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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Elves VS Nekos   Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:57 pm

Okay, another question thread. I've noticed that Nekos and Elves seem to be very similar, except that Nekos are physically stronger while Elves are magically stronger. However, both are known for being nimble, having quick reflexes (Not so sure about Nekos for that part), and sharpened sight (Not so sure about Elves for that part... or Nekos for that matter, but that's my assumption) and hearing. Elves do have much, much better accuracy, but I think Nekos are faster in the long run. However, I still don't think that's quite enough to distinguish them. Any of you have any idea what could distinguish the two better?
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:05 pm

you forget the claws and the the sense of smell for the neko. The night vision are debatable for the elves. but in overall:

-Elves have the hearing, a good vision which give them a good accuracy, dexterity and agility, longevity.

-Nekos have feline senses attribute ie hearing,smelling, vision, animal instincts, retractable claws some can run in all four to move faster.

About magic it's debatable because some elves doesn't rely a lot on magic, the elves are not all well-gifted in magic they may have a strong affinities but it doesn't make them necessary excellent spell caster.

We can add cultural and social interactions can play when we see how both develop their civilizations.

The difference seems clear when we see how the elves and nekos are both depicted in overall.


Last edited by gwadahunter2222 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missing words)
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:35 pm

Welp...let's break it down. Keep in mind that both kind of fill in the "near-human forest dweller" spot, in their own ways.

Nekos:
- Quicker and more agile than a human.
- Catlike reflexes allow them to keep their footing as they move, making each step count, and allowing them to keep their balance extremely well.
- Eyesight is likely about average. Cat's aren't known to have super-enhanced vision. I imagine they do see better in the dark than a human or Elf ever could.
- Their main strengths are their senes of smell and hearing. This allows them to be extremely aware of their surroundings, and what has come and gone through the area.
- No more magically gifted than the average human, I imagine. They are not a magically centric race.
- Nekos often work as guides out of Negav. They know the forest well, and their natural instincts and powerful senses make them good at this.
- Rely more on stealth and cunning than power. A neko is going to try to remain unseen, and if it can't, its going to make a run for it.

Elves:
- Possibly have more endurance over long distances, but, I honestly doubt they have any physical abilities much more impressive than a human.
- Elves tend to be thinner, and more finely built.
- They have extremely keen vision, and extremely fine hearing.
- Elves are often extremely magically oriented, and make formidable mages.
- Forest Elves would rely on their senses and knowledge of their surroundings to survive. They don't have the natural speed and agility of nekos.
- Illusion magic could make for a nice escape tool to help compensate for their physical averageness.
- Stealth would also be their primary defense, and I imagine an Elf that knows what they are doing can be extremely silent as it slowly makes its way through the jungle, keeping constantly on alert.

Basically, the way I see it, it comes down to more physically oriented race (Nekos) who rely on their instincts and speed...and a more magically oriented race (Elves) who, while not as gifted physically, have very keen senses and access to magic that could potentially help save their lives if they are in trouble.

Not to mention the massive differences in culture and personalities.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:25 am

Doesn't the wiki also mention that Nekos are physically stronger than humans and that Elves also have lightning reflexes?

Quote :
Nekos are a humanoid species with feline features. They are on average taller than humans, stronger, and much more agile.

Quote :
On the other hand, larger elves make frighteningly efficient hunters because of their heightened vision and hearing, and their lightning quick reflexes.

I know the quote applies to giant elves, but we've already established that giants in Felarya are simply scaled up versions of their smaller counterparts, so regular Elves would also have the reflexes.


To answer gwada, I've never understood the "low-light vision" of Elves, so I usually give it only to specific races of elves. I do see it on Nekos since they are cats and cats are nocturnal predators. I don't quite think they can see in absolute darkness since nocturnal would usually imply that there is light from moons, albeit slim.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:39 am

Those seem like enough differences to keep the elves and nekos from being mistaken as eachother, though I would like to add another thing.

-nekos have tails

Dunno how it helps them besides sometimes being a third arm, but it's a difference nonetheless.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:45 am

@sean: about neko "average" doesn't mean it applies to all the specie. so not all the nekos have physical advantages on humans in overall.

And the both citations you quoted are general definitions to describe the average elf and neko but not all the races but it's another details. My question is after read all the answers why you start this thread? I don't understand you say both nekos and elves are similar but both are depicted very different in many stories and in the wiki. I what they look similar because neko are humanoid with feline features involving all we know about feline and elves are humanoid with heightened vision, hearing and good reflex. So where are the similarities.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:11 am

Just that both can be depicted as the agile, yet frail race. Also, on average would mean that it's the general consensus of the race having these traits. I do have the brain cells to know that some can be wimpier and less agile, but the point is that a random member of this specie is likely going to have higher agility. As for the similarities, you just named them; both have heightened perceptions, quicker reflexes and nimbler. The wiki doesn't mention an Elf's dexterity, which I find really odd. Also Cliff, how can Forest Elves, creatures that live in the trees, not have the agility of Nekos when I'm sure they are known for jumping around from branch to branch. I get they wouldn't be as fast when it comes to running, but to acrobatics, I'm pretty sure they'd be on par. In fact, aren't Elves known for being frail but quick? How can it be omitted from the wiki?

What I mean is there anyway to differentiate this heightened perceptions, reflexes and agility so they feel a bit more distinguished in that regard?

Before you jump and claim that it's up to cultures to dictate that, yes, culture is indeed important, but that's for cultural traits, not RACIAL traits. Both are importants, both need to feel distinguished. For example, Nekos have to cope with lesser sight than elves, but benefit from more sensitive noses, if less so than Inus, and their eyes are more sensitive to light, so they can see well when it's dim for example. Nekos and Elves are both acrobatic, but Nekos are faster on their feet while Elves are more dexetrous with their hands. Nekos can take hits better, but they lack endurance, while Elves can't take hits well but last longer to exetended physical activities. Things like that to make them feel a bit more distinct.


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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:49 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
Just that both can be depicted as the agile, yet frail race

I never understand in what to be agile make you necessary frail because I have see many example of agile creature which are very tough. I don't see a creature with feline feature is necessary frail. To be frail or not it's a matter of constitution not agility.

Sean Okotami wrote:
As for the similarities, you just named them; both have heightened perceptions, quicker reflexes and nimbler.

In that case it can apply to many creatures in Felarya. tree qualities have been shown to not work in the same way earlier for both of them.

Sean Okotami wrote:
The wiki doesn't mention an Elf's dexterity, which I find really odd.

wiki wrote:
They are excellent magic users, have incredible reflexes, and their proficiency with ranged weapons is legendary.
if it doesn't refers to their dexterity because use ranged weapons doesn't only refer to have good eyes but a good dexterity too but if it's not enough explicit I'm sorry.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:51 am

Elves aren't going to live in trees. That would just be stupid.

Nekos do it because they have claws to help climb, the agility to get around and the extreme balance to not fall.

Elves would be on the forest floor, using stealth, caution and their extreme hearing and sight to survive. They would have a slower, more cautious pace than a neko, since they can't just take off running and jumping if there's trouble. Elves probably have more endurance over longer distances, but in terms of actual agility and speed, I don't see them much different than a human. They aren't a physically oriented race...they're more magically focused.

Nekos = Rogues/Thieves (Quick, agile, able to leap and free-run all over)
- Weapon of choice: Knives/Swords
- Greatest strengths: Agility, sense of smell, quick reflexes and great balance.

Elves = Mages/Rangers (Powerful magic users that are highly in tune with the forest. They silently creep through the forest, senses keen and their movements slow and deliberate)
- Weapon of choice: Bow and arrows/Magic
- Greatest strengths: Amazingly keen vision and hearing, patience, stealth and magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:55 am

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine Elves, the races that was created as being nimbler than Humans, and you gut them as slow and clumsy as a Human? Also, the wiki did say they have incredible reflexes. Why is it not among their strength? How could you miss such a thing? Also, sorry to disappoint, but I do see it as them being agile and quick in the forest, and living in the trees would be smart since they could use the canopy with camouflage to snipe enemies and then dart from one branch to the other. How did you forget that?
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:01 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
I'm sorry, but I can't imagine Elves, the races that was created as being nimbler than Humans, and you gut them as slow and clumsy as a Human? Also, the wiki did say they have incredible reflexes. Why is it not among their strength? How could you miss such a thing? Also, sorry to disappoint, but I do see it as them being agile and quick in the forest. They could use the canopy with camouflage to snipe enemies and then dart from one branch to the other. How did you forget that?

Dude, I never said they were clumsy. They move slowly because they are deliberate. Their senses are always on alert, they are constantly in tune with their surroundings...every motion and movement is planned out and done silently. Running around zipping and jumping is NOT a good way to stay alive.

Nekos are hard to catch. Elves are hard to even find in the first place.

They DO have incredible reflexes. How do you think they are so good with a bow?

Felaryan trees are HUNDREDS of feet tall. How do you suppose they climb up the trunks in the first place? They have no claws, and are basically human. Humans living in trees is stupid. Nekos make sense because extreme agility and balance is their main racial trait. The main trait of the elves are their senses and magic. They aren't ninjas, they're elves.

Elves are the silent shadows of the forest, lashing out with their bows, or avoiding detection altogether. They aren't free-running acrobats. Those are the nekos.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:06 am

Have you ever heard of, oh, I don't know, tools? I did say that overall, a neko would be faster in something like a race, but I still say that an elf would be very dodgy and acrobatic, able to leap from branch to branch. They wouldn't do it, but I still think they would be nimble. It's their whole shtick: graceful and quick, but have frail forms. Also, aren't cats the one supposed to be stealthy? Like I said, I think they would be both be agile, maybe nekos a little more so, but nekos are more physical while elves are more methodical since they act slower than the federal government.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:08 am

Why not just make them blue and call them the Na'Vi if we're going to make them super-agile tree dwellers.

They're elves, a fantasy race known for its patience and stealth. They should not be physically superior AND highly magical. They get the magic, the senses and the accuracy, but they don't get the speed and super-human ninja-jumping.

Its called balancing racial traits. Take fairies. Extremely powerful magic, and are capable of size-shifting and flgiht. In return, they are frail physically, and have a glaring weakness (Shoot the wings for massive damage). Not to mention their magical nature makes them vulnerable to anti-magic weaponry.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:18 am

I never said they were fast. They probably run as fast as a Human on average, which a Neko would beat them to the punch in a sprint, but if Elves are classified as "quicker" as in "react faster to stimuli", then I guess I misinterpreted their whole concept. Also, Humans tend to be sturdier than elves. Put them in a cage match and the Human is probably going to win.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:40 am

I don't see what the fuss is about honnestly ^^;
For one there is different races of Nekos and elves. You have nekos that are so used to live in the city they have become almost similar to humans, and some who are very savage and with lightning reflexes.
And the same is true for elves : they varies a lot. You have the scarlet elves who live in the jungle of perils, an developped incredible speed and agility, and others who would live in refined and civilized societies and would quickly become a snack if left in the jungle...

What the two races have in common is they have sharper sense than humans and are more agile ( and in the case of nekos, have generally more strenght ). But even so, I personnaly see the two races as different enough as it is..
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:41 am

Also Elves tend to not really live in trees, though there could be some exceptions.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:05 am

Something about Neko strength I need clarification, is this strength as in they could lift and carry heavier loads or is it more strength as in being able to leap higher and farther in a single jump as well as like run at top speed right at the start of a sprint?
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:10 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Something about Neko strength I need clarification, is this strength as in they could lift and carry heavier loads or is it more strength as in being able to leap higher and farther in a single jump as well as like run at top speed right at the start of a sprint?
The answer is obvious. To carry things it depend on the strenght you have in your back and in the case of agility it's the strenght you have in your limbs.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:29 pm

Well, it's up to Karbo to decide that.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:54 pm

as you wish.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:16 pm

Anyone knows that agile implies strength in the limbs. But when the wiki says that nekos are stronger than humans on average, does it mean that kind of strength or being able to do things like carry heavier loads and punch harder?
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:45 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Well, it's up to Karbo to decide that.


No, it's up to Karbo to accept or decline that. The whole purpose of these forums is for the community to provide input for the Felaryan universe that Karbo accepts or rejects dependent on his own view of the universe. Stop being a backseat puppeteer. If you wanted this up to Karbo alone you should have sent it via PM, not by forum post. My personal observation is that as of late many of your posts fit within the realm of open disagreement vice constructive criticism. If you have an issue with the way something is described, you should not default to such posts as quoted above when you disagree with the suggestions made.


Personally, I see nothing wrong with the descriptions as they are as it provides writers with room to explore. Elves, nekos, and humans are all very similar humanoids, their major differences are more metaphysical, cultural, and affinity based. They are not meant to be some rigid value, it is just an average approximation - trying to make it a rigid value is defining individual characters, not entire races. You would find members of each community that are varied and would not fit to this vague rule - which is exactly what Karbo and several others already pointed out. The variety of backgrounds provides members within each group specified topical advantages in the environments they originated from which evolution developed over time, and some of those regimes will cross over between the races in such a way that would be very similar.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:32 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Anyone knows that agile implies strength in the limbs. But when the wiki says that nekos are stronger than humans on average, does it mean that kind of strength or being able to do things like carry heavier loads and punch harder?

I was expecting a question like that. First all punch is not a matter of strenght but the position and the move of the body in order to shift the bodyweight to draw a particular momentum. The punch damage will vary depending the pressure on the body of the target.
a punch used only the arm strenght are weakest, the most important factor in matter of punching in the weight and speed input in the punch. That's why the stronger punch are generally found in heavier weight category than the lighter one.

About the strenght to carry heavy load as I said it's not the same strenght to move faster, because the muscle are not working the same way. To carry a load it will depend how the body bear the pressure exert when to lift it. A weight lifter is not built in the same way sprinter.

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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:36 pm

Isn't the whole point of decision accept or reject something? Please explain how all the threads where I meant to know more and clarify things about the wiki is open disagreement, how I'm a backseat pupeteer, how races, from what you just said, are essentially the same just with different culture and that having racial traits is unnecessary, so you can make me feel more ashamed than I already am and make me look even more like a moron?

Since I'm apparently a backseat pupeteer, I can't reply to gwada as it would be "open disagreement against constructive criticism", but I'm pretty sure physical strength plays a role in applying pressure for an unarmed strike. I'm just wondering if a Neko's superior strength is all around for any type of physical activities or if it is just strength to sprint, leap and jump, and that kind of stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:29 pm

Just on the subject of cat people living in trees, cats, domestic or otherwise, aren't really designed for that. Trees are fantastic to run and hide in, but cats generally prefer hiding in the undergrowth and pouncing on stuff. And though Elves don't have claws to climb with, snakes, apes and most monkeys don't have claws either, and most of them spend nearly all their time in the trees, unlike cats, whose claws are more designed to catch prey anyway. Not saying that Nekos shouldn't live in trees, but claiming that they're the only ones suited to it doesn't make much sense.

I personally think that at least a few elves would have tree villages, it goes along with their hippie 'one with nature shit' they're famous for. And although it isn't the norm, I could see a few clever humans building settlements on the branches of, or even in the trunk of giant trees, do a Google image search for Tree House and marvel at human ingenuity. The only reason building a house in a tree to live in is so rare is because trees big enough to support them are ancient and don't grow in many places, not because humans are derpy knuckle-dragging mongoloids who can't think to use ladders.


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