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 Elves VS Nekos

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aethernavale
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:01 am

No, from aether's reasoning they are of the same genus. Not the same species. Scientifically it makes the most sense if they all share a common ancestor, but in the fantasy realm this would be a debate never settled.


Cliff is presenting the correct idea with the wrong words. For example, a boa constrictor is a snake - of the boa genus. Constrictor is the species. There are 5 species in the boa genus with 9 more subspecies specifically in the boa constrictor species that the general point of view from anyone other than a taxonomist any of these snakes would simply be referred to as a boa or boa constrictor, when they are all in fact separate species or subspecies.


Humans, nekos, and elves can all be different species, but they would fall within the same genus without doubt, and therefore the anatomical differences between them are relatively minor - but they have enough differences to be separate species. I would not say that humans, nekos, and elves were subspecies unless common ancestry could be a proven item. The difference between a species is determined by morphological, developmental, biochemical or behavioral differences. Most people usually only think of it from the biochemical - ie DNA - point of view, but this isn't how taxonomy works.


Modern humans are homo sapiens sapiens, which is actually a subspecies of a species. We tend to lump everything together because homo sapiens sapiens is the only currently surviving form, but in the animal kingdom this is rarely the case. In this example we show that homo is a genus, not a species. It is more common to find that a species will not have subspecies - once again the example of the boa constrictor, of the five types of boas only the constrictor species has subspecies.
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:50 am

I continue to say my point: If you're going to have non-human humanoids, you make sure they are relatively distinguishable not only from appearance but abilities. I rarely see that in stories.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:05 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
I continue to say my point: If you're going to have non-human humanoids, you make sure they are relatively distinguishable not only from appearance but abilities. I rarely see that in stories.

Why would they have different abilities? Different spieices sometimes come to the same evolutionary conculsion by following a different path, Convergent evolution
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:16 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
I was pointing out that if humanoids like Humans, Nekos and Elves as species for you linguists, have barely any difference in what their strengths and weaknesses are, and their only distinction is culture, then there's no point to make them different species, just make them all the same specie but with a ton of culture differences.

That definitely won't happens.

They ARE different races, even if they shares plenty of similar traits.
I just don't get why you keep bitching about that.. at this point it looks more arguing for the sake of arguing to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:37 am

Why? Because I express my thoughts. That makes me the strawman to beat down then? Even if they share plenty of similar traits, I abide to what Ace said. I like seeing different "races" that are actually different. The problem is that most stories that I see barely show any difference between a neko and a human. Sure, even if it's not extreme, it should at least be noticeable. Also Aether, your words fly a mile above my head. I'm not a scientest. All I'm getting across: They're from the Homo Genus (possibly sapiens since they are sapient), then they branched. That I get. But in a lot of stories, the differences between an elf, human or neko are almost non-existent.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:13 am

The problem there is the author getting it wrong, not the idea.
The wiki states that there are nekos that run on all fours (fast, I imagine) and can climb trees in the blink of an eye. Can elves or humans do that?
No they can't. There's a major difference for you. The differences are there, just look for them.

Nekos, elves and humans have different physical traits, as well as different psychological and cultural traits.
If these were laid out clearer in the wiki this wouldn't happen.

Nekos are given some unique behavioural traits (eg: purring).
It is obvious from this thread that they are in need of development.

Aether said that he perceives one of the primary differences to be culture.
Since culture comes from a way of thinking, traditions and customs, it makes sense that elves, nekos and humans are going to think in very different ways.
For example, Nekos obviously are going to rely more on instinct. Therefore they don't have a very advanced culture when compared to humans, who can overcome their instincts.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:03 am

I have nothing to add. It should be the author's job to show the divergences between the humanoids. Yes, they have plenty of similarities, but the fact is: they are still different from humans, and I often see neko characters who don't behave or possess skills much different than a human.
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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:49 pm

I agree with Karbo on this one. Just because they're both humanoid and share similar traits doesn't make them the same species. There are plenty of examples in real life of this.

...If you don't want to accept that then... that's fine with me. It's your decision completely.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:52 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
I agree with Karbo on this one. Just because they're both humanoid and share similar traits doesn't make them the same species. There are plenty of examples in real life of this.

...If you don't want to accept that then... that's fine with me. It's your decision completely.
Did you even read what I said? I said that I want them as different species, and that's the keyword, DIFFERENT! A lot of time in stories, they're practically interchangeable.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:11 am

The key phrase here is in stories.
You should be talking to the authors about this.
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Krisexy26
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:18 pm

alright well since nekos are SO MUCH superior than any other races (Razz) i would just like to ask a question myself Smile (<---yeah that sentence doesnt make sense at all so dont read it :/)

i just want to put in my knowledge about the lord of the rings. elves are "immortal" in lotr. is it the same with felarya? and yeah, i know that even if lotr elves are superior, they can be killed :/ im not that dumb
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:24 pm

Everything is immortal on Felarya... Of course, elves can still be killed, as my own Ruby has demonstrated throughout her tales, but as for living forever... Felarya grants that to everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:58 pm

i have some difficulties to absorb that everyone is immortal on felarya...there can be old people i hope?
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aethernavale
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:07 pm

Krisexy26 wrote:
i have some difficulties to absorb that everyone is immortal on felarya...there can be old people i hope?

Typically those that actually age past their prime would be individuals who did not originate from Felarya and reached such an age prior to their arrival. There are however areas where the magic of the soil/water is not as powerful (or are affected by other items), such as in Lamina.


Generally speaking, you won't find very many 'old' people in Felarya. You'll definitely find people that have lived for centuries, but they certainly won't show signs of such a tenure. One of the lucrative aspects to Felarya that attracts people is the immortality concept - since mostly the only way to die is to become a part of someone's food chain. Dying of old age is practically unheard of.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:17 pm

It's essentially eternal youth. You won't age, thus can't die of old age. However, they can still die from being stabbed in the back (or any vital area), from exsanguination (Crisis almost died of exsanguination when she was a child), poisoning, suffocation, drowning, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:21 pm

Krisexy26 wrote:
i have some difficulties to absorb that everyone is immortal on felarya...there can be old people i hope?

Pretty much what Aether said. If someone was born and raised in Felarya their entire lives, they will never look any other than 26 or 28 years old. That's around the age when someone hits their physical prime, and when the anti-aging aspect of Felarya's healing factor takes over.

Anyone that appears old either came from offworld after reaching that age, or is using some kind of illusion.

It isn't like there would be no old people though. I mean, look at Negav. There is a large population of merchants, traders, mercenaries, explorers, and all sorts of people that come in from other worlds. Its fairly likely that quite a few of these people, being the professionals that they are, would certainly be older than 28 years old.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:42 am

How old do you think the average predator would be before the soil kicks in?

This was probably asked earlier, but I cannot for the life of me find it.

Since their aging works differently, I assumed once they hit 300 or something it would stop there.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:22 am

Saying that it "kicks in" is a bit of a confusing way to put it.

Cliff has estimated that, on average for giant species, it takes about 40 years for a predator to reach full size. So if we assume that their prime is around 40 to 50 years, it means that the soil will maintain their body in that condition.
However, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to have baby smooth skin. Certain thing are going to mark out the old from the young. Scars, calluses and other such things will remain because they're not exactly injuries.

Krisexy26 wrote:
i have some difficulties to absorb that everyone is immortal on felarya...there can be old people i hope?
I'm a bit confused as to how you can not know this. It's one of Felarya's major points. As far as I know it's always been that way (at least as long as I have been around) and it's on the wiki front page. I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in multiple stories too.
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Krisexy26
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:33 am

well everyone was young so i assumed immortality without noticing it...and i do not read the wiki Razz just when im not sure about something. otherwise, you guys makes SOOOO long comments and the wiki is full of infos that its hard for me to follow..
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:22 pm

Krisexy26 wrote:
well everyone was young so i assumed immortality without noticing it...and i do not read the wiki Razz just when im not sure about something. otherwise, you guys makes SOOOO long comments and the wiki is full of infos that its hard for me to follow..

Maybe at least read the front page of the wiki. It gives a short summary of many of Felarya's main themes and unique traits.

Not wanting to read the wiki of a highly complex fantasy setting you write stories set in just comes off as...well, kinda lazy. It will help make your stories more in line with how Felarya really is, and a lot of people put a whole lot of effort into thinking up ideas for the setting. There are plenty of interesting things in there. Not just characters, but locations, plant life, animals, and so on. The setting is constantly growing and developing, and the wiki is the best place to keep up with all the new additions.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:51 pm

Indeed. If more new people, or even current members, looked over the wiki more often, it would help bring the world together and tighten things up.

I feel its especially important for new folk to look over the variety of species and locations, so we don't get the dreaded flood of "fairies and nagas living in generic Felarya jungle."
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:42 pm

well, i do not read wikipedia, so i dont know why i should read the wiki as well. its just massive information about kinda anything. i look at it sometimes, but not too much
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:31 pm

We're not saying read the whole thing in one go, but rather this:


Basically, if you're writing, make sure you've done the research or it will show badly.
The wiki shows what things are like in Felarya. Everything in there is put there by Karbo. Only things he thinks fit are in there.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:55 pm

Krisexy26 wrote:
well, i do not read wikipedia, so i dont know why i should read the wiki as well. its just massive information about kinda anything. i look at it sometimes, but not too much

Contrary to popular belief, information is never a bad thing to have.
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PostSubject: Re: Elves VS Nekos   Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:51 pm

you dont know how much i totally agree with that jaettetroll Razz

but i hope you also understand i prefer reading stendhal or balzac rather than the felarya wiki, dont you agree? Razz
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