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Krisexy26
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PostSubject: Literature   Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:16 am

No, I'm not in the wrong forum. I think this shouldnt be posted in stories discussion because im not talking about a precise story, im letting you guys know what is the real literature when talking about the stories being made for felarya and when you guys sometimes...comment them, which is absolutely eh...making me not happy (to not say bad words). so, being lazy and tired, ill copy my recent journal here because i know its not everyone who is watching my dA. im open to argue if you know what you're talking about Razz



Okay, since saw many people doing the wrong things about stories, I will help you guys out.

First of, what is literature? None knows. Theres never been a right definition of what "Literature" clearly means. We can say, in a lil resumé, that it contain every books and such. But that's not where I want to go.

My point is: "what is literature supposed to be"? Like...what forms it shall take?

Here's some history. The word "author" takes racine in the word "authority". Why that? Because, back in the Middle-Age and way before that, the one that was able to write back then had the power, had "authority". Today, we all know it changed, but still. Also guys, when you have the authority, what do you do? Yeah, you do pretty much whatever you want. That's where I want to lead ya.

An author can do whatever he wants in his stories. Absolutely anything (though here the author's right is something else). I mean, if you want to write about a pen meeting an erase, they fuck and have a baby sharpener, you can! It's written nowhere, NOWHERE you can't do it. Also, for the forms now. Like I said, you can do whatever you want. You can start by the end and finish by the beginning if you want. It's written NOWHERE that you can't do that. Literature is free, the author is free, the result is free.

So, when you say that a story "doesnt respect the rules", you are totally wrong. There's no rules about writing a book. None. Zero. Nada. Nothing. For example, people pursued Baudelaire for his work. Today, his poems are considered must-read. Another day, maybe, I'll let ya know what I think about originality.

So, the message in this journal is: don't ever say a story sucks or isnt respecting the rules. None sucks and no rules are supposed to be followed.

Thank you
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PostSubject: Re: Literature   Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:50 am

I guess that when someone says that the person is breaking the rules, they may mean the rules of the setting. This can be excused, since being consistent is key to keep the foundation of the story solid (as a corollary, being too consistent can make the story too predictable, so it's okay to have something break the rules every once in a while to keep things interesting.) However, if you mean that someone is breaking the rules of literature, then yes, it's people being far too sheltered. We all have our own views of how a story is told which we are most comfortable with. I admit that as far as how I think a story is told, I am pretty stiff, and am trying to correct that as to not berate people for their own preferences.
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PostSubject: Re: Literature   Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:29 pm

Krisexy26 wrote:
No, I'm not in the wrong forum. I think this shouldnt be posted in stories discussion because im not talking about a precise story, im letting you guys know what is the real literature when talking about the stories being made for felarya and when you guys sometimes...comment them, which is absolutely eh...making me not happy (to not say bad words). so, being lazy and tired, ill copy my recent journal here because i know its not everyone who is watching my dA. im open to argue if you know what you're talking about Razz



Okay, since saw many people doing the wrong things about stories, I will help you guys out.

First of, what is literature? None knows. Theres never been a right definition of what "Literature" clearly means. We can say, in a lil resumé, that it contain every books and such. But that's not where I want to go.

My point is: "what is literature supposed to be"? Like...what forms it shall take?

Here's some history. The word "author" takes racine in the word "authority". Why that? Because, back in the Middle-Age and way before that, the one that was able to write back then had the power, had "authority". Today, we all know it changed, but still. Also guys, when you have the authority, what do you do? Yeah, you do pretty much whatever you want. That's where I want to lead ya.

An author can do whatever he wants in his stories. Absolutely anything (though here the author's right is something else). I mean, if you want to write about a pen meeting an erase, they fuck and have a baby sharpener, you can! It's written nowhere, NOWHERE you can't do it. Also, for the forms now. Like I said, you can do whatever you want. You can start by the end and finish by the beginning if you want. It's written NOWHERE that you can't do that. Literature is free, the author is free, the result is free.

So, when you say that a story "doesnt respect the rules", you are totally wrong. There's no rules about writing a book. None. Zero. Nada. Nothing. For example, people pursued Baudelaire for his work. Today, his poems are considered must-read. Another day, maybe, I'll let ya know what I think about originality.

So, the message in this journal is: don't ever say a story sucks or isnt respecting the rules. None sucks and no rules are supposed to be followed.

Thank you

It is important to keep in mind that there is a difference between critique (which can sometimes be very blunt, and even almost harsh, depending on the individual) and someone saying that a story "sucks". That is often a very fine line on the internet, with everyone worried about "trolls" and "flamers" (It annoys me to no end to see those two terms grossly misused like they often are these days) and ED and such. That is really the key to making it in a community like this, being able to take the critique of others. I mean, I've seen times on DA when someone goes and gives an honest, if a bit blunt, analysis of someone's story...only to have the author hide their comment and block them. This has happened within the Felarya community over on DA. That isn't how people improve, or gain many friends outside their own circles.

While authors do have the right to do pretty much whatever they want within their stories, that is a bit constrained by the fact that they are setting their stories within a setting that does have rules, lore, and a rich history. Those kinds of issues need to at least be pointed out, so that they aren't painting a bad and/or inaccurate depiction of the setting.

When I go to critique someone's Felarya stories (or even Legacy stories, since that is another setting I help with), I tend to have two main areas I look at.

1: Writing mechanics: This is actually a pretty broad category. Grammar, spelling, word tense, and the like all go in here. This is probably the easiest to point out in a critique. Now, having someone go down a list of errors can take a little bit to get used to, but it has to be done. Sometimes it takes someone going through your work and pointing out all the errors you missed, so that you can improve as a writer. I know I personally want to try and do the best job possible, even if writing is just a hobby for me, so I hope that when I put up a story, the people reading it will help point out things I might have missed, be it grammar/tense errors, or an error in the structure of my story itself.

2: Setting accuracy: This is the part that can get a bit difficult, since we all have varying views of the setting. I tend to just stick to the big issues when I look for this kind of stuff. Really, as long as the writer has glanced over a few wiki pages, they will probably be fine enough for me to not have to bring up much. Other stuff I look for is conflicts with Felarya history and lore, and such. More people visiting the forum will make those kinds of issues less common as well, since this is where most of the changes to that kind of stuff are proposed in the first place.

But yeah, its a very fine line. I just think it is important for people to realize the difference between a blunt critique...and trolling or flaming. It seems like any time someone gets passionate, or a little bit aggressive, people start bringing up concerns about flaming or being a troll. Just remember, if someone gives an in-depth critique, points out errors and/or offers potential fixes...they probably aren't flaming. Just because someone doesn't love your story and give you 5/5 stars on DA's critique feature doesn't mean they are a troll, or are saying "This story sucks."

The people that actually go around saying "This story sucks" and are legitimately flaming though, that needs to stop. We're more mature than that. Haven't seen that much of it around the community lately though. We have really been in a very long (thankfully so) lull in any major drama within the community.
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Krisexy26
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PostSubject: Re: Literature   Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Quote :
It is important to keep in mind that there is a difference between critique (which can sometimes be very blunt, and even almost harsh, depending on the individual) and someone saying that a story "sucks". That is often a very fine line on the internet, with everyone worried about "trolls" and "flamers" (It annoys me to no end to see those two terms grossly misused like they often are these days) and ED and such. That is really the key to making it in a community like this, being able to take the critique of others. I mean, I've seen times on DA when someone goes and gives an honest, if a bit blunt, analysis of someone's story...only to have the author hide their comment and block them. This has happened within the Felarya community over on DA. That isn't how people improve, or gain many friends outside their own circles.

pff. It's so easy to be mean and so hard to be nice. hard, but not impossible. ive had many..comments on my work. most of them were nice critiques gently pointing out where i failed and where i didnt. and how am i reacting? the same say they commented. you comment nice i reply nice. but for me, what goes on one side also goes to the other. say bad comments about my work, ill say bad comments about yours. never, never NEVER never i said a story was meant to go to garbage (and if i did so, i was drunk). now that goes for me, but im pointing out that "being aggressive" in a comment isnt what it requires. If a teacher scream at you that you are just a moron, itll not help, just make you feel bad. but when someone takes the time to show you where are you mistakes, god we can go so far <3.

Quote :
While authors do have the right to do pretty much whatever they want within their stories, that is a bit constrained by the fact that they are setting their stories within a setting that does have rules, lore, and a rich history. Those kinds of issues need to at least be pointed out, so that they aren't painting a bad and/or inaccurate depiction of the setting.

ive read many books that absolutely made no-sense at all, yet they were the best books ive ever read. because within all this non-sense, there is sense. and thats wonderful!

myeah i wont quote but theres many shit that happened and are happening, its just not happening in front of everyones eyes. just like the lil problem ive been through, if thats not a problem, idk what it is (and im not done with it yet)

i think my post just came along with anime junkie's eh...dream. he want people to respect each other and all, i want people to respect each other's art. its essential.
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PostSubject: Re: Literature   Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:46 pm

I'll admit that I'm one of those people that tends to prefer a more structured view of literature. Now, nonsensical stuff is fine in its place, but if we're talking about what belongs in the Felarya community, that is another story entirely. I have been in disputes because I believe that physical laws should never be ignored (if you can help it) if you're going for a "realistic" story (note the difference between realistic and real), but I'm all for creative workarounds and such.

Now, that's not to say I'm a dick about it. I accept that my view isn't universally-held; though I'll offer my take and opinion, I don't treat it like divine word (or I at least try not to).

What I take true objection to is the "tit-for-tat" argument you have going there. Such an attitude isn't constructive in the slightest. If someone is mean to you, being mean in return will only cause a bigger argument. You can stand up for yourself, but if you're the one to maintain a cool head, other people will respect that and support you (I remember telling you this before, Kris).

And I'm sorry, some stories are garbage. This is almost always because the writer put zero effort into it, or just did things wrong. Before you get on me about saying such a thing, you should know that the first example I would give is the two iterations of my half-assed attempt at a series. Some writing is better than others, at least in a certain light. If you have no flow, poor spelling and grammar, and bland characters and plot... well, the story may be the author's domain, but don't expect it to be accepted by others.
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PostSubject: Re: Literature   Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:21 am

oh yeah of course, you cant do what you want in felarya (like making a guardian destroy negav..?) but yeah, wehn you respect the euh...basis of felarya, you can do what you want (following my thinking)

everyone has its own view on literature Razz the understanding of a story does not belong to your neighbour, it belongs to you, and only you!

ah yeah i know im ehm...i need to work my attitude a bit =P if you want, you and me may talk about it a day, its passionate ^^ (though it will only be done on a live chat, your call =P). I am what you english dudes call ehm...a hot-head? something like that? im impulsive (and yeah, many people told me that before but you cant change what you are just like that!)

i agree some stories are just real garbage. though sometimes theres factor to consider. for myself, ive never been good in my english classes so i make a lot of typos (its life), though it doesnt mean the heart of the story is bad, far from that. but yeah ive seen some stories that were just eh...awful <.<
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PostSubject: Re: Literature   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:54 am

Krisexy26 wrote:
everyone has its own view on literature Razz the understanding of a story does not belong to your neighbour, it belongs to you, and only you!
I agree that it's ultimately an author who has reign over a story, but you also have to factor in that said author is probably writing the story for the benefit of others, so some considerations must be made there.

Krisexy26 wrote:
ah yeah i know im ehm...i need to work my attitude a bit =P if you want, you and me may talk about it a day, its passionate ^^ (though it will only be done on a live chat, your call =P). I am what you english dudes call ehm...a hot-head? something like that? im impulsive (and yeah, many people told me that before but you cant change what you are just like that!)
We all have personality problems of our own, too. I'm sometimes a bit of a hot-head myself, although throughout the years I've worked on curbing that as best I can. The real problem is my passive-aggressive nature and my tendency to bottle up stress. Neither of those are healthy. If you feel it's necessary, I could probably talk it out with ya sometime, preferably when I don't have to rush to work in an hour (like I do now). MSN is zack_the_lamb@yahoo.com (those are underscores, not spaces, and I realize I just gave away my name). It's not always about changing things: often it's just about learning to control yourself. Self-control is a virtue that should never be underestimated.

Krisexy26 wrote:
i agree some stories are just real garbage. though sometimes theres factor to consider. for myself, ive never been good in my english classes so i make a lot of typos (its life), though it doesnt mean the heart of the story is bad, far from that. but yeah ive seen some stories that were just eh...awful <.<
There's always a few people willing to proofread things. I've been somewhat busy as of late, but as a native speaker of English, I suppose I should help out whenever I can. And it's like I've said to Karbo before: don't beat yourself up too much about your English; after all, you speak English a lot better than most of us speak French! I mean, my second language is Spanish, but I don't know that much of it.
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