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luke112
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 1:49 pm

a few question i need to have answerd.

1. what was the Total Strenght of the Isolon Fist, Investagators, Negavian Police, and Vishtamal Security Forces in 2020 AU? by the Numbers Please.
2. What was all of the above strenghts equipment wise ( like so and so had 100 assualt jet bikes or something like that) in 2020 AU
3. what is the Average number of units of the Forces above that Fall in the Line of duty a year? (if any)
4. Just what are the Above Forces weaknesses, ( There has to be some, i mean they are human(ish) and thus have Human Flaws and if they dont then that just seems Unblanced.)
5. what could make a Isolon Fist Turn tale and run? ( Muilti answer questtion)
A. seeing an enraged Anna
B. seeing one man Brutaly Kill 11 of his sqaud Mates
C. An angry Magiocrate
D. Other ( if other please speicify on what it is)
That is all for now Gentalmen
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CauldronBorn24
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 1:50 pm

Having a Dusk Nymph live in Negav on her own, without any support is going to be a challenge in itself; you're automatically restricted in what you can do otherwise people are going to start asking questions. Most Negavians are xenophobic, and the authorities are worse in that respect. She would need to know she can't do things that she would be able to do in her natural environment, that is going to take a lot of dicipiline. So while Dusk Nymphs can sneak into Negav; there are reasons as to why it is very uncommon, one is their natural habbitat is so far away, the other is that it is more trouble than it is worth; the Isolon Eye may not be an issue but the people, all those eyes and ears within the city, pose a very dangerous threat.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:06 pm

luke112 wrote:
a few question i need to have answerd.

1. what was the Total Strenght of the Isolon Fist, Investagators, Negavian Police, and Vishtamal Security Forces in 2020 AU? by the Numbers Please.
2. What was all of the above strenghts equipment wise ( like so and so had 100 assualt jet bikes or something like that) in 2020 AU
3. what is the Average number of units of the Forces above that Fall in the Line of duty a year? (if any)
4. Just what are the Above Forces weaknesses, ( There has to be some, i mean they are human(ish) and thus have Human Flaws and if they dont then that just seems Unblanced.)

None of those questions have been answered. There is no official information on those matters. You'd have to ask Karbo- and he hasn't answered those questions for a reason. Usually, he prefers to see what do people come up with.
I'd recommend you to assume any answer you need for your story- we'll see later how you work through it, and whether you do well or not.

luke112 wrote:
5. what could make a Isolon Fist Turn tale and run? ( Muilti answer questtion)
A. seeing an enraged Anna
B. seeing one man Brutaly Kill 11 of his sqaud Mates
C. An angry Magiocrate
D. Other ( if other please speicify on what it is)
That is all for now Gentalmen
Depends on the individual member.

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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:08 pm

CauldronBorn24 wrote:
Having a Dusk Nymph live in Negav on her own, without any support is going to be a challenge in itself; you're automatically restricted in what you can do otherwise people are going to start asking questions. Most Negavians are xenophobic, and the authorities are worse in that respect. She would need to know she can't do things that she would be able to do in her natural environment, that is going to take a lot of dicipline. So while Dusk Nymphs can sneak into Negav; there are reasons as to why it is very uncommon, one is their natural habbitat is so far away, the other is that it is more trouble than it is worth; the Isolon Eye may not be an issue but the people within the city pose a very dangerous threat.
Which is why I decided to develop the two adventures from "a way in" into "two guys helping her so they don't get killed for letting a damn Dusk Nymph into the city".
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:15 pm

Black Aquila wrote:

Which is why I decided to develop the two adventures from "a way in" into "two guys helping her so they don't get killed for letting a damn Dusk Nymph into the city".

Even then, that just makes those two guys a target to be lynched if they are found out. While it is not immpossible it is a very hard undertaking.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:27 pm

Quote :
Now can they get in and change to their humanoid form yes, but whether they were found out or not is a different question. Keep in mind that being fully clothed from head to toe is very suspicious your best bet at moving would be merging with shadows and maintaining a small size to avoid anyone spotting you, because if you get spotted and caught you are dead. No one will try to save a predator in Negav.

Yeah, Dusk Nymphs are completely immune to The Eye for some reason.

Negav's main defense against Dusk Nymphs is their rarity. Dusk Nymphs don't naturally live in the near-Negav area. The only way one would even be brought to the city is if she rode the shadow of an adventurer that had travelled up to her territory.

It'd be extremely dangerous for a Dusk Nymph in Negav though. She'd have to move very carefully, and if she gets found out, she's going to have to worry about the Isolon Fist coming to look for her.

Quote :
But would being covered from head to toe really be that conspicuous?

I mean, there are plenty of reasons why someone would need to clothe themselves like that.

Keep in mind, cloaks don't work like they do in animes. Even if she were wearing a cloak, there's a chance soemone would be able to see her face, and the pitch-black skin and glowing red eyes are a clear give-away. The Dusk Nymph would also need to hide that glowing red halo that is found around her midsection. I think the idea of a Dusk Nymph just walking through the streets is highly unlikely. She's going to have to move carefully, using a mixture of her shrinking magic and shadow magic, and she's only going to be moving around at night.

Quote :
3. what is the Average number of units of the Forces above that Fall in the Line of duty a year? (if any)

No one knows the total number of Isolon Fist at this time.

What we do know is that the Isolon Fist is deployed in squads. The typical Isolon Fist squad, from what I've seen and talked to people about, contains two battlemages. These battlemages are paired together because their powers complement eachother. They are trained to work in tandem to take down the same target. Supporting the pair of battlemages are roughly a dozen conventionally armed soldiers. They're going to be using high-damage, anti-vehicle/anti-armor weapons, such as rockets and light machine-guns.

Quote :
5. what could make a Isolon Fist Turn tale and run? ( Muilti answer questtion)

The Isolon Fist are specifically trained to fight the giant predators of Felarya. That is their main job, and each Isolon Fist member knows that. The Isolon Fist are the elites of the Negavian military forces, they aren't just going to turn tail and run.

Quote :
A. seeing an enraged Anna

Once again, they're trained to fight giant preds. Seeing one of them angry is a normal thing for them.

Quote :
B. seeing one man Brutaly Kill 11 of his sqaud Mates

They're trained soldiers, and armed to the teeth with guns, explosives and powerful magic. One man isn't going to be able to kill an entire Isolon Fist squad. Also, they know that death is a potential risk of their job, and that they may end up seeing comrades get eaten or killed. They aren't just going to turn tail and run at the drop of a hat.

The Isolon Fist aren't normal military, they're the equivalent of special forces.


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luke112
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:28 pm

Stabs wrote:
luke112 wrote:
a few question i need to have answerd.

1. what was the Total Strenght of the Isolon Fist, Investagators, Negavian Police, and Vishtamal Security Forces in 2020 AU? by the Numbers Please.
2. What was all of the above strenghts equipment wise ( like so and so had 100 assualt jet bikes or something like that) in 2020 AU
3. what is the Average number of units of the Forces above that Fall in the Line of duty a year? (if any)
4. Just what are the Above Forces weaknesses, ( There has to be some, i mean they are human(ish) and thus have Human Flaws and if they dont then that just seems Unblanced.)

None of those questions have been answered. There is no official information on those matters. You'd have to ask Karbo- and he hasn't answered those questions for a reason. Usually, he prefers to see what do people come up with.
I'd recommend you to assume any answer you need for your story- we'll see later how you work through it, and whether you do well or not.

luke112 wrote:
5. what could make a Isolon Fist Turn tale and run? ( Muilti answer questtion)
A. seeing an enraged Anna
B. seeing one man Brutaly Kill 11 of his sqaud Mates
C. An angry Magiocrate
D. Other ( if other please speicify on what it is)
That is all for now Gentalmen
Depends on the individual member.

Actually i was asking CauldronBorn Because he Pretty much always answers these Questions thoughly and clearly every time i ask them.
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luke112
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:35 pm

Spoiler:
 

But even speacial Forces lose their Nerve cliff, Usally the FNG and then we must know that Their is always a Possablity that it could happen. and also we know that Even the Best speacial Forces sqaud could all Die if they Fight angianst something that had never been encountered and they underestamed it , something like a super soldier. this is just on the Assumption that The Isolon Fist is Trianed Like the ODST's and the Unkown would be a Spartan-II and the assumption that there is no Battle mage in the Sqaud (it could happen you know)
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 2:59 pm

Quote :
But even speacial Forces lose their Nerve cliff, Usally the FNG and then we must know that Their is always a Possablity that it could happen. and also we know that Even the Best speacial Forces sqaud could all Die if they Fight angianst something that had never been encountered and they underestamed it , something like a super soldier. this is just on the Assumption that The Isolon Fist is Trianed Like the ODST's and the Unkown would be a Spartan-II and the assumption that there is no Battle mage in the Sqaud (it could happen you know)

So many Halo referrences...

No, there are always battlemages in the squad. They are the main weapon of the Isolon Fist. The squad of soldiers is there to support them.

The idea that one guy with a few extra muscles is going to do anything against a dozen heavily armed soldiers and a pair of powerful, highly trained mages, is just absurd.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 4:04 pm

I agree with rcs. The Isolon Fist would make quick work of Mac (since we all know that he is the super soldier your referencing).
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 4:45 pm

luke112 wrote:
Spoiler:
 

But even speacial Forces lose their Nerve cliff, Usally the FNG and then we must know that Their is always a Possablity that it could happen. and also we know that Even the Best speacial Forces sqaud could all Die if they Fight angianst something that had never been encountered and they underestamed it , something like a super soldier. this is just on the Assumption that The Isolon Fist is Trianed Like the ODST's and the Unkown would be a Spartan-II and the assumption that there is no Battle mage in the Sqaud (it could happen you know)

LMAO - No. There would be a fight. Maybe some Police would die. Then the Battlemages would come in and this "hypothetical supersoldier" would get raped. By Magic. Even without that, the Negav Police aren't retarded. If they see someone who appears to be large and strong, they're just going to fall back and call in people with sniper rifles.

As for, specifically, a Battle Mage Squad - Cliff has this right. But a single squad isn't going to be the response to a threat within Negav. Even Master Chief can't fight magic. Your "hypothetical" supersolider would be obliterated.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Mon May 09, 2011 6:22 pm

luke112 wrote:
a few question i need to have answerd.

1. what was the Total Strenght of the Isolon Fist, Investagators, Negavian Police, and Vishtamal Security Forces in 2020 AU? by the Numbers Please.
2. What was all of the above strenghts equipment wise ( like so and so had 100 assualt jet bikes or something like that) in 2020 AU
3. what is the Average number of units of the Forces above that Fall in the Line of duty a year? (if any)
4. Just what are the Above Forces weaknesses, ( There has to be some, i mean they are human(ish) and thus have Human Flaws and if they dont then that just seems Unblanced.)
5. what could make a Isolon Fist Turn tale and run? ( Muilti answer questtion)
A. seeing an enraged Anna
B. seeing one man Brutaly Kill 11 of his sqaud Mates
C. An angry Magiocrate
D. Other ( if other please speicify on what it is)
That is all for now Gentalmen

Here are the answers you requested; though to be honest the best answer would be No. We know you are trying to create a scenario in which your character Mac fights a onesided battle with the different Negavian forces; so really I could give you any answer but in the end it won't matter as you'll write it so that Mac would previal against all possible odds. Interesting that you use an argument off odds aginst the Isolon Fist yet you will not apply that same argument to your own character. This is getting rather tiresome, if you actually payed attention to previous answers provided by other members of the community and myself, then you would know such a battle would not take place. Of course that is using the logic we as a community tend to follow, you on the other hand seem very determinded to defie that logic for whatever reason.

Seriously, why are you using Felarya? If you want to prove that Mac and the Endorians are indeed formidable warriors, though you have gone to such extreme lengths your efforts to do so are now laughable, why not make an enemy force of your own for them to fight? Why are you so inistant they need to fight on Felarya? Why are you so inistant on pitting them against the brain childs of others, seemingly ignoring their input, and having your character prevail against all odds? If you really want to continue with 'Mac vs the World then Mac winning' trend then I HIGHLY recommend you have such affiars take place outside of Felarya. You're just pissing people off.

Felarya is about survival, yes that requires some degree of force. However going around with the Dalek mentality of trying to kill everything to ensure your survival is not the way to do so. Pitting your characters against the brain childs of others to show how powerful and awesome they are is not the way to do so; unless you want to your character to look overpowered and ridiculous within the eyes of the community. I'm sorry but you have type casted yourself in a bad way; your questions, your little quotes relating to either the Milita or characters, just about everything you post over time as resulted in this.

Any way the answers. Also please pay attention, you you may appreicate detailed answers that detail, and effort on my part, is lost if you take no heed from them.

1. More than enough to kill Mac and any accomplices. You think I'm kidding? The exact numbers are unknown and will remain unknown as that would depend on Negav's demography, and Karbo has not given exact details on Negav's population or even the number of Magiocrats; that doesn't just go for the Isolon Fists but for the Investigators and the Vishmitals as well. The only exact figure I can give you is for the Negav Police. In 2020 AU there were zero members in the Negav Police as the institution did not exist.

2. Again, more than enough to turn Mac and any accomplices into chared body parts or just remove them form Felarya completely and drop him somewhere else in the Multiverse. Considering the wide range of ablities and weapons accessable to the Isolon Fists alone, that is an accurate answer. Think of it this way; the weapons available to the Vishmitals range from laser pistols and 7.62mm assault rifles to 152.4mm artillery guns and guided missiles.

3. That is a statistic I can't come up with. By logic; considering that the Isolon Fists have to deal with the perils outside of Negav's walls, their casualty rate will be higher. Higher than what however I don't know.

4. What and having a single character take them all on and previal isn't unbalanced? Negav is humanity's main bastion on 'known' Felarya, consdiering the dnagers and perils of the world it is going to have the strength of a local super power and its forces reflect that; weaknesses in one force will be coverd by another. Any obvious weakness and the city could fall to ruin.

5. rcs619 and Jætte_Troll already covered that, there is no need to repeat what they said.

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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 11:21 am

This is a little out of left field, but I feel it might as well be mentioned.

Is milk retailed in Felarya, and if so, does it come in a carton there, or do they put it in a different container?
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 11:37 am

@CauldronBorn - Thank you for finally saying that.

@Nyaha - Huh. Well... milk requires something to be milked. To be retailed, it requires something to be milked that can be milked in a herd. While I've not heard of anything like that being in existence (Felarya doesn't lend itself well to herding) there may be such a creature, its just not established.

Unless they have a history with such a herd animal, Negavians might not drink milk. A surprising fact is that lactose intolerance is the "normal" state for humans - we are meant to stop drinking milk once we stop drinking from our mother's breasts. However, certain societies became built up around pastoral living and milk made its way into their diet - these societies developed lactose tolerance. (If you look at which people have lactose tolerance, their racial background is likely to have been pastoral at some point).

Anyways, point being, Negavians would have need to have kept a herd animal for a long time. But it needn't be an exclusive thing. Maybe some races herded animals, other didn't.

Anyways, if Milk was sold in Negav, I'd figure it'd be sold in Milk Jugs. They're not shipping milk out (though maybe shipping it in.)
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 11:58 am

Well they have commercial ties from other worlds. Surely they get their milk, veggies, and all that from there.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 1:04 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Well they have commercial ties from other worlds. Surely they get their milk, veggies, and all that from there.

That is likely.

It has already been established that, because of the lack of space for large-scale farming, Negav imports a large portion of its food, and other supplies, from offworld.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 1:29 pm

I have a question:
How does the non-aging/immortality system of Felarya work?(I don't think it's on the wiki and if it is then please send me a link)
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 1:43 pm

Pim18 wrote:
I have a question:
How does the non-aging/immortality system of Felarya work?(I don't think it's on the wiki and if it is then please send me a link)

A person ages normally, until they reach their physical prime (the point where any more aging would start to degrade their bodies). At this point, the healing factor begins to take effect, and their aging stops.

For humans, a person usually reaches this point between the ages of 26 and 28 years old. The giant hybrids will reach their primes in their 50's or early 60's.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 3:04 pm

Jætte_Troll wrote:
@Nyaha - Huh. Well... milk requires something to be milked. To be retailed, it requires something to be milked that can be milked in a herd. While I've not heard of anything like that being in existence (Felarya doesn't lend itself well to herding) there may be such a creature, its just not established.

Unless they have a history with such a herd animal, Negavians might not drink milk. A surprising fact is that lactose intolerance is the "normal" state for humans - we are meant to stop drinking milk once we stop drinking from our mother's breasts. However, certain societies became built up around pastoral living and milk made its way into their diet - these societies developed lactose tolerance. (If you look at which people have lactose tolerance, their racial background is likely to have been pastoral at some point).

Anyways, point being, Negavians would have need to have kept a herd animal for a long time. But it needn't be an exclusive thing. Maybe some races herded animals, other didn't.

Anyways, if Milk was sold in Negav, I'd figure it'd be sold in Milk Jugs. They're not shipping milk out (though maybe shipping it in.)


Felarya doesn't need cows to produce milk. It has plenty of other ways to get milk, though most would probably be adverse to it. Plus hormones in the milk from those sources could cause issues with human/elf/neko physiology.


Also, lactose intolerance is *NOT* a normal state of humans.

Out of the three major causes of lactose intolerance, two are environmental. Lactose intolerance is a recessive genetic trait. While it is true that lactase production - the stuff that helps you break down lactose - lowers dramatically over the first years, one should not assume this means that humans aren't meant to consume milk. Indeed, most scientists believe that parents of our generations are weaning children too early. I do think it would be odd though to see it a staple past age 3 (I've read of it being continued to like age 6).

There are some cases of genetic mutation that eliminate the shutdown of lactase completely which might lead you to think in that manner, but the fact remains - lactase persistence is a dominant gene. Later in life you're just supposed to consume more than breastmilk. Lactase production drops off (in non-mutated cases) as the diet typically is no longer centered around milk and it's not necessary for you to continue making so much of it.

I have a lactation fetish, so anatomical function of breasts and breastmilk production is something I've put a lot of research into... especially that related to the absence of pregnancy, since I wouldn't want to get someone pregnant just to satisfy a fetish (though induced/forced lactation is not a simplistic or short-term goal you'd ask of any particular girl you were seeing).
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 5:05 pm




Then I suppose the entire anthropology department at my school is wrong, as is the general world anthropology community...

The fact is, humanity has not always evolved alongside herd animals. Not until humans became pastoralists instead of hunter gatherers was an ability to process lactose at a later age developed. Simply because we hadn't "invented" drinking milk yet. Some societies never went through this pastoral heritage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#History_of_genetic_prevalence

This is the reason some societies are highly lactose tolerate and others aren't. Pure Native Americans have no history of herding animals - they have extremely high lactose intolerance levels.

The fact is that mammals at a basic level are made to reduce lactase production after weaning. To quote wikipedia -

"The normal mammalian condition is for the young of a species to experience reduced lactase production at the end of the weaning period (a species-specific length of time). In humans, in non-dairy consuming societies, lactase production usually drops about 90% during the first four years of life, although the exact drop over time varies widely"

It is consuming dairy-products over a period of time that makes a group of people lactose-tolerant.

Lactose Tolerance after weaning is an evolved trait by pastoralist humans, NOT an inherent ability in mammals, let alone humans. If it were the norm, then humanity across the globe would show roughly similar levels of Lactose Tolerance.


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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 6:58 pm

CauldronBorn24 wrote:
luke112 wrote:
a few question i need to have answerd.

1. what was the Total Strenght of the Isolon Fist, Investagators, Negavian Police, and Vishtamal Security Forces in 2020 AU? by the Numbers Please.
2. What was all of the above strenghts equipment wise ( like so and so had 100 assualt jet bikes or something like that) in 2020 AU
3. what is the Average number of units of the Forces above that Fall in the Line of duty a year? (if any)
4. Just what are the Above Forces weaknesses, ( There has to be some, i mean they are human(ish) and thus have Human Flaws and if they dont then that just seems Unblanced.)
5. what could make a Isolon Fist Turn tale and run? ( Muilti answer questtion)
A. seeing an enraged Anna
B. seeing one man Brutaly Kill 11 of his sqaud Mates
C. An angry Magiocrate
D. Other ( if other please speicify on what it is)
That is all for now Gentalmen

[spolier]Here are the answers you requested; though to be honest the best answer would be No. We know you are trying to create a scenario in which your character Mac fights a onesided battle with the different Negavian forces; so really I could give you any answer but in the end it won't matter as you'll write it so that Mac would previal against all possible odds. Interesting that you use an argument off odds aginst the Isolon Fist yet you will not apply that same argument to your own character. This is getting rather tiresome, if you actually payed attention to previous answers provided by other members of the community and myself, then you would know such a battle would not take place. Of course that is using the logic we as a community tend to follow, you on the other hand seem very determinded to defie that logic for whatever reason.

Seriously, why are you using Felarya? If you want to prove that Mac and the Endorians are indeed formidable warriors, though you have gone to such extreme lengths your efforts to do so are now laughable, why not make an enemy force of your own for them to fight? Why are you so inistant they need to fight on Felarya? Why are you so inistant on pitting them against the brain childs of others, seemingly ignoring their input, and having your character prevail against all odds? If you really want to continue with 'Mac vs the World then Mac winning' trend then I HIGHLY recommend you have such affiars take place outside of Felarya. You're just pissing people off.

Felarya is about survival, yes that requires some degree of force. However going around with the Dalek mentality of trying to kill everything to ensure your survival is not the way to do so. Pitting your characters against the brain childs of others to show how powerful and awesome they are is not the way to do so; unless you want to your character to look overpowered and ridiculous within the eyes of the community. I'm sorry but you have type casted yourself in a bad way; your questions, your little quotes relating to either the Milita or characters, just about everything you post over time as resulted in this.

Any way the answers. Also please pay attention, you you may appreicate detailed answers that detail, and effort on my part, is lost if you take no heed from them.

1. More than enough to kill Mac and any accomplices. You think I'm kidding? The exact numbers are unknown and will remain unknown as that would depend on Negav's demography, and Karbo has not given exact details on Negav's population or even the number of Magiocrats; that doesn't just go for the Isolon Fists but for the Investigators and the Vishmitals as well. The only exact figure I can give you is for the Negav Police. In 2020 AU there were zero members in the Negav Police as the institution did not exist.

2. Again, more than enough to turn Mac and any accomplices into chared body parts or just remove them form Felarya completely and drop him somewhere else in the Multiverse. Considering the wide range of ablities and weapons accessable to the Isolon Fists alone, that is an accurate answer. Think of it this way; the weapons available to the Vishmitals range from laser pistols and 7.62mm assault rifles to 152.4mm artillery guns and guided missiles.

3. That is a statistic I can't come up with. By logic; considering that the Isolon Fists have to deal with the perils outside of Negav's walls, their casualty rate will be higher. Higher than what however I don't know.

4. What and having a single character take them all on and previal isn't unbalanced? Negav is humanity's main bastion on 'known' Felarya, consdiering the dnagers and perils of the world it is going to have the strength of a local super power and its forces reflect that; weaknesses in one force will be coverd by another. Any obvious weakness and the city could fall to ruin.

5. rcs619 and Jætte_Troll already covered that, there is no need to repeat what they said.

[/spolier]

No acually i just finished the rough draft oif the story and and began working on the finished product on paper, i just asked these because i was curious.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Tue May 10, 2011 7:02 pm

How many Inventions or Machines has Anna Created that actually Survived Crisis?
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Wed May 11, 2011 2:42 am

Jætte_Troll wrote:
Then I suppose the entire anthropology department at my school is wrong, as is the general world anthropology community...

The fact is, humanity has not always evolved alongside herd animals. Not until humans became pastoralists instead of hunter gatherers was an ability to process lactose at a later age developed. Simply because we hadn't "invented" drinking milk yet. Some societies never went through this pastoral heritage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#History_of_genetic_prevalence

This is the reason some societies are highly lactose tolerate and others aren't. Pure Native Americans have no history of herding animals - they have extremely high lactose intolerance levels.

The fact is that mammals at a basic level are made to reduce lactase production after weaning. To quote wikipedia -

"The normal mammalian condition is for the young of a species to experience reduced lactase production at the end of the weaning period (a species-specific length of time). In humans, in non-dairy consuming societies, lactase production usually drops about 90% during the first four years of life, although the exact drop over time varies widely"

Yes, early in life mammals are supposed to wean off of milk. I was never arguing that point, only how you were attempting to use this point for your debate and the typical overarching status people use the word intolerance for regarding whether milk should be something found in Negav.

Humans are no longer supposed to subsist off of milk after weaning, like all mammals as it is not supposed to be a staple good of a diet, and thus your lactase production levels go down significantly. This is the 'normal' mode, and I never argued that. It's still in my post. That does not mean that you are not meant to ever consume milk; humans are not 'intolerant' at birth. Mammals are meant to consume milk, thus the lactase allele is dominant genetically.

This is where my problem with your initial statement came from, as seen here:

Jaette_Troll wrote:
A surprising fact is that lactose intolerance is the "normal" state for humans - we are meant to stop drinking milk once we stop drinking from our mother's breasts.

The latter part of your statement is true for us as we belong to the mammal family and all mammals experience this. What I strictly keyed on was the first part of your statement.

Also blatant use of wiki tends to tick me off - as a nuclear operator, wiki has several nuclear accident reports jacked up and several more that aren't even included that anyone in the field would be aware of as 'major' or 'key' events. Wiki is not nor should it be a predominant source of information.

As I said before, this is one of my more dominant fetishes and so I've probably spent an unhealthy portion of time looking into it and all the aspects that arise from it, as like most other humans (the ones without the particular genetic mutation) I too have a degree of lactose intolerance. I am not able to consume certain products or volumes of milk without getting sick. I know the basics of both sides to this argument, whether or not you have ever seen them yourself because it isn't something one would particularly care to be exposed to.

Jaette_Troll wrote:
It is consuming dairy-products over a period of time that makes a group of people lactose-tolerant.

Define lactose-tolerant and lactose-intolerant.

This is the sticking point that I and others fall into, because to us 'intolerance' is too overarching a word applied to this. It's all well and good to use wikipedia as a source of information, but it is not the only source, just the most predominant source of all conglomerate information. I can make no claim to your educational departments, however the ones I went through didn't blow this out all cut and dry as you give the impression of.

Everyone (without mutation) has some degree of lactose-intolerance after being weaned off of milk, regardless of environment. There is no known method for rising a person's level of lactase production afterwards if they are from an area where consumption of milk products is low after weaning.

The mutation of chromosome 2 leads to lactase-persistence throughout life. In the case of this mutation, as I mentioned in my first post, lactase continues to be made at the higher levels. These people are called lactose-tolerant. Realistically, they should be called lactase-persistent, though the first term is not incorrect because being the latter means having the former.

Lactase-persistent means that the reduction in lactase production never declines, regardless of environment. This is not 'normal'. This type of person will always be lactose-tolerant, because they always make lactase to the same or similar degree as they did as babes. However, noone's rate of lactase production decline is supposed to go to zero, regardless of environment. After weaning people keep some level of lactase production, altered by whether or not they continue to regularly consume milk products after said weaning. Hence the environment points, why it constitutes 2/3 of the major cause.

People are still able to consume milk products to some degree after weaning regardless of the area from which they hail. Lactose-intolerance is not an all-or-nothing condition. You can also see this in other animals - for instance, cats. They are mammals as well, and suffer the same predisposition of decline in lactase production. You can however give some adult cats varying levels of milk even after reaching adulthood, environmental concerns aside.

The amount of milk product a mammal can ingest prior to experiencing problems is the defining point of lactose-intolerance, which makes the blanketing of the term ridiculous. This is where the lactose-intolerance and lactose-maldigesters terms start coming into play, and the explanations of such is out of my forte as I am not a biologist.

Jaette_Troll wrote:
Lactose Tolerance after weaning is an evolved trait by pastoralist humans, NOT an inherent ability in mammals, let alone humans. If it were the norm, then humanity across the globe would show roughly similar levels of Lactose Tolerance.

Applying what I said above about lactose tolerance and lactase persistence this statement is true; and I should have been clearer about what I meant. Regardless, the original question was not over lactose to begin with, but whether or not Negav would have milk given that pastoral living isn't something one would expect to see in Felarya.

There are plenty of other sources of milk in Felarya - perhaps ones people would be reluctant to use due to various stigma (face it, one human giantess that is lactating could provide a great volume of milk for regular sized humans, and it has the benefits of having all the natural hormones and elements humans would need that a cow's milk or other source does not) - and this is a topic that hasn't come up yet.

For instance, we're only discussing humans, natural born Felaryan humans at that (as humans that come from other realms will probably have some degree of pastoral living in their history provided they come from worlds where humans are 'the top of the chain').

Do we make the same claim for nekos and elves, since they should fall under the mammal family scientifically? Or does the changes in their genome attributing to their species/subspecies apply over to this as well? I would daresay some might argue the point for nekos just because of their own stigmas applied to the species - whether or not it would be correct to do so is something that would fall into its own separate discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Fri May 13, 2011 1:28 pm

Ok these have been bugging me for a while so im just gonna say them
1. How does Negav Feed its population? do they get their food from somewere else? Do they Grow Their own food?, Do they Use Magic to create the food? that been bugging me for awhile

2. Are there storm drains and sewars in Negav? I would think so but were are they, Are they above the undercity and below the Over city or Just Below the Undercity? and also Where does it GO? freak out

3. where do the Negavians get their water from and how? by aquaducts like the Romans? Pipes? Something Else?

4. How do they Maintian their infrastructure? Manpower? Magic? Robots? confused I dont know.

These all have been bugging me lately because i watched a special about Americas Failing infrastructer and I wanted to check to see if Negav had any of the Same problems . (possably story about a day in the Life of a city Maintience worker? Maybe)
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PostSubject: Re: General Q and A   Fri May 13, 2011 4:50 pm

luke112 wrote:
Ok these have been bugging me for a while so im just gonna say them
1. How does Negav Feed its population? do they get their food from somewere else? Do they Grow Their own food?, Do they Use Magic to create the food? that been bugging me for awhile
You can find two examples of kind of agriculture you can find in negav here, here the former is a particular breed which are cheaper to produce and the later doesn't need large space but in overall they are not the only variety of food you can find inside the city.
As any city Negav import a part of its food, which came from other worlds which posses more arable land. In another case there are some restaurants who supply themselves with the local fauna

luke112 wrote:
2. Are there storm drains and sewars in Negav? I would think so but were are they, Are they above the undercity and below the Over city or Just Below the Undercity? and also Where does it GO?

http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Negav#Districts, the description of the underground basement of the city may help you.

luke112 wrote:
3. where do the Negavians get their water from and how? by aquaducts like the Romans? Pipes? Something Else?
If you look the map Negav is built near Motamo river. In theory, supplying the town in water and evacuate the wasted water is managed in the underground basement, the system could have been built during the neko's reign before the Vishmintal arrival and was improved when they arrived. The based could be an aquaducts altered to supply the upper tier of the city

luke112 wrote:
4. How do they Maintian their infrastructure? Manpower? Magic? Robots?
I think the population of Negav has enough competence to do it.
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