Felarya

Felarya forum
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 What counts as a disease?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4527
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: What counts as a disease?   Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:46 pm

This has been bugging me for quite a while actually. We all know the Felaryan soil heal wounds and cure diseases upon contact. However, what exactly is considered a disease or not in Felarya? I think a lot of people would say any form of infection or something similar. However, in the world of Real Life, diseases tend to be more complicated than this, such as genetic diseases.

This is something that has been irking me a bit about the wiki: so many things are rather vague and can be interpreted in so many different ways. Which, in my opinion, is one of the major causes of inconsistency between writers about the aspects of the world.

So, people of the forum, let the argument about what is or isn't considered a disease and as such, would be cured when you step on Felaryan ground.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
tkh1304
Temple scourge
Temple scourge
avatar

Posts : 747
Join date : 2010-02-18
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:25 pm

Have another question about how Felarya's magic soil affects on some illness too.

You know, people's organs tend to be suffer if they smoke or drink too much alcohol, leading to many disorder such as cancer... But Felarya's healing soil can make the cell regen faster <- Is it enough to nullify the bad effects of smoking and drinking?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://tkh1304.deviantart.com
Pendragon
Grand Mecha Enthusiast
Grand Mecha Enthusiast
avatar

Posts : 3223
Join date : 2007-12-09

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:17 pm

Yeah, I remember that convo we had Sean.

Something like lactose intolerance, for instance. It technically isn't a disease, so would people still have it in Felarya?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Anime-Junkie
Loremaster
avatar

Posts : 2690
Join date : 2007-12-17
Age : 24
Location : The Country of Kangaroos and Criminal Scum

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:49 pm

tkh1304 wrote:
Have another question about how Felarya's magic soil affects on some illness too.

You know, people's organs tend to be suffer if they smoke or drink too much alcohol, leading to many disorder such as cancer... But Felarya's healing soil can make the cell regen faster <- Is it enough to nullify the bad effects of smoking and drinking?
I believe the answer is yes. It has been brought up before that in Felarya one can smoke as much as they like (as long as Anna isn't around) with no detrimental effects. Apart from the smell.
It might be possible to drink enough to surpass what the healing effect can do, but you'd have to drink a lot.
As for smoking; maybe if you were smoking cigars or cigarettes with really "dirty" tobacco.
Pendragon wrote:
Yeah, I remember that convo we had Sean.

Something like lactose intolerance, for instance. It technically isn't a disease, so would people still have it in Felarya?
Yes. It's not a disease since it's caused by the body not producing enough of the enzyme that breaks down lactose.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.Excelsior-Emeritus.deviantart.com
Malahite
Cog in the Machine
Cog in the Machine
avatar

Posts : 2433
Join date : 2007-12-12
Location : Old World

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:37 am

To my understanding, typical biological issues remain. For instance, technically regeneration would - depending on its type - allow someone on Felarya to eat nada and - if in likely horrible pain and barely so - remain alive indefinitely as you'd "technically" regenerate the damage caused to the cells from nutrient and energy depravation. Obviously, that's poppycock: You don't eat on Felarya, you starve. As such, there's limit to what the regeneration / resistances can cover.

Similarly, this brings up the "raw meat" thing: You can't really eat raw foods on Felarya (Well, Demi-Humans can't. Usually) even though there'd "seemingly" be no detrimental consequences from raw meat. It's just something you realize "Hey, this doesn't make much sense."

It's odd, however, as seemingly stuff like Diabetes and the like are "cured" in many peoples' stories: Indeed, a lot of people with "terminal" illness' are cured / stabilized upon stepping foot on Felarya. This ruins the theory I had of how things related to natural biological regulation / function (Nutrients, breathing, etcetera) is ignored, as some things are obviously still go (don't breathe, watch how much Felaryans suffering from strangulation don't die from such) while other things are nullified (how many Felaryans die from insufficient blood sugar as opposed to starving in general?).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4527
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:20 pm

Malahite wrote:
It's odd, however, as seemingly stuff like Diabetes and the like are "cured" in many peoples' stories: Indeed, a lot of people with "terminal" illness' are cured / stabilized upon stepping foot on Felarya. This ruins the theory I had of how things related to natural biological regulation / function (Nutrients, breathing, etcetera) is ignored, as some things are obviously still go (don't breathe, watch how much Felaryans suffering from strangulation don't die from such) while other things are nullified (how many Felaryans die from insufficient blood sugar as opposed to starving in general?).
That is exactly my point. A lot of the entries in the wiki are precise enough to tell you what the gist of it is, but they are still too vague as it can be interpreted in thousands of ways. Moving back to an old issue, the dreaded "Shrinking Limit". The wiki says that Fairies can't shrink if the creature is too big, too resistant to magic, or both. Okay, fair enough. But... what exactly is considered "too big"? What exactly is considered "too resistant"? Keep in mind, this is just to show an example of how vague a lot of the entries in the wiki is, I do NOT want to go through that dreaded debate again, nor do I wish to start it. So if you use this little example to get the thread off-topic... what is wrong with you? We use the wiki as a tool for reference and yet said reference can be interpreted in too many different ways, which create inconsistency.

But I digress. If Felarya's soil causes regeneration, does that mean that if a character suffered dismemberment, would its limb grow back eventually? Also, what about little defects? One of my character has asthma, which I think isn't a defect, but if Felarya's soil cause regeneration, wouldn't that mean that she would no longer have to worry about asthma attacks? Also, I can understand the soil curing infection-based diseases, but what about those people were born with? Are they cured as well? The wiki does say that the soil cures diseases upon contact (in Felarya at least), but diseases can be more complicated than things like scurvy, plague, flu.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
CauldronBorn24
Loremaster
avatar

Posts : 2508
Join date : 2009-05-20
Age : 30
Location : Where?

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:09 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Malahite wrote:
It's odd, however, as seemingly stuff like Diabetes and the like are "cured" in many peoples' stories: Indeed, a lot of people with "terminal" illness' are cured / stabilized upon stepping foot on Felarya. This ruins the theory I had of how things related to natural biological regulation / function (Nutrients, breathing, etcetera) is ignored, as some things are obviously still go (don't breathe, watch how much Felaryans suffering from strangulation don't die from such) while other things are nullified (how many Felaryans die from insufficient blood sugar as opposed to starving in general?).
That is exactly my point. A lot of the entries in the wiki are precise enough to tell you what the gist of it is, but they are still too vague as it can be interpreted in thousands of ways. Moving back to an old issue, the dreaded "Shrinking Limit". The wiki says that Fairies can't shrink if the creature is too big, too resistant to magic, or both. Okay, fair enough. But... what exactly is considered "too big"? What exactly is considered "too resistant"? Keep in mind, this is just to show an example of how vague a lot of the entries in the wiki is, I do NOT want to go through that dreaded debate again, nor do I wish to start it. So if you use this little example to get the thread off-topic... what is wrong with you? We use the wiki as a tool for reference and yet said reference can be interpreted in too many different ways, which create inconsistency.

But I digress. If Felarya's soil causes regeneration, does that mean that if a character suffered dismemberment, would its limb grow back eventually? Also, what about little defects? One of my character has asthma, which I think isn't a defect, but if Felarya's soil cause regeneration, wouldn't that mean that she would no longer have to worry about asthma attacks? Also, I can understand the soil curing infection-based diseases, but what about those people were born with? Are they cured as well? The wiki does say that the soil cures diseases upon contact (in Felarya at least), but diseases can be more complicated than things like scurvy, plague, flu.

It may create a lot of inconsistency however it can be a good thing considering that it gives writers a template while allowing them to more or less do express their own ideas. I suppose it all fits if one considers Felarya a land of lore rather than fact; each tale having its own differences.
I know form talking to /Fish/ that the soil has its limitations; for example if you have a wound in which you are haemorrhaging badly like a gunshot or other serious puncture you are going to bleed to death. Likewise if you lose a limb such as a leg or an arm it won’t grow back on its own; reattaching it may be easier however. Genetic defects where the cause is due to damaged or corrupted DNA would probably still manifest; like some cancers, yet I believe the soil will stop the effects from becoming crippling or spreading. It should also be possible for you to be cured if the damaged DNA is no longer prevalent. If the condition does not involve physical damage be it at the macro or cellular level; such as diabetes, I don't think the soil will have any effect. As asthma is an infection which narrows the air passages; it is possible that the soil would in fact prevent your character or anyone else from having serious asthma attacks; like the cancer, depending on the nature of the infection you may be cured. From what I understand about pathogens is that they exist in the environment however the body's immune system is boosted, combined with cellular replication, that harmful foreign bodies would be neutralised before they had time to take hold; so with a disease like the Spanish flu of 1919 where people died due to their own immune systems, on Felarya it wouldn't get to that stage as the virus/bacteria would be neutralised almost on the first encounter with a Lymphocyte cell. Should the immune system cause any collateral damage; as it is most likely cellular, the regenerative effects should be able to heal it without resulting in any serious problems. What I imagine the boosted immune system to be is the soil allows the creation and replication of antibodies to occur at a rate where any encountered foreign body is neutralised very quickly; of course you can't get something for nothing so a healthy diet would be required. Outside of the healing soil's effective range, the body would only be able to produce antibodies at its natural rate; allowing diseases to take hold.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4527
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:07 pm

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

It may create a lot of inconsistency however it can be a good thing considering that it gives writers a template while allowing them to more or less do express their own ideas. I suppose it all fits if one considers Felarya a land of lore rather than fact; each tale having its own differences.
I know form talking to /Fish/ that the soil has its limitations; for example if you have a wound in which you are haemorrhaging badly like a gunshot or other serious puncture you are going to bleed to death. Likewise if you lose a limb such as a leg or an arm it won’t grow back on its own; reattaching it may be easier however. Genetic defects where the cause is due to damaged or corrupted DNA would probably still manifest; like some cancers, yet I believe the soil will stop the effects from becoming crippling or spreading. It should also be possible for you to be cured if the damaged DNA is no longer prevalent. If the condition does not involve physical damage be it at the macro or cellular level; such as diabetes, I don't think the soil will have any effect. As asthma is an infection which narrows the air passages; it is possible that the soil would in fact prevent your character or anyone else from having serious asthma attacks; like the cancer, depending on the nature of the infection you may be cured. From what I understand about pathogens is that they exist in the environment however the body's immune system is boosted, combined with cellular replication, that harmful foreign bodies would be neutralised before they had time to take hold; so with a disease like the Spanish flu of 1919 where people died due to their own immune systems, on Felarya it wouldn't get to that stage as the virus/bacteria would be neutralised almost on the first encounter with a Lymphocyte cell. Should the immune system cause any collateral damage; as it is most likely cellular, the regenerative effects should be able to heal it without resulting in any serious problems. What I imagine the boosted immune system to be is the soil allows the creation and replication of antibodies to occur at a rate where any encountered foreign body is neutralised very quickly; of course you can't get something for nothing so a healthy diet would be required. Outside of the healing soil's effective range, the body would only be able to produce antibodies at its natural rate; allowing diseases to take hold.
I didn't get much because there were a bit too many words and not enough spaces, sorry. sweatdrop

Also, I don't trust Fish. I prefer that Karbo give us insight since he created the place, thus would know best.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
aethernavale
Great warrior
Great warrior


Posts : 501
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:34 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
That is exactly my point. A lot of the entries in the wiki are precise enough to tell you what the gist of it is, but they are still too vague as it can be interpreted in thousands of ways. Moving back to an old issue, the dreaded "Shrinking Limit". The wiki says that Fairies can't shrink if the creature is too big, too resistant to magic, or both. Okay, fair enough. But... what exactly is considered "too big"? What exactly is considered "too resistant"? Keep in mind, this is just to show an example of how vague a lot of the entries in the wiki is, I do NOT want to go through that dreaded debate again, nor do I wish to start it. So if you use this little example to get the thread off-topic... what is wrong with you? We use the wiki as a tool for reference and yet said reference can be interpreted in too many different ways, which create inconsistency.

But I digress. If Felarya's soil causes regeneration, does that mean that if a character suffered dismemberment, would its limb grow back eventually? Also, what about little defects? One of my character has asthma, which I think isn't a defect, but if Felarya's soil cause regeneration, wouldn't that mean that she would no longer have to worry about asthma attacks? Also, I can understand the soil curing infection-based diseases, but what about those people were born with? Are they cured as well? The wiki does say that the soil cures diseases upon contact (in Felarya at least), but diseases can be more complicated than things like scurvy, plague, flu.


There are two main causes of asthma. The first is airway constriction, the second is inflammation. Since the first is caused by your body choosing to do so through some fault, Felarya's soil would most likely be unable to help. The latter example however is a physical manifestation and would be capable of being cured. Most triggers for asthma are irritants in the air, that a person need not be allergic to in order to have an attack. Seeing as Felarya is still very wild, the amount of material in the air at any given time would be quite high so asthma attacks would be likely to occur.

However, lets be careful here. If you start defining things to be clear cut, black-and-white, you cut out a lot of use. I myself find that the best stories are the ones where not everything is explained. For one, trying to explain everything makes it tedious, and for another, I no longer get to use my imagination to plug in those holes. Force-feeding me everything is a quick way to turn me off from reading.


CauldronBorn24 wrote:
It may create a lot of inconsistency however it can be a good thing considering that it gives writers a template while allowing them to more or less do express their own ideas. I suppose it all fits if one considers Felarya a land of lore rather than fact; each tale having its own differences.
I know form talking to /Fish/ that the soil has its limitations; for example if you have a wound in which you are haemorrhaging badly like a gunshot or other serious puncture you are going to bleed to death. Likewise if you lose a limb such as a leg or an arm it won’t grow back on its own; reattaching it may be easier however. Genetic defects where the cause is due to damaged or corrupted DNA would probably still manifest; like some cancers, yet I believe the soil will stop the effects from becoming crippling or spreading. It should also be possible for you to be cured if the damaged DNA is no longer prevalent. If the condition does not involve physical damage be it at the macro or cellular level; such as diabetes, I don't think the soil will have any effect. As asthma is an infection which narrows the air passages; it is possible that the soil would in fact prevent your character or anyone else from having serious asthma attacks; like the cancer, depending on the nature of the infection you may be cured. From what I understand about pathogens is that they exist in the environment however the body's immune system is boosted, combined with cellular replication, that harmful foreign bodies would be neutralised before they had time to take hold; so with a disease like the Spanish flu of 1919 where people died due to their own immune systems, on Felarya it wouldn't get to that stage as the virus/bacteria would be neutralised almost on the first encounter with a Lymphocyte cell. Should the immune system cause any collateral damage; as it is most likely cellular, the regenerative effects should be able to heal it without resulting in any serious problems. What I imagine the boosted immune system to be is the soil allows the creation and replication of antibodies to occur at a rate where any encountered foreign body is neutralised very quickly; of course you can't get something for nothing so a healthy diet would be required. Outside of the healing soil's effective range, the body would only be able to produce antibodies at its natural rate; allowing diseases to take hold.


Already talked about the asthma, but the other stuff I want to touch on. Any illness that is caused by the body's own malfunctions I do not believe Felarya's soil would be able to prevent - indeed, it might actually help them. It might be able to heal the damage from them, but I don't necessarily think it'll 'fix' them. For example, if you had an autoimmune disease, the soil's magic should be able to repair the damage to the cells caused by your immune system attacking them. But it wouldn't be able to stop your body from actually doing that - in fact, since it boosts the immune systems effectiveness, it might actually make your disease worse. Likewise, since cancer is just a stochastic effect leading to the mutation of susceptible RNA and thus DNA, the soil wouldn't be able to 'fix' this. It might actually help it, since the soil boosts cellular repair and growth and malignant cancer tends to operate with rapid multipliers.


We know the soil on Felarya allows people to live naturally for very long lifespans, which means that, at least in some part, the soil's natural healing properties are doing something to prevent the loss of RNA during cell splitting that leads to human aging. I think this hints to that a person born in Felarya would be unlikely to contract cancer, as the soil is helping to prevent the DNA from becoming damaged and leading to malignant daughters - but someone who comes to Felarya from a dimension with medical technology equivalent or lesser to modern Earth would already have suffered years of this damage, so their risk for cancer would be higher and if they already had it, the soil isn't going to get rid of it.


I would take the soils properties from two prospects. The first with boosting the immune system, the second with causing the production of natural stem-cell-like cell birth in the body (perhaps by breathing in atomized soil in the air crystalline structures become formed in the lungs and/or bloodstream that generate neutral cellular growth from their contact with your own cells - a helpful non-living parasite if you will). The former will assist in preventing the contraction and spread of disease, whereas the latter would assist in repair of damaged or missing cells (such as in the case of cancer or missing a limb [in this case however you have to actually be able to survive said lost, as the amount of trauma received from such a wound would kill you without medical attention, magic or no]). By instead creating natural cells that can replace any cell, it would become like a beneficial cancer instead of a malignant one, and by instead promoting the birth of 'neutral' cells (stem cells are at a state where they can still assume any function, like malignant cancer, but unlike your normal cells - a skin cell is a skin cell and cannot become a liver cell) instead of the faster replication of your current cells (which would just kill you faster as the more your cells split the faster you lose RNA until your cells can no longer split and body mass starts becoming reduced until you die). In this way, it provides for the long life of the inhabitants of Felarya and explains in some part the ability to both repair and prevent, without becoming so focused that interest is lost.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Karbo
Evil admin
Evil admin
avatar

Posts : 3769
Join date : 2007-12-08

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:07 am

Mhh I won't go into a case by case, I'm simply not knowledgeable enough in medecine to know exactly what a given disease is about ^^;
But I thought the wiki was relatively precise on that particular point...
Basically the immune system get a dramatic boost when in Felarya and regenerate to a certain extent.
A cut of limb clearly won't grow back but a wound will close fast.
But a genetic disease won't be healed because it's about DNA and the soil of Felarya doesn't correct that.


Last edited by Karbo on Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://karbo.deviantart.com/
Jætte_Troll
Friend of the Jotun
Friend of the Jotun
avatar

Posts : 2769
Join date : 2009-02-03
Age : 26
Location : Over There

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:31 am

Hmm, I simply thought that rather than Felarya itself eradicating diseases, it just gave your immune system super powers, to the point that diseases are nullified.

For genetic diseases, I think you would still scientifically have them, but its effects would be very muted and controlled and its doubtful you would die from it. But, Felarya couldn't "cure" you of it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jaettetroll.deviantart.com/
Anime-Junkie
Loremaster
avatar

Posts : 2690
Join date : 2007-12-17
Age : 24
Location : The Country of Kangaroos and Criminal Scum

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:43 am

Jætte_Troll wrote:
Hmm, I simply thought that rather than Felarya itself eradicating diseases, it just gave your immune system super powers, to the point that diseases are nullified.
One way of putting it yes. I wouldn't say "super powers" though.

Jætte_Troll wrote:
For genetic diseases, I think you would still scientifically have them, but its effects would be very muted and controlled and its doubtful you would die from it. But, Felarya couldn't "cure" you of it.
Yes, it wouldn't cure you. But, depending on the genetics, the symptoms or the cause of the disease it might not mute it at all.
To use an example: diseases like Multiple Sclerosis, which would be made worse by the Felarya effect, as boosting the immune system would just give it more power to attack the body. Any autoimmune disorder would be devastating to a person or creature on Felarya.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.Excelsior-Emeritus.deviantart.com
Oldman40k2003
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 661
Join date : 2007-12-09

PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:37 pm

Anime-Junkie wrote:
Yes, it wouldn't cure you. But, depending on the genetics, the symptoms or the cause of the disease it might not mute it at all.
To use an example: diseases like Multiple Sclerosis, which would be made worse by the Felarya effect, as boosting the immune system would just give it more power to attack the body. Any autoimmune disorder would be devastating to a person or creature on Felarya.


While your immune system is getting boosted, you are also "regenerating" (or at least that is what I get out of this sentence fragment
Karbo wrote:
...and regenerate to a certain extent.
), so I think the question of "will your auto-immune disease get better, stay the same, or get worse on Felarya?" depends entirely on the relative strengths of the immune system boosting vs. the regeneration, and how quickly an auto-immune disease destroys things.

That is, lets say that an auto-immune disease kills 400 cells per second, and the human body regenerates at 100 cells per second (under normal conditions). In the real world, a person with this disease would eventually run out of cells and die. Now lets assume they go to Felarya.

Suppose they travel to Felarya, and their immune system gets a 2x boost in strength, as does their bodies' ability to regenerate. That means that they now lose cells at 800 cells per second and gain them back at 200 cells per second. They are now losing cells faster than they were on Earth, and so are dying faster.

Suppose they travel to Felarya, and their immune system gets a 2x boost in strength, but their ability to regenerate gets an 8x boost in strength. That means that they are now losing cells at 800 cells per second, and gaining them back at 800 cells per second. Under these conditions this person has stopped dying, but the damage already done is not getting repaired.

Finally, suppose that they travel to Felarya, and their immune system gets a 2x boost in strength, but their ability to regenerate gets a 10x boost in strength. That means they are now losing cells at 800 cells per second, but gaining them back at 1000 cells per second. This person is not only not dying, but is in fact getting better, as damage is getting healed. They aren't cured of their auto-immune disease, but so long as they stay on Felarya they will be asymptomatic.

So, if the goal is a Felarya where people with auto-immune diseases don't die, we need merely adjust the relative strengths of regeneration vs. immune system boosting.





Cancer is a much trickier thing to deal with, and I have not yet given it enough thought.

_________________
Eye see you.

"...you can't explain everything with science." - Our own "Sean Okotami"
Sure you can, though you may have to invent a new field of science first.

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://oldman40k2003.deviantart.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: What counts as a disease?   

Back to top Go down
 
What counts as a disease?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Mother with Lyme Disease hoping for precious milk for my 11-week-old Darling Boy
» I have frozen milk to donate
» "Flesh eating Bacteria in U.S. attracting more Media attention
» Max Clifford charged 11 counts indecent assault
» ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ?????????(LIVER DISEASE SYMPTOMS)

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Felarya :: General forums :: General discussion-
Jump to: