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 Equality of Species in Negav

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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:48 pm

rcs619 wrote:
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Now Crisis certainly is not monstrous by being wicked and cruel, but she does fit the first definition.

Yes she is. She eats and kills random humans who have done nothing to her. They die slowly and painfully over the course of several minutes. She also often toys with her prey before eating them, sometimes giving them the false-hope that she will let them go before she eats them. Crisis is no saint. For all her kindness to her friends, she has a very dark side to her prey. She's very much a monster, also in both senses of the word.
Cliff, don't make me quote you in my sig twice.
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Grave
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:55 pm

Crisis eats what she views as food, because it tastes good, not because she takes some sick delight in killing people. What she does is not monstrous in the slightest.

A vampire must drink blood in order to survive. How can you call them monstrous and cruel for doing what they must in order to live?

Are humans monstrous for turning god-knows-how-many species into meals?
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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:55 pm

Grave wrote:
Are humans monstrous for turning god-knows-how-many species into meals?
Yep. But we're the monsters with the guns.
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:12 pm

We were born monsters. Weapons made us abominations.
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Grave
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:17 pm

But if humans are monsters then nothing is, because then the word loses all relative meaning.
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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:21 pm

You could argue that. But at least most of us aren't super-sadistic about being omnivorous.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:23 pm

This current "are preds monsters because they X" has been done before many times, years ago. I'm surprised it's going on now, I thought we had discussed this enough. It's pretty much beating a dead horse a this point.
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Axel Hunter
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:40 pm

Anime-Junkie wrote:
This current "are preds monsters because they X" has been done before many times, years ago. I'm surprised it's going on now, I thought we had discussed this enough. It's pretty much beating a dead horse a this point.


Sad This is all my fault, all because I argued about a vampire in Negav... now look at this, I started a freaking war.
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rcs619
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:43 pm

Axel Hunter wrote:
Anime-Junkie wrote:
This current "are preds monsters because they X" has been done before many times, years ago. I'm surprised it's going on now, I thought we had discussed this enough. It's pretty much beating a dead horse a this point.


Sad This is all my fault, all because I argued about a vampire in Negav... now look at this, I started a freaking war.

This isn't a war. Don't be so hard on yourself.
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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:44 pm

Axel Hunter wrote:
Anime-Junkie wrote:
This current "are preds monsters because they X" has been done before many times, years ago. I'm surprised it's going on now, I thought we had discussed this enough. It's pretty much beating a dead horse a this point.


Sad This is all my fault, all because I argued about a vampire in Negav... now look at this, I started a freaking war.
You think this is war? This is a discussion. We're being civil, and trying to explain our points.

OY. Not every discussion is a fight. That ANNOYS the PISS out of me.
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Darkstorm Zero
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:57 pm

Perception of how one views another is very important here. We as humans would view Crisis's actions as monsterous only because it is perpetrated against Humans, thats really the only reason.

Same with Vampires. We view their actions as monsterous because it is perpetrated against Humans as well.

The main reason humans view any other species as monsterous is purely because usually humans are victims and no other reason.

Perception shapes the direction of thought.

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My friend jason, reading something totally inelligable = "You can make sense out of this? do tell! I've been staring at it for the last 20 minutes trying to find some modicum of an english word among the mountains of what basically amounts to this guy eating his keyboard!"

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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:58 pm

No, I find her actions against nekos reprehensible as well, and I would if it was against any other sapient being. Or, really, anything sentient.

To quote Paragon Commander Shepard from Mass Effect 1: "Being human had nothing to do with it. I would've saved that colony if they were turians, or salarians!"
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Darkstorm Zero
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:14 pm

Oh, don't get me wrong, I find it just as disturbing.

My point being is that our point of view is that of a human, not that of a Naga or a Vampire or a Guardian or anything else for that matter. Our oppinion obviously is influenced by our perception, or "Point of view".

Because Neko's are similar enough to humans, we feel empathy for them, therefore we still get the sense of disgust of their death. Example, if a human killed and ate a Neko, thye would still be viewed as a cannibal right?

Thats another thing, Sapience...

Basically, sapience is translated to a very human feeling of Empathy and Sense of Reason. These two traits is esentially all sapience really is, an external method of showing emotion, not nessisarily emotion itself.

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In the end, there can be only one....

My friend jason, reading something totally inelligable = "You can make sense out of this? do tell! I've been staring at it for the last 20 minutes trying to find some modicum of an english word among the mountains of what basically amounts to this guy eating his keyboard!"

Internet Rage In Progress!
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CauldronBorn24
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:17 pm

Darkstorm's point is still valid; it is because we can relate to the victim, we show empathy, that alters our perception. His exampke was rather narrow in stating that it is because the victims are the same species as ourselves.

However on the otherside, one who shows no empathy be it for trees, humans or predators will be capable of terrible things indeed.
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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:22 pm

I feel empathy for anything that can express feelings. That's the underlying point of my case.
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Pim18
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:51 am

ZionAtriedes wrote:
I feel empathy for anything that can express feelings. That's the underlying point of my case.

Hear Hear!!

But if we are going any deeper then some people might get headaches... It's like felarya meets inception... WE NEED TO GO DEEPER!!!
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Grave
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:38 pm

ZionAtriedes wrote:
I feel empathy for anything that can express feelings. That's the underlying point of my case.

Then why not empathize with creatures who must feed off others to live. I'm pretty sure they have feelings too.
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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:55 pm

Grave wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
I feel empathy for anything that can express feelings. That's the underlying point of my case.

Then why not empathize with creatures who must feed off others to live. I'm pretty sure they have feelings too.
Yeah, but they could simply cut out sapient creatures from their diet, and could still survive. It's already been established that predators do NOT require humans to survive, thus making the "they need to do it to live" argument moot.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:59 pm

Still, they're predators, it's what they do.
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Krisexy26
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:01 pm

they have a brain too. they just do no emphatize. theyre monsters. theyre even taking pleasure to it!
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ZionAtriedes
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:05 pm

Well, Krisexy, though I am a pro-human (and, by extension, a supporter of our fellow victims such as the nekos and inu), I must also acknowledge that most predators are uneducated and know no better. They do not know that humans are every bit as intelligent as they are, or that they are sapient people. Those that do, however, shall receive no sympathy from me!
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Grave
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:05 pm

Krisexy26 wrote:
they have a brain too. they just do no emphatize. theyre monsters. theyre even taking pleasure to it!

No they do. Just not for what they consider food, the same way Nekos view Neera.

They aren't heartless. They're hungry.
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:06 pm

When I'm hungry, you don't see me eating infants, do ya?
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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:08 pm

ZionAtriedes wrote:
When I'm hungry, you don't see me eating infants, do ya?

That's cannibalism.

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PostSubject: Re: Equality of Species in Negav   Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:20 pm

Grave wrote:
ZionAtriedes wrote:
When I'm hungry, you don't see me eating infants, do ya?

That's cannibalism.

Other species do it. What's wrong with humans doing it?
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