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 Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?

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Malahite
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PostSubject: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:56 pm

Just a general Felarya question, but wouldn't - predominantly - it be Elves and Nekos (of the predominantly small races) that were slavers? Not humans? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all humans would be abolitionists or that all Nekos / Elves Slavers. But it would make more sense - if looking at a single / predominant race - for Nekos and Elves to be the slavers.

Think about it for a moment for each faction. With Elves, the humans are numerically superior, can reproduce faster, and are less long-lived than Elves. An Elf would require less resources over time sustaining a human worker than they would an Elf. Furthermore, while it breaks into stereotypes, humans are often slightly hardier (at least in terms of durability / continuous work) and worse at magic: They could be worked longer, and the Elvish population could practice magic to keep them from revolting.

Meanwhile, for Nekos there's a few advantages they would have. Again, Humans are still on-average superior in numbers - while they may not live longer, they can still be replaced relatively easily. Furthermore, with reduced biological function, a human should require less food. Expanded upon the food, a Human would take zero delicacies (Neera / Tiny, as well as the typical catnip-schtick people use) within their work that a Neko would desire. As with the Elves, Nekos are typically displayed as much more proficient in magic and the likes (as well as pretty much every other field) than another Human, which once more leads to them being able to police the work force into what they want to be done. Finally, unlike the Elves, the animosity does exist between species and Nekos realize that they're a delicacy towards Giant Predators: Why not pay off the Predator with a constant stream of decent snacks instead of having to sacrifice a lesser number (albeit of your own species) of delicacy snacks?

It just seems to me that, barring the societies like the Miratans (which have the brawn to do such) or the Magiocrats of Negav (who have less need for such what with the security their city has as well as the danger of putting large numbers of people against their will in a place where you have your big defensive artifact), it'd make more sense to see Nekos & Elves as the typical enslavers as opposed to Humans. Heck, "Survival of the fittest" is often brought up for the Jungle Setting's predators to defend their actions, so wouldn't it even more support such with the more native species (Nekos) being the same way, and using their physical and talent superiorities?


EDIT: Of course, I ask this because humans seem to be the predominant [x] in a setting. They're the slavers, they're the Fairy Catchers, they're the exterminators. Wouldn't the extremely vain Elves (notorious for superiority complexes) or the more constantly plagued Nekos be more likely to behave in such behavior?
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:51 pm

I can see your argument with the elves and I agree totally there. Their superiority in some fields and general attitude would suggest Elves as the dominant slavers.

Nekos I find much harder to believe. I'm not sure its true that nekos are overall better at magic than humans - there have been many pretty skilled human mages. As for being a delicacy - I thought it was Elves that were a delicacy. Only some predators, most noticeably Crisis, are crazy for catgirls. Finally, there doesn't seem to be a place for Neko slavery - they live either in small communities were adding more people, especially people who might try to escape and cause a ruckus is a bad idea, or within Negav itself, where them owning slaves would be shot down quickly be the human majority.

So, yes, I can see Elven communities with powerful mages using humans as slaves - neko slavers I don't buy yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:21 pm

It's a bit pointless to say whose race will be a slavers because according to the society nekos can enslaved another nekos and Eleves can enslave another elves. It can happen to the most advanced race or the small tribe. It's more a matter how the slavers perceive themselves and their slaves. Slavery is more cultural and economics than a matter of race. The need of manpower can push any civilized nation no matter the race to do that.


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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:59 pm

Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:17 pm

I agree with Jaette, really.

Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.
Huh... so... slavery bothers you, but the constant murder of millions of sapient beings doesn't bother you a bit. Huh... funny how that works.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:40 pm

Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.

Wat. How do those things connect?
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:55 pm

I hold some odd double standard against the denizens of Felarya; I'm willing to turn a blind eye if one of the fictional characters get killed/eaten/tortured/backstabbed/enslaved for some reason. o__o;

That being said, I'm going to also have to agree with JT. I always thought it was humans who acted superior to nekos despite how either being is built to survive in the wilderness.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:14 pm

The thing is, that's how the humans are often portrayed. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Nekos to be? It might just be me, but it seems like a lot of the time Humans are straight-up vilified simply to make the plot easier: Neko character needs an evil human to drive them into [x] Predator's arms, [y] Giant Predator needs an evil human settlement to justify a trio of them starting an eating orgy without feeling any sympathy for the humans, the Elves attack [z] human settlement as they're enslaving people left and right / cutting off fairy wings for giggles, and so on.

BTW, my magic statement wasn't brought up as in "Magical mind control" slaves (nothing like an Illithid society), and more a "You do what we say or we'll roast you like pigs. You're cheap, and our magic is cheaper."

It just seems to me that a lot of times people make Humans the villains / main people to do bad things not because we do in this world, but just out of laziness. We aren't the slavers because we need the labor, or because we could particularly make use of the labor force, but just 'cause of some mandate that seemingly no-one else has thought of. Even though these are the stories written by the same people where a Giant Predator can go "I caught you, I have every right to eat you." Just a bit of a double standard that Giant Predators can go "We're better, we do what we want," but either:
A) We're to assume that none of the other races do such.
B) We're to assume they do it, but we only let it slide for the Giant Predators.

Nekos I didn't mean to imply feel themselves superior: I was pointing out that - physically and, often times, skill-wise (See: depends on story) - they are superior, so watching a few dozen people with clubs and nets somehow take out a village of a hundred Nekos with swords and spears just seems like it was made to have them roll over and inevitably show how nasty the humans are. Wouldn't it, I 'unno, be the other way around? Nekos ambush human settlement, use superior strength and agility to take large numbers of them, make use of labor force that would require a magical / technological superiority to be successful in a typical revolt?
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:07 pm

Malahite wrote:
The thing is, that's how the humans are often portrayed. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Nekos to be? It might just be me, but it seems like a lot of the time Humans are straight-up vilified simply to make the plot easier: Neko character needs an evil human to drive them into [x] Predator's arms, [y] Giant Predator needs an evil human settlement to justify a trio of them starting an eating orgy without feeling any sympathy for the humans, the Elves attack [z] human settlement as they're enslaving people left and right / cutting off fairy wings for giggles, and so on.

BTW, my magic statement wasn't brought up as in "Magical mind control" slaves (nothing like an Illithid society), and more a "You do what we say or we'll roast you like pigs. You're cheap, and our magic is cheaper."

It just seems to me that a lot of times people make Humans the villains / main people to do bad things not because we do in this world, but just out of laziness. We aren't the slavers because we need the labor, or because we could particularly make use of the labor force, but just 'cause of some mandate that seemingly no-one else has thought of. Even though these are the stories written by the same people where a Giant Predator can go "I caught you, I have every right to eat you." Just a bit of a double standard that Giant Predators can go "We're better, we do what we want," but either:
A) We're to assume that none of the other races do such.
B) We're to assume they do it, but we only let it slide for the Giant Predators.

Nekos I didn't mean to imply feel themselves superior: I was pointing out that - physically and, often times, skill-wise (See: depends on story) - they are superior, so watching a few dozen people with clubs and nets somehow take out a village of a hundred Nekos with swords and spears just seems like it was made to have them roll over and inevitably show how nasty the humans are. Wouldn't it, I 'unno, be the other way around? Nekos ambush human settlement, use superior strength and agility to take large numbers of them, make use of labor force that would require a magical / technological superiority to be successful in a typical revolt?

I agree with most of this, except for the fact that Nekos are physically superior than human beings. While they might be more agile, and faster, as befitting their feline nature, they are also likely to lack the raw upper body strength and overall toughness of a human being (who are the apefolk to the neko's catfolk.) Human beings would definitely have more endurance than nekos. Cats tire out notoriously quickly, while a physically fit human possesses an extraordinarily high amount of stamina when compared to the rest of the animal kingdom.

As for Elves, I've always regarded them as the number one per capita slavers in Felarya. Their elves, stealing children is what they do!
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:18 pm

Well, as for technological and magical superiority that humans would need in order to have a revolt - yes, they do have that. It seems to be pretty well established that neko settlements outside of Negav are fairly low tech compared to human outposts. And human mages seem to be pretty proficient, at least the Felaryan bred ones.

As for labour force I see no reason humans wouldn't need the labour. Why do dangerous jobs on a dangerous planet when you can get someone else to do it? There's always need for people to gather fruit, mine stuff, work stuff. I would imagine that rich people in Negav would be happy to deal in neko slaves simply due to the fact that you don't have to pay slaves money.

This argument aside, many of these slavers may be from off world. If you are coming to Felarya to collect slaves, on first glance the primitive nekos would seem to be the best bet. Even if not

You seem to assume that nekos are somehow technologically or magically superior, when all we've seem appears to point in the opposite direction.

Moreso, there is the large cultural factor. Regardless of other worlds with nekos and humans, on Felarya there seems to be a large history of humans ruling over nekos. Many humans would assume them to be superior. Nekos probably are simply appalled by the idea of slavery - why would they copy what they hate?
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:23 am

I think any race should have the potential to enslave another. I wouldn't be surprised if some clever giant naga kept a few trapped humans around to do things like scout for other prey, maybe keep a singer or artist captive for amusement if they were fond of that sort of thing, stuff like that. I once read this story where this naga gets given this weirdo evil slave-keeping bracelet or something and her and all her friends are horrified at even the thought of enslaving any person, regardless of the fact that they all gulp down dozens of innocent randoms every day. That's just nonsensical IMO, if one species considers another to be little more than a tasty animal, they certainly wouldn't get weepy at the thought of keeping a 'pet' or two. I mean, people sometimes keep chickens or sheep as pets while still buying meat.

Also, don't take this the wrong way but I really hope slavery doesn't get used exclusively to give characters a SAD PAST or make the slaver seem like the evilest spawn under the sun. Just about every RL culture has done plenty of it at some point - America, Europe, the Carribean, and probably the longest lasting civilisation, the Egyptians. It's stupid and offensive to portray a master/slave relationship as positive (like in that shitty Song of the South film) but having literal baby-eaters being the goodies while slavers are the baddies just reeks of using a controversial subject that triggers an automatic response instead of bothering to write something decent and original.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:52 am

Gah, this is what I get when I sleep all day, I miss out on awesome discussions.
Anyway, Time for me to put in my thoughts. I like the idea here.

Jew wrote:
maybe keep a singer or artist captive for amusement if they were fond of that sort of thing
I would not be surprised to see that happen, it's likely.

JohnDoe wrote:
I agree with most of this, except for the fact that Nekos are physically superior than human beings. While they might be more agile, and faster, as befitting their feline nature, they are also likely to lack the raw upper body strength and overall toughness of a human being (who are the apefolk to the neko's catfolk.) Human beings would definitely have more endurance than nekos. Cats tire out notoriously quickly, while a physically fit human possesses an extraordinarily high amount of stamina when compared to the rest of the animal kingdom.
An interesting an valid point. This should be in the wiki.

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Nekos I find much harder to believe. I'm not sure its true that nekos are overall better at magic than humans - there have been many pretty skilled human mages. As for being a delicacy - I thought it was Elves that were a delicacy. Only some predators, most noticeably Crisis, are crazy for catgirls. Finally, there doesn't seem to be a place for Neko slavery - they live either in small communities were adding more people, especially people who might try to escape and cause a ruckus is a bad idea, or within Negav itself, where them owning slaves would be shot down quickly be the human majority.
Agreed. Nekos are not a delicacy, there are some predators that greatly enjoy them, but for the most part elves are the prized prey.

Summing this up, nekos probably could take slaves, as while they are not physically stronger than a fit human, they are quicker and can therefore get the knockout blow in faster. They wouldn't because there is no driving need. Nekos live in small communities and it's probable that having a bunch of humans stomping around would just get in their way and annoy them.

As for elves, I agree that elves would be slavers, they have the mindset, the magic and the motivation.
The mindset, elves view the other races as inferior, so it's a short and easy step to thinking that they should have the inferior races working for them. Elves are also lethargic. If they can haves someone else do it, why would they do it themselves? Not to mention that I'm sure quite a few of them would enjoy having some of the inferior race around where they can kick them. The magic is obvious, elves have better magic than humans, much more elves are proficient at magic than humans. Living longer gives them more time to learn the complex spells.
For the motivation, elves live in large enough settlements that having a free, cheap labour force would be beneficial to them and their economy. Also as I mention in mindset the lethargy comes into it, there is motivation for them to get slaves so they don't have to do things themselves.
Also for their ability, elves have heightened vision and hearing as well as lightning quick reflexes. This, along with their magic would enable them to take slaves easily, as their senses would easily be able to detect any escaping humans once they started a raid.

One more word in for the nekos, elves might use nekos to take human slaves, as the nekos superior speed would be great in catching fleeing humans and their natural jungle abilities and heightens sense of smell would make them great scouts.
That said, I doubt that elves would take too many neko slaves, as they require more food, can't do as much work and have better senses, agility and short distance speed than a human, making them much harder to keep in line. They'd probably have to keep their claws trimmed too, something that the elf slavers would have to do themselves. Something that involves getting up close to an inferior race. With humans they can keep them at a distance with magic and whips.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:33 am

Jew wrote:
I think any race should have the potential to enslave another.



^ This. See:

Spoiler:
 


Slavery is not oppression via chain gangs with downtrodden unfortunates hammering and chipping away in someone's mines or harvesting someone's fields. This is the propaganda used to promote the 'evil' side of servitude. There are many faces and definitions of slavery, and Felarya already has some facets of it applied in the more realistic fashion (see above). The slaves aren't even necessarily going to know that there is a 'better' life for them, or that at one time they had a different life, and depending on their level of knowledge and exposure, they might feel that their existence as slaves/servants is better than that of a 'free' creature. In some cases the slaves may have willingly partaken the role, such as in the case of retainers.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:27 am

aethernavale wrote:
Jew wrote:
I think any race should have the potential to enslave another.



^ This. See:

Spoiler:
 


Slavery is not oppression via chain gangs with downtrodden unfortunates hammering and chipping away in someone's mines or harvesting someone's fields. This is the propaganda used to promote the 'evil' side of servitude. There are many faces and definitions of slavery, and Felarya already has some facets of it applied in the more realistic fashion (see above). The slaves aren't even necessarily going to know that there is a 'better' life for them, or that at one time they had a different life, and depending on their level of knowledge and exposure, they might feel that their existence as slaves/servants is better than that of a 'free' creature. In some cases the slaves may have willingly partaken the role, such as in the case of retainers.
This is also true, as anyone who has read 'Small Gods' by Terry Pratchett might agree.
(Ephebian slaves have a day off every week and 3 months "running away" every year. They always come back).
So, long running slave societies would probably have "willing slaves."
For example, long established elf settlement built on slavery. Now taht the settlement is established slaves aren't worked quite so hard, they are allowed to reproduce to increase the labour base, but the children are educated to view their masters as superior and that it is an honour to serve them and by serving them they gain the protection of the elf magic. (Which is true, if the elves protect their settlement they protect the inhabitants, which includes the slaves).
(I know this has already been mentioned): is also possible for elves to use human slaves as bargaining chips with predators either in a slave society like I described above or in a more "cruel" one like I touched upon in my previous post. In the former, either slaves would be randomly selected when needed or there would be a separate slave pool for exchanged with predators. In the latter, well it's obvious how things would be carried out.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:02 am

On the subject of willing slaves, I reckon it would be easy to set that up. A big group of people, whether human or elf or whatever could set up a fairly safe town or city, and offer people citizenship in exchange for lifetime, or at least a very long period of servitude. That would mean that the slaves would have the option to choose what job they'd be best at, from things like farming, cooking, guard duty etc, and the bosses wouldn't really have to worry about them running away, since they wouldn't last long in the wilderness. A raw sort of deal, but probably worth it if it stops you being eaten.

I really couldn't feel anything other than revulsion for any society that sacrificed innocent people to predators for convenience, though. Far too similar to the Romans and their brutal gladiator fights, or even worse, the slave boats from Africa that dropped people over the side because they hadn't brought enough food to feed them all. A society that keeps people as cheap workers is greedy, but one that murders those people to keep themselves safe is chilling.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:41 am

ZionAtriedes wrote:
I agree with Jaette, really.

Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.
Huh... so... slavery bothers you, but the constant murder of millions of sapient beings doesn't bother you a bit. Huh... funny how that works.

Yeah, I have that kind of logic. Go figure. Slavery irks me in a way that being eaten doesn't.

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.

Wat. How do those things connect?

Well, I already see magic as a large part of Negav's government and not to mention it being used by a wide variety of predators. I'm really not into the idea of slavers using magic too to keep people in chains. It's starting to become way too commonplace.

Next up people will start saying Vivian uses magic to lure people to her home, Anko uses magic to make people slip off her bridge, trees use magic to make oxygen, etc. It'll be one big excuse used by every person in Felarya.

Surely we could spare some room for slavers that use good old fashioned whips or trained kensha, can't we? It would be a little more original IMO.


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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:44 am

JohnDoe wrote:
I agree with most of this, except for the fact that Nekos are physically superior than human beings. While they might be more agile, and faster, as befitting their feline nature, they are also likely to lack the raw upper body strength and overall toughness of a human being (who are the apefolk to the neko's catfolk.)
I read the wiki and it states that nekos are typically physically stronger than humans. It didn't go in enough details to specify if they are more durable or have more stamina. For the sake of fairness, most of my nekos are frailer than humans.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:12 am

Jew wrote:
On the subject of willing slaves, I reckon it would be easy to set that up. A big group of people, whether human or elf or whatever could set up a fairly safe town or city, and offer people citizenship in exchange for lifetime, or at least a very long period of servitude. That would mean that the slaves would have the option to choose what job they'd be best at, from things like farming, cooking, guard duty etc, and the bosses wouldn't really have to worry about them running away, since they wouldn't last long in the wilderness. A raw sort of deal, but probably worth it if it stops you being eaten.

I really couldn't feel anything other than revulsion for any society that sacrificed innocent people to predators for convenience, though. Far too similar to the Romans and their brutal gladiator fights, or even worse, the slave boats from Africa that dropped people over the side because they hadn't brought enough food to feed them all. A society that keeps people as cheap workers is greedy,
Or lazy, both work.
Jew wrote:
but one that murders those people to keep themselves safe is chilling.
It's horrible, but chilling not so much to me? It's been done before on Earth.
Anyway I said it was possible, not that it would be done. But I don't doubt that it could be. It's logical, if extremely cold blooded.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:56 am

Pendragon wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
I agree with Jaette, really.

Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.
Huh... so... slavery bothers you, but the constant murder of millions of sapient beings doesn't bother you a bit. Huh... funny how that works.

Yeah, I have that kind of logic. Go figure. Slavery irks me in a way that being eaten doesn't.

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.

Wat. How do those things connect?

Well, I already see magic as a large part of Negav's government and not to mention it being used by a wide variety of predators. I'm really not into the idea of slavers using magic too to keep people in chains. It's starting to become way too commonplace.

Next up people will start saying Vivian uses magic to lure people to her home, Anko uses magic to make people slip off her bridge, trees use magic to make oxygen, etc. It'll be one big excuse used by every person in Felarya.

Surely we could spare some room for slavers that use good old fashioned whips or trained kensha, can't we? It would be a little more original IMO.

Wait, using the classic method of slavery that one would expect is more original? You just used "Good old fashioned" and "original" to describe the same thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:48 am

JohnDoe wrote:
Cats tire out notoriously quickly, while a physically fit human possesses an extraordinarily high amount of stamina when compared to the rest of the animal kingdom.
I just want to point out that a lot of people don't realize this. Since most people nowadays are very out of shape, they neglect to notice how much our bodies are built for sustained running. But yes, a truly fit human can run for miles, even if we aren't as good at sprinting as a cat.

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Moreso, there is the large cultural factor. Regardless of other worlds with nekos and humans, on Felarya there seems to be a large history of humans ruling over nekos. Many humans would assume them to be superior. Nekos probably are simply appalled by the idea of slavery - why would they copy what they hate?
The oppressed will often rise up to commit the same crimes against their oppressors that were incurred upon them. This, after years, will repeat itself. That is the cycle of oppression. (Paraphrased from a Bene Gesserit teaching.)

As for the slavery, we also have to remember that Felarya is a world of contrasting societies. Many of them have remembered origins elsewhere, and some came to Felarya very recently. Many are still in touch with their heritage and roots, while some have adapted to Felarya in order to survive. I think it's impossible to say "this race would be slavers, or this one would be", since you can't really make any catch-all statement when it comes to Felarya. There could be human slavers with devices that resembles Mesmetrons from Fallout 3, elves who terrorize simple villagers with powerful magic, or nekos who use cunning to prey on others. It depends on the author, really.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:29 pm

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Pendragon wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
I agree with Jaette, really.

Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.
Huh... so... slavery bothers you, but the constant murder of millions of sapient beings doesn't bother you a bit. Huh... funny how that works.

Yeah, I have that kind of logic. Go figure. Slavery irks me in a way that being eaten doesn't.

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Pendragon wrote:
Again, I don't like the thought of another race using magic to keep another enslaved. It just really irks me, considering the magiocrats already use it to keep the Negavites safe and under their jurisdiction.

Wat. How do those things connect?

Well, I already see magic as a large part of Negav's government and not to mention it being used by a wide variety of predators. I'm really not into the idea of slavers using magic too to keep people in chains. It's starting to become way too commonplace.

Next up people will start saying Vivian uses magic to lure people to her home, Anko uses magic to make people slip off her bridge, trees use magic to make oxygen, etc. It'll be one big excuse used by every person in Felarya.

Surely we could spare some room for slavers that use good old fashioned whips or trained kensha, can't we? It would be a little more original IMO.

Wait, using the classic method of slavery that one would expect is more original? You just used "Good old fashioned" and "original" to describe the same thing.

It's basically a reverse of reversing the formula. What replaced the old has become cliche and too commonplace, and going back to a classic would actually be a change of pace.

Much like how movies have become styled to putting out dark and grim endings to subvert happy endings, and movies with happy endings are actually putting more effort into it.

I dunno. Regardless, if we have some magic using slavers, don't make them all magic users. Try to have some variety is all I'm suggesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:25 pm

[quote="ZionAtriedes"]
JohnDoe wrote:
The oppressed will often rise up to commit the same crimes against their oppressors that were incurred upon them. This, after years, will repeat itself. That is the cycle of oppression. (Paraphrased from a Bene Gesserit teaching.)

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I can't actually remember a single large-scale slave rebellion that turned a society around. Egypt always had its slaves in all of its three-thousand year long reign. Rome wasn't sacked because the slaves rebelled. When people write stories about slaves, they generally write the slaves as if they were normal people who longed for freedom as much as any 'true American', and who'd jump at the chance to escape and punish their masters. Although that's all good and noble, people treated as though they're inferior tend to end up believing it, or accepting it, or just wanting to stay out of trouble.

I do agree with Pendragon's thoughts on magic though, it'd be boring if all the slavers were magic-users. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:06 pm

[quote="Jew"]
ZionAtriedes wrote:
JohnDoe wrote:
The oppressed will often rise up to commit the same crimes against their oppressors that were incurred upon them. This, after years, will repeat itself. That is the cycle of oppression. (Paraphrased from a Bene Gesserit teaching.)

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I can't actually remember a single large-scale slave rebellion that turned a society around. Egypt always had its slaves in all of its three-thousand year long reign. Rome wasn't sacked because the slaves rebelled. When people write stories about slaves, they generally write the slaves as if they were normal people who longed for freedom as much as any 'true American', and who'd jump at the chance to escape and punish their masters. Although that's all good and noble, people treated as though they're inferior tend to end up believing it, or accepting it, or just wanting to stay out of trouble.

I do agree with Pendragon's thoughts on magic though, it'd be boring if all the slavers were magic-users. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat.

No, but slaves often, with the right leadership, do provide some amount of trouble. Rome weakened because it depended on a slave economy. The American South relied on a slave economy, which was plagued with small scale insurrections, courtesy of folks like John Brown, and massive amounts of non-confrontational rebellion - i.e. the rise in escaping slaves.

While it is true that a totally slave led rebellion has never changed society, slave resistance has proven to be a major problem for many powerful empires.

But, we're on Felaryan slaves here, where there are no real empires or countries to speak of. On a small scale, slave revolts could be possible - but would most likely need an effort from an outside source beyond whatever means the slavers enforce their law.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:12 am

Jętte_Troll wrote:


No, but slaves often, with the right leadership, do provide some amount of trouble. Rome weakened because it depended on a slave economy. The American South relied on a slave economy, which was plagued with small scale insurrections, courtesy of folks like John Brown, and massive amounts of non-confrontational rebellion - i.e. the rise in escaping slaves.

While it is true that a totally slave led rebellion has never changed society, slave resistance has proven to be a major problem for many powerful empires.

But, we're on Felaryan slaves here, where there are no real empires or countries to speak of. On a small scale, slave revolts could be possible - but would most likely need an effort from an outside source beyond whatever means the slavers enforce their law.
The common point between your two examples was the fact slavery was mostly used in agriculture where manpower was important, the slaves who were working in the field were always maltreated and overexploited. In Roma Empire slave who are used as servant who work in their master house had better condition and has better chance to gain back their liberty, so few rebelled. There is a link between the condition of the slave and his rebellion, a slave doing the hardest work and suffer with a bad treatment from his master will rebel against him. But it doesn't stop civilization to develop slavery in different forms and using different methods to prevent rebellions and escapades like the death camps located in isolated and remote place in harsh environments like deserts or cold region where no ones knows you are here and even if you try to evade, you will have to face the environment with few or no resource knowing the next human settlement is at many miles away.
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PostSubject: Re: Felarya: Would Nekos & Elves be the Slavers?   Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:55 am

Jew wrote:
I'm going to have to disagree with this. I can't actually remember a single large-scale slave rebellion that turned a society around.
I never said it required a single explosive rebellion. Look at what's happening in America: Caucasian males are becoming increasingly demonized in popular society, and are under massive amounts of scrutiny for any statements that would be perfectly acceptable out of the mouth of another. Slowly, surely, I believe that unless we finally understand the concept of harmonious equality, we will find ourselves second-class citizens. I'm not saying slavery, but there will be a subtle form of oppression.

Simply put, people don't just say "hey, we're free, now let's be equals". They say "hey, we're free, and now you're OUR bitches".

Of course, that's involving real-world politics, and I know I'm going to come under a firestorm of criticism for that (which, depending on what is said, may actually prove me right).
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