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Grave
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:03 pm

When you say the prey is reduced....do you mean shrunk or digested?

Also if you mean shrunk, what would happen if they coughed up something the dream-ate...would it regain it's size after a while?
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:13 pm

I still have a question that i consider quite important about them but hasn't been really answered yet (and I hope it will be my last one for nemesises xD)

When we are talking about how "close" a nemesis is, how much is it aproximately?
Close can mean a lot of things depending of the settings, differents points of view, etc; and it's a fact quite important to take in mind if we asume that some people might want to try to defend themselves againt them by other ways than directly inside their dream (as it's soemthing really hard to do). It's defenitely not the same if a nemesis have to be 5 meter, 50 meters or500 meters from you to be really dangerous.
(for exemple, if one thinks he is being tracked by a nemesis, I can see him hiring some body guards to cover a determinated perimeter at night, protectiong a building, or something similar)
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:20 am

Grave wrote:
When you say the prey is reduced....do you mean shrunk or digested?

Also if you mean shrunk, what would happen if they coughed up something the dream-ate...would it regain it's size after a while?

I'm pretty sure it's meant in the sense of shrinking, and I'm also sure that the process can't be reversed, so whatever enters a Nemesis' belly, it won't leave that place no matter what.

Vaderaz wrote:
When we are talking about how "close" a nemesis is, how much is it aproximately?
Close can mean a lot of things depending of the settings, differents points of view, etc; and it's a fact quite important to take in mind if we asume that some people might want to try to defend themselves againt them by other ways than directly inside their dream (as it's soemthing really hard to do). It's defenitely not the same if a nemesis have to be 5 meter, 50 meters or500 meters from you to be really dangerous.
(for exemple, if one thinks he is being tracked by a nemesis, I can see him hiring some body guards to cover a determinated perimeter at night, protectiong a building, or something similar)

I don't know what the official answer will be, but for me, something more or less 15-20 meters away from you can be considered close in the human sense. Now, is it close enough for a Nemesis? I don't think so, maybe 5 or even 10 would be the right distance for the Nemesis to dream-eat her victim.

Though yes, some indications on how 'close' is enough for a Nemesis to dream-eat someone could come handy.
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Grave
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:45 am

What? Are you saying that nemesis cannot physically vomit? What if the nemesis was killed shortly after dream-eating someone? I am confused as to what you are saying....
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:01 am

You shouldn't take what I'm saying as official, first of all because I'm just a fan and I'm just giving my point of view. Official answers will come, but still, we can use this to discuss...

Now, I'm talking about the fact that a Nemesis won't vomit their prey, as you specified coughing up what they dream-ate. It doesn't mean they can't, just that they won't do so. But take in account that the actual process on how they dream-eat you isn't that clarified, you just have nightmares of the Nemesis eating you until they actually do. How they do it... no one knows. In fact, the wiki says so:

Quote :
Once she is close enough, the nemesis can "dream-eat" you. The process is an absolute mystery, but what is known for sure is that the sleeping body of the marked person disappears from their bed, and ends up in the nemesis's belly.

Nothing about how they actually do it. You could perfectly end in her belly without actually getting to her physical mouth, just the 'dream' one. And if Nemesises can eat many people (though just one at a time, not stuffing a lot in one dream), it's highly difficult they'd vomit them.

But if you'd like to go further in the question... let's do it!

Let's suppose a Nemesis would throw her victim up or if the Nemesis was killed and her belly ripped to save the people inside her - such a great feat, I'm sure they're good at running away if they're hired as assassins, as they'd sure know when to leave and not get caught. Now we have some scenarios, suppossing the victim is alive:

1. The victim is permanently shrunk.

2. The victim recovers his/her original size as the 'magic' from the Nemesis wears off.

Now which of these would actually happen? I'd go for number 2, if I was to choose. After all, the 'mark' and the nightmares are a way of dream-related magic, or that's what I think.

Anyway, I still think that whatever gets in her belly won't ever get out of there. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:24 am

What about conrol over the dreams? Is it only nightmares, or would they be able to, for example, send messages through the dreams as well?
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:34 am

I'm just trying to help flesh out the idea. You see a while back I wrote a small short story about a nemesis and well I had pretty much jack to go on, besides "they dream eat people". I think a lot of the races don't get very much attention because some of their information is either vague or not there at all.

Either way, this nemesis discussion seems to just go on and on.....maybe someone should do some voodoo magic and merge the related posts to another thread......some wierd moderator magic or something.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:03 am

well by Close I mean more say 30-50 meters
I think a nemesis could also deliver a message to a marked person ideed.

As for spitting a prey out, mhh that's a difficult one. I didn't really thought about it but on the go, I would say the prey would get back to normal once out. But I see a possible abuse here with a Nemesis marking a friend, having them go on an infiltration mission and then the nemesis dream-eating them to get them back XP
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PostSubject: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:07 am

Karbo wrote:
well by Close I mean more say 30-50 meters
I think a nemesis could also deliver a message to a marked person ideed.

As for spitting a prey out, mhh that's a difficult one. I didn't really thought about it but on the go, I would say the prey would get back to normal once out. But I see a possible abuse here with a Nemesis marking a friend, having them go on an infiltration mission and then the nemesis dream-eating them to get them back XP
Well that makes them quite interesting then and it shows a special bond between the two given that one is willing to put himself in one of the most dangerous places imaginable.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:17 am

Karbo wrote:
well by Close I mean more say 30-50 meters
I think a nemesis could also deliver a message to a marked person ideed.

As for spitting a prey out, mhh that's a difficult one. I didn't really thought about it but on the go, I would say the prey would get back to normal once out. But I see a possible abuse here with a Nemesis marking a friend, having them go on an infiltration mission and then the nemesis dream-eating them to get them back XP

I wouldn't consider that "an abuse" since the individual would have to fall asleep to be "extracted". I think it's a clever use of powers. I also think the individual would have to have REALLY strong faith in the nemesis friend.

This sounds like a stunt that special division of the isolon fist might pull off in a tight situation.....
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:25 am

30 to 50 meters, that's quite a range for being close... well, anyway, being them supposed to be hired as assassins, detection at that range would be difficult for normal human-sized individuals. Razz

About the other thing, I'm also afraid someone would abuse of that... but, on the other hand, I trust people in this community to use this wisely, but even when you think you're doing right, you might make a little mistake and everything will blow. It should be a very rare exception, I'd recommend...
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:43 am

"On Felarya all nemesises are females."


The wiki doesn't really explain further.

Do they reproduce? Are they like harpies? Do they share a dream with another nemesis or something to impregnate?
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:31 pm

I think it implies that the guys racked off to somewhere else; or none came to Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:07 pm

So the species on Felarya is dieing?
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:35 pm

Grave wrote:
So the species on Felarya is dieing?

Why would they be dying out? Stop thinking in terms of human reproductive cycles - it is a common misconception applied to fantasy that needs to stop. This is why we typically do not grasp the actual ideology of immortality - to a human, immortality is accomplished through children, rather than the self.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:24 am

Is it dying ? well there is no babies nemesises being conceived so in a sense, when one nemesis dies it's a big loss for the whole species. But they are pretty rare in Felarya anyway so if just several of them arrived in the world that would boost things back.


Last edited by Karbo on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:30 am

I take in account that Nemesises are an alien species and only the female ones have arrived... well, it's clear why they are rare. But think of it: would you like the world being populated with a significant number of Nemesises? Razz

Still, it's true that we should once in a while remember that no all fantasy species should reproduce like we humans do.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:42 am

Meh, I don't like the concept of this creature at all.

They can put a mark on you, then eat you at their leisure with a bunch of bullcrap thrown in to make it seem like they aren't way too overpowered. And basically, you can't do a thing about it.

I just don't like those kinds of predators.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:09 am

Yea, it's true that they are kinda hard to deal with, maybe there should be more limits to their powers;

I think the little problem here is the range necesary for the nemesis to be able to dream-eat.
Since they are human sized predators, I think that they should only have the advantage of the surprise effect. Once the human knows he is tracked, it should be a really hard task for the nemesis to get him (the human could eventually ask a friend or hire some people to protect him at night)
However, for that to work, the area of effect of the mark should be reduced; 50 meters seems a bit too exesive, considering that this skills practically shrinks and teleports another being to their stomachs. Hunting another human sized creature should have a certein level of risk, with is not present here.

My proposition would be to reduce it to more or less 10 meters. The skill is still useful, since it still allows them to stay out of a building or/and stay hidden, but becomes really risky if the human they track finds out and gets some protection.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:22 am

Just remember, a Nemesis won't actively hunt a human. The marking then waiting for it to go asleep seems to be too much for too little, when you could go catch normal food the old-fashioned way. This seems reserved only for special occasions, mostly assassination.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:36 am

It's not matter about using it often or not, it's matter about being able to do it.
In any ways, 50 meters seems far too easy considering how powerfull that skill is.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:40 pm

I don't think that distance is too powerful.....consider an archer or gunman could easily hit a target from such distances.....

If the nemesis has to be so close that they might as well have stabbed you.....I don't think the ability would be so frightening...

The target also has to be asleep.... a gun can kill you aleep or wake.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:10 pm

It's defenitely not the same to compare a nemesis to those weapons.
At least with a weapon, you have more chances to be able to defend yourself; with the nemesis, you can have all the armor you want, be enclosed in a building, be surounded by hundreds of people, everything, it doesnt matter, she can still get you as long as you are in range, and a range of 50 meters is a lot. Plus I will repeat, this skills practically shrinks and teleports another being to their stomachs, performing that kind of magic from such a distance is really ...hard.

I dont think reducing the range would influence their efficiency as assasins too much, they can still locate their target, and find their way to get close enough to dream eat them. But of course, if their objective is more or less aware about whats going on, I don't think it should be that easy; assasins normally shouldn't give a second chance to their victim, so i don't really see problem, but it's just that suposing the situation where the person involved knows he is being tracked, i don't want it to be a "I'm really dead whatever I do"," there is no way i can escape", etc...
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:19 pm

Well 50 meters is still pretty far away. Technically, you wouldn't need to be next to the person sleeping since you could just stand in front of his house and still be in range.
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PostSubject: Re: About Nemesises   Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:11 pm

Since it has to do with dreams, I think that the person's will should have something to do with it. Of course a psychic would be able to ward off Nemesis in his dreams, but I think that someone who wasn't a psychic, but still possessed a strong mind would be able to do the same, admittedly with much greater effort.
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