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Malahite
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:09 pm

rcs619 wrote:
Quote :
You don't channel magic more easily if you are bigger, and the wiki flat-out says that a fairy's magic capacity doesn't change when growing or shrinking.

Quote :
So, in regard to this: How much weaker do you say a Fairy's shrinking spell-powers become during a change in size?

Both of these are kind of related.

The important thing to remember about a fairy's size-shifting is that, technically, a Fairy NEVER actually changes size. Their size-shifting is a form of dimensional magic. The Fairy itself never grows or shrinks, they just change their scale in relation to the universe. This change in scale also changes the relative power of their magic as well. A Fairy's magic doesn't grow "stronger or weaker" with size, it stays exactly the same. It is the scale that changes.
I'm not asking in regard to changing their own size, I mean in regard to shrinking others. We've had discussions on just how big a size something a Fairy shrinks can be. Where we got that 4m number, for example.

Using size = power, you have to redefine what those limits are, as they immediately change with a size change (well, scale change). That, or you have to redefine the magic of everyone else when they do so (as someone's magic is no longer static, either they're proportionally changing it so that they're smaller and another being can do more damage to them, or they're making themselves proportionally larger and toning down the power a large creature can put out. Otherwise, they would be just as durable large as they would small). Do they make Giant Predators weaker when they change the universe to their (the Fairy's) favor? Do "Prey" get stronger the smaller they get?

rcs619 wrote:
Keep in mind that the actual size-changing magic seems to be completely different from most other forms of magic, which is why it remains constant no matter the size of a fairy.
If such is the case, then there are examples of magic that are irrelevant to size. In such regard, we need to define them. If I had to guess, illusionary spells would probably fall under this field, or at least be much less / minimally affected.

rcs619 wrote:
This is why a Fairy can shrink humans, backpacks, clothes, food, tigers, crocodiles and so on...but could never shrink a Kensha Beast.
But Karbo stated that size to be an average, at one point, and there to be Fairies with more / less power who can shift larger / smaller targets. Meaning it's less a limitation of the spell, and more a limitation of the caster.

... How does this work with Fairy perspective? Grah, now I've got a headache as I go from one perspective having "true" sizes, to several, meaning as one shrinks and another grows we...



rcs619 wrote:
It is just far too large to be affected. I wouldn't be suprised if the target's magical field has some affect as well, which would mean that an extremely powerful mage could be semi-resistant to it, and maybe hold off its effects long enough to launch some kind of counter. Of course, this would be an arch-mage, or a Magiocrat. I doubt even Isolon Fist battlemages could even come close to doing something like that.
I don't see why one would need to be an arch-mage to immediately stop a Fairy. Playing off the "size matters", if a Fairy's true size is more akin to that of an average human (but they prefer to make themselves proportionally larger, due to their particular dietary choices), where does the argument come from that a Fairy should immediately overcome anyone short of an arch-mage? Magical talent being high enough that each Fairy is on average akin to an Arch-Mage? If such is the case, what would happen if a "true" size fairy were born the size of a Giant? Would that explain the one Guardian? Would simply a large enough "natural" Fairy become godly in power?

rcs619 wrote:
Hmm, in special situations, I could see the portal-blade technique being possible. That kind of ability may require a forced override of the process by which portals usually work, which means the mage would need to concentrate a lot harder than usual and expend more energy than normal to hold it in that state. This would turn it into more of a last-ditch, special circumstance type of ability, instead of something that would be used often.
Add in that most probably you're going to need to combine several spells at once, or an extremely unintelligent enemy / attacker, and that's another con against it. Creating a portal, already a bit taxing. Creating a portal, then TKing a human-sized target back into it? Bit more complex.

rcs619 wrote:
Yep. That would, if portals can even be used in such a way, limit the cutting to thinner limbs. Fingers, hands, arms and so on. You could still cause devastating damage, but there would be restrictions in place so someone couldn't just insta-decapitate a predator or something.
The decapitation would theoretically be possible, but in such cases you probably are speaking an Arch-Mage or the use of some magical artifact. Head's something like, what, 1/8th the height? Assuming a more round head, a Giant Predator could have their head nearly 20' (obviously not quite that big) round, which would require quite a large portal so as to fit in properly. "Scalping" would be possible, but extremely difficult for obvious reasons (try convincing a Predator to stick the top of their head in an odd looking portal, see how likely they are to agree).

rcs619 wrote:
I could honestly see that ability being even more useful as a negotiation aid. If you lop of a predator's limb, there's going to be screaming, and blood, and all her friends from miles around coming to help. But if you can trap the limb, and hold it still...well...then, you could very well open up negotiations, since most predators ARE going to want to save their arm.
Plus, it allows you to put the very helpful "Further than a Predator can lash out" distance between you if you think they won't hold up to their end of the bargain. Bit of prudence never hurt, and it's within the Predator's interest at the time (provided your portal is lacking the safety preventing "slicey-slicey" should you die / the spell end) to make sure you don't die either. "Give me a map to navigate out of your Dridder lair, and I shall de-activate the spell once I'm out." "Sure, let me j-" "And if I die, or lose consciousness, the spell ends and your arm winds up on your good ol' friend at Negav's doorstep." "Actually, the way you want to take is..."
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:14 pm

I'm just going to drop thus in hear…

Fairies when they increase in size that there wings the mana batteries (in lack of a better term) can draw in a much greater amounts of magic to fuel spells. From what I have seen of fairies is that they are carefree. Looking to have fun and generally live wild so maybe when they wizen up they take on larger forms on a more permanent basis.

Edit: oh yes maybe because of the new found strength in there larger form they aren't wise enough to control that much raw magical energie that's why they could jump around in size so often. Just a thought.

It's the most logical thing I can think of.


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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:16 pm

Kai Leingod wrote:
I'm just going to drop thus in hear…

Fairies when they increase in size that there wings the mana batteries (in lack of a better term) can draw in a much greater amounts of magic to fuel spells. From what I have seen of fairies is that they are carefree. Looking to have fun and generally live wild so maybe when they wizen up they take on larger forms on a more permanent basis.

It's the most logical thing I can think of.
That has been shot to Hell. Since a fairy doesn't really grow, their magic capacity doesn't change. It's in the wiki.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:27 pm

I believe that a Fairy's wings are more that focusing arrays for magic. This makes more sense than magical capacitors since there's no reason for them as Felarya has magical energy everywhere.

There's no problem with storing magic, you don't really need to. All that's required is to be able to access it.
So basically, A fairy's wings allow her to draw huge amounts of magic from her surroundings, since size changing magic is very power intensive. This is one of the reasons why only faeries, divinities and super advanced (extremely rare) ancient artefacts can perform size changing magic.


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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:28 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Kai Leingod wrote:
I'm just going to drop thus in hear…

Fairies when they increase in size that there wings the mana batteries (in lack of a better term) can draw in a much greater amounts of magic to fuel spells. From what I have seen of fairies is that they are carefree. Looking to have fun and generally live wild so maybe when they wizen up they take on larger forms on a more permanent basis.

It's the most logical thing I can think of.
That has been shot to Hell. Since a fairy doesn't really grow, their magic capacity doesn't change. It's in the wiki.

Right O' I'll shut my trap will read wiki all the way through.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Anime-Junkie wrote:
I believe that a Fairy's wings are more that focusing arrays for magic. This makes more sense than magical capacitors since there's no reason for them as Felarya has magical energy everywhere. The issue then is being able to 'harvest,' focus and use it.
So basically, A fairy's wings allow her to draw huge amounts of magic from her surroundings, since size changing magic is very power intensive. This is one of the reasons why only faeries, divinities and super advanced (extremely rare) ancient artefacts.
Why they are what?
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:21 pm

Quote :
Using size = power, you have to redefine what those limits are, as they immediately change with a size change (well, scale change). That, or you have to redefine the magic of everyone else when they do so (as someone's magic is no longer static, either they're proportionally changing it so that they're smaller and another being can do more damage to them, or they're making themselves proportionally larger and toning down the power a large creature can put out. Otherwise, they would be just as durable large as they would small). Do they make Giant Predators weaker when they change the universe to their (the Fairy's) favor? Do "Prey" get stronger the smaller they get?

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. All you need to think about is scale. When a Fairy scales up or down, or he/she scales something down, all their stats...their strength, speed, magic, etc, scale down accordingly. A mightly barbarian may be able to pick up a horse, but if he gets scaled down by a fairy to 3 inches tall, well, he wouldn't even be able to push back one of her fingers if she pinned him down with it.

Nothing actually grows or shrinks with fairy magic. All that changes is the scale.

Quote :
If such is the case, then there are examples of magic that are irrelevant to size. In such regard, we need to define them. If I had to guess, illusionary spells would probably fall under this field, or at least be much less / minimally affected.

To a degree, probably. There's going to be limitations though. Like, there's no way a Neera could ever cast an illusion onto a giant predator. The pred is just too massive, and their own magical field would be far too strong to be overcome by the magic of a Neera.

Quote :
But Karbo stated that size to be an average, at one point, and there to be Fairies with more / less power who can shift larger / smaller targets. Meaning it's less a limitation of the spell, and more a limitation of the caster.

... How does this work with Fairy perspective? Grah, now I've got a headache as I go from one perspective having "true" sizes, to several, meaning as one shrinks and another grows we...

Yes, there are those with more or less power...but there are still limits. Nemyra is the ONLY known Fairy that could shrink Kenshas, Marsh Vipers, and even the giant hybrids. The rest of the Fairies will vary in power, but there is a certain threshold that they just cannot cross.

Fairy magic is constant. It doesn't grow or weaken with the user. A fairy could be 4 inches tall, or she could be 100ft tall, the size limit on her powers is the same. It has to be, or they'd be able to go around shrinking other giant predators when they are giant. Dimensional magic is seperate from more conventional types, and follows its own rules.

Quote :
I don't see why one would need to be an arch-mage to immediately stop a Fairy. Playing off the "size matters", if a Fairy's true size is more akin to that of an average human (but they prefer to make themselves proportionally larger, due to their particular dietary choices), where does the argument come from that a Fairy should immediately overcome anyone short of an arch-mage?

The dimensional magic that fairies use is extremely powerful. They need to use their wings as magical focusing arrays to even use it. It isn't that the fairy is necissarily a much stronger mage, its that she is using a much stronger form of magic. Since that magic is so much stronger than the norm, it would take a considerably powerful mage to be able to resist it.

As far as conventional magic goes, Fairies would likely be on par with the average, well-trained mage from Negav...with variances in power and skill on both sides, of course. Their big trump card is the dimensional magic though, it is just very, very powerful.

Quote :
Magical talent being high enough that each Fairy is on average akin to an Arch-Mage? If such is the case, what would happen if a "true" size fairy were born the size of a Giant? Would that explain the one Guardian? Would simply a large enough "natural" Fairy become godly in power?

Nope. Fairies are going to be more magically skilled than most predator races, and some probably would be on the level of wht humans consider an Arch-mage...but not all would be. Their powers and skill would vary just as much as it does with humans. There is no "true" fairy size. They see the universe in terms of scale, not size. As far as a Fairy is concerned, her magic power never changes, she never runs or flies any faster or slower, etc. She stays the same, and the scale of the universe just changes around her.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:51 am

Quote :
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. All you need to think about is scale. When a Fairy scales up or down, or he/she scales something down, all their stats...their strength, speed, magic, etc, scale down accordingly. A mightly barbarian may be able to pick up a horse, but if he gets scaled down by a fairy to 3 inches tall, well, he wouldn't even be able to push back one of her fingers if she pinned him down with it.

Nothing actually grows or shrinks with fairy magic. All that changes is the scale.

yes, definitely scale is very important. it would not make sense if that scale wouldn't go down too. when it comes to size, something larger is (for 99% of the time I'm sure) stronger. Proportionately insects can carry and lift several times their weight, but that doesn't mean they're stronger than we are. They just have more strength relevant to their bodies, regardless of the actual size.

The similar thing can be said for magic as well. If a neko uses a fire spell and a giant predator uses one too for comparison the giant predator's spell will be more powerful because of how much more magic they have. I say this specifically because I have seen occasionally people exclaiming how it doesn't matter how big someone is compared to another person. The amount of magic in a large predator would not equal the amount of magic in a smaller creature, therefore the strength of the spell would be different as well.

Quote :
Yes, there are those with more or less power...but there are still limits. Nemyra is the ONLY known Fairy that could shrink Kenshas, Marsh Vipers, and even the giant hybrids. The rest of the Fairies will vary in power, but there is a certain threshold that they just cannot cross.

Fairy magic is constant. It doesn't grow or weaken with the user. A fairy could be 4 inches tall, or she could be 100ft tall, the size limit on her powers is the same. It has to be, or they'd be able to go around shrinking other giant predators when they are giant. Dimensional magic is seperate from more conventional types, and follows its own rules.

makes you wonder how exactly Nemyra originally got her powers, if they contradict what fairies should be able to do normally. There MUST be a technique Razz

it could be centuries of practice.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:22 am

I'll tell you one thing: I don't like seeing magic in use because of how easy it is to abuse it.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:49 am

Stabs wrote:
I've inherited from my D&D days which I'm trying to get rid of. So you don't need to say it again, Junkie, if you hadn't noticed, we all knew Felarya wasn't D&D before joining. Despite the number of things Karbo liked so much he simply couldn't do without. Like putting nine circles in Hell and calling one of them Acheron [so we know it wasn't off La Divina Comedia], or the Negative Plane, or any of those details that aren't as obvious as dridders. They're excusable, though, because Chris Avellone's "Planescape: Torment" was just THAT awe-friggin'-some... and maybe because spiders are sexy.

Mrr it has been a few time you mentionned that and I'm sorry it bothers you ^^;
I really try to keep Felarya original and unique, but sometimes I'm influenced without really realizing it.

Let's see.
For the circles, indeed i can see now how it can be problematic. Especially with one named Acheron. The problem is at the times the mention of circles appeared, it wasn't that though off but it stayed afterward somehow. The word "Acheron" is more of an accident than anything else though... I had heard of a spell called the "blade of Acheron". I loved the name at the moment and just memorized it.. The fact it happened to be a plane in hell in D&d is.... well a total coincidence, believe it or not sweatdrop

The negative plane is very vaguely defined at this point and it's not really only D&D exclusive.

And dridders, yeah I regret this one the most. At this time I was searching for a name for spider/humn hybrids, and basically every search results were about dridders which made me think it was the "official" name for that kind of mythical creature, not just a name from the D&d franchise.
I'm not sure what to do about that now. If I could go back in time I would definitely come up with an original name...

Mhh can you make a list of all the things you think are too close to D&d ? maybe we can find a way to deal with some of them..


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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:29 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
Prinny, I hope I'm not offensive, but you quoted a line that said that I believe that the majority of characters with a name will be a mage of some kind, and I find this practice to be getting old. You concured, but then you said that mages focus on their field and all, which didn't have anything with the line you quoted. I have nothing against mages, but seeing so many kind of defeat the purpose of a spellcaster being special and powerful if they are common. I am of course not counting races with high magical aptitudes like fairies and elves.

None taken. Uhh, my bad, I guess. Must have misunderstood what you were talking about. sweatdrop Anyway, when I want to write about somebody who actually has a shot at survival in Felarya, it's probably going to be a mage. Personally, in my role-playing game years, I've always wondered how some dude with a pointy piece of metal and some shiny armor ever got recruited into a party fighting freaking dragons, when people with the power to warp the laws of reality to their whims are available. I mean, come on, in no reasonable conflict is a fighter ever going to be able to beat a mage without surprising the heck out of him, if you strip away all the balancing game mechanics of stuff like D&D. Warp reality to your whim > swing sword.

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Grenades vs Rockets
Actually, that reminds me of when my friend was complaining about the AOE of grenades & rockets in Halo; talked about how grenades are for doing damage to soft targets in as big an area as possible, while anti-vehicle weapons are designed to direct all their force forward, through just about anything (car, tank, naga), and often whatever was behind that anything, but not so much create a big circular zone of death. So that makes sense. Does make me wonder how an anti-tank missile would stack up against a dridder wearing a suit of full-body, enchanted plate mail though... OK, I'll stop dragging this off topic now. Razz

rcs619 wrote:
There is no other solution other than to assume that magic power is scaled up.
Yeah, I agree. As much as it doesn't quite satisfy me on an intuitive level, it's the only choice that actually works with what has been established so far. Maybe it's psychological? Like, the whole subconscious 'this is impossible!' thing doesn't really start to screw you up until you're trying to make fireballs bigger than your head, or something. A fireball the size of a building looks way less impossible to Crisis than to a human, ya know? Ehhh, I dunno, that sounded better in my head.. Neutral

Quote :
Portal limb-severing
I'm kinda against this, not so much because it doesn't make sense, but because portal manipulation is so fantastically powerful already, I don't think it needs to be further weaponized. sweatdrop

Quote :
Dridders
Personally, I'd be fine with just retconing them to a different name. It might be a little confusing for a while, but I think most people would catch on pretty quick. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:22 am

Actually Prin, you make it sound like that, like Malahite said about the Elders Scroll games, that anyone in their mother's house can easily learn how to cast magic if they decide to put their mind to it every once in a while. I personally dislike this vision of how someone can become a spellcaster. To me, learning how to channel magic requires rigorous discipline, perseverance and dedication. Not many people have this kind of patience and resolution, nor does everyone can easily understand the concept and nature behind magic one must know to properly channel it. In Felarya, I don't see it. It's as if channeling magic can be done by anyone, which correlates with what Prinny said. If becoming a mage in Felarya is so easy, why are there even fighters? But let's go with the fighters. If going by game logic, the mage is essentially the Easy Mode. I would personally love to see how a non-caster survives in the wild through quick wit and thinking, good knowledge of what he's getting into, and proper survival skills. Again, I have nothing mages, but there is such as thing as too much of a good thing, and IMO, seeing so many mages makes them veer in that category. Apologies if I sounded like I lectured there.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:17 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
Actually Prin, you make it sound like that, like Malahite said about the Elders Scroll games, that anyone in their mother's house can easily learn how to cast magic if they decide to put their mind to it every once in a while. I personally dislike this vision of how someone can become a spellcaster. To me, learning how to channel magic requires rigorous discipline, perseverance and dedication. Not many people have this kind of patience and resolution, nor does everyone can easily understand the concept and nature behind magic one must know to properly channel it. In Felarya, I don't see it. It's as if channeling magic can be done by anyone, which correlates with what Prinny said. If becoming a mage in Felarya is so easy, why are there even fighters? But let's go with the fighters. If going by game logic, the mage is essentially the Easy Mode. I would personally love to see how a non-caster survives in the wild through quick wit and thinking, good knowledge of what he's getting into, and proper survival skills. Again, I have nothing mages, but there is such as thing as too much of a good thing, and IMO, seeing so many mages makes them veer in that category. Apologies if I sounded like I lectured there.

In Felarya, it is much, much easier to learn magic. The world is saturated in magical energy, and people who were born there would have been exposed to both that energy, and mages their entire lives.

Magic is not some mystical, difficult, rare thing to master, at least not to native Felaryans. Does it take mental discipline and training? Sure. So do martial arts. It can take several years to get your black belt in a martial art (took me 5 years, but I've seen people do it in 3), but it is far from a rare or impossible thing.

It isn't like the people in Felarya are short on free time. There's no TV, no internet, and radios and theaters only really exist in Negav as far as we know. There's more than enough time for someone to develop even basic skills at magic. ...and most people, at least the natives, WOULD have some form of magic. Look at the predators. They don't have any training outside of their own families for the most part, and a decent number of them have at least basic magical skills.

Keep in mind, the world of origin has a HUGE impact on someone's predisposition to magic. People born on Felarya are extremely predisposed to it, so magic comes easier and is fairly common from them. Someone from a world where there is little to no magic (The Deluran, Miritan and Vishmital homeworlds for example), is going to have great difficulty leanring magic because they have never been exposed to it before. Could they potentially learn some? Probably with a lot of time..but most probably won't feel the need to, since they have technology.

Magic is not inherantly greater than technology, it is just another way of doing things...another way of looking at the world, and how to solve various problems.

You really should not try and use videogame logic, it rarely transfers out of its chosen game well. There would be plenty need for people who prefer melee combat. Would it be useful at all against most of the wildlife? Not really...but it would be a fine defense against the roving bands of theives and raiders that are so common throughout Felarya.

You act like just because someone is a mage, they aren't tough, and aren't survivalists. Look at the 3rd manga, where Voidfingers and Telekline, knowing they are lost and outmatched, are forced to use survival skills to try and survive out in Bulvon Wood. Are Isolon Fist officers mages? Yeah...but they are also trained soldiers too. It isnt like mages are all going to be the secluded, weak, scholarly type.

Honestly, the subject of the story determines the amount of magic present. If it is about an off-worlder, that character may not have magic, depending on the world of origin. If it is about a native Felaryan, then it is quite likely they know magic of some kind. Its just their way of life, and something they have been exposed to since birth. Its not some big, mysterious, rare thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:27 am

Cliff, I haven't read the doujins and I am intolerant of spoilers. I would like it if you respected that. My point is: if a character is named, it's a 9/10 chance it's a mage. I see this as dull since it offers so little variety.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:17 am

Should I bring out my list of stuff I KNEW you guys would say, now? Rolling Eyes

Malahite, stop acting like magic exists and runs in a particular manner. I'm not asking about phonons and candelas! We're writers, you know? WRITERS. W-R-I-T-E-R-S. Got it memorized? If we've not tried to be needlessly physical-mathematical about it it's because we don't want to. And we don't have to, because magic doesn't exist. And it would add NOTHING. You don't make illusions by brush strokes or aerograph, or else, nobody would EVER use illusions because NOBODY can realistically create all the frames of a photorealistic tridimensional image in the span of time it takes to decide what to make. Nobody. That includes HAL 9000, AM, Cosmic AC-MAN and SHODAN pooling their resources together. But it "exists". So that's magic for you. Got it memorized?

Savage wrote:
"Because flashy-flashy is a waste of good precision, energy, and time. Sure, you find a good arch-mage they can probably make a fireball the size of a house with a few moments incantation. But ask them how often they'll use a spell that big, that cumbersome, and that long to call, and see how many state they'll do it frequently. Those that do, see how many are members of magical shows or green academy show-offs and how many have some jungle between their toes."
I mean from a writing perspective. Why do you keep acting like magic was real? For all we know, flashy is easier than subtle.

Malahite wrote:
Why, if you don't mind me asking? I see no reason for a Giant in particular to have an automatic "Magic +20" bonus just because they're big. Are you saying that if a Human Archmage was to use a Growth spell, for instance, their magic would suddenly multiply in proportion to their change in volume? Or, if a Fairy shrinks down from "Giant" to "Tiny" size, their magic suddenly suffers a -200 penalty?
Because imagine a human overpowering a predator's spell. That'd be silly.
Now, you keep getting annoyed with the fairies, and you're looking at this the wrong way. Magic doesn't scale down with size- unless it does; that's the problem, it can do both. Look at it this way... if I weighed 78 tons, don't you think I'd learn how to tap into that if it were possible and I had half a working brain? Or would I just stay in bed depressed over being so fat?
Magic CAN tap into size, it doesn't need to. I guess fairies don't tap into their size, they tap into their wings. Vivian probably taps into her size, and that of the wonder twins. Fairy wings are stronger than being 100 foot tall, to the point that a fairy at 100 foot tall doesn't see any noticeable changes in her power. For someone without fairy wings, being 100 foot tall will do. We don't have either- so we suck. Now, if I were tapping into my size, I'd have 10000 times less power than Vivian from that source. So instead I use magic that scales up with the number of gems I'm wearing... we can call it "Magical Girl Power". Would that work for you? And since you like physics so much, let's put it this way...
M(S,m,L,W)=S*Aval+(1 thaum)*m^(L)+W*1000000 thaums

W can be either 0 or 1 depending on whether you've got fairy wings or not.
S equals your surface area.
Aval is an environmental proportionality constant, worth 1 thaum/square metre in Felarya and less in some other places.
m equals your magical affinity, as an integer from 1 to 10, adimensional.
L equals your level of skill with said affinity. It also goes from 1 to 10.
X is a constant to keep values in thaums, (thaums/square metre).

Other than those parts I really wanted to take the mickey out of, your post was on-topic and I've gotta say it was one of the most helpful.

======

PrinnyDood wrote:
I agree, to some degree, but on the other hand, Felarya seems to run on a toned-down version of Godzilla physics. After all, I remember in the manga Anna getting hit in the back with what appeared to be a grenade, and being annoyed but basically fine. While Belletia had a grenade go off in her mouth/throat, and was similarly in pain but mostly uninjured. Then again, I'm no weapon expert, so maybe I'm misunderstanding what 'military-grade' means. In any case, this is probably a topic for another time, and another thread.
I agree.

Cliff wrote:
Those were just standard anti-personel fragmentation grenades.

The explosive charge in those really is not that great. Nearly all of their killing power comes from the shrapnel and pressure waves that they put off. They are designed to kill soft, or very lightly armored targets. They really don't have any kind of penetrating power, at least, not enough to be anywhere near lethal to a full-grown pred.
As I told you before that can't be. If they were aware of what they were doing they couldn't POSSIBLY have brought useless grenades. If they weren't lethal, why'd they brought them? So as to risk killing themselves by accident in case of sucking too bad?

======

I don't know if EVERYONE should be a wizard, Cliff. And I beg to differ, Sean- I don't mind wizards as long as they're not just wizards. And yes, if magic's just going to replace every skill, things are going to get a mite boring. Then again, magic shouldn't be ignored.

Pendragon wrote:
I'll tell you one thing: I don't like seeing magic in use because of how easy it is to abuse it.
I know, Pendragon. I'm trying not to make it that way.

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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:49 am

I hope no one minds if I chime in by ideas. All my ideas have been worked out with a close friend of mine, and we came to this end product. We believe that most people have a magic aptitude. This aptitude determines how easily someond can learn magic. If someone's aptitude is a 0 in a 0 to 100 scale, not only do they lack magic, magic lacks them. That means that magic is much weaker against them. Such people are just as rare as someone with a 100, who would be a mage capable of blowing up Asia without even breaking a sweat. This means that, with enough effort, anyone COULD learn magic, it's just most don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:20 am

Renaming Dridders? Really? Sigh. If we must. I sort of liked the name. Dridder. Dridder. Dridder. It's better than "Spidertaur".


Now, to play Devil's Advocate - why wouldn't lots of people use magic to a degree? Adventurers, I mean, and the competent ones. Sorry if its too "common" for people, but if I was in the jungle of predatory death, I would want as much advantages as I could have. Magic is also great as an advantage because unlike the advantage of a rocket launcher, you don't need to lug it around. Of course, just on its own, being only a potent mage means you're likely to run into the predators that are attracted to your increased signature. Really, in Felarya, the best equipment is either a great skill in magic or an impressive array of weaponry and the know-how to use it. Path of the Magiocrat or Path of the Vishmital. Sorry, but being a "fighter" with a sword is just dumb.

On the flip side, I do think that magic should not be something that comes "naturally". It's like the comparison used for martial arts. It's going to take a while to get mastery of any style. I think a big limiting factor should be that different "types" of magic, which we have not yet determined what they should be, should be very different to use. I know they come up again and again, but I think the poster-boys for "appropriately powerful yet still interesting use of magic" are Telekline and Voidfingers. I think magic is interesting if it is NOT a "get out of every dangerous situation free" card that allows a character to manifest random powers. It should have limitations even as the style differs character to character.

I think that different "schools" of magic should require such different mindsets that it would take separate long training to master multiple of them, especially if you are a human and not a magic inclined elf. A good mage's versatility would come from either intense study or imagination. Of course, if a mage was focusing only on study, he would lose time that could have been spent on other skills, like survival skills...

---

And for predator size to magic ability... I dunno, for purely cinematic purposes, it would be rather underwhelming if a giant naga could only shoot a fireball the size that a human could.

Actually - think about it this way. In Felarya the water is permeated with magic. A creature that has grown for decades drinking the water, eating stuff that has drunk the water and being a good proportion made out of that water... plus being bigger than a human and thus being made of more water proportionally...

Of course, less organized predators like nagas probably get less magical teacher. So they would likely (unless a practiced sorcerer like Vivian) be unable to cast effective spells outside of their affinity and would not have wide range or control.


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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:29 am

Stabs, I said that I don't mind mages, but I speak as a reader and I have noticed that characters with names are almost always mages, and speaking as a reader, it is getting old and hurt any interest I can have for the character because it's just more of the same. Everyone has a good point: Cliff, Felarya is very rich in magic, so Felaryan-born people would be more likely to develop magic aptitude. JT, magic is indeed extremely practical in such a setting. Myself, this still doesn't excuse that there is little variety among the characters. Felarya also houses many, MANY people coming from different worlds, many of which are neither mages, nor from modern or futuristic settings. However, said types of characters are barely used, while mage characters are used way too often. As a reader, mages are becoming trite and uninteresting, and other aspects should be touched upon to keep them fresh. Again, I'm sorry for being aggressive, but seeing more of the same being ignored just grind my gears.

Moving on, about the Dridders, since they're not the EXACT spelling, I believe that's enough to slip past Wizards of the Coast radar, but I still wouldn't take chance and tell them first.

I would also like to add something: could you please keep the doujin references to a minimum? Not all of us has good income. Not all of us has a pay pal account. Not all of us has read them. I would appreciate if you respected that simple fact and not spoil anything for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:03 pm

Well, Sean, you got a point there- then again, wizards are very easy to write, too. You still have a point- we need to stop defaulting to wizard.

As for you, Troll... we can do better than just being a "fighter" with a sword. It's just much, much harder than explaining why a wizard survives. Everyone knows at least some of the things magic should be able to do, we all have grown up on Disney princesses and stuff. But surviving on swords is harder... your wits start playing a bigger role. And you know what happens when you make a character with 18 intelligence? Your GM might take it away if he thinks you can't roleplay it. Same with writing- if you can't really personify a very clever man, you're pretty much screwed where it comes to writing. Not to diss nobody, but not everyone can do that; you're one of the few who can, Troll. I've read Fenja's tales, and I'm impressed.

Now let me rephrase my initial question- what kind of mages or magical items would be reasonably easy to find in Negav?

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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:09 pm

For the most common type would most likely be the bookworm type, since I think most are aware of the dangers and don't want to take such risks.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:02 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
For the most common type would most likely be the bookworm type, since I think most are aware of the dangers and don't want to take such risks.

I really don't think bookworm mages would be all that common. The weak, scholarly mage is more of a videogame and fantasy novel trope than anything, and that is more for balance than anything. That's like saying nearly all swordsmen are stupid brutes who just like stabbing things.

I think you would see a pretty big variety of mages, just like in other groups, really. I could see some, more naive, mages coming out of the magic academies in upper-district Negav. They would have lived in relative comfort and would not have had to deal with the dangers of the jungle yet. You would also have all the mages who live or spend time down in the middle and low districts of Negav. Rougher, more cunning people who have had to learn through experience instead of going to some fancy magic school. ...You also have magic users like the battlemages of the Isolon Fist. Powerful mages who have been trained as soldiers. They regularly go out to handle the Magiocrats' affairs, and as the manga showed, several of them working in tandem can actually go up against a full-grown predator if the need arises.

I just don't think we should consign all of Felarya's mages to the weak, super-smart, bookworm, long robe wearing stereotype that a lot of mages in various videogames and fantasy settings tend to get lumped into.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:12 pm

Well magic demands some kind of degree of good intelligence to even know about the nature of magic and all that jazz. Ironically, this is also the case with a soldier, since you need good and quick thinking, know the best application of which tactic and in the proper scenario, and all that jazz. I really don't understand the reasoning behind the Big Dumb Fighter stereotype, other than it's so big and dumb that it can shrug off attacks and break anything with a well placed strike. But I digress.

About mage robes, the usual reasoning is that heavy armor tend to get in the way of movements necessary to cast spells, but I don't know why they need to wear robes. My guess is that they follow behind Gandalf.

About being weak, it makes a bit more sense as learning how to channel magic would probably require more studying so the mage wouldn't be as fit as a warrior who exercises almost daily one way or another. However, they still wouldn't be as weak as how video games exagerrate that trend.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:09 pm

rcs619 wrote:
You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. All you need to think about is scale. When a Fairy scales up or down, or he/she scales something down, all their stats...their strength, speed, magic, etc, scale down accordingly. A mightly barbarian may be able to pick up a horse, but if he gets scaled down by a fairy to 3 inches tall, well, he wouldn't even be able to push back one of her fingers if she pinned him down with it.
Actually, I think the complication's coming into the picture because we're talking about similar effects (Shrinking spells, and Fairy Size-Changing magic), and using terms interchangeable enough that text being applied to one instance is being instead applied to the other (for instance, the quoted passage you responded to was in response to a Fairy changing its own size, not someone else).

Furthermore, the application of physical strength scaling = magical strength scaling seems to be consistent. To make a further example of what I mean: Say there's an arch-mage. He has been studying magic for some 200+ years on Felarya, has trained in several schools and seen the coming and going of several named Predators (named insofar as in they'd be "plot important", so to speak) and politicians.

Suddenly, he is shrunk down to 6" tall. He can no longer cast a basic magic missile (in this case, a roughly baseball sized orb of magical energy that can be thrown forward), without requiring intense concentration. Why? Why can he suddenly not use the magic-soaked nature of Felarya to cast such a spell readily? Now, at the same time, say he's hit by a growth spell - he's a whopping 35' tall! Is he now, due to his volume increase, capable of changing the magic missile to a solid 1'6" diameter? To put it into another perspective, say they made a barrier that could only take so much damage before breaking. The human can barely manage a 7.62mm NATO round with their projectile. If that human were grown to a Giant Predator's size (a 70' tall Giantess, no less, let alone one with even more volume such as a 70' tall naga or mermaid), that same barrier would now immediately be capable of shrugging up to an M1 Abrams main gun before breaking, from just the size increase. The Arch-Mage's skill in the spell did not increase, their ability to manipulate the magic of Felarya did not increase, the conditions of their casting (weather, local magical effects, health, stamina, and so on) did not change, only their size (though technically a condition of casting), and now they can use said barrier to shrug off several small ammo crates worth of 7.62mm NATO rounds.

I'm not speaking a "scale change" size change for the above either, I mean an honest to goodness, straight up, "you're grown / shrunk in size" growth / shrink spell. This would be the effect. To increase size more fully up to

rcs619 wrote:
Nothing actually grows or shrinks with fairy magic. All that changes is the scale.
This interpretation seems to take magic casters as being a "filter", so to speak. The magic must flow through the spell caster to be acted upon. Such an interpretation would... explain, why we're having this debate.

My interpretation of magic is not that it must flow through the caster. Indeed, the contact with the caster is practically a minimum. In my interpretation, magic is more tugged at by the caster, almost like a puppet on strings or a piano's keys and pedals and the like, so as to get a proper result. Your little cantrip a brief melody, your fireball a score, the firestorm spell a dynamic symphony performance.

In such an interpretation, size would be less important than your ability to recognize the patterns, tug at them, and shape them / release them in a manner of your choosing. Perhaps a larger being might be able to hold more force without magical aid, counteracting force having more mass to move / repel (the Giants essentially "weighted", the difference between firing a SAW from the hip versus using a bipod / whatever, and so on), but alternate manipulations of the magic could work around such (for instance, while the Giant Predator could do such through brute force, the Prey could counteract with potentially release some of the pent-up energy elsewhere, or redirecting the energy to amplify the spell's symphony by adding a new "string" from it).


If working off the "filter" approach, that magic soaks into someone and such soaking is always proportional ([x]-magic for [y] volume), then your argument makes much more sense. In that case, there's a simple limit to how much power can be put into a funnel before it either breaks (and a magic break is rarely a good sign, often very chaotic. And fatal to the caster), or simply can't squeeze past (meaning no matter as much as they wish to put out, say, 8m^3 of water a turn, their magic "limit" means they can only squeeze out under half that). In such a case, you'd "increase" your magic potential not by increase how well you tug at magic (though knowing more about magic would let you do more with the magic you can access), but instead cheating how much magic your body is supposed to have as a limit.


rcs619 wrote:
To a degree, probably. There's going to be limitations though. Like, there's no way a Neera could ever cast an illusion onto a giant predator. The pred is just too massive, and their own magical field would be far too strong to be overcome by the magic of a Neera.
When you say this, what exactly do you mean (see above confusion on how magic works as an example)?

When I think "Illusion", I think you make a particular faux-object that anyone within typical observation range or the like would notice. You make an illusionary human, the nearby Neera, Neko, Spine Beetle, large Slug Girl (say, 30' tall?) and Fairy (currently 80' tall) would all see it, even with none of them being a target.

In your case, you're applying the "illusion" more to what I'd see as a charm, or enchantment on someone, wherein they're "charmed" to see an "illusionary" / false being. There is still no human there, as in the above example, but the illusion now has a target, and those not targeted would see nothing. Say, for instance, it was somehow cast successfully on the Slug Girl. She would see it, but neither the Spine Beetle (being unable to have the spell cast on it anyways), the Neera (say they were not targeted), the Neko, or the Fairy (see the Neera excuse for both of these) would see the human there. The Slug Girl might grab at it, but the other things would only see her grabbing at thin air and trying to stuff said air into her mouth / talk to it about why no-one else can see or hear it.


rcs619 wrote:
Yes, there are those with more or less power...but there are still limits. Nemyra is the ONLY known Fairy that could shrink Kenshas, Marsh Vipers, and even the giant hybrids. The rest of the Fairies will vary in power, but there is a certain threshold that they just cannot cross.
Known being one of the key words there, and in her case the questionable content is wherein the cutoff is for the non-standard sizes. Giant Hybrids, seemingly, would be right out most of the time. But a Kensha "pup", about 16' tall? They're above the standard cut-off on averages, being about 3' above the size limit. However, they're just that: About 3' above the size limit, practically (if not certainly) under 25% a size increase. While proportionally, again, that's a bit more than a 25% size change (in terms of volume), the jump is nowhere near as severe as that from a bloodclaw to Vivian (which would be several orders of magnitude).


rcs619 wrote:
The dimensional magic that fairies use is extremely powerful. They need to use their wings as magical focusing arrays to even use it.
This would support a "magic filter" style of magic used, though in such a case their magic would change with scale changes (or we're working off the "cheating" principle, wherein a shrunken fairy has a several hundred times more efficient wing pair than normal, even though it would practically be much smaller).

rcs619 wrote:
It isn't that the fairy is necissarily a much stronger mage, its that she is using a much stronger form of magic. Since that magic is so much stronger than the norm, it would take a considerably powerful mage to be able to resist it.
So this would argue, then, that size does not matter in some magics' cases, but type used. A sort of "rock paper scissors" to magic, wherein one style of magic can trump over another style / resistance, whereas another would be trumped. Within reasonable limits, of course (A 1" rock not decimating a city-sized piece of paper).

rcs619 wrote:
As far as conventional magic goes, Fairies would likely be on par with the average, well-trained mage from Negav...with variances in power and skill on both sides, of course. Their big trump card is the dimensional magic though, it is just very, very powerful.
Perhaps such might have a role in "forbidden spells", that people are generally told not to practice / bother with? The issue is not that the student is playing with fire, it's that they're playing with fire that absolutely refuses to be dispelled, and also completely ignores any attempt at a barrier / firebreaker. Would a description like that be applicable? Lores / types of magic which are naturally on such a different scale from other lores / types that messing with them without proper experience / knowledge is risky at best, cataclysmic at worst?

Stabs wrote:
Should I bring out my list of stuff I KNEW you guys would say, now? Rolling Eyes
Might be appreciated, I do like some good lists.

Stabs wrote:
Malahite, stop acting like magic exists and runs in a particular manner.
Isn't that the purpose of this debate? To assume that the magic exists, runs in a particular manner, and as such what one might expect in such a situation on the average mage?

Or is this a wish-list instead of a proper forum of debate / theory, wherein we just put out spells (regardless of how much they fit / "practical" reasons, seeing as "practical" is relative to a set of rules / accessibility that can be compared to) that we'd want to see on average persons? As if such is the case, I'd argue a few healing spells ranging from Cure 1 - Regen, a few anti-status effect, typical elemental spread so as to cover for most situations (which FF / D&D player didn't optimize their mages to be able to exploit any situation?), a few buffs / debuffs such as some slow spells and some haste spells, perhaps a few things such as Slowfall / Featherfall...

If one's supposed to argue what they expect people to have, they need to have some sort of rule-system in effect to understand what's plausible, what would be worthwhile, what wouldn't be, and so on. I mean, if I were told "Pick out equipment for people exploring this dark cave in a fantasy world", I wouldn't omit torches because "We don't know how the rules of light work in that world, bodies might provide enough glow to light the cave or torches actually absorb light". I'd work off the principle "Torches = light, cave = dark, torches = good". At the same time, working off what I can expect / "know" light, sound, and other such things to do, I can place spells down that I would expect someone to use and how I would expect them to do so. Without that, I'm - again - forced into nothing more than a spontaneous wish list.

Stabs wrote:
I'm not asking about phonons and candelas! We're writers, you know? WRITERS. W-R-I-T-E-R-S. Got it memorized?
Writer = don't need to apply a reason to the madness? My reasoning for things such as illusions working that way were simple: You make person silhouette illusion, person see silhouette, person believe silhouette real, person chase illusion. Science is involved in such insofar as the illusion requires you to magically construct a false silhouette, but it's not like I'm trying to make rocket surgery: You tweak and twist the light that's repelled from a certain point, you got yourself an illusion. Imagine it almost as a heat haze, but applied on a different scale. Also see my earlier point with Cliff about how illusions might vary (see: My interpretation of an illusion versus my interpretation of an "enchantment / charm", avoiding the use of "cliff's version of illusion" in case I got his interpretation of how one works wrong).

Stabs wrote:
If we've not tried to be needlessly physical-mathematical about it it's because we don't want to. And we don't have to, because magic doesn't exist.
This type of thought leads to stories wherein someone's considered a magical genius, because they realized that light + targeting light on eye = blinded predator. These people, in the fictional realm, apply the magic (which is very real to them) to survive, and are going to be looking for any sort of edge that they can. Without a set of rules, the type of "edges" you can expect are very minimal. In most rules, creating "only" sound is a much simpler task than creating "only" fire, for an example, or more accurately only light > only fire.

Stabs wrote:
And it would add NOTHING. You don't make illusions by brush strokes or aerograph, or else, nobody would EVER use illusions because NOBODY can realistically create all the frames of a photorealistic tridimensional image in the span of time it takes to decide what to make.
Even working off basic patterns? Making a general shape? It's not like you're programming each and every photon being repelled non-stop. I mean, heck, consider putting a red lens up to a flashlight: look at what changes were made to the end of the beam. That didn't require the universe grinding down to a halt because the light was artificially changed at the end, does it?

Stabs wrote:
Nobody. That includes HAL 9000, AM, Cosmic AC-MAN and SHODAN pooling their resources together. But it "exists". So that's magic for you. Got it memorized?
I dunno, saying something that can do over 1000 trillion operations a second (to put that into perspective, the number is: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000) can't ever make a human-like image in a reasonable timeframe is a bit odd. Especially considering we've artificially made holograms / optical illusions (if crude ones) already, without using said computers.

Stabs wrote:
I mean from a writing perspective. Why do you keep acting like magic was real? For all we know, flashy is easier than subtle.
To my understanding, such has not been directly contradicted by Karbo saying "You're wrong", meaning that as far as canon goes I'm still in the clear (even if such will never be published). I do not feel right putting a "Karbo didn't say I'm doing something wrong, so I'm not doing something wrong" argument out for Karbo, but by the same token I do not feel right being told "You're wrong" simply because I don't have Karbo endorsement and don't have the same conclusion as you. Just as readily as you say "how do we know flashy is harder than subtle?", I could respond "how do we know flashy is easier than subtle?", and we're stuck in a loop as neither of us (until Karbo stepped in) would be able to provide a clear-cut conclusion for Felarya. I may be at a bit of a disadvantage in that I'm pre-supposing based off other magical realms, but that's just it: I'm borrowing from other magical realms.

Stabs wrote:
Because imagine a human overpowering a predator's spell. That'd be silly.
Begging the question, partially. "A Predator is more powerful a spellcaster than a human by default." "Why?" "Because a Predator is more powerful a spellcaster, obviously."

Furthermore, I can think quite readily of a few humans that - if put on Felarya - their magic would overpower a Predator's spell so quickly you'd think you got whiplash. The argument that "Size = Might" is a bit one-sided, seeing as if such were the case the logical conclusion for everything would be to make mecha-magic devices that're specifically designed to one-up a Giant Predator in design, wherein the Giant Predator could never, ever win a magical fight again (because of the same "Size = Might" logic) unless they were in similarly stretched circumstances.

To borrow from another realm again, Rincewind v Coin. Due to the magical power difference, the answer would have been simple (Coin smashes Rincewind, lol gg). Though to be fair, that realm IS a bit risky to work from, since Narrative is a literal rule of it.
Stabs wrote:
Look at it this way... if I weighed 78 tons, don't you think I'd learn how to tap into that if it were possible and I had half a working brain? Or would I just stay in bed depressed over being so fat?
To sum up what I was going to say here (since the initial post was much harsher): If you scaled straight up, Vivian should be capable of stuff like making nuclear explosions, unless you assume that proportionally she's a worst magic caster than a human of the same rank. You cannot apply volume / size changes as linearly to magic as you can physics (and even then, that's iffy as there's the examples of "Spider movement speed" which would have Dridders running around at potentially hypersonic speeds).


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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:36 pm

Stabs wrote:
Well, Sean, you got a point there- then again, wizards are very easy to write, too. You still have a point- we need to stop defaulting to wizard.

As for you, Troll... we can do better than just being a "fighter" with a sword. It's just much, much harder than explaining why a wizard survives. Everyone knows at least some of the things magic should be able to do, we all have grown up on Disney princesses and stuff. But surviving on swords is harder... your wits start playing a bigger role. And you know what happens when you make a character with 18 intelligence? Your GM might take it away if he thinks you can't roleplay it. Same with writing- if you can't really personify a very clever man, you're pretty much screwed where it comes to writing. Not to diss nobody, but not everyone can do that; you're one of the few who can, Troll. I've read Fenja's tales, and I'm impressed.

Now let me rephrase my initial question- what kind of mages or magical items would be reasonably easy to find in Negav?

Mhm, I was saying that someone who goes out with just a sword to be a "fighter" in Felarya is not going out properly prepared. What are you going to fight with it? Swords are best as a secondary weapon against smaller stuff and, most useful, as a tool for cutting through thick jungle. Of course, there may be a clever man with a sword surviving out in the jungle, but I doubt he lists himself as "fighter". Maybe a "runner." Razz

And thanks for the compliment, though I'm not sure who the clever man is in this case. sweatdrop

Anyways, magic items. Robes are out, I think. I'm surprised that Telekline and Voidfingers get around with them, not tripping over themselves. But armour is out too as its equally difficult to cast spell in. Most competent mages would actually probably just wear light clothing, easy to move in. Perhaps with enchantments woven in.

I'd say in Felarya you'd see more wands than staves. I think the point of the hunks of wood and metal is to act as a focus - it allows the mage to cast spells easier. A wand you can at least carry with you. Though it might not even need to be a wand - we could have magic swords, daggers or spatulas used as focusing devices. So, another home for the humble sword.

Magic tomes? You better have that spell memorized before you come out. Tomes are for booklearning mages trying something complex.

Relics, artifacts, gems, etc. - This would depend on the twin variables of how awesome is the effect and how big and heavy the thing is. A mage might have quite a few.

Potions - Many might have useful properties. Be selective though. I guess if you don't care about littering or buy new ones you can always toss bottles to lighten your load, though you could leave a trail.

So, in actuality, a Felaryan Adventurin' Mage would likely look nothing like the be-robed bookworms of lore. They would dress in outdoors clothes that are simple, but be indentifiable by being festooned with various small trinkets, charms and ornaments and perhaps having strange patterns on their clothing. Perhaps a little less well kept than the disciplined soldier types, being more focused on things in the ether.

Wait... I just described a hippy there, didn't I? Yeah... I did. Cannot unsee.

Of course, we'd probably see some robed bookworm mages in Negav itself. Not the adventuring kind - the sort that do magical maintenance work on the city, research new spells and probably the ones who sell stuff to the aforementioned group.


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PostSubject: Re: Magic in use   Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:50 pm

Actually, armor isn't that bad when it comes to mobility. You can do backflips and swim in decent plate, after all.

The catch is affording such things, since plate has to practically be custom forged for each wearer, as well as fitted (you can't just go "Here's what I need, get to it, be back in three months for the suit"). There's lighter armors just as mobile (or moreso) than plate, but again cost starts becoming an issue. While, for a mage, the cost probably isn't much a concern, the other uses they could put that money toward or possible enchanted gear could make up for such.

Oh, yeah, and because practically everything in Felarya seems to be tailored so that armor doesn't matter. They can either chomp through like it isn't there, fire spines like crude railguns, put crazily dangerous poisons that area-effect / macross missile-spam and only require a single scratch to kill you, can simply dash you against a rock, can simply lay on you, or so on. Unless you're using enchanted armor or mechanized armour, you're mostly just going for comfort value or protecting oneself versus bandits. Seems a bit odd, really, considering so few natural creatures appear to need such mechanisms to defend against / attack. Maybe some animal species that was extremely common has been wiped out recently, or migrated off Felarya?
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