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 Symbolism of Nagas

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PostSubject: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 12:21 am

Rodenbach...Maeterlinck...Wilde...Those names ring some bells? No eh? Maybe Wilde...Yes, if you didn't know, Wilde had written a certain story about a certain Dorian Gray. Why am I naming these names now? Well, I'm just making an introduction paragraph to my new thread: Symbolism of Nagas. Rodenbach, Maeterlinck and Wilde all belongs to an artistic movement named Symbolism. Smile

Before going any further, I will base my analysis on 3 famous nagas we all know of: Crisis, Vivian and Anna. I'm also not taking the creator into account, altough he is invited to comment ;P

Now, according to a certain website that I won't mention, it is commonly "accepted" that nagas do have a symbolism in art. This symbolism consists in: "The naga primarily represents rebirth, death and mortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn"."

Rebirth, death and mortality. When you look at it, closely, with your spirit turned on, you jump on the conclusion that "Hey! It's a cycle!" Effectively, rebirth death and mortality is indeed a cycle. You born, mortal, then you die, because of that mortality but, because of an unknown power, you reborn, only to find that you are still mortal and that you will still die again. It's a vicious cycle. But in another way, it is an immortal cycle, maybe an eternal cycle. Think of the phoenix Razz

All this said, I just want to share with ya my analysis on felaryan nagas, to see if they respect this canonic symbolism.

First of all, rebirth. Has a naga been reborn here? Yes! Anna, of course. From human, she "died" but because of an unknown force, she came back to life, she reborn, and more surprisingly, as a new person. A whole new person. Does that mean that, next time Anna will die, she will come back as something else. Following my thinking, yes, she should, but following the way it seems to be, no, it won't. I also want to say that it says on the wiki that the guardian Notys MAY have been involved. As for Crisis and Vivian, I don't think there's much to say about them that comes out of the slot. (unsure of that expression...I hope you know what I mean)

Secondly, we have death. Both Vivian and Crisis represents this curious side, but in one particular way. I'll concentrate this paragraph mainly on Vivian, because her "death symbolism" is a bit more interesting than Crisis'. Death is incorporated in Crisis and Vivian because they represent death. They are what brings death in felarya. Even more, the death side we see in felarya is more than symbolic, it is inside them: their stomach. They eat humans and anything else edible (won't name them all) and consumes us. They kill us. Vivian, as for her, her death symbolism is stronger. She throw a magic spell on you, and you aren't affraid of death anymore when near her. Inconsciously, you are attracted by that being who is the represent of death, as if she was nothing else but life itself! Death is now disguised in a powerful attraction, a thrill we want to live. It's only when trapped that you realise that death tricked you.

Finally, mortality. Well, mortality is kinda really close to death. Both come together in a nice box. Crisis is the one who incorporates the most this "mortality". How? Well, when you see Crisis coming, even if felarya's soil is giving you immortality, you fear for your life as she can end yours in one gulp. And seriously, it's kinda that. There's nothing else I really can do. Haha!

Of course, it's an open thread. I invite ya to complete what I've said or make a critic and give me your own view on naga's symbolism. But please, stay into cannon. Don't go that deep into felarya, I want your thinking to be deep Razz

What is the purpose of this thread? Discuss the artistic aspects of felarya. This is only a beginning. Because it's not true that Felarya is only an entertainment. From any entertainments, something artistic can come out of it. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 9:27 am

So now we have a thread to post pictures of snakes?

Symbolism of Nagas Coluber_constrictor_priapus_Alachua_juv1ED
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 10:00 am

AisuKaiko wrote:
So now we have a thread to post pictures of snakes?

Yay!! ^^
Symbolism of Nagas Group

I.. I truly think that nagas don't have any special meaning as for now. Perhaps Karbo took the image of naga from some Eastern mythology...and changed it in the way he liked. But I dont think people tried to give it any special meaning here as for now. It was just a big creature, and, maybe, why I think nagas fit the role better than giantess - because they have some favour of foreign mythology, they fit the role of the huntress really better. Their snake features do. But I dont think people ever tried them to mean something like the thing you mentioned here....


Last edited by etaine on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 10:10 am

A thread for posting snake pictures.

Symbolism of Nagas Happysnake
Also etaine add this [/quote] at the end of that quote there to get it to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 11:00 am

Quote :
But I dont think people ever tried them to mean something like the thing you mentioned here....

I know that Razz What I'm trying to do is to GIVE them this particular meaning Razz Because, strangely, for the moment, it does work (at 77%, but still!)

AND I ARENT AFFRAID OF SNAKES!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 11:14 am

Didn't hear of Maeterlinck. Rodenbach and Wilde, however, I know them. Good going at linking the Symbolism with the topic's name. Razz

And even though you make a good analysis on relating these three Felaryan nagas with the naga symbolism in real life, it is also true that... oh well, I don't think the naga symbolism was taken in account when these characters were created.

About feeling artistic, I like the "art of creating characters". I like to give them live, to show they are more than just some words describing someone and some stats to measure some aspects of their lives. I don't give it a big thought about the symbolism I might express or hide in them more than creating and giving life to something that, for others, might just not be alive at all.

... Wait, this is the snake-photo posting thread, not the deep-thought-at-last one? Why? xDDDDDD
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 11:18 am

death?:
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 11:56 am

I'm too scared to look at your spoiler buddha...I fear whats in it :/

[quote=Feadrug]oh well, I don't think the naga symbolism was taken in account when these characters were created.[/quote]

yeah, I know of that Razz I just find it funny that it actually worked Razz

oh giving symbolism is just so cool! I never stop giving symbolism to my characters, but no one seems to notice it! >.< Although I admit it's a bit failed because, well, I'm not THAT good, but still, I think I can say I have some talent. You'll see next time, you'll shit bricks!
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 12:11 pm

Yup, can't deny it's very curious that even if Crisis, Anna and Vivian weren't created around the naga symbolism you described, they fit it.

Also, symbolism in character is a bit of hit or miss, sometimes it's better to just get your character right and then you can go for the symbolism through character evolution in your stories. Oh, well, I'm sure that's what you're currently doing...
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 12:57 pm

THANK YOU. Seriously, I just finished a paper proving the Biblical serpent's innocence, and one of the bases I used was the symbology of the serpent as an immortal being. Serpent symbology is one of my favorite topics in existence, so I am REALLY glad that someone brought it up.

The original poster of this thread is right on! Those particular names ring some bells, but I have seen those same observations made of snake lore around the world. The way you put it, the main nagas also form a trinity, a staple in mythology. Good catch! Very Happy

Here are a few other similarities that occurred to me after the first post:

~Even though snakes themselves are phallic, according to Mircea Eliade, who wrote a VERY good book on comparative religion, the snake is intimately associated with women. Supposedly, any woman who has, err, endured that time of the month has already mated with a snake. They are often thought of as producing children, and sometimes even creating humanity. (Specifically, in Chinese mythology, a naga - in the sense of a snake with humanoid features, yes - created humanity out of loneliness. Google "Nuwa" and you shall find.) They also have the whole 'mother Earth' idea going because they are considered autochthonic creatures. It totally makes sense that most of the nagas out there happen to be women. Wink

~Serpents are also usually heavily involved with magic. As creatures that are (usually) eternally ground-bound, snakes were thought to be more aware of the earth's secrets than humans. This made them gods of healing (again, possibly due to the one-piece shed that occurs in healthy snakes), magic, the undead, the language of animals, and, sometimes, of prophecy. (Worth noting: Karbo's gorgons have the prophetic aspect down, so it has not been forgotten.) The general idea seems to be that serpents are 'in' with nature while humans are distinctly 'out' of it. Not necessarily the case on Felarya, buuuut...

~On Felarya in particular, nagas might be seen as embodiments of literally all forces of nature, similar to how dragons have been taken in various ways over the ages (and I mean in mythological canons, not D&D). A naga can use any element, just like any element in nature can kill you if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Never mind that nagas can eat humans for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and light snacks. (I am reminded of the old adage, "do not meddle in the affairs of dragons nagas, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.") This leads to the classic "serpent as nemesis" theme, which can certainly end badly for the humans on Felarya. Laughing

Could go on and on about this. sweatdrop


Last edited by LamiaSybaris on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Bad strike mark, sorry.)
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 3:31 pm

Hm. I'm all for symbolism and such, and many people who have spoken with me extensively (and especially those who've done some traditional gaming with me) will know I incorporate symbolism into a lot of things. However, I doubt that much of this was intentional. While it's entirely possible Karbo meant for some symbolism in his characters, I feel that most of this has been added on by others after the fact. It fits surprisingly well, of course, and I'm not saying it doesn't work, but it seems to me that a lot of this symbolism only exists if you're looking for it in the first place.

My naysaying aside, this is a very interesting topic, and I'm impressed with the amount of thought Krisexy seems to have put into it. Felarya itself is a deathworld, and I think the existence of predators was more meant to give humans an opportunity to not be at the top of the food chain. If you ask me, predators represent a more specific death, one that's linked to the entire concept of vorarephilia: a primal fear of being prey. I understand the evolution is still a tricky topic, but even those who do not believe in it do agree that Earth was once much more dangerous for humanity, before we had all the weapons and civilization we do now. Felarya is an example of a very primordial concept locked in our brain, and that is the fight for survival against nature.

Nagas are a good example, being "the original pred" to many people, and still a very popular one (too popular, if you ask some people). This is something that is thinking, speaking, and yet by its very nature it is an enemy. Humanity now lacks such a black-and-white conflict on Earth. While preds are capable of reason, in most cases trying to reason with them is deadly. The only solution is fight or flight, and anyone familiar with psychology knows that term describes a reflex embedded into the most primal parts of our brain.

What I am trying to say, in my own roundabout way, is that all of Felarya represents death, but more accurately, it represents a conflict that is now absent from the majority of humanity. Something deep and primal within us, something we thought we conquered long ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeThu Oct 13, 2011 4:16 pm

Lamia wrote:
~Serpents are also usually heavily involved with magic. As creatures that are (usually) eternally ground-bound, snakes were thought to be more aware of the earth's secrets than humans. This made them gods of healing (again, possibly due to the one-piece shed that occurs in healthy snakes), magic, the undead, the language of animals, and, sometimes, of prophecy. (Worth noting: Karbo's gorgons have the prophetic aspect down, so it has not been forgotten.) The general idea seems to be that serpents are 'in' with nature while humans are distinctly 'out' of it. Not necessarily the case on Felarya, buuuut...

you seem to forget something that directly links them to their environment, to nature: their predator sense Razz

Now Cliff (if you happen to read this) take note I'm not saying everything in Felarya have a predatory sense ;P But, if I recall, nagas do have it Razz

And good call about that trinity Razz It reminds me that a link can be created between bible's snake, eve and our dear felarya nagas Razz

There's always a link somewhere!

Zion wrote:
...

I've stated this already a few comments before yours Razz : it's so evident Karbo didnt made it intentional Razz It's only a fun exercice of giving the symbolism ourselves. Maybe, inconsciously, Karbo did put this symbolism into his persos, I dunno, now I'm just being silly but whatever Razz There's so many things that can be dig out Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeFri Oct 14, 2011 11:00 am

All this deep thinking hurts my brain. ><
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeFri Oct 14, 2011 9:24 pm

ZionAtriedes wrote:


My naysaying aside, this is a very interesting topic, and I'm impressed with the amount of thought Krisexy seems to have put into it. Felarya itself is a deathworld, and I think the existence of predators was more meant to give humans an opportunity to not be at the top of the food chain. If you ask me, predators represent a more specific death, one that's linked to the entire concept of vorarephilia: a primal fear of being prey. I understand the evolution is still a tricky topic, but even those who do not believe in it do agree that Earth was once much more dangerous for humanity, before we had all the weapons and civilization we do now. Felarya is an example of a very primordial concept locked in our brain, and that is the fight for survival against nature.

...

What I am trying to say, in my own roundabout way, is that all of Felarya represents death, but more accurately, it represents a conflict that is now absent from the majority of humanity. Something deep and primal within us, something we thought we conquered long ago.

I know quoting for truth (by itself) probably isn't allowed here, but this deserves to be quoted, if only because I have LONG had the theory of "Indolence Syndrome." It's exactly as you say: There's a part of us humans that still has those primal instincts and yearns for a way to exercise them. We made a BIG mistake by eradicating all of our natural predators. Now the biggest threats are zombies and malaria-vampires. Our brains do not know what to do in a world that isn't "kill or be killed." I'd point to Idiocracy for the possible future of humanity, but how many people here have seen that?

(For the record, I may have read of a deathworld worse than Felarya - has anyone else here heard of Fragment? No matter how bad Felarya is, it DOES have some interesting species that will spare you, which at least makes it more realistic than Fragment.)

We also don't know how to react properly with other sentient species on this planet. Neanderthals died out a while ago, and we can only imagine that there was a bloodbath, possibly complete with war crimes. Imagine what we might do to nekos if they were brought to our world, let alone nagas. (I know, the Wiki DOES get into the implications a bit...but it reads as though the humans on Felarya at least tolerate nekos a good amount of the time. One must wonder how long it took them to get to that point.)

Krisexy26- Haha, true. You'd get a kick out of the stuff I found for my paper! Smile Freudian psychological symbolism also occurred to me today, if only because Vivian's on my mind. She is the natural enemy of those suffering sexual repression. :p

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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeFri Oct 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Quote :
Krisexy26- Haha, true. You'd get a kick out of the stuff I found for my paper! Freudian psychological symbolism also occurred to me today, if only because Vivian's on my mind. She is the natural enemy of those suffering sexual repression. :p

oooh dont bring it to psychanalysis it'll be too much fun! >.<
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeFri Oct 14, 2011 11:03 pm

LamiaSybaris wrote:
I'd point to Idiocracy for the possible future of humanity, but how many people here have seen that?
Ah, I have. I've a love for satire, you see, because it fits my sarcastic and arrogant personality so well. The beginning of the movie brought up a point that I try to warn people of, and yet somehow I am branded as a eugenicist.

LamiaSybaris wrote:
We also don't know how to react properly with other sentient species on this planet.
It's human nature to form a "them versus us" mentality. It's a part of being social creatures. Without some sense of group identity, Homo sapien doesn't truly have a sense of individual identity. Ever notice that the vast majority of highly-intelligent animals on this planet are social? Solitary predators can have a sort of cunning to them, but it's the group animals that exhibit behavior we'd consider indicative of possible sapience.

LamiaSybaris wrote:
You'd get a kick out of the stuff I found for my paper
Hm? What paper? I've done some studies into deviant sexuality due to my own fascination with the psychology involved, but I've never really organized anything beyond a few notes here and there. It's a field that hasn't really been touched by mainstream psychologists, and for that reason it's exciting to my hipster sensibilities.

In any case, we're getting quite off-topic with this, so no matter how intriguing this conversation may be, I believe it's best that I make an attempt to steer this back on the tracks.

There are, of course, the obvious parallels between naga symbols and snake symbols, but I fear we're falling into the trap of concentrating on the exotic and forgetting the domestic. It's generally understood, yet simultaneously overlooked, that the obvious human element of hybrid predators simultaneously makes them more and less sympathetic. I know, once again, I am stating the obvious... but I'm doing it in an eloquent manner, so everyone can think I'm smarter than I am.
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeSat Oct 15, 2011 3:00 pm

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Hm? What paper? I've done some studies into deviant sexuality due to my own fascination with the psychology involved, but I've never really organized anything beyond a few notes here and there. It's a field that hasn't really been touched by mainstream psychologists, and for that reason it's exciting to my hipster sensibilities.

In any case, we're getting quite off-topic with this, so no matter how intriguing this conversation may be, I believe it's best that I make an attempt to steer this back on the tracks.

There are, of course, the obvious parallels between naga symbols and snake symbols, but I fear we're falling into the trap of concentrating on the exotic and forgetting the domestic. It's generally understood, yet simultaneously overlooked, that the obvious human element of hybrid predators simultaneously makes them more and less sympathetic. I know, once again, I am stating the obvious... but I'm doing it in an eloquent manner, so everyone can think I'm smarter than I am.

It was about the Serpent in Eden. Smile Of course, what I found for it dipped into serpentine symbology. You're right, though: It's easy to focus on the exotic, especially for someone who looks at strange creatures on a regular basis. My bad for steering this ship off-topic. sweatdrop
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PostSubject: Re: Symbolism of Nagas   Symbolism of Nagas Icon_minitimeSat Oct 15, 2011 4:31 pm

Not to sink this forum, but I feel this is a "the curtains are blue, the curtains are frickin' blue" case.
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