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 Its a communication-palooza - Take 4

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AisuKaiko
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:35 pm

Just because you didn't get punished, doesn't make you right. You and Cliff both are acting poorly. Cliff by suddenly throwing a mssive tantrum, and you, well... posting that accusatory post.

Quote :


oh! i know. how about you write another letter on how karbo should do his job? :/


That was a list of suggestions to Karbo that was received poorly. It was not an ultimatum or a list of demands. Buddha, while his words may have been a bit harsh, said nothing about one side being right and the other wrong. He delivered criticisms to both sides. This drama won't end until those at fault act appropriately.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:54 pm

AisuKaiko wrote:
Just because you didn't get punished, doesn't make you right. You and Cliff both are acting poorly. Cliff by suddenly throwing a mssive tantrum, and you, well... posting that accusatory post.

Quote :


oh! i know. how about you write another letter on how karbo should do his job? :/


That was a list of suggestions to Karbo that was worded and delivered poorly. It was not an ultimatum or a list of demands. Buddha, while his words may have been a bit harsh, said nothing about one side being right and the other wrong. He delivered criticisms to both sides. This drama won't end until those at fault act appropriately.

Part of the problem is the fact that everyone involved disagrees about who is at fault and who should accept blame.

My only solution is simply this, forgo the cries for apology, everyone MUST do this. Everybody NEEDS to stop acting so asenine, stop the accusations the blind flaming and fighting. STOP the damn snide assed remarks and stop the hairpulling. Diplomacy NEEDS to resume now, as in RIGHT now.

The letter although was not a list of demands or terms of surrender, has obviously set off a chain of events that has caused a lot of bruised members walking away simply shaking their heads stating "WTF just happened?"

Now, Kris's journal entry has simply restarted the same thing. It was an attack from a position of invincibility, and people have obviously reacted to it because it contained a lot of venom that was utterly pointless and seemingly designed to inflame an already tense situation. I disagree with what kris wrote, but thats not the main issue here is it? From what I understand Kris's only reason for posting it was because she and Cliff had a disagreement over the calendar thread. And while I agree with Cliff on that specific issue, it is no reason to drag the Forum through the mud...

Nevertheless, everything that has happened here can, and should, be resolved through discussion, not by spitting venom in the eyes of everyone around...

Please, for the love of Felarya, let diplomacy resume. The next one to post a flame will get bitten, because if I have to post like this again, I will have MUCH to say, and NOBODY will like it. I've been a part of felarya since it's inception back in '05, and I have seen Felarya grow, and change quite a lot. I don't want to see it collapse because a bunch of members can't tollerate anything...

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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:59 pm

Gotta admit, that was a pretty nice post, Buddah.

I just want to specify two things.

First, the "drama-whores" comment was NOT about Krisexy. She did not begin bringing the drama until AFTER the letter thread, and AFTER the original bout of drama had already settled. I was referring in general to anyone who came into those threads just to stoke the flames, post about things they don't know about, and in general just make things worse. It was a general comment, not a personal insult.

Good god, that's exactly what I was talking about in another post. Why is everyone picking through every single one of my posts with a fine-toothed comb, looking for a single line that can be twisted, and then using that to taint everything else I said in the post? Its ridiculous, and it makes it impossible to get anything done.

The second thing is that, no, I never heard anything from Karbo about that thread.
- I came onto the forum and saw that it was locked. I assumed it was Timing, since he was the only mod on at the moment.
- I went onto DA and sent Karbo a note to try to find out who locked the thread and why.
- I never got a response.
- I found out from Timing a little later in the chatbox that Karbo had been the one that had locked it.
- I then sent Karbo another note on DA, once again, trying to figure out what exactly was going on.
- After I got no response, I decided to re-make the thread, to try and at least try to get an answer out of him.
- New thread got locked.
- Karbo then posted in Bael's thread (I still had no response to either of my notes on DA about the matter) and I saw him accuse my first thread of being an attack. About this time I had Krisexy and Timing both in the chatbox saying that my original thread was "full of barbs" and was only there to single out and attack people.

That is about the part where I got mad. That thread really was a genuine attempt to help the community. I really DID try to word that post calmly and neutrally. I blamed myself as well as Frenchsnack and Karbo for making things worse. Hell, I PRAISED Timing for how social he had been lately, and how he has been on the chatbox and talking to a couple people on the instant messengers. It hurt me, and bad, to see that gesture being called an attack, and "an attempt to settle old scores". I felt insulted, hurt, disrespected, and I overreacted.

Karbo has never once told me exactly which parts of my original post were offensive, nor has he given me any suggestions on how to change them. If he would have spoke up from the start, instead of rushing in to lock the thread without warning, it could have been discussed like adults and handled quickly and silently with an edit to the original post.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:12 pm

Bravo, Cliff. You didn't lose your temper, even after DIRECT ATTACKS against you. That is excellent.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:16 pm

@Krisexy26
Ok about me taking sides I believe that I insulted both you and Cliff equally so get my taking sides bullshit you of your head. I don't like your whole if I'm not with you I'm against you attitude you're putting off right now.
definition
Troll: someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Ummmm you went into a peaceful thread 5 pages in and managed to get it locked with one comment. (/b/ would be so proud of you.)

Wow you skimmed over my post good job getting all the facts before you post.
If you want me to post on your dA then fine I'll use mine for more than looking at pictures and reading stories then and tell you all of what i think about your journal.

Ok good job avoiding my question and continuing to prove yourself to be a troll to me.

Who are you to me? Well as I already said you I think you are a troll who seems determined at destroying any chances of repairing the damage that the letter caused by reigniting shit storms. If I were a mod I would have banned you already.

People are reacting hard on you because you said that almost everyone here was either stupid or an ass and that this forum isn't an inviting place (which at this point in time I would have to agree with). And the latest attempt to fix it was thwarted by your nice post.



I pray that your ban comes soon but I know that isn't going to happen because the mods here have no control over what you do on dA.

I talked about you because YOU are the latest thorn in this forums side. I said not to start flaming because ( mistakenly) I thought that you may read my post and realize what an ass you have been.

If you wanted to go and start a shit fight with Cliff you should have just done it over PM's and saved the rest of this community the grief. Since you obviously think that you are better than him based on your degrading him based on him being demoded and banned. Which last I checked happened a while ago and isn't relevant as of now.

Ummmm Did you bother to read my rant about Cliff. I don't think that I was giving him praises for too long there.
Also do you know what Hypocrite means. What you pointed out was being childish not hypocritical.

Ok talking about how Karbo is the one almighty administrator. Again not surprised you seem to through in a praise be to Karbo in most any post you make.

Ok I never mentioned writing another letter and the closest thing I said relating to Karbo doing his job was that he should handle moderating a forum better. hardly worth a letter. But again something along this line was expected from you trying to suck up to Karbo and make everyone else his enemy.

So how about you actualy read the entirety of my post? Or do you just want to continue nitpicking and taking my words out of context?

Oh I see that Cliff posted
See this was nice and not full of drama Krisexy post in this maner and maybe I'll take you seriously and retract my comment about you being a troll.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:22 pm

If it shows how much this place means to me, I'm up past 23:00 on a school night when I have to be getting up at 6:30 posting my opinion. I'm not here to attack anyone or start a fight or anything, just to let my voice be heard. Please remember that.

I believe shit was flung by both sides, and both sides could have handled it better. However, people seem to generally be willing to forgive each other and fix things. Please, for those of us who come here for the love of the world, let them make up. Understand that everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should get another chance. I understand everyone is stressed and feeling like no one cares, but please, just end the fighting. It is going to destroy the results everyone wants. Would you try to make friends with a hitman out to get you? You have to stop the attacks if you want this place to heal. Please, understand everyone makes mistakes. No one painted the Mona Lisa on their first try. But they didn't paint it by getting mad and destroying their failed attempts. Here, we are trying to paint the Mona Lisa of a healing. Remember people have feelings and that the cornered rat will bite the cat.

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, but I felt I had to voice myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:46 pm

Ok right now in my time zone it's 00:30 and I need to be leaving my house by 6:25.
Yes shit was flung on both sides I think I (not so kindly) pointed that out.
Well right now Cliff seems like he might but I'm not so sure about Krisexy.
All I did was point out their problems Cliff maned up to his but Krisexy seemed to continue thinking that she was right.
I would love for the fighting to end and this place to return to the calmness it was in before "The Letter" was sent misinterpreted and the shit storm happened.
I was being blunt and stated my opinion on BOTH sided of the matter. Although Krisexy didn't seem to notice that.
I never destroyed any failed attempts I said what went wrong with the failed attempts.

I don't see anything in your post to be taken offensively.

Now then I want to see this thread succeed where all the rest have failed. I want progress to be made. I don't want to see this thread being locked when I get up in the morning or home from school. I expect serious progress being made shit storms being handled in PRIVATE so that this thread may continue and ending with both sided realizing that they are after the same thing MAKING FELARYA A BETTER PLACE. It's not about who is right or wrong so everyone can get over themselves.
Now time for sleep Sleep
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:58 pm

Okay, let me say this. I'm tired of Cliff saying that French Snack is at fault for some reason.

I'm also tired of people accusing Krisexy of being a troll when she only wrote in her journal what she was feeling. Her intent was NOT to get people angry - certain people happened to get angry about it, and then call her a troll.

Not to mention there is a disturbing number of people that replied to her journal with similar feelings. That is more of the concern than calling her a troll. What we need to do now is get things done.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:06 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Okay, let me say this. I'm tired of Cliff saying that French Snack is at fault for some reason.
Oh, of course he isn't. It's not like he said anything nasty to the rest of us.

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Her intent was NOT to get people angry - certain people happened to get angry about it, and then call her a troll.
Kris has consistently shown that she is a level-headed person with no taste for drama whatsoever.

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Not to mention there is a disturbing number of people that replied to her journal with similar feelings.
Huh, so she's also brainwashing, too? Oh noooooo! Okay, that one was just silly. Anyone who can't take a little critique, I don't think should be here anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:11 pm

Bael, no one involved here is clean. French Snack did say some terrible things in the first thread. Krisexy said some terrible things in this thread. Cliff said terrible things as well. I may have

No one is innocent. Bael, you need to understand that making a post just to tell people that one side is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong will only ignite more flames. This goes for everyone, please. Don't do that. This conflict isn't supposed to one side versus another, but yet we're taking sides. Seriously, don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:25 pm

Honestly, whats with the word "sides" I'd like to retro fall back on this by saying in this manner BELLIGERENTS SUCK IN THIS SITUATION

At this point i don't know nor care who's making the separation but it isn't Logical to the situation at hand.If it so happens again I'll put a say on it.

Too what was going on earlier. I'd say in that post things were going peacefully well until some one gave a rather rash opinion then made someone else get all butthurt about it. A little afterwards it was actually mellowing a bit before a preemptive lock by Karbo. In logical sense that was a good decision but you should have waited it out a little longer in my opinion sir.

As for Kris and Cliff: I respect both of you for your opinions but if your going to rage on each other. do it privately like you would in rl. they aren't bad they're just...negative. Its like a combat scenario where two of my squads staff sergeants are arguing for the best tactical retaliation while the grunts are getting shot at and pinned, such myself. It really isn't a good vibe to others, as they either 'rage',want know what the decision is going to be',try to comprise between themselves, or just lose hope. which makes the situation even more worse when your not focused on the true problem.
So please keep it between yourselves. even if its not the best solution it doesn't spread to others.

Like others before me trying to rationalize this with their own stories. So everyone take the rational concerns as a plead and decide for yourselves "Does this really feel like communicating? maybe we should think this over to square one again when things were adding up"


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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:53 pm

I really like your analogy about the squad quabble. Personally I would have tried for a hockey analogy.

Anyway I've calmed down, in no small part due to asaenvolk being there. Getting mad, running away from the forum for two weeks, and then coming back to a continued debate and not having anywhere to spew my feelings to bottled up too much. I'd like to publicly thank that man for listening to me, and I think sometimes we just need someone to be there to vent to even if we disagree with them otherwise it all explodes here, and furthers the arguement.

At Karbo though and Timing2 for that matter: I shouldn't need to say this, but before locking a thread, it's advised to give a warning first, otherwise people get mad and confused, and then we see the results that come from it. I believe that's part of our communication issue.

Granted I haven't exactly been as helpful as I could have - nor should I have run away for two weeks and hide while everyone dukes it out, so I'd like to offer my own apology for not helping either.

Still. We have a thread up about brainstorming ideas to put down for decisions to be made about how to better and heal our community. I'd request we all go and do some of that to get our minds off this mess.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:59 pm

Thank you, Bael. I was getting frustrated at you for a bit there, but I'm glad you've calmed down.

Yeah, everyone has fucked up by this point. Join the club.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:17 am

Thanks. I know, it feels terrible having kinda blown up like that. Though honestly I was trying my best to keep my personal opinions off the forum. I hope respect for me hasn't drained much. Seriously though, we've nearly been at this for two months.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:42 am

I know. I think we've pretty much forgotten WHY we started fighting in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:17 am

Oh no, people remember. That's the problem.
Grave was right, people are being childish. The attitude "They did it to me so it's ok for me to do it to them" is the attitude of a child. Tit for tat, an eye for an eye doesn't work in this situation, so please, stop.


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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:36 am

Can't we just move on this subject and get to what REALLY is important already? I'm pretty damn sick of this community erupting into flames every now and then for completely petty reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:44 am

well yeah pre-emptively locking that thread wasn't a good course of action. Somehow I naively though it could avoid another shitstorm but it sure didn't. It seems the appetite for drama of some is well and running.
Well not me. I'm sick of it and sick of seing that community sink further and further. Now if you want to flame each others, make your little crusade, accuse somebody of being a terrible person, an idiot, a troll or whatever you will do it by private messages.

I don't want to see any more of this shit spilled all over the place and I'm going to distribute warnings left and right from now on.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:17 am

al right i agree with most of ur points :/

bael, omg i love you :/ openly taking my defense...<3

also, for the rest of you, id like to point completely neutral and objectively: with all the things that happened, no one sent me a pm or a note :/ only pm i sent was to karbo because i was sorry that everything had blewn up :/

for now on, i gotta go to work...so i hope no one will reply how much im a **** <.<
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:19 am

I wish people would just put all these negative feelings away and learn to make up.

This really pisses me off that, just 2 weeks ago, everyone was down MY throat because I couldn't let things go.

I took a break and now I'm calm, and I'm willing to let things go. NOW WILL YOU PEOPLE DO THE SAME?! I'M TRYING TO CARE ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY, BUT ALL I SEE IS MONKEYS FLINGING CRAP AT EACHOTHER.

IT'S GETTING OLD. NOW SHUT UP AND MAKE UP. WE'RE ALL AT FAULT, AND WE SHOULD ALL BE WILLING TO APOLOGIZE.

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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:24 am

Karbo wrote:
It seems the appetite for drama of some is well and running.
Well not me. I'm sick of it and sick of seing that community sink further and further. Now if you want to flame each others, make your little crusade, accuse somebody of being a terrible person, an idiot, a troll or whatever you will do it by private messages.
I agree, but that could be interpreted as hostile, Karbo. You know, like the "barbs" that were discussed earlier. It's good to see you're listening to reason, because now most of us are, but some people could easily see that as targeting someone in particular, which is the very thing you locked Cliff's thread for. I know we're on the road to recovery, but until we're all the way, we should tread lightly.

Krisexy26 wrote:
so i hope no one will reply how much im a **** <.<
I need to point out that once again, a little barb seems apparent to me. I'm willing to believe it was entirely unintentional, so I want to address it before it's taken out of context. This could be seen as spiteful sarcasm directed towards certain people, and like I said to Karbo, we all need to tread a little lightly until the wounds are healed more.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:06 pm

Pendragon wrote:
I wish people would just put all these negative feelings away and learn to make up.

This really pisses me off that, just 2 weeks ago, everyone was down MY throat because I couldn't let things go.

I took a break and now I'm calm, and I'm willing to let things go. NOW WILL YOU PEOPLE DO THE SAME?! I'M TRYING TO CARE ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY, BUT ALL I SEE IS MONKEYS FLINGING CRAP AT EACHOTHER.

IT'S GETTING OLD. NOW SHUT UP AND MAKE UP. WE'RE ALL AT FAULT, AND WE SHOULD ALL BE WILLING TO APOLOGIZE.
Pendragon's right. And frankly, it's about time I start taking a more proactive attitude to all this.

Frankly, Cliff, you're making a bovarist of yourself lately. If you really care at all about having harmony here, you need to put in perspective what you expect to accomplish this way. Your actions are not conductive to harmony- neither in the long, nor the short run.
If you haven't noticed how you don't line up, you're a bovarist. If you know it, you're a hypocrite. Now please consider- even if we come to see things your way, what would we accomplish? We know what you're trying to do, but you're going about it the wrong way. We need to make sure there's positive material out there- not to deny the negative material. Kristine has a right to her feelings- so do you, but you're the one who claims, at least, to be trying to improve things.

Think carefully about what you expect to accomplish, and how you're going about it.


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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:34 pm

Stabs, I am sure Cliff is well aware of his errors. There is no need to harp upon it anymore. We have all told Cliff that he was out of line, and he has said already that he realizes this.
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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:40 pm

Oh drat.

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PostSubject: Re: Its a communication-palooza - Take 4   Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:44 pm

Spoiler:
 
I never said that I supported Cliff in saying that french snack was at fault but also never brought up that specific point.
I never said she was a troll for posting on her dA she was a troll for ruining a peaceful thread. What she said in her post could have just as easily been sent as a pm to Cliff and avoided the closure of the original thread.
I do have to agree though that the bigger problem at hand would be those who replied with similar feelings. I donít know the specifics of each person and would like to dismiss (at least) partially some of those who posted as people who couldnít take criticism to one of their ideas or stories but like I said I donít know the specifics of each and every person who posted.
Spoiler:
 

The way I see it right now is that each Ďsideí has certain valid points that either isnít being acknowledged by the other or being buried in a post full of flaming and being dismissed entirely.
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Yes please take all posts consisting purley of insults in private. That goes for everyone.
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The locking of the original tread came too early as ravaging vixens pointed out. There is a saying ďthe path to hell is paved with the best intentionsĒ I understand that you were trying to avoid another shitstorm but you didnít communicate the reason why you locked the tread or give warning that it was even going to occur. This left people confused and angry.
I myself am sick of all the drama. I want this community to get back on track.
Even the crusades were fought with good intentions. Maybe I should say why I said what I said.
I am tired of seeing threads pop up about fixing the problems with the community. I have seen too many of these threads. The problems should have been able to be resolved in a single thread but one way or another each of the threads save this one has been locked/deleted. Given the latest drama I chose to write my post targeting those who I saw as an observer as being in the wrong and typed up my post telling what I thought of them based on the way they were acting. I felt no need for sugar coating it. I chose to post this as opposed to privately message the individuals because I didnít want anyone thinking that I was taking Ďsidesí (although this apparently didnít work). I wanted those who I (not so suttly) pointed out to take a good long look at what I wrote and ask themselves ďDo I really come off like that?Ē
Iím happy to hear that you will be distributing warnings as itís something that I feel has been neglected that shouldnít have been.
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Yes put away the negative feelings. Yes make up
Maybe a break would be helpful.
This is getting very old. But shutting up and just saying youíre sorry wonít suffice. Those parties involved need to contact each other and communicate (not flame) why exactly they arenít seeing eye to eye. Repressing your resentment toward someone will only cause that person to lash out unnecessarily at the other party at an inappropriate time. In order for any lasting peace to last all parties involved must genuinely communicate with one another and find common ground to base their communication so that and understanding can be made between the them.
Yes we are all at fault and we should all be apologizing and I will write mine here.
I have already stated my intentions for writing my post above. Could I have written it in a less blunt way? Yes, I could but I feel what I said needed to be said. I will be making no attempt to edit any of my prior posts as what I have said has already been read and will only serve to confuse anyone else who attempts to read this topic and find out what is going on. I feel that what I said however accusative and cruel was at the very least given some background on to why I said what I said.
Krisexy I was harsh on you because you took a thread that was going well made a provocative post directed at one person in particular and told everyone else to ignore it. What you said could have been done in a PM and that would have avoided the whole seen that was made. This post to me seemed solely made to cause unnecessary drama (which I labeled as Trolling). After skimming through my post you proceeded to accuse me of taking sides; ignoring the questions I asked you and responding in an overall sarcastic tone. Which admittedly pissed me off as I felt that you missed the entire point of my post and I proceeded to respond to you harshly and openly over the forum which I admit I should of at the very least listened to my own advise and PMed you and avoided making an ass and hypocrite of myself. Now then I would like to ask you a serious question and would expect a serious answer. Why did you choose to comment in the original thread signaling out one person in particular as opposed to simply PMing them?
Now to Cliff and Karbo
I believe that Cliff had the best of intentions with his original topic but Karbo in his shyness chose not to point out things that he saw of inappropriate in Cliffs post. Several pages were added to the topic without incident until Krisexy joined in made her post for whatever reason and started the tread toward potential flaming. Karbo preemptively closed the thread but gave no warning of this happening or explanation why before any fighting had a chance to break out. Cliff proceeded to repost his thread and got it locked down once again repost and close post and now we are here. Both Cliff and Karbo acted wrongly in my opinion. Cliff you acted like a child throwing a temper tantrum and Karbo you told Cliff to fix his post but never said in particular what needed to be fixed which only fueled Cliffs frustration.
I apologize for any hurt feeling that may have resulted from my post but I said what needed to be said.
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