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 The size of Negav

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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:23 am

I looked at Negav's entry and at the map. If we were to give the scaling of Felarya as very big, Negav would appear to be I think close to New York City. However, Negav covers only 90 square miles. New York City's land area covers about 305 square miles. Do you think Negav should be bigger than 90 square miles? Because I think it looks too small for a metropolis.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:54 am

I think it's been said somewhere that the map is not to scale.
I take that further and say that certain things in the map are not to scale with the rest of the map either. Negav is one of those things.

The Felaryan map only shows the location of things.

However I do think it would be a good idea for Negav to cover a bit more ground. But don't forget that they also have height an depth. There's the underground and the pit as well as towering buildings.
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AisuKaiko
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:38 am

Perhaps I'm being a bit naive, but I can't see Negav being New York-sized. I once spent hours driving lost in the city of Flint, which is only 7% the size of New York, and several times more crime-ridden. I just can't see Negav much larger than that, considering its desolate location and tightly packed populace... Flint is only 24 sq. mi., though, not a massive city, but if I could get hopelessly lost in it...
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:47 am

If we take Negav as completely circular, its diameter would be about 9.5 miles, which is about as much the same of a small city. Given that Negav houses so many services and people from multiple worlds, 90 square miles is a tight squeeze. I could see it being about 180 or 200 square miles at least if only to make it large enough to house so many people.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:16 am

AisuKaiko wrote:
I once spent hours driving lost in the city of Flint, which is only 7% the size of New York, and several times more crime-ridden. I just can't see Negav much larger than that, considering its desolate location and tightly packed populace... Flint is only 24 sq. mi., though, not a massive city, but if I could get hopelessly lost in it...

Flint, the fake birthplace of director, tub'o lard and all round asshole Michael Moore.

I have to disagree though (about Negav, not Michael Moore). Don't forget that Negav has several large, sprawling districts. It is the only reasonably safe place on all of Negav (while the sun's up at least) so everything small enough to fit in Crisis's mouth would move there. That means there'd have to be a lot of space in Negav, besides all the extra area needed for tourists.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:24 am

Um, no. The entire city is 90 square miles. The many districts one the surface would again be comparable to a small city. Quebec City is almost twice the size as Negav, and its population is roughly over 491 000 habitants. Quebec's size is something that would be very comparable to how large Megav is hyped, but even so, I'm sure Negav has easily over twice as many habitants. 90 square miles is not large. In fact, I would say that, if you were to give Negav the official status of Capital, it would be among the smallest capitals in existence
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AisuKaiko
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:32 am

EdgedWeapon wrote:
AisuKaiko wrote:
I once spent hours driving lost in the city of Flint, which is only 7% the size of New York, and several times more crime-ridden. I just can't see Negav much larger than that, considering its desolate location and tightly packed populace... Flint is only 24 sq. mi., though, not a massive city, but if I could get hopelessly lost in it...

Flint, the fake birthplace of director, tub'o lard and all round asshole Michael Moore.

I have to disagree though (about Negav, not Michael Moore). Don't forget that Negav has several large, sprawling districts. It is the only reasonably safe place on all of Negav (while the sun's up at least) so everything small enough to fit in Crisis's mouth would move there. That means there'd have to be a lot of space in Negav, besides all the extra area needed for tourists.

Well, technically, Michael Moore grew up in Davison, a suburb of Flint.

How do I know this...?

Because that's where I live.

Yeah, you're right, perhaps I was being naive about city size. I could see it being about 100 sq. miles, tall apartment buildings and a deep, crowded Pit, personally, with a few awkwardly added districts around the perimeter of the city.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:08 pm

I imagine Negav as being decent sized. I never thought it to be as big as New York, but still it should be big enough to get lost in without directions.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:23 pm

Pendragon wrote:
I imagine Negav as being decent sized. I never thought it to be as big as New York, but still it should be big enough to get lost in without directions.

It's quite possible to get lost in woods that are only 5 square miles big I would imagine negav to at least be as large as a major continent seeing as everything is pretty massive out there.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:42 pm

Here's something else: the wiki says that it's thanks to the Ascarlin mountains, which gave Negav a great source of Ascarlin, that allowed the city to grow. Well, there are a lot of cities on Earth who aren't remotely as rich as Negav, and yet still larger. It's why it's only 90 square miles, and yet has such a massive economy, that it doesn't match. I'm sure a city of this size is impressive in Felarya, but not on Earth. Negav is usually described as massive and marvelous, when in reality, it covers barely more ground than Osaka. But if you take any habitant from a large city on Earth like New York or Hong Kong, they would be impressed by the architecture and mixture of magic and science, but not the size.

I am aware that the Guardians would level the city if it got too big, but 90 square miles may be impressive in Felarya, but it would be dwarfed anywhere else but Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:05 pm

Actually, as far as I know population densities have never been determined for Negav. So comparing it to cities on Earth isn't going to work out.


If I were to use the wiki picture of Negav, I would indeed think of the city as being rather small. Granted, it probably isn't drawn to the appropriate scale but if you compare the size of the people walking up to the gate and the height of the city, you aren't going to be thinking about something like NY.


As Americans, we tend to be spoiled in regards to city size and space. America has lots of area to use - other countries do not. Their cities are limited in their growth, much like Negav here, though for very different reasons. So lets use a RL example that makes more sense - Tokyo. Tokyo consists of 23 prefectures that are each in their own right a city and are governed as separate municipalities. Let us examine land mass and population there, shall we?


Name↓ Pop.*↓ Density(/km˛)↓ Area(km˛)↓
Adachi 629,392 11,830.68 53.20
Arakawa 194,777 18,262.25 10.20
Bunkyō 194,933 16,009.28 11.31
Chiyoda 43,802 3,763.06 11.64
Chūō 104,997 10,344.53 10.15
Edogawa 661,386 13,264.86 49.86
Itabashi 529,059 16,445.72 32.17
Katsushika 428,066 12,286.62 34.84
Kita 330,646 15,885.67 20.59
Kōtō 436,337 10,963.24 39.8
Meguro 267,798 18,217.55 14.70
Minato 205,196 10,088.30 20.34
Nakano 312,939 20,097.82 15.59
Nerima 702,202 14,580.61 48.16
Ōta 674,590 11,345.27 59.46
Setagaya 855,416 14,728.23 58.08
Shibuya 205,512 13,337.13 15.11
Shinagawa 353,887 15,576.01 22.72
Shinjuku 309,463 16,975.48 18.23
Suginami 534,981 15,725.49 34.02
Sumida 237,433 16,079.49 13.75
Toshima 256,009 19,428.44 13.01
Taitō 168,277 16,139.38 10.08
Overall 8,637,098 13,890.25 621.81


Remember, the above numbers are in kilometers squared. Not miles. Converted, it becomes 240.08 sq miles total, with the largest prefecture being a mere 22.9576 sq miles and still heralding a nice population density of over half a million souls. So is 90 sq miles plausible? Absolutely. Japan is what I see more of Negav being - extremely dense, layer upon layer, above and below ground. Living space is a premium, and only those with massive amounts of wealth can afford even what Americans would consider to be normal living quarters. Negav is protected by the Isolon Eye, recall - and you complained earlier that the city would only have a diameter of ~9.5ish miles - which is going to have a radius of effect, and the map shows the city in roughly a circular shape. Also recall that the Isolon Eye's effects extend past the city. Now, I know its a great magical artifact and all, but how great is this artifact? Something that maintains a sphere of protection greater than 10 miles in diameter for 24/7 is already bordering on insanely broken. Even though it is not by any means a perfect defense, its a godly defense, and now you want to expand the size of the city, thus expanding the size of the Eye's effect field several fold? Nay, I say. Nay.


Last edited by aethernavale on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:08 pm

Hmm... interesting. Out of curiosity, can you give me the formula to do miles/km conversions? Oh, by the way, I checked for NYC on wikipedia and it had a City Area coverage, which was larger than a Land Area coverage. What is the difference between the two?
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:13 pm

THere's Land and Water. City Area is both of those together, it looks like
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:22 pm

KM to MI conversion table



And actually my above numbers are a bit off. The size of the city is only 240.1 sq miles. Rookie math mistake. Will update to reflect actual size.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:28 pm

Don't forget scale seeing as each tree is in it's own right a sky scraper.
I get how the populations of the citys would be kept low due to the dangerous environment.

Also at say crysis's size traveling across japan would take less than a day if not I say it would take her 6 hours due to scale of her to the environment space is precious because so much of it is untamed and wild with extremely dangerous creatures at every corner.

You know I think it would fairer to compare Felarya to Australia as on scale of land which for a plane of existence I consider to be tiny on another note if you take a ship out to the see and keep sailing would you fall off?

I'm going to have to sleep on this one
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:31 pm

AisuKaiko wrote:
THere's Land and Water. City Area is both of those together, it looks like


If you do the math the numbers come up a bit short with what is represented on Wiki, but who knows. I'm not an expert at city classifications, and it really depends on how the government defines a municipality.


Kai Leingod wrote:
Don't forget scale seeing as each tree is in it's own right a sky scraper.
I get how the populations of the citys would be kept low due to the dangerous environment.

Also at say crysis's size traveling across japan would take less than a day if not I say it would take her 6 hours due to scale of her to the environment space is precious because so much of it is untamed and wild with extremely dangerous creatures at every corner.

You know I think it would fairer to compare Felarya to Australia as on scale of land which for a plane of existence I consider to be tiny on another note if you take a ship out to the see and keep sailing would you fall off?

I'm going to have to sleep on this one


Also Kai, reading comprehension. I said Negav is like Japan, not Felarya is like Japan. Felarya is massive, doesn't consist of planetary curves as it's not of a planet, and as far as we know extends to infinity in all directions.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:37 pm

Okay, thanks for the converter.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:47 pm

Sorry aethernavale must have read it wrong I sometimes do that sorry for that in that case it's bloody huge for a capital.
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PostSubject: Re: The size of Negav   Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:32 pm

Having been stationed in Japan for four years, I can definitively say that place is a great example of how Negave should grow. When working with so little space, the city has to grow vertically. There are so many buildings and people crammed into the trains, stores, and forget about waiting in line for ANYTHING. Its claustrophobic at least. Cars become impracticale; bikes and public transport such as trains (ground running or raised track) make more sense.
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