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 Equality of Species in Negav

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Axel Hunter
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PostSubject: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:03 pm

There has been a burning issue with me concerning the number of species allowed within the walls of Negav.

So far ive heard of humans, nekos, and elves allowed within the city walls, yet very time I create a character that is not one of these three species and isnt a giant or a predator (nagas, part-dryads, vampires, homuculi, ect) They have been denied acess to the city

And yet Ive read stories of other species living within the walls (Claire the dridder queen owning a restraunt there, or a few other examples that I cant name right now)

So what is the deal?
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:16 pm

Firstly, Claire owns her restaurant in Negav through intermediaries, in particular a neko. A giant predator couldn't get into the city. As for other records of other species... well, I don't think they exist.

Non-tauric species are generally allowed inside Negav. This is mostly humans, nekos and elves, but other humanoid species, like inus, lemurians and vampires are allowed. Among these, there is a hierarchy. Humans, through the organizations of the Vishmitals and Magiocrats tend to dominate the city. Elves, with more than a few members in high society and the Magiocrats also are in a position of relative power, though are less numerous. Other species tend to be lower on the social ladder. Nekos have a bit of prejudice against them since the Great Destruction (1940 A.U.), with their leadership of the city often being blamed. They, lemurian and inus are often seen as "wilder" races. Vampires tend to have a bad reputation and aren't trusted and have a fairly small population, as they can't reproduce - they tend to keep to themselves.

Human-sized Tauric species are restricted to living, at the best, near Negav, within the range of the Isolon Eye but not within its walls. This law has been in effect since the Great Destruction. The largest concentration of these species, as can be found in the wiki, is the Motamo docks, but there may be small communities existing in the Commons. Even half-breeds (if tauric and non-tauric species can breed at all) probably would not be allowed under this law.

Probably the most reviled species are fairies and there is little record of them living near Negav - their size-changing magic can keep them safe from many threats and so they wouldn't need the protection of the Isolon Eye. This same magic would make Negavians highly suspicious of them, even if they appeared to be able to survive within the field.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:18 am

Also don't mistake visiting for living within. Neia, my non giant naga might visit Negav, but she never stays long and probably sleeps in the docs or at least where she is hard to find. Still going into Negav is not exactly safe for her, she is after all considered something of a threat by some, others find the concept of her being a danger to any one silly. So while some people may throw tomatos at her, other people she has helped in the past may stick up for her. On store owner might threaten to "turn her in" for so much as being close to a store, where as a book store owner may give her special attention every time she passes by, its would vary greatly. You can assume racial tension runs high with some people, but with such a mobile and culturally divers group of people it is hardly going to be universal. Peoples from hundreds of worlds move through Negav, many are only there for a while, some only care about prophet, some are smug and superior, others full of idealism, others have real reasons for their hatred of various races like nagas.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:22 am

lets not forget there are tomthumbs and neera in negav Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:27 am

Why are we even bringing up vampires? There's only ever been one to make it into the wiki, and really they are just modified humans. I really doubt there's more than a dozen of them in all of known Felarya, and they'd probably just pretend to be humans since they can't reproduce and make more vampires. I imagine if the Isolon Fist found out that a group of creatures that feed on human blood lived within Negav's walls, they'd quickly mobilize to get rid of them.

But yeah, as far as Negav goes...
Inside the walls:
- Humans
- Elves
- Humanoid demi-humans (Nekos, Inu, etc)
- Neera/Tomthumbs (Although, Im pretty sure they are required to live in a designated area within the city)

Outside the walls:
- Humans
- Human-sized hybrids (Nagas, Dridders, Harpies, and probably even some mermaids in the nearby river)

Note: Fairies are not part of the human-sized hybrid category. The Eye affects them the same no matter what size they are. Even a tiny fairy couldn't get close to the city. Dusk Nymphs seem to be the only exception, being immune to the Eye for some reason. But they are exceedingly rare, and they tend to live further north in the jungle, and are generally a non-issue for Negav.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:49 am

rcs619 wrote:
Why are we even bringing up vampires? There's only ever been one to make it into the wiki, and really they are just modified humans. I really doubt there's more than a dozen of them in all of known Felarya, and they'd probably just pretend to be humans since they can't reproduce and make more vampires. I imagine if the Isolon Fist found out that a group of creatures that feed on human blood lived within Negav's walls, they'd quickly mobilize to get rid of them.


My character Klaus is more human than vampire, only drinks blood donated by blood banks once a month AND has the ability to reproduce.... would that not count for something
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:52 am

Now, on one hand, I'm not going to say that there aren't vampires in Negav. I understand that they are a minority on the wiki, but in such a big city like Negav, I see no reason for there to at least be a small community.

But for your character - vampires can't reproduce. Normally they would spread through infection, but they can't do that on Felarya. That keeps their numbers small.

Also, with the healing factor, I wonder if vampires need to drink blood? Physically, I mean - would they be able to go longer in Felarya without it? There would still, be of course, a mental addiction to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:06 am

Jętte_Troll wrote:


But for your character - vampires can't reproduce.

That depends on how you make your character. I dont play by the rules of character creation, I think outside the box and get creative. And besides, Klaus isnt exactly a Felarya native
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:10 am

Jętte_Troll wrote:
Now, on one hand, I'm not going to say that there aren't vampires in Negav. I understand that they are a minority on the wiki, but in such a big city like Negav, I see no reason for there to at least be a small community.

But for your character - vampires can't reproduce. Normally they would spread through infection, but they can't do that on Felarya. That keeps their numbers small.

Also, with the healing factor, I wonder if vampires need to drink blood? Physically, I mean - would they be able to go longer in Felarya without it? There would still, be of course, a mental addiction to it.
Well, the part about needing blood, that's like saying that you don't need to eat at all in Felarya, which was debunked.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:48 am

Axel Hunter wrote:
That depends on how you make your character. I dont play by the rules of character creation,
*Bzzt* Rules are there for your protection.
Axel Hunter wrote:
I think outside the box and get creative. And besides, Klaus isnt exactly a Felarya native
Neither is any other vampire in Felarya. There are no native vampires because vampires can't reproduce in Felarya.

If you're talking about a species that are really similar to vampires in many ways but are not actually vampires. (ie: they reproduce sexually with other members of their own species), I suggest you call them "Nosferatu" or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:32 am

Axel Hunter wrote:
Jętte_Troll wrote:


But for your character - vampires can't reproduce.

That depends on how you make your character. I dont play by the rules of character creation, I think outside the box and get creative. And besides, Klaus isnt exactly a Felarya native

Yeah, Vampires can only really make other vampires in two ways.

1: A bacterial/viral infection (Blade, and most modern vampire movies, for example): This doesn't work because of the way the healing factor in Felarya boosts a person's immune system.

2: Magic (most old vampire stories and movies): In this case, the vampirism is caused by some sort of magic effect delivered through a bite. This method is considered a form of necromancy (since the victim dies and then has their body reanimated through the magical influence), so it does not work either.

While Vampires can, and do, come into Felarya from other worlds occaisionally, it is impossible for them to make more Vampires in Felarya itself. Because of this, all Vampires in Felarya are offworlders.

Also, if you think about it, with people in Felarya already being immortal, there's no draw to be a vampire. You just gain a bunch of weaknesses to go along with the immortality you already had.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:02 am

Quote :
*Bzzt* Rules are there for your protection.

Wait what? I am currently working on a few characters right now and I really don't want to make any mistakes so if you could PM me these rules or give me a link?
Thanks!!

As for the vampires? I agree that while there is only one vampire that has made it to the wiki I think that they should be included in Negav since they do are creatures that are interesting at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:00 pm

There is no equality as far as I can see.

Whoever can eat who first is more equal. At least that's what I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:04 pm

Pendragon wrote:
There is no equality as far as I can see.

Whoever can eat who first is more equal. At least that's what I think.

Thats the rule of equality for the jungle and for bigger species vs. smaller species.

This is about similar sized, but different species.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:42 pm

You forgot one other thing about vampire spreading:

Blood. A vampire can turn someone into a vampire if they inject their blood into a victim, that's not exactly a disease, and can't be countered by the soil. They biologically turn into a vampire, and it's not necromancy, since said person doesn't need to die before turning.

@pim18: I have a story called "Remembrance" in my DA gallery (it's about a vampire coming to felarya, you get to see some of her homeworld too). You can get to my DA via links in my signature.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:03 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
that's not exactly a disease, and can't be countered by the soil.
That is unproven, and is thus a point of contention. If it is biological, it implies that mutagens are present, which could possibly be countered by a strengthened immune system.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:05 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
You forgot one other thing about vampire spreading:

Blood. A vampire can turn someone into a vampire if they inject their blood into a victim, that's not exactly a disease, and can't be countered by the soil. They biologically turn into a vampire, and it's not necromancy, since said person doesn't need to die before turning.

@pim18: I have a story called "Remembrance" in my DA gallery (it's about a vampire coming to felarya, you get to see some of her homeworld too). You can get to my DA via links in my signature.

Uh, Bael, isn't that directly counter to Felaran Canon?
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Black Aquila wrote:
Archmage_Bael wrote:
You forgot one other thing about vampire spreading:

Blood. A vampire can turn someone into a vampire if they inject their blood into a victim, that's not exactly a disease, and can't be countered by the soil. They biologically turn into a vampire, and it's not necromancy, since said person doesn't need to die before turning.

@pim18: I have a story called "Remembrance" in my DA gallery (it's about a vampire coming to felarya, you get to see some of her homeworld too). You can get to my DA via links in my signature.

Uh, Bael, isn't that directly counter to Felaran Canon?

The canon on vampires, now that ive seen it, may need to be stretched a tad... I mean, I know weve been through this before, but not all vampires are going to be like what you see in Dracula or Van Helsing... just sayin

Look at my own Vampire Klaus from earth... he has a high immunity to sunlight (if he stays out to long it frys him), only needs to drink blood once a month, his eyes act like mood rings that change colors with emotions, and the only magic he has is a living shadow.

but thats not the point, what is the point, HERES THE POINT!

Biological transformation does negate the rule on necro magic, but I find it a facinating theory... berhaps the vampire rule can bend just a bit

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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:09 pm

Axel Hunter wrote:

Biological transformation does negate the rule on necro magic, but I find it a facinating theory... berhaps the vampire rule can bend just a bit
Does that negate the rule against infections?
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:11 pm

Well we set up the point on vampires not being able to reproduce because we put forth two different ideas. Then we decided that would be canon, however, if you want to include vampires in Felarya (which is inevitable, and there is a canon vamp anyway), the theories on vampires are evolving a lot, and it's an important factor in a good vampire story. The fact is, that is a legitimate theory about how vampires would spread (reproducing is another matter entirely, I think.) Therefore, this theory would have to be canon as well, since you're including vampires.

Now one way would be to say that Felarya totally rejects vampires that spread via blood injection, that could be one way of hand-waving the problem. That would make my vampire story a bit difficult though, so personally I am against that notion.

Of course, the base idea is that we don't want plagues of undead in Felarya, no necromancy either (in addition to a few other "unwanted" things that don't have anything to do with vampires). It really begs the question though whether or not a vampire is classified as undead or not. The original reason was that a vampire came from a human who died, but if a human doesn't die to become a vampire, then they never become undead right? It requires a deeper in-depth explanation of how vampires are specifically allowed.

Of course the soil was the way to counter undead, and to let inhabitants not die of old age, to be immune to catching diseases, but as the world evolved, we realized the soil can't be a "do-everything" solution, and that everything has exceptions...

Therefore it is likely that some vampires can reproduce/spread in Felarya, based on what kind of vampire they are, sort of like how every one uses magic differently, some magic is allowed, and some magic isn't.

We could also argue the likeliness of the way a vampire spreads, but out of the three proposed ideas, I find that becoming a vampire via injected blood is a lot more plausible than someone becoming a vampire by getting bitten and having their blood sucked out instead. Granted, vampires are mythological creatures anyway, and it's nigh pointless debating whether or not a vampire's way of spreading is realistic or not.

Also mutations don't occur within the same generation, and being dead first and coming back a minute later wont work either. Mutations happen generations after, but somehow, vampires spread - so it's pointless debating that segment of vampire theory.



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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:12 pm

ZionAtriedes wrote:
Axel Hunter wrote:

Biological transformation does negate the rule on necro magic, but I find it a facinating theory... berhaps the vampire rule can bend just a bit
Does that negate the rule against infections?

Considering that the body is resistant to sudden changes, it is a complex chemical system in balance, I think any sudden mutations such as 'vampirisation' would be resisted by the immune system.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:21 pm

CauldronBorn24 wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
Axel Hunter wrote:

Biological transformation does negate the rule on necro magic, but I find it a facinating theory... berhaps the vampire rule can bend just a bit
Does that negate the rule against infections?

Considering that the body is resistant to sudden changes, it is a complex chemical system in balance, I think any sudden mutations such as 'vampirisation' would be resisted by the immune system.
That is exactly what I had figured.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:23 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Well we set up the point on vampires not being able to reproduce because we put forth two different ideas. Then we decided that would be canon, however, if you want to include vampires in Felarya (which is inevitable, and there is a canon vamp anyway), the theories on vampires are evolving a lot, and it's an important factor in a good vampire story. The fact is, that is a legitimate theory about how vampires would spread (reproducing is another matter entirely, I think.) Therefore, this theory would have to be canon as well, since you're including vampires.

Now one way would be to say that Felarya totally rejects vampires that spread via blood injection, that could be one way of hand-waving the problem. That would make my vampire story a bit difficult though, so personally I am against that notion.

Of course, the base idea is that we don't want plagues of undead in Felarya, no necromancy either (in addition to a few other "unwanted" things that don't have anything to do with vampires). It really begs the question though whether or not a vampire is classified as undead or not. The original reason was that a vampire came from a human who died, but if a human doesn't die to become a vampire, then they never become undead right? It requires a deeper in-depth explanation of how vampires are specifically allowed.

Of course the soil was the way to counter undead, and to let inhabitants not die of old age, to be immune to catching diseases, but as the world evolved, we realized the soil can't be a "do-everything" solution, and that everything has exceptions...

Therefore it is likely that some vampires can reproduce/spread in Felarya, based on what kind of vampire they are, sort of like how every one uses magic differently, some magic is allowed, and some magic isn't.

We could also argue the likeliness of the way a vampire spreads, but out of the three proposed ideas, I find that becoming a vampire via injected blood is a lot more plausible than someone becoming a vampire by getting bitten and having their blood sucked out instead. Granted, vampires are mythological creatures anyway, and it's nigh pointless debating whether or not a vampire's way of spreading is realistic or not.

Vampires only reproduce in one of two ways though.

- Biological, through the use of a viral/bacterial infection, or some other substance in the saliva/blood of the vampire. This is counteracted by the healing factor of Felarya and how it boosts a person's immune system.

- Magical, through a type of necromancy. In this case, the victim actually dies in the process and his/her body is animated by magic, making them into an undead creature. Necromancy does not work in Felarya, so this type of Vampire reproduction doesn't work either.

In short, Vampires cannot spread their affliction to others. Unlike on Earth, there's no incentive for anyone to want to become a vampire anyway. People on Felarya are already immortal, and becoming a vampire would just tack on a fatal weakness to sunlight, and the uncontrollable compulsion to drink the blood of non-vampires. Vampirism is a hinderance at best, and an absolute curse at worst. It isn't, and should not be a good thing. The only benefits being a vampire ever had were immortality and enhanced abilities...but at a huge, huge cost.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:30 pm

rcs619 wrote:
Archmage_Bael wrote:
Well we set up the point on vampires not being able to reproduce because we put forth two different ideas. Then we decided that would be canon, however, if you want to include vampires in Felarya (which is inevitable, and there is a canon vamp anyway), the theories on vampires are evolving a lot, and it's an important factor in a good vampire story. The fact is, that is a legitimate theory about how vampires would spread (reproducing is another matter entirely, I think.) Therefore, this theory would have to be canon as well, since you're including vampires.

Now one way would be to say that Felarya totally rejects vampires that spread via blood injection, that could be one way of hand-waving the problem. That would make my vampire story a bit difficult though, so personally I am against that notion.

Of course, the base idea is that we don't want plagues of undead in Felarya, no necromancy either (in addition to a few other "unwanted" things that don't have anything to do with vampires). It really begs the question though whether or not a vampire is classified as undead or not. The original reason was that a vampire came from a human who died, but if a human doesn't die to become a vampire, then they never become undead right? It requires a deeper in-depth explanation of how vampires are specifically allowed.

Of course the soil was the way to counter undead, and to let inhabitants not die of old age, to be immune to catching diseases, but as the world evolved, we realized the soil can't be a "do-everything" solution, and that everything has exceptions...

Therefore it is likely that some vampires can reproduce/spread in Felarya, based on what kind of vampire they are, sort of like how every one uses magic differently, some magic is allowed, and some magic isn't.

We could also argue the likeliness of the way a vampire spreads, but out of the three proposed ideas, I find that becoming a vampire via injected blood is a lot more plausible than someone becoming a vampire by getting bitten and having their blood sucked out instead. Granted, vampires are mythological creatures anyway, and it's nigh pointless debating whether or not a vampire's way of spreading is realistic or not.

Vampires only reproduce in one of two ways though.

- Biological, through the use of a viral/bacterial infection, or some other substance in the saliva/blood of the vampire. This is counteracted by the healing factor of Felarya and how it boosts a person's immune system.

- Magical, through a type of necromancy. In this case, the victim actually dies in the process and his/her body is animated by magic, making them into an undead creature. Necromancy does not work in Felarya, so this type of Vampire reproduction doesn't work either.

In short, Vampires cannot spread their affliction to others. Unlike on Earth, there's no incentive for anyone to want to become a vampire anyway. People on Felarya are already immortal, and becoming a vampire would just tack on a fatal weakness to sunlight, and the uncontrollable compulsion to drink the blood of non-vampires. Vampirism is a hinderance at best, and an absolute curse at worst. It isn't, and should not be a good thing. The only benefits being a vampire ever had were immortality and enhanced abilities...but at a huge, huge cost.

Of course there's no reason to want to become a vampire. However, that doesn't mean you have to be weak to sunlight. Vampires are based off bats, some bats can live in sunlight. This furthers my explanation about how it depends on the kind of vampire you are.

"- Biological, through the use of a viral/bacterial infection, or some other substance in the saliva/blood of the vampire. This is counteracted by the healing factor of Felarya and how it boosts a person's immune system.

- Magical, through a type of necromancy. In this case, the victim actually dies in the process and his/her body is animated by magic, making them into an undead creature. Necromancy does not work in Felarya, so this type of Vampire reproduction doesn't work either."

^You missed transformation via blood injection.

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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:34 pm

rcs619 wrote:


Vampires only reproduce in one of two ways though.

- Biological, through the use of a viral/bacterial infection, or some other substance in the saliva/blood of the vampire. This is counteracted by the healing factor of Felarya and how it boosts a person's immune system.

- Magical, through a type of necromancy. In this case, the victim actually dies in the process and his/her body is animated by magic, making them into an undead creature. Necromancy does not work in Felarya, so this type of Vampire reproduction doesn't work either.

In short, Vampires cannot spread their affliction to others. Unlike on Earth, there's no incentive for anyone to want to become a vampire anyway. People on Felarya are already immortal, and becoming a vampire would just tack on a fatal weakness to sunlight, and the uncontrollable compulsion to drink the blood of non-vampires. Vampirism is a hinderance at best, and an absolute curse at worst. It isn't, and should not be a good thing. The only benefits being a vampire ever had were immortality and enhanced abilities...but at a huge, huge cost.

"based on what kind of vampire they are" If I remembere reading in the quote. What if the vampire was more human than beast and reproduced the old fasioned way like us humans, eh?
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