Only fairies have size changing magic. It's a racial magic. If that's not how it works than that's how it should work. No one just, 'grows giant' while in Felarya. Some people are just giant when they first come to Felarya. They had the giant in them all along or something I guess. But while you are here, you are stuck barring fairy intervention or magical artifact.

Now if we can just get that across to all those people on dA with their size changing magic nekos and whatnot...

Silent_eric wrote:

As for the element thing. No. No no no. No one should be confined to just one element as a ironclad law. Sure, people will have an affinity, and it may be harder for a certain person to learn a type of magic, but it isn't less effective just because a 'fire' mage used it. A dryad could use fire magic should she wish. Lea isn't confined to weather magic. The more you study and practice, the better you are at magic. And everyone has their magic potential unlocked in Felarya. But without training, they may only be able to perform minor manipulations. Like producing a small flame, or moving a few pebbles.

Agreed, this is far too restrictive.

Silent_eric wrote:

In regard to you element guys. Sure, fire isn't an element. And magic can be turned into the types used in World of Darkness, where Forces magic controls electricity, fire, sound, light, and indeed even velocity and friction. But although the element thing is a tad nonsensical, it's an established trope thats already at use in Felarya. Fire nagas and Lightning nagas for example.

In regards to the X element nagas, why the hell do we have those? I don't see lightning or fire dridders or harpies. What we should have instead of that are affinities. Look at it this way, Crisis is apparently a 'nature' naga (nature isn't even an element?). However, she hasn't developed any of her magical skills. Rather, it should be said that she has a nature affinity. If she developed her magic she would be a nature naga. Basically this is what I’m saying: No “fire” nagas or “nature” nagas as they exist now. Instead, beings have affinities for certain forms of matter or concepts, like ‘nature.’ Then, if they learned magic they would learn things related to their affinities much easier. When they do learn magic then they become a X element predator. So take for example Scala, who (as far as I know) uses fire magic. She is a fire naga. If she didn’t know the magic, she’d just be a naga with a fire affinity. This makes much more sense AND keeps the existing tropes plausible.

Silent_eric wrote:

What you are talking about can be just another way to learn magic. Some mages learn magic by learning how the world works. Preforming magic, with SCIENCE! Most don't know what an electron is, and would learn magic from other methods. Libraries and schools are kind of rare in Felarya. In fact, you could even say that knowledge is rare. If a neko tribe's mage is eaten, then they've lost their teacher of magic and can't learn anything more advanced than minor manipulations until they get another mage from another tribe, or some magical prodigy expiraments enough to teach himself.

Exactly.
Some mages would be taught that magic is the manipulation of the mystic energies, others taught that words have power over matter (and by extension, mystic runes). Still others are taught how magic influences atoms and sub-atomic particles and cause them to perform the required action. Finally, there would be those who just know that when they wave their arms and shout strange things happen. All of them are correct. This is what I’m saying. Element magic is psychological. It’s about affinity and maybe even how the brain works.
...
Random half-baked idea:
Brains are wired slightly different on Felarya due to the high magic field, causing almost everyone to have an affinity.

---

Please excuse my poor explanations, I am/was very tired at the time of posting this. I will come back after sleep and fix it up to my usual standard.

Silent_eric wrote:

Necromancy does not work in Felarya. So resurrection is impossible. Even for a guardian. Anna wasn't 'resurrected.' She never died. I believe the technical term for the magic used to save her is 'retconjuration.'

Fair enough, but I've read some (admittedly mediocre) stories that use ressurection, or what essentially amounts to it in their stories, thinking that it isn't necromancy if don't get zombies.

Silent_eric wrote:

As for the element thing. No. No no no. No one should be confined to just one element as a ironclad law. Sure, people will have an affinity, and it may be harder for a certain person to learn a type of magic, but it isn't less effective just because a 'fire' mage used it. A dryad could use fire magic should she wish. Lea isn't confined to weather magic. The more you study and practice, the better you are at magic. And everyone has their magic potential unlocked in Felarya. But without training, they may only be able to perform minor manipulations. Like producing a small flame, or moving a few pebbles.

No no no yourself. Why would a Dryad, a creature that has adapted to its specific role for millions of years and is overflowing with natural plant energy have the ability, the need or even the desire to burn things? Wiki quote on them:

"Many dryads share a common weakness: fire. Once they start burning they are hard to put out, and so they are very afraid of it. Most dryads will completely hide from a fire based or fire using threat, but some (such as Drayla) have found some good defenses against it."

One of Drayla'a abilities is creating rain, suggesting that she's a water/weather type. And it makes perfect sense, plants and water have a close relationship. The rock Harpies, while not actually having much to do with rock or earth magic, have innate wind magic, which they use to catch prey and possibly to help them fly as well. Why would any creature evolve to randomly develop potentially useless, or even dangerous magical abilities when there are plenty that would complement them perfectly? Aside from some crap plot about some poor mermaid exiled because she had electrical magic and zapped her family or whatever.

Imo the fact that the ELEMENTals exist throws a spanner in the works of people who want to neuter magic and make it into another form of science. The Wiki has some very clear lists about what the different Elementals are like and what they do, so if they're the living embodiments of elements then the elements themselves must exist. Unless you want to call them 'Magic most likely to resemble a mix of H20 and 08 though completely maleable elementals', I think saying 'Oh look, a Steam elemental' works better.

I think if you have magic be some overly long, detailed scientific explanation people probably won't pay attention to anyway, you lose the, well, magic. And I doubt people will pay much attention anyway, since completely changing the way Felarya's main feature works would mean looooads of stories would now be incorrect. Saying 'The characters who study magic their whole lives don't actually know how it works cause they aren't smart like us LOL' doesn't really soften the blow.

And giving everything on the planet the potential to be great at whatever magic they please is a long step along the road of Half-naga-half-fairy-half-dryad-illegitimate-princess-who-uses-darkness-fire-ice-plant-water-and-light magic type characters. And loads of species already have innate magic skills anyway, I doubt they need much more.

Silent_eric wrote:

Second. Only fairies have size changing magic. It's a racial magic. If that's not how it works than that's how it should work. No one just, 'grows giant' while in Felarya. Some people are just giant when they first come to Felarya. They had the giant in them all along or something I guess. But while you are here, you are stuck barring fairy intervention or magical artifact.

Well, we need to first figure out why they can change size. We had a discussion a while ago, but we never had any conclusions (that I'm aware of). If it's a dimensional distortion, then theoretically, it can be replicated by non-fairies. After all, if a mage can manipulate dimensional fabric to create portals through time and space, what's to stop said mage of distorting their own dimensions? If it's biological, as in something about their own cellular structure (like the naga Katrika), then fairies wouldn't be able to change the sizes of others. Then again, one could simply say that bypassing spacetime and creating portals is completely different than size-altering, even if they work on dimensional principles, and that such a feat would be nigh-impossible for anyone without the instinctive knowledge of how to do so. Kinda shaky, but better than nothing.

Silent_eric wrote:

In regard to you element guys. Sure, fire isn't an element. And magic can be turned into the types used in World of Darkness, where Forces magic controls electricity, fire, sound, light, and indeed even velocity and friction. But although the element thing is a tad nonsensical, it's an established trope thats already at use in Felarya. Fire nagas and Lightning nagas for example. What you are talking about can be just another way to learn magic. Some mages learn magic by learning how the world works. Preforming magic, with SCIENCE! Most don't know what an electron is, and would learn magic from other methods. Libraries and schools are kind of rare in Felarya. In fact, you could even say that knowledge is rare. If a neko tribe's mage is eaten, then they've lost their teacher of magic and can't learn anything more advanced than minor manipulations until they get another mage from another tribe, or some magical prodigy expiraments enough to teach himself.

It's sort of like ancient metallurgy. Craftsmen didn't know the physics and chemistry behind melting metal and forging it. They made up alchemical myths and mystical explanations for things they did not understand. This isn't to say they didn't know what worked, they just didn't know how it worked. They knew that if you heat metal, it becomes possible to mold it. Their explanations may have been off-base, but their basic premise was true. The same could be said of magic: some superstitious and old-fashioned mages may know nothing of science, but they know how to perform the spells they were taught. The only problem is that without deeper knowledge, your capabilities are a lot more limited. Sure, you can do like ancient alchemists and natural philosophers, and bumble around until you find that blowing air into a forge makes it hotter, but that's guess-and-check, and you'd be much better off if you knew that fire needs oxygen to keep going. In fact, for some of you more historically-inclined, one could say it's the difference between Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Some mages would be taught that magic is the manipulation of the mystic energies, others taught that words have power over matter (and by extension, mystic runes). Still others are taught how magic influences atoms and sub-atomic particles and cause them to perform the required action. Finally, there would be those who just know that when they wave their arms and shout strange things happen. All of them are correct. This is what I’m saying. Element magic is psychological. It’s about affinity and maybe even how the brain works.

I refer back to my metallurgy analogy: while they aren't necessarily "right", they know enough about what they're doing to achieve the desired result. Incantations and arm-waving, I believe, are just to further focus the mind on the action of casting (although that idea is far from new or original). It isn't really the words or runes that have power: it's the meaning you associate with that word. Much like when religious people mutter a quick prayer before doing something that is frightening or unpleasant: reminding themselves of what they believe and what's at stake strengthens them. Or if a student were studying for a test: saying something aloud to himself, or writing it down, might help him focus and remember.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

In regards to the X element nagas, why the hell do we have those? I don't see lightning or fire dridders or harpies. What we should have instead of that are affinities. Look at it this way, Crisis is apparently a 'nature' naga (nature isn't even an element?). However, she hasn't developed any of her magical skills. Rather, it should be said that she has a nature affinity. If she developed her magic she would be a nature naga. Basically this is what I’m saying: No “fire” nagas or “nature” nagas as they exist now. Instead, beings have affinities for certain forms of matter or concepts, like ‘nature.’ Then, if they learned magic they would learn things related to their affinities much easier. When they do learn magic then they become a X element predator. So take for example Scala, who (as far as I know) uses fire magic. She is a fire naga. If she didn’t know the magic, she’d just be a naga with a fire affinity. This makes much more sense AND keeps the existing tropes plausible.

Agreed. A quick-thinking and energetic individual would be more likely to possess the quickly-shifting focus and rapid thinking required to manipulate electrons. A more relaxed and fluid individual could identify with the shifting mass of water. And so on, and so on. Although, if one insists on having differing sub-species (which is what I see happening), then one could simply argue that it's a genetic knowledge, much like my earlier statement about fairies and size-changing. A fire naga naturally knows the best ways to manipulate fire, and perhaps their minds and bodies are specifically crafted to further support and enhance this innate ability. This could be why fire nagas are weak to cold: they require higher body temperatures, so as to not be overheated by their own flames. Of course, that's just because I like to go with the idea that nagas of all sorts aren't natural (as if evolution would cleanly divide snake and human at the waist!), nor are any other taurian species. Thus, more "naturally evolved" races such as humans would have no such differentiations: there are no "fire humans". As for the lack of elemental affinity among dridders or other species, that could simply be because the elemental nagas were created by differing sources over time.

Jew wrote:

Why would a Dryad, a creature that has adapted to its specific role for millions of years and is overflowing with natural plant energy have the ability, the need or even the desire to burn things? Wiki quote on them:

"Many dryads share a common weakness: fire. Once they start burning they are hard to put out, and so they are very afraid of it. Most dryads will completely hide from a fire based or fire using threat, but some (such as Drayla) have found some good defenses against it."

I don't think he meant we need fire dryads. You're right in that fire would be directly contradictory to a dryad's nature. What he's trying to say is that it would be POSSIBLE, not that it would be smart.

Jew wrote:

Imo the fact that the ELEMENTals exist throws a spanner in the works of people who want to neuter magic and make it into another form of science. The Wiki has some very clear lists about what the different Elementals are like and what they do, so if they're the living embodiments of elements then the elements themselves must exist. Unless you want to call them 'Magic most likely to resemble a mix of H20 and 08 though completely maleable elementals', I think saying 'Oh look, a Steam elemental' works better.

Well then, call me a mechanic, 'cause here I go to dislodge that damn spanner. They're NOT the living embodiments of elements. Saying that fire is sentient is pretty, well, dumb. Rather, one can suppose that it is an immaterial consciousness bound to a material form (huh, how convenient, I wrote a story with one of those in it). Once again, I go back to my "solid, liquid, gas, fire" argument: since water is the most common homogenous liquid, it serves to say that 99.99% of all "elementals" that choose/require binding with a liquid form would go with water. Same with earth, and air. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the wiki says:

Quote :

Elementals can be roughly defined as spirits inhabiting nonliving matter, though they are infinitely more complex than that. For example, a water elemental isn't just moving water with a mind of its own! Once the matter is possessed by an elemental, it becomes the body of the creature and forms complex organs just like in a regular organic creature's body.

So basically, it is an immaterial intelligence that binds to a material form. Exactly as I said. They're not "living embodiments of the elements", they're simply creatures that make the "elements" their own bodies.

Jew wrote:

I think if you have magic be some overly long, detailed scientific explanation people probably won't pay attention to anyway, you lose the, well, magic.

That depends. Some of us actually think that the concept of "LOLz, I can do whatever I want 'cause it's magic" shouldn't fly. Call it "neutering", and we'll call it "rationalizing". I'm not saying every mage needs to give a big, long lecture about their abilities. All I'm saying is that a GOOD writer would take logical and rational concepts into mind when they're figuring out what a mage would do, what spells would counter what, and the other finer points of magic. You can say that the magic is lost, I simply say that it makes the magic all the more real.

Just to jump in: I don't mind if there's a race that has elemental affinities, I'm cool with that. However, make it a specific thing for all of 'em. Not "Oh these Nagas can be Fire specialized, but these Nagas Ice, and these Lightning".

Furthermore, and I know this is a bit of a stretch what with the age of Anime & Comic Characters, but couldn't you have a Mage that, I 'unno, specializes in multiple fields but is a master of none? I mean, Gandalf could do Fire, Invisibility, 'Holy' Light, and I'm pretty sure a few other things (Would heating weapons count as a Lore of Metal or Fire?). I know that this allows Mary / Gary Sue / Stu characters to grow, but I'd rather - as a comparison - take a Final Fantasy Tactics-like system than a Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - a few cheesy characters where others are specialized than have it so you have a few cliche roles put for everyone that are lead to more abuse to work around such.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Silent_eric wrote:

Second. Only fairies have size changing magic. It's a racial magic. If that's not how it works than that's how it should work. No one just, 'grows giant' while in Felarya. Some people are just giant when they first come to Felarya. They had the giant in them all along or something I guess. But while you are here, you are stuck barring fairy intervention or magical artifact.

Well, we need to first figure out why they can change size. We had a discussion a while ago, but we never had any conclusions (that I'm aware of). If it's a dimensional distortion, then theoretically, it can be replicated by non-fairies. After all, if a mage can manipulate dimensional fabric to create portals through time and space, what's to stop said mage of distorting their own dimensions? If it's biological, as in something about their own cellular structure (like the naga Katrika), then fairies wouldn't be able to change the sizes of others. Then again, one could simply say that bypassing spacetime and creating portals is completely different than size-altering, even if they work on dimensional principles, and that such a feat would be nigh-impossible for anyone without the instinctive knowledge of how to do so. Kinda shaky, but better than nothing.

I believe that the reason fairies are the only ones with size changing magic is this:
Fairies brains work very differently from pretty much every other creature’s brains. This difference is part of what allows them to use their size changing magic. If you were to somehow transplant a human’s brain into a fairy’s body, they wouldn’t be able to use the magic. This difference also accounts for some of the behaviour found in almost all fairies; their brain is wired that way. If you look in the rumours thread (I think it was there) there is a rumour of a special helmet artefact that causes the wearer to think like a fairy and also empowers them with magic to use the size changing magic. Of course, because it causes you to think like a fairy, you’re not going to be exactly the same person when you put it on.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Silent_eric wrote:

In regard to you element guys. Sure, fire isn't an element. And magic can be turned into the types used in World of Darkness, where Forces magic controls electricity, fire, sound, light, and indeed even velocity and friction. But although the element thing is a tad nonsensical, it's an established trope thats already at use in Felarya. Fire nagas and Lightning nagas for example. What you are talking about can be just another way to learn magic. Some mages learn magic by learning how the world works. Preforming magic, with SCIENCE! Most don't know what an electron is, and would learn magic from other methods. Libraries and schools are kind of rare in Felarya. In fact, you could even say that knowledge is rare. If a neko tribe's mage is eaten, then they've lost their teacher of magic and can't learn anything more advanced than minor manipulations until they get another mage from another tribe, or some magical prodigy expiraments enough to teach himself.

It's sort of like ancient metallurgy. Craftsmen didn't know the physics and chemistry behind melting metal and forging it. They made up alchemical myths and mystical explanations for things they did not understand. This isn't to say they didn't know what worked, they just didn't know how it worked. They knew that if you heat metal, it becomes possible to mold it. Their explanations may have been off-base, but their basic premise was true. The same could be said of magic: some superstitious and old-fashioned mages may know nothing of science, but they know how to perform the spells they were taught. The only problem is that without deeper knowledge, your capabilities are a lot more limited. Sure, you can do like ancient alchemists and natural philosophers, and bumble around until you find that blowing air into a forge makes it hotter, but that's guess-and-check, and you'd be much better off if you knew that fire needs oxygen to keep going. In fact, for some of you more historically-inclined, one could say it's the difference between Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Some mages would be taught that magic is the manipulation of the mystic energies, others taught that words have power over matter (and by extension, mystic runes). Still others are taught how magic influences atoms and sub-atomic particles and cause them to perform the required action. Finally, there would be those who just know that when they wave their arms and shout strange things happen. All of them are correct. This is what I’m saying. Element magic is psychological. It’s about affinity and maybe even how the brain works.

I refer back to my metallurgy analogy: while they aren't necessarily "right", they know enough about what they're doing to achieve the desired result. Incantations and arm-waving, I believe, are just to further focus the mind on the action of casting (although that idea is far from new or original). It isn't really the words or runes that have power: it's the meaning you associate with that word. Much like when religious people mutter a quick prayer before doing something that is frightening or unpleasant: reminding themselves of what they believe and what's at stake strengthens them. Or if a student were studying for a test: saying something aloud to himself, or writing it down, might help him focus and remember.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

In regards to the X element nagas, why the hell do we have those? I don't see lightning or fire dridders or harpies. What we should have instead of that are affinities. Look at it this way, Crisis is apparently a 'nature' naga (nature isn't even an element?). However, she hasn't developed any of her magical skills. Rather, it should be said that she has a nature affinity. If she developed her magic she would be a nature naga. Basically this is what I’m saying: No “fire” nagas or “nature” nagas as they exist now. Instead, beings have affinities for certain forms of matter or concepts, like ‘nature.’ Then, if they learned magic they would learn things related to their affinities much easier. When they do learn magic then they become a X element predator. So take for example Scala, who (as far as I know) uses fire magic. She is a fire naga. If she didn’t know the magic, she’d just be a naga with a fire affinity. This makes much more sense AND keeps the existing tropes plausible.

Agreed. A quick-thinking and energetic individual would be more likely to possess the quickly-shifting focus and rapid thinking required to manipulate electrons. A more relaxed and fluid individual could identify with the shifting mass of water. And so on, and so on. Although, if one insists on having differing sub-species (which is what I see happening), then one could simply argue that it's a genetic knowledge, much like my earlier statement about fairies and size-changing. A fire naga naturally knows the best ways to manipulate fire, and perhaps their minds and bodies are specifically crafted to further support and enhance this innate ability. This could be why fire nagas are weak to cold: they require higher body temperatures, so as to not be overheated by their own flames.

Indeed, I am imagining a earth naga attempting to do fire magic. They’re response would be something like this: “It’s too chaotic, the flames don’t do what I want them to do... I’m doing to stick with rocks for now.” Because they would be so used to things staying where they put them, as with ‘earth’ magic (or the magic of manipulating solids), fire, which is high energy and constantly moving, would be very confusing.

ZionAtriedes"[quote="Jew wrote:

Why would a Dryad, a creature that has adapted to its specific role for millions of years and is overflowing with natural plant energy have the ability, the need or even the desire to burn things? Wiki quote on them:

"Many dryads share a common weakness: fire. Once they start burning they are hard to put out, and so they are very afraid of it. Most dryads will completely hide from a fire based or fire using threat, but some (such as Drayla) have found some good defenses against it."

I don't think he meant we need fire dryads. You're right in that fire would be directly contradictory to a dryad's nature. What he's trying to say is that it would be POSSIBLE, not that it would be smart.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Jew wrote:

Imo the fact that the ELEMENTals exist throws a spanner in the works of people who want to neuter magic and make it into another form of science. The Wiki has some very clear lists about what the different Elementals are like and what they do, so if they're the living embodiments of elements then the elements themselves must exist. Unless you want to call them 'Magic most likely to resemble a mix of H20 and 08 though completely maleable elementals', I think saying 'Oh look, a Steam elemental' works better.

Well then, call me a mechanic, 'cause here I go to dislodge that damn spanner. They're NOT the living embodiments of elements. Saying that fire is sentient is pretty, well, dumb. Rather, one can suppose that it is an immaterial consciousness bound to a material form (huh, how convenient, I wrote a story with one of those in it). Once again, I go back to my "solid, liquid, gas, fire" argument: since water is the most common homogenous liquid, it serves to say that 99.99% of all "elementals" that choose/require binding with a liquid form would go with water. Same with earth, and air. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the wiki says:

Quote :

Elementals can be roughly defined as spirits inhabiting nonliving matter, though they are infinitely more complex than that. For example, a water elemental isn't just moving water with a mind of its own! Once the matter is possessed by an elemental, it becomes the body of the creature and forms complex organs just like in a regular organic creature's body.

So basically, it is an immaterial intelligence that binds to a material form. Exactly as I said. They're not "living embodiments of the elements", they're simply creatures that make the "elements" their own bodies.

To further extend my ‘affinities’ thing, it could easily be explained that X elemental is a spirit with an affinity for X element.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Jew wrote:

I think if you have magic be some overly long, detailed scientific explanation people probably won't pay attention to anyway, you lose the, well, magic.

I simply say that it makes the magic all the more real.

Amen to that.

Malahite wrote:

Just to jump in: I don't mind if there's a race that has elemental affinities, I'm cool with that. However, make it a specific thing for all of 'em. Not "Oh these Nagas can be Fire specialized, but these Nagas Ice, and these Lightning".

Furthermore, and I know this is a bit of a stretch what with the age of Anime & Comic Characters, but couldn't you have a Mage that, I 'unno, specializes in multiple fields but is a master of none? I mean, Gandalf could do Fire, Invisibility, 'Holy' Light, and I'm pretty sure a few other things (Would heating weapons count as a Lore of Metal or Fire?). I know that this allows Mary / Gary Sue / Stu characters to grow, but I'd rather - as a comparison - take a Final Fantasy Tactics-like system than a Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - a few cheesy characters where others are specialized than have it so you have a few cliche roles put for everyone that are lead to more abuse to work around such.

Sure why not?
Imagine this; while a specialised X element Y knows how their element X works (on some level) and acts, the jack-of-all-magics can grasp the basics of all of them, but can’t really get into the advanced stuff without a very considerable effort and even them they wouldn’t be at the same level of a specialised who started learning magic at the same time.

I agree that dabbling in multiple magics should be possible, but simply rarer due to difficulty due to the very different approaches needed to manipulate different styles of magics and different elements. Plus, I'd assume that going after multiple elements would be taxing. Learning another element very different from your own is like a more extreme version of learning to play a sort of musical instrument after years of practice with a very different one. Trying to use all the elements is like trying to be one of those One Man Bands.

However, I think certain elements would be easier to mix together. For example, lightning and fire are both applications of energy, so perhaps the mindset is easier to get into. Similarly, a water mage could probably become an Ice mage with not too much trouble. Perhaps, for human mages at least, who usually don't develop magic along elemental natural lines like predators and other inhabitants of the wild, broader "Schools" of magic would be more useful - i.e. a school dealing with energy, so with stuff like lightning, fire, heat, light and such - perhaps another based on magic affecting living things, etc. etc.

Malahite wrote:

Furthermore, and I know this is a bit of a stretch what with the age of Anime & Comic Characters, but couldn't you have a Mage that, I 'unno, specializes in multiple fields but is a master of none?

*cough* Zion! *cough cough*

Anime-Junkie wrote:

I believe that the reason fairies are the only ones with size changing magic is this:
Fairies brains work very differently from pretty much every other creature’s brains. This difference is part of what allows them to use their size changing magic. If you were to somehow transplant a human’s brain into a fairy’s body, they wouldn’t be able to use the magic. This difference also accounts for some of the behaviour found in almost all fairies; their brain is wired that way. If you look in the rumours thread (I think it was there) there is a rumour of a special helmet artefact that causes the wearer to think like a fairy and also empowers them with magic to use the size changing magic. Of course, because it causes you to think like a fairy, you’re not going to be exactly the same person when you put it on.

It doesn't really have to be the entire brain. In fact, a fairy brain is probably 90% (or more) similar to a standard human brain. It depends on whether or not the size-changing is pure biology requiring a certain node or gland (like a snake's poison), or an instinctual knowledge (like monkeys and climbing). If it's knowledge, then it's not impossible for other races to learn, just very difficult.

As for predator sense, which was a concern at the beginning, it's pretty simple: the innate ability to detect the psychical impact all creatures make. In my model, all creatures are connected in an extradimensional network, similar to an "Internet of minds". The energy generated by thought and other brain activity can be manifested or detected by those with the ability or knowledge. Mages would have a particular resonance, as their bodies and minds would be filled with more active "magical" energies. Skilled psychics can gain a lot of information about an individual just by remotely sensing their various auras: after all, living creatures in real life have multiple auras (thermal, biochemical, electromagnetic, etc.), so it stands to reason that various other energies and properties would leave readable auras.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

I don't think he meant we need fire dryads. You're right in that fire would be directly contradictory to a dryad's nature. What he's trying to say is that it would be POSSIBLE, not that it would be smart.

Why should it be possible? Some animals are able to lose and regenerate limbs, but if a human randomly developed an ability like that they'd die because our bodies aren't designed for it. Unless you turn magic into The Force, (AKA, whatever a mediocre writer wants to pull out of their ass) Dryads who had fire affinities would at best be useless and at worst kill themselves and everything around them. Both of which lower/obliterate their chance to reproduce and pass on their bad genes.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Well then, call me a mechanic, 'cause here I go to dislodge that damn spanner. They're NOT the living embodiments of elements. Saying that fire is sentient is pretty, well, dumb. Rather, one can suppose that it is an immaterial consciousness bound to a material form (huh, how convenient, I wrote a story with one of those in it). Once again, I go back to my "solid, liquid, gas, fire" argument: since water is the most common homogenous liquid, it serves to say that 99.99% of all "elementals" that choose/require binding with a liquid form would go with water. Same with earth, and air. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the wiki says:

Quote :

Elementals can be roughly defined as spirits inhabiting nonliving matter, though they are infinitely more complex than that. For example, a water elemental isn't just moving water with a mind of its own! Once the matter is possessed by an elemental, it becomes the body of the creature and forms complex organs just like in a regular organic creature's body.

So basically, it is an immaterial intelligence that binds to a material form. Exactly as I said. They're not "living embodiments of the elements", they're simply creatures that make the "elements" their own bodies.

Then why are they called 'Elementals'? Because the people who discovered them, studied them, categorized them and the Elementals themselves are too stupid to know basic science? If magic was all the same type and only depended on what the user chose to do, mages and scientists would have to be functionally retarded not to figure it out. And when they inevitably did figure it out, Magic would become incredibly overpowered, with people being able to split atoms and whatever they wanted en masse.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

That depends. Some of us actually think that the concept of "LOLz, I can do whatever I want 'cause it's magic" shouldn't fly. Call it "neutering", and we'll call it "rationalizing". I'm not saying every mage needs to give a big, long lecture about their abilities. All I'm saying is that a GOOD writer would take logical and rational concepts into mind when they're figuring out what a mage would do, what spells would counter what, and the other finer points of magic. You can say that the magic is lost, I simply say that it makes the magic all the more real.

Whenever you try to rationalize the unrational it turns to shit. It's basically forbidden here to talk about how giant predators shouldn't be able to move, breathe or anything else because it isn't possible and suspension of disbelief, while very useful and important, has a delicate balance. If you say that magic has to have some long, wanky summary but you're a nit picker if you ask about the giant airborne Harpies, it's insanely irritating and hypocrtical.

Jew wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

I don't think he meant we need fire dryads. You're right in that fire would be directly contradictory to a dryad's nature. What he's trying to say is that it would be POSSIBLE, not that it would be smart.

Why should it be possible? Some animals are able to lose and regenerate limbs, but if a human randomly developed an ability like that they'd die because our bodies aren't designed for it. Unless you turn magic into The Force, (AKA, whatever a mediocre writer wants to pull out of their ass) Dryads who had fire affinities would at best be useless and at worst kill themselves and everything around them. Both of which lower/obliterate their chance to reproduce and pass on their bad genes.

You're not getting it, we just used a ridicuous example to prove a point.

Jew wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Well then, call me a mechanic, 'cause here I go to dislodge that damn spanner. They're NOT the living embodiments of elements. Saying that fire is sentient is pretty, well, dumb. Rather, one can suppose that it is an immaterial consciousness bound to a material form (huh, how convenient, I wrote a story with one of those in it). Once again, I go back to my "solid, liquid, gas, fire" argument: since water is the most common homogenous liquid, it serves to say that 99.99% of all "elementals" that choose/require binding with a liquid form would go with water. Same with earth, and air. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the wiki says:

Quote :

Elementals can be roughly defined as spirits inhabiting nonliving matter, though they are infinitely more complex than that. For example, a water elemental isn't just moving water with a mind of its own! Once the matter is possessed by an elemental, it becomes the body of the creature and forms complex organs just like in a regular organic creature's body.

So basically, it is an immaterial intelligence that binds to a material form. Exactly as I said. They're not "living embodiments of the elements", they're simply creatures that make the "elements" their own bodies.

Then why are they called 'Elementals'? Because the people who discovered them, studied them, categorized them and the Elementals themselves are too stupid to know basic science?

I have seen the word "elemental" cover vastly different things. Just because it doesn't conform to your definition of 'elemental' doesn't mean it's wrong.

Jew wrote:

If magic was all the same type and only depended on what the user chose to do, mages and scientists would have to be functionally retarded not to figure it out. And when they inevitably did figure it out, Magic would become incredibly overpowered, with people being able to split atoms and whatever they wanted en masse.

Which is why were not having that.

Jew wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

That depends. Some of us actually think that the concept of "LOLz, I can do whatever I want 'cause it's magic" shouldn't fly. Call it "neutering", and we'll call it "rationalizing". I'm not saying every mage needs to give a big, long lecture about their abilities. All I'm saying is that a GOOD writer would take logical and rational concepts into mind when they're figuring out what a mage would do, what spells would counter what, and the other finer points of magic. You can say that the magic is lost, I simply say that it makes the magic all the more real.

Whenever you try to rationalize the unrational it turns to shit. It's basically forbidden here to talk about how giant predators shouldn't be able to move, breathe or anything else because it isn't possible and suspension of disbelief, while very useful and important, has a delicate balance. If you say that magic has to have some long, wanky summary but you're a nit picker if you ask about the giant airborne Harpies, it's insanely irritating and hypocrtical.

It's not unrational. Unrational is not a word. It's not even irrational, I've seen some quite good magic rationalisations.
When you have something like Felarya ground rules need to be set to keep continuity.
To me, you sound like you take Falconjudge's view of magic. That is that magic is something not to be delved into at all and be used as a general handwave.
My response to falcon can be found here and I'd have to say it's still my response to anyone who thinks magic should be a handwave.

Jew wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

I don't think he meant we need fire dryads. You're right in that fire would be directly contradictory to a dryad's nature. What he's trying to say is that it would be POSSIBLE, not that it would be smart.

Why should it be possible? Some animals are able to lose and regenerate limbs, but if a human randomly developed an ability like that they'd die because our bodies aren't designed for it. Unless you turn magic into The Force, (AKA, whatever a mediocre writer wants to pull out of their ass) Dryads who had fire affinities would at best be useless and at worst kill themselves and everything around them. Both of which lower/obliterate their chance to reproduce and pass on their bad genes.

I'll try to justify this just because you seem to still be insisting it isn't possible. It's just improbable.

Just because a dryad has a fire affinity doesn't mean they're actually going to wield fire. I personally think that having an affinity towards something will also give them a slightly higher resistance to said affinity, as is done in a lot of systems involving "Elemental" magic. A dryad with a higher resistance to fire would be beneficial.

And I side with Anime-Junkie on the matter of magic being a handwave. Science and technology is one method of explaining and manipulating the world around you. Magic is another that is far different in the way it explains and manipulates things. They are two different schools of thought, both of which can have either very similar or vastly differing goals.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. And any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

Stabs : Actually while those are interesting suppositions on your original post, they are quite wrong ^^;

- The predator sense : No questions of radioactivity here. Wizards are generally more easy to detect because they carry more magic in them and stick out more than a regular human or a Kowo cat for example
- Subeta not shrinking : She didn't even try because shrinking herself and fyling away leaving Crisis behind wasn't really an option...
- Subeta managing to shrink the Tonorion. She launched her magic on instinct, in an act of despairation. Normally she would never has been able to do it, but something allowed her to do so. But that one is a plot point ^^

On the general subject, I'm not really sure magic should have rules engraved in iron.. We must keep in mind that the world itself is not really a realistic one, and, in my opinion, shouldn't try too hard to be. After all having 100 feet tall humanoid moving around is very difficult to explain to start with. I'm naturally bad at physics and mathematics but even I do recognize that fact ^^;

For the element thing , as I see it, naturaly affinities do exist in certain individuals, but I don't think a being with an affinity for one should be absolutely forbidden to learn others as well. It's just that it would be very difficult and maybe not very worth it in the end.
In that regard, that fire Dryad example is a nice one : the concept itself is of course silly and would be incredibly difficult for the dryad in question( as her whole being would revolt agaisnt making things burn, her mindset would not be ideally set up for it, and other dryads would be horrified at the idea as well and do they utmost to dissuade her ). But *materially* it could be possible if she had someone to teach her I think.

Karbo wrote:

On the general subject, I'm not really sure magic should have rules engraved in iron.. We must keep in mind that the world itself is not really a realistic one, and, in my opinion, shouldn't try too hard to be. After all having 100 feet tall humanoid moving around is very difficult to explain to start with. I'm naturally bad at physics and mathematics but even I do recognize that fact ^^;

For the element thing , as I see it, naturaly affinities do exist in certain individuals, but I don't think a being with an affinity for one should be absolutely forbidden to learn others as well. It's just that it would be very difficult and maybe not very worth it in the end.
In that regard, that fire Dryad example is a nice one : the concept itself is of course silly and would be incredibly difficult for the dryad in question( as her whole being would revolt agaisnt making things burn, her mindset would not be ideally set up for it, and other dryads would be horrified at the idea as well and do they utmost to dissuade her ). But *materially* it could be possible if she had someone to teach her I think.

I'm happy with this. Still, I would expect predators to be more likely to have a higher likelihood of having complementary affinities, just because it might give them that much more of an edge.

Also AJ darling, while it is nice you're so passionate about stuff you care about, quoting an old post you made to another person last year comes off as looking a teeeeeny bit lazy. And not everyone who disagrees is the same. Just something to think about.