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 F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)

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PostSubject: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 8:01 am

Regarding an issue that was brought up in the DA group the other day, that about standards becoming a little more important now that the group's getting bigger, I believe that there's something we could do to help things a bit. What's everyone say we point out the common problems with stories? Here's a silly idea I had. I'd bet my head there's something good in all this, despite it'll sound pretty elitist anyway.

I wanted to make a level system according to how many of the common mistakes we encountered. Grammar is usually a problem, but it's not always the only problem. I've found repetitive sentence constructions, unconnected sentences, and all that without a single ortography problem. It's beginning to make me think that we could save some time simply by directing people to the critique for their perceived level rather than retyping "work on your grammar" over and over and over again.

The rest of this is kinda tongue-in-cheek, I'd do it just because I'm crazy, but I think it'd be too upsetting to actually implement. Nonetheless... here we go.


Level One Writing- Baby Steps: (White Belt)
As we all know, grammar might be a problem. It's also infinitely easy to fix, as there are spellcheckers online, and friends who can run you through the spellchecker too. It takes ten minutes at most to check all the words in a piece; there's simply no excuse not to spellcheck AND SPELLCHECK IT RIGHT, YOU DAFT MONGREL! If I read again "and her throw pushed him lower and lower"... maybe you meant "and her throat pushed him lower and lower"? Just take your time.
Note that some people manage to include simply superlative content despite an absolutely laughable grammar. Like someone whom I'd sooner not name because I hate his work like the KKK hates niggers and faggots, and I envy his talent with a passion the likes of you mortals may never hope to match, and just thinking about him makes me turn red and green and change colors like a chameleon. That said, you're NOT him, and don't even think of naming him as an antecedent! Grammar applies to you like any other mortal, and it's a minor effort you might as well make if anyone else's enjoyment is worth SQUAT to you! Got that!?


Level Two Writing- Work Harder (Yellow Belt)
Grr... that faggot... who does he think he is... grammar... applies to you, asshole... it applies to you, no matter how good you think you are... and I fucking... hate... you...
When grammar's done and done with, when syntax is correctly used, the next step is to apply all those things they taught you in 4th grade. Remember, sentence structure is a privilege, not a right. You can make all sentences equal, but you shouldn't: that's where flow comes into play. The flow is usually the problem when grammar stops being one, and unlike grammar, it can't be helped with a spellchecker.

To make sentences flow better, every sentence should relate somehow to the last; usually, it's enough to sort those sentences by the temporal order of the events, and then make sure their structure isn't repetitive repetitive repetitive. Afterwards, you should make sure the paragraphs flow well too: remember that every paragraph is about one topic. This paragraph, for example, is about the things you can do to improve the flow of the story. Last paragraph was about why flow is important. The next paragraph, on the other hand...

Spoiler:

Legibility is also another issue you can address at this point. Adding two line breaks between paragraphs is a good idea, for example, as it helps keep the paragraphs visually apart from each other: some people catch glimpses of lines below as they read, so you'd like them to focus on a line at a time, without making the text look extravagant. You should also decide on how are you dealing with characters' lines: some like it between quotation marks, some don't; some put it inside the paragraphs "I know a guy who puts his lines inside the paragraphs reader. I hate it when he does that; did I mention that when he makes the speaker address someone he doesn't use commas?", and some don't.

"Personally" Stabby says "I prefer it when the lines are outside of a paragraph. It gives me the idea that the words are as important as the events, as I hate wasted words."

"But of course," you say "what if the words are secondary only to the events? Should they be inside of the paragraphs, then?"

-Oh, well, I don't know...- Stabby thinks, quietly. -Should I also point that some people use hyphens to represent quotations?-

"Well, I guess you'll have to experiment. Just write it, and then read it yourself, see if it works. As an alternative..." Stabby lowers his voice, and move his face closer to your ear. "...you can use a literary reference."

"A what?"

"Use a reference. Look for something that you enjoyed reading, and look carefully at how the flow was structured. Very carefully. Then replicate it. Be mindful, this isn't as well seen in literature as it is in art. Some people might even call it plagiarism... I call it a good starting point."

"Have you ever done this?"

"Of course not!" he laughs "I'm not THAT subtle. When I steal, you'll know it. For example, I stole this last idea from PrinnyDood!"

"Why don't you steal from that guy you hate so much, instead? The guy whose grammar is infuriating despite his content is excellent?"

"Grrr... UGH! AAARGH! I swear I'll BLEEPing kill that son of a BOOP..."


Level Three Writing- Once more With Feeling (Orange Belt)
Once your grammar, syntax and flow are all A-OK, you can put on a green belt, and move on to the next step, which is doing it right. Even if your flow, grammar and syntax are alright, you could still be picking the wrong words to describe something. For example, someone I'm not going to name said that the lips of someone's womanhood did not look like a scrotum. Ergh. Wrong pick of words, mister. Unless you're into trannies and don't mind the mental image. "When she took off her panties, it totally didn't look like she had balls" is not hot. Be mindful of what you compare things to, and keep in mind that there is such a thing as synonims. Different words have different meanings, even if they represent the same thing- so use the words and expressions with the right connotations. Keep in mind that good writing is supposed to make you FEEL something, so... what did I just say? Now once more with feeling!

"I would like nothing better than to know what's in your heart, but words come between us. And as much as I would simply reach out and feel inside you, there's no other way to do it but with words. Fifty words, sixty or a hundred will never do unless they're the right ones. Which words are right, alas, we'll never know- we can only live on, wishing to stumble upon the ones that'll let me walk alongside you, across the bridge of réverie that you cross every night and dream about every day. I dare ask you to become better every day, so that one day we may finally be truly together- the words that come between us shall, that day, become the bridge, so that we may feel our hearts as one heart, and our minds as one mind."

See? I still haven't gotten this one right. I should've tried again, it's too much wishy-washy (asking people to write better should not be wishy-washy! It should be inspiring!). In my case, most of my stories are about being witty, because what lies inside my heart isn't pretty: I'm mostly resentment, hate, regret, despair, disdain, powerlessness, fear, panic- you want to feel some of that? Well, don't look for it in my stories, I aim for heartwarming at best!

A piece of advice I got from a pal before I became uncle pervy... think of a song. Listen to a song as you write. Or an album, something that helps you focus on the right mood. If you're writing a battle, Metallica works just peachy. Myself, I listen to Mecano- they were creepy, just like me! Those guys could make suicide look jolly... and they're the ones who first said "fifty words, sixty or a hundred" like above. Obscure references can pass for originality sometimes- try it out!

Of course, you see that I made a very big paragraph just to say "say it right, with feeling, and make me feel what you feel"? That's another problem, but it's minor- keep your priorities straight. If half of a story's length is vore scenes, that makes it a vore story, for instance. Don't go at length on what isn't important unless you're sure it's a good idea to do so. Going overboard with a story's length can dillute the feeling- an usual solution is to put almost all of the feeling in the end- you know, like the punchline at the end of a joke, or just before the end. All of those things have their advantages and disadvantages; if a description adds nothing to a story, maybe you could make it shorter unless it has a purpose. There's some people who make do almost without describing anything like a cEERTAIN BLOODY FRUCKING- GRR...


Level Four Writing- Work Good (Green and blue Belts)
Please! It's just you're envious of him because he's exactly like you, only better! He doesn't need to be funny, his writing is ten times hotter, and he's not shy at all about anything! Come on, he did 90 kb of giantess sex, can you do that, Stabby? Bet you wouldn't last a paragraph before she asked when were you planning to start! You couldn't satisfy a reader, much less a woman! If it were a woman reader then I'd bet she'd crawl into his arms after meeting you!

Ahem- my brain and I were arguing. I've told you that grammar comes first, then syntax and flow... afterwards you have to work on the feeling. This order of priorities is only mine, though- to some people, characterization and plot come before grammar. I personally am of the opinion that you have to work on those things before plot and characters: if you don't know what feeling you're trying to convey... if all you can do is play your characters in a plot, I don't know, it just doesn't sit right with me to waste good characterization on a bad story, it'll be like the Street Fighter Live-Action movie. 'For the critics, it sucked. But for me... it was Tuesday'. Either way, plot and characterization are the next order of business to tackle.

They say "write what you know" and that's what they mean. Self-inserts are just peachy- just remember that you've never flown, eaten another person, cast a fireball, transformed into a dragon, and I'd bet you've never had anyone at your mercy in any way at all. So self-inserts can only get you so far; eventually, you'll need another person, probably one you made up. Keep in mind, then, that most people like characters who act intelligently. Though I can't rightfully argue anything wrong with stupid characters, people can only relate to morons so much. For the record, this isn't catering to the masses, it's just good form. Art is supposed to convey feelings, but feeling stupid doesn't count.

So make sure your characters are working to the full extent of their intelligences, first of all. And make sure they're detailed. A good way to tell if they're detailed is to make a list of things they would and wouldn't do. Do they get up to get a glass of water, or do they ask their mother/brother/father? Do they put off homework to play videogames? What about during the exams? Do they have any hobbies? Do they have problems concentrating? How did they come upon their current profession? Would they wade around a broken bridge, try to fix it, or would they call city hall about it?

A more blunt way of putting it would be, "would they do everything the plot requires of them?" If your answer is "yes", you might be up for something bland. Spice it up a bit, try to explain it, and work the explanations into the plot. Don't simply make them say "I did X for Y reason" every time something needs an explanation. "Show, don't tell" is a good maxim at first. Don't tell us- show us. If someone is troubled, don't make her say she's troubled, and don't use the 3rd person omniscient to tell us she's troubled until she's been shown to be troubled. Even better, "don't show, suggest". Though this maxim is more important in lingerie design than in writing, it works peachy anyway to engage lusts: the more you leave to imagination, the more we'll imagine. Since everything here is make-believe, you should decide how much of what are you leaving to our diseased imaginations.


Level Five- You're Kinda Okay (Black Belt)

The black belt is when all the basic techniques have been mastered. Note, however, that black belts are only the first step in a series of mastery levels. A black belt means your journey has just begun: regular black belts are just 1st dans. There are very few masters of 5th dan or higher. Anyone claiming to be a 10th dan is considered fake unless they have a reputation to match or can prove their level with some sort of documentation -winning a fight against a 9th dan doesn't help here. Your skill as a brawler isn't the issue.-; furthermore, if you're a 10th dan under 40 years old, you're going to get looked at with serious skepticism. And then people are going to look at the belt system with serious skepticism. Expect someone to give up on their black belt route, and turn into an assassin who'll turn on your master. (Text taken from GURPS Martial Arts and modified to avoid lawsuits and to take the mickey out of it.)

Now that you've gotten to this point, here's a fun thing you can try. Do you know what an author tract is? I'm sure you've seen a few things on that vein. Well, don't. If you're mooching advice off the net, you really have no business doing that, no offense meant. Try to make a story with a point now, a message or something: give it something to take home with you. Something that'll stay after the story's gone, an overarching theme to go with that feel! Like they say in White Wolf's games, you need both a theme and a mood. If you can evoke that mood while working with a theme, you'll have completed the Rasen-shuriken technique! Wait, not that. Well, it's a nice goal.

At this point, I think we can start working with universe-specific rules. Not to say that you can't work with it until you've crossed all the previous lines, but still, at this point, we'll expect you, who is now supposed to be an okay writer, to abide by rules about what goes and what doesn't. This is about fanfics more than anything else, since I've said "universe-specific" after all. If you're making your own everything, then you can screw what I think I know after this point.



Level Five with Stars- Actually Good Writing (Black belt, above 1-dan)

If you score high enough, you can unlock this secret level. Good luck!


So according to this system I've thought up, I'd be round level three, since I still have to work at evoking feelings, while Timing2 is a 3-dan black belt, and *BLEEEP* makes me angry, but only because he's a better writer than I feel he has the right to be and I'm seriously eating my heart out. He's not a part of Felarya- and if you know what's good for you, you're not going to move a finger to change that.

Either way, it should be a nice kickstarter. After reading this, does anyone feel like addressing the topic seriously? If so, please do it. I really can't start seriously without discarding this overly long gag about this moron who has superb content despite his grammar is horrible, and sometimes I feel he's unsubtle, and... and I feel it'd be a shame to see this gag go to waste after I typed up so much of it.
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Anime-Junkie
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 8:11 am

Kaboom? Really, that's all you could come up with?

Just something to add to this:

  • Don't get complacent. People on dA have a tendency to congratulate authors on any piece of writing as long as it is a language they can read and uses real words.
  • Don't say tl;dr at long critiques. Chances are if it's long it will contain information that you can use to really improve your writing.


Last edited by Anime-Junkie on Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 8:23 am

People on DA Hardly READ any writing. >.>
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 10:09 am

That all sounds needlessly complicated and padded.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 10:10 am

Yeah, it does seem a bit tl;dr. Ya might wanna narrow it down into a few bullet points for maximum efficiency.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 11:15 am

I'm also going to say that is a bit too rigid for something that's subjective. Sure, you got some good points with grammar, syntax and flow, but some of this stuff should be gained by experience. You can't exactly tell what words convey feelings better since that's open to suggestion. Those should be picked by reading other peoples' work and there are two things that you should have mentioned:

1. Show, don't tell. While telling is fine, it doesn't convey a very detailed picture of a scene or an assessment of someone's emotions.

2. Less is more. This is something I should have followed early on, but I learned since then. Do not put too much descriptions for only one scene. If you do, you're going to slow the plot to a grinding halt. Don't use too poetic words and never abuse them. Because it sounds good to the ear doesn't mean your readers will understand it right away, and if it applies to an entire story, you will usher in confusion. A work of literature should be descriptive without too many words, while as clear as crystal water.

So if you allow me to sum up your train of thoughts, here's how it'd go:


1- Correct your grammar

This is what I usually do when I finish a story. Typos are inevitable, which is why we have spellcheckers in the first place. It isn't as long as most people think and it makes your work look more professional.

2- Edit your syntax

Just as grammar, syntax errors are common, but this should apply to narration as a character's speech pattern is more forgivable. After all, nobody talks as well as a best-selling novel. Remember the traditional sentence structure: Subject, verb, complement. A sentence needs at least these three components.

3- Edit your flow

This is something else that I picked up later, but when you write a sentence, it should sound smooth. In general, avoid sentences as such, "Because I ran out of gas, I didn't make it to my appointment." and instead use "I didn't make it to my appointment because I ran out of gas." However, this isn't a set-in-stone rule. Pick whatever sounds more fluid. In addition to the flow is pacing. You should pace your sentence structures according to the mood of a scene. Emotional scenes or of importance to the characters should use longer sentences with more description to make it slower. Action scenes such as a chase or a fight should use shorter sentences with less adjectives to make it faster. Remember to always slow down the pace after a fast paced sequence. So if you can make a sentence flow better, do say in the editting process, but remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So don't abuse it and rewritte sentences that don't need unnecessary polishing.

4- Show, don't tell

The best way to convey feelings is by showing rather than telling. Saying, "She was angry" is straight forward, but says little. But if you write, "She clenched her hand into a fist and slammed it into the trunk. Her fangs and and black face wouldn't go unnoticed." See how that last one says more? But remember, do not overdo it. You can describe that the desert is hot or that they reached the beach, but you don't have to put everything. As a rule of thumb, if you're going to use the five senses to describe a zone, don't use all five, use about two or three. If you put long descriptions for all fives, you'll just grind the flow to a halt. As a corollary, don't abuse showing. Showing takes much more space and time than telling, so it's best that you tell for scenes that are irrelevant to a scene. If nothing is going to happen while driving to his work, just tell that he drove to his work to keep the word count to a bearable level.

5- Do the research

You know the maxim "Write what you know"? Well, what you may not know, others might, so don't be shy to ask around for pointers. You're going to look like an idiot if you claim something is this, didn't check it out first, and it turns out you were way off. Wikipedia and Google are great research tools, but if you can, don't be afraid to ask a buddy who knows his things in the field, it will save you some embarrassement.

6- Basic plot

The most basic plot goes like this "Protagonist wants something badly and has trouble getting it". You need to think of a motivation for your character to acheive a goal and let the story write itself. Don't attempt something complicated at first, you'll just overwhelm yourself. Think of something basic, and as you write it, then you can think of plot twists and maybe a new, bigger goal for your characters. While setting and character building should be at the jurisdiction of the creator, remember this: be consistent. Breaking the rules of a setting and forcing a character to act against their preconceived personality to obtain a specific outcome are some of the most frustrating things that can happen in any story. Character growth isn't the same as mutation. The events of the story shapes and changes the character's perspective, that's character development. But keep in mind that a character's amount of detail should be relevant to its importance to the story. If a character isn't all that important, it's not bad that s/he is flat. Last tip: because it sounds cool doesn't mean it works. When you think of a concept or theme, make sure it matches the setting. In fact, you should think of a concept or theme and then forge the world around it. Dragon Ball Z fights doesn't exactly fit in a world ruled by self-aware machines. It's good to be unique, but if you try too hard, your creations will simply feel out of place.

7- Practice makes Perfect

There is always room for improvement. Keep reading stories from different authors. You're going to find techniques they use that you can incorporate in your own to improve its quality. Don't be afraid to experiement, as one who risks nothing gains nothing. It will be rough around the edges at first, but a wise man once said: We all gotta start from somewhere.


Just curious, but aside for the big paragraphs, where did you rank Elementalist Training?
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Oct 25, 2010 1:17 pm

Frankly, I ranked Elementalist Training as "Once more with feeling".

It's subjective, though- maybe I interrogated it while in a bad mood, and was unreceptive to its contents. Either way, I can only read it a first time once.

And as I said before, Sean, that system was tongue-in-cheek.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeTue Oct 26, 2010 12:50 am

Hmmmm... 90Kb of giantess sex you say? Where can I find this guy?

Also, I agree with what you've said so far. I know I'm not the greatest writer, but if I might contribute something:

Read a lot.

Seriously. Nothing helps you understand things like flow, syntax and grammar than reading the great works of successful writers.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeTue Oct 26, 2010 4:24 am

EdgedWeapon wrote:


Read a lot.

Seriously. Nothing helps you understand things like flow, syntax and grammar than reading the great works of successful writers.

Behold, the one called Edgedweapon speaks the truth.

If you want to be good at writing, read. I read novels pretty much constantly to try and improve my writing. It definitely helps.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Nov 01, 2010 9:06 am

EdgedWeapon wrote:
Hmmmm... 90Kb of giantess sex you say? Where can I find this guy?

Over my dead body.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2010 11:55 am

Ah, leave it to you to take a few sentences and stretch them to half a page. Nice to know I'm not the only one who does it.

That's not really a bad thing, though. Having little asides may seem off-topic, but they're like the contradictory spice that zaps your tongue every so often when you're eating an exotic dish. It's new, it's unexpected, and it breaks up the carbs that form the base. That's really just my attempt at fancy writing; what I'm really trying to say is that you need to make content interesting, especially when you're trying to get a point across. Do you think Rush would have been popular if all their message-laden songs had shit rhythm and style? No, probably not. So Neil Peart wrote up his meaningful lyrics, and then came together with Geddy and Big Al to make some of the best prog rock you'll ever find.

I don't really know where I'd place myself. I'd like to think that I've got the grammatical basics down pat, but I know I've got plenty of room to improve. See, while I agree grammar's important, I think style can really affect just how important it is. In a character's speech, for instance, an author may use faulty grammar on purpose, since it would fit for the character.

Sean's right when it comes to experience. Reading the works of better authors can really help you out when you're not sure why your sentences don't flow well. This doesn't apply to just Felarya writers, though.
Spoiler:

Also, Stabby, I should point something out...
Stabs wrote:
keep in mind that there is such a thing as synonims
For someone who touts the usefulness of spell-checking, you misspelled "synonyms".
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 7:14 am

Ah, será que escribí sinónimo, por ahí. A eso se le dice "false friends" en inglés, son palabras que se o bien se escriben de manera similar pero no igual, o que se escriben casi igual y significan cosas diferentes. Bueno, igual no tengo excusa para esto... sí, lo escribí mal.

Translation: Fuck you.
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PostSubject: Re: F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom)   F.E.C.K. (Frequently Encountered Complaints Kaboom) Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 2:02 pm

Hm, using my limited understanding of Spanish, I was able to glean at least the basic meaning of that. Well, more accurately, I was able to recognize a few word sequences.
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