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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:38 am

Just wondering if it made sense to reorganize the Science and Magic page in the wiki. I know it might seem like nitpicking, but I thought the placement of Psionics under magic was a little odd. The following arrangement feels a little more organized, imho...

Edit: Reposted below


Last edited by gt500x on Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:21 am

The thing with psionics is that it's so similar to magic it's often mistaken for magic.
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CauldronBorn24
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:37 am

Psionics is still a paranormal phenomena, if you can explain something in great detail concerning the what and the why and how, you could call it a science, even magic. Infact at the Isolon University what we would call magic is more like science to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:52 am

I thought this might be worth reposting from vent...

Quote :
06/11 09:46:17 gt500x: metaphor: cars can accomplish the same purpose on different fuels
06/11 09:47:20 gt500x: but a ICE is not the same as an electric engine, though they serve the same purpose


CauldronBorn24 wrote:
Psionics is still a paranormal phenomena, if you can explain something in great detail concerning the what and the why and how, you could call it a science, even magic. Infact at the Isolon University what we would call magic is more like science to them.

Magic is a science. Yeah, I can manage to see it that way.
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:10 am

Basically, sufficiently analyzed and detailed magic feels like a scientific branch.
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Oldman40k2003
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:39 pm

Sean Okotami wrote:
Basically, sufficiently analyzed and detailed magic feels like a scientific branch.

Though you might have to invent that field of science first.

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"...you can't explain everything with science." - Our own "Sean Okotami"
Sure you can, though you may have to invent a new field of science first.

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
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Karbo
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:11 am

I think it's a nice point and it makes more sense than the current page indeed Smile
though I'm still wondering about the whole organization at this stage. For example we could also have something like :

MAGIC

- Different type of magic

-Constructs

-Planology ( studies of different planes and theories. the Hell and heaven entry could go there )


SCIENCE

-Technology

-Mineralogy

-Biology ( link to the fauna and flora )


PRACTICAL USE

Link to the equipment / weapon / vehicle section.


What do you think ? Please don't hesitate to propose your own, it's still very much in progress at this stage ^^
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Pendragon
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:29 am

Yes, I'm in support of this. We need a bit better classification of this magic/science business. I'm not a fan of some people just blindly throwing it into every story possible without at least some base to work off of.
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:07 am

Reposted below


Last edited by gt500x on Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:11 am

I disagree that "Psionics" should be in science just because it's not actual magic. It's still very much a supernatural phenomenon. If science would study a supernatural phenomenon like this, then it should also study magic under a different branch.
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:27 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
I disagree that "Psionics" should be in science just because it's not actual magic. It's still very much a supernatural phenomenon. If science would study a supernatural phenomenon like this, then it should also study magic under a different branch.

Psionics is something that science has actually examined in this world. Magic is seen more as a spiritual or an intangible. A small team of scientists might be devoted to the study of magic but I think it requires a completely different way of thinking that they can't quite wrap their minds around. I believe the same goes for mages trying to look at the world through the eyes of a scientist.
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:29 am

And you say that the power to move a chair with your mind is actually tangible, unlike wagging your finger then shooting a fire ball?
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CauldronBorn24
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:30 am

From my experience; four years of studying chemistry at university, I find it difficult to say something is science while something is magic when it comes to Felarya. To most people science means either physics, chemistry or biology, but what about social science? Geography? Or even mathematics? They are sciences but vastly different than the classic three.

From wikipedia- Science wrote:
Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.

In a place like Felarya magic is going to be considered a science, probably more so than technology, afterall they have knowledge in magic. Rather than having a disticint division between fields of what we call science and what we call magic, why just just list them as fields of study or knowledge?
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:34 am

Or how about being more specific like dividing "magic and science" between "supernatural phenomenon" and "technology". Something like that.
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:51 am

Taking another stab at it... this is definitely going to take some time for me to work out. It will probably look different everytime you visit this page. Feel free to chip in better descriptions.


[The Study and Practice of the Sciences including Magic]

The study of Felarya, other worlds, and even theoretical worlds (i.e. Heaven and Hell) to further the advancement of knowledge, technology, magic, and society. This encompasses mineralogy, physics, chemistry, biology, and magic.
(A list of famous mages and scientists might be placed on this page as well as prestigious academies in Felarya, or in other worlds.)

Magic Disciplines (link) (formerly types of magic)

(Description copied from Wiki:) Efforts to characterize magic in Felarya are often difficult, due to the fact that many people from a variety of worlds have their own ways of drawing upon this force. What is certain, however, is that Felarya is extremely magic-rich, allowing powerful spells to be cast and summoned beings to remain indefinitely.

Psionics, Specific Magics, and Other (link)

(May change depending on feedback)

Felarya's Minerals (link)

(Description copied from Wiki:) Felarya possesses a wide variety of metals, stones, or gems found only there. The unstability of this world and the strange physical phenomena that occur there sometimes grant these materials very strange and unique properties.

Felarya's Physics (link)

(Description from Wiki:)

A Theory on Hell and Heaven (link)

(Description copied from Wiki:) A theory on the nature of Heaven and Hell by the archmage Talbeln Veridimus.


[Practical Uses]

Equipment, Tools, Weapons (link)

(I believe there should be an explanation of the affects that common guns and explosives have on giant predators)

Vehicles and Robots (link)

(I think the technology page might be a good place for vehicles and robots.)

Artifacts (link)

(Description copied from Wiki:) One of the main reasons why a steady flow of adventurers keep coming to Felarya is the richness, fabulous treasures, and powerful ancient artefacts that are scattered all over the world. Many of them came from previous unlucky adventurers though...

Constructs (link)

(Description copied from Wiki:) A construct is either a magically animated object or and artificially constructed creature. They are rare and very expensive, as the enchantments to animate them are generally very complex. They are used for dangerous, difficult tasks, or as guardians.

Dimensional Magic and Gates (link)

(Might not be a bad idea to place this here. The continued research on dimensional magic and dimensional gates has to many breakthroughs.)



In hindsight, I guess things might have been alright as they were. I'm no good at this as you can see. :-P

Karbo wrote:


-Planology ( studies of different planes and theories. the Hell and heaven entry could go there )


Would a link to the theories on Heaven and Hell make more sense on the Religions page?
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:50 am

We could have it at both ^^
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:18 am

Karbo, seeing some of the work being done to the Science and Magic page, I just wanted to know your thoughts on there being less division between science and magic.

I noticed that the physics page is under science but magic impacts Felarya's physics more than a little bit, so I'm thinking there should be a change to the wiki.

Also, since Felarya's minerals also have magical properties, it doesn't seem like they should be listed under either science or magic alone.

Just something for your consideration.

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PostSubject: Re: Reorganizing Science & Magic   Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:36 am

I'm working on that just now, trying to arrange things differently. And I definitely think the two should be a lot more intertwined.
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