Felerya Aviation Company

Alrighty then....Also the link for it on Deviant Art (It has a picture there incase it doesn't pop up here): http://noneofurbussiness.deviantart.com/#/d4c7t4g












Fel-Air aviation ad by ~noneofurbussiness




Digital Art / Drawings / Illustrations / Conceptual

©2011 ~noneofurbussiness



"Fel-Air, felaryan aviation! The best method of transportation acroos the dangerous skys of felarya! Why travel forever in a slow convoy across the jungle floor where everything can attack you? Or why would you rocket across the ground in a high speed vehicle just to get trapped or crash into something? Instead fly in the time saving speed and safety of the skys where little danger can reach or even catch you! Fly Fel-Air Aviation!

All our pilots and aircrews are well trained and experienced, who logged hundreds of hours in simulators and in real life! All our aircraft have been specialty modified with upgraded engines and lots of nasty "surprises" if they ever run into trouble. In addition we have a dedicated rapid response emergency resque teams! Always ready and on call if any aircraft goes down due to mechanical reasons or other problems.

Fel-Air's founder and aviation entusiast Felix Bell thought to himself; "There must be a better way?" And there was! He then formed the coloberation that was the birth of Fel-Air!

Our survival rate is double that of the Famed Felarya express and their fast hoverships! So stop on by and Look at our pilots and aircrews, book a flight with them using our custimized options. Pick your perfered price range, crew, time, distance, type and size of aircraft, and we will take care of the rest!

Just listen to our satisfied clients!"

-"If I need to get somewhere safely and quickly in felarya I rely on Fel-Air!"

-"It may be more expensive than riding a Noghdong giant tortuse, or driving a truck, but the results speak for themselves!"

-"Im always getting bugged down in the mud by foot, and getting blocked off by some giant log or root while in a tracked vehicle. But thanks to Fel-Air my packages and people always get to their destinations with little to no hassle!"

"Proof is in out stellar reputation to deliver! While your at one of our offices scedualing a flight, and you think you got what it takes, ask about our job offers! We could always use good mechanics, airport personel, pilots, and aircrew! Any previous knowledge or experience is perfered, but we will train you with the neccesary job skills.

Look us up and we'll see you in the skys! Fel-Air, No better way to travel!"

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I figured if its really dangerous to travel around on the surface of felarya either on land or sea, What would you do? You would fly! So Introducing my Idea of a Air company. This isn't a big airline company with jumbo jets or massive international airports, But more of a smaller more rugged outfit kinda like bush pilots (Like those in Alaska).

In my mind I envision it with smaller to meduim sized planes with not to many huge aircraft. For example there wouldn't be to many big jets line a modern airline would have (ex: Those massive Boeing and Airbus planes that carry like 200 people or more). But more so Rugged small air craft ranging to small four seaters to something similar to W-W-2 aircraft, to something bigger like the military's AC-130. Over all nothing too big and fancy, yes there will be something like small coperate jets that will be luxerious but nothing like Austin Powers own private jumbo jet all decked out. Get what I mean? And Itss not just all airplanes, there are a few helicopters and stuff like that in there too.

There is a big main airport right next to Negav with a control tower and everything. It is withing the Isolon Eyes range and located between Negav and the smaller city Nekomera nearby, that way It can maximize its amount of potential costumers and clients. This being Felarya and all, it is militarized and able to defend itself effectively. The airport has its own walls, defenses, guards, fighters, and such. It is not uncommon for their guards, pilots, aircrews, etc. to be concidered soldiers of fortune. Several of them are mercenaries of some sort, and the peremiter defense does have its share of Isolon Fist members in its ranks. Fel-Air's typical work is transporting people and material around, but can do and will do much more than that. They have been hired to provide air support, do suppy drops and pickups for many adventurers and military forces, Including the Isolon Fist in defending the area from threats.

Outside the major airport right next to the city, there really is no other big airport. This is where the flyers would resort to old school operations. They would land in a cleared feild, open area, or if they are lucky a grass airstrip. The only thing dicctating the airstrip would be if someone (typically the villagers) deemed it benificial to have that created since they have aircraft frequent the village often, If the pilots are really really lucky the airstrip would be paved. The main airport would usually be the only paved place to land so the aircraft will have to have beefed up landing gear. And depending if its a boat plane a re-enforced hull when landing in the water with their landing gear retracted. And if its a cold environment full of ice and snow, there would be skis for landing gear since wheels have difficulty rolling in deeep snow well.

Some of you will be saying "But what about supplies and control towers and mechanics and spare parts?" Well all thaat is taken care of. The control tower is only neccacary if there is alot of traffic, so the only place that would need that would be the airport at Negev. Everywhere else you would just radio any possible nearby aircraft then make your landing/take off while staying alert and being visual of the area.
Any supplies at the main airport can easily be gotten from the nearby city and its factories or from offworld through the use of the city's portal, just drive in the fuel trucks and all that other stuff, no hassle at all. However when outside the city the pilots and aircrew would always bring whatever they needed with them, tools, smaller spare parts, extra fuel, ammo, whatever is needed. If something were to happen and they needed something they didn't have then and there they could call for it to be delivered to them from the main airport, some one else would quickly fly it out to them.
While at the main airport there are dedicated mangers for matenance and repairs, while in out flying the flight engineer and crew would take care of any issue that might arise. Some aircraft (if there are big enough) even have the ability to have the engines worked on in flight through the uses of crawlspaces in the wings.

If it was deemed to hard or dangerous to repair the aircraft in the field, then a heavy lift helicopter could come in and pick up the aircrafty and bring everyone back to the city. Or they could simply abandone the aircraft in the jungle and cring back everone else and then replace the machine later when they get back at the airport with a new plane.

"But what about noise alerting any predators?"_ Yes they can be very noisy. If an aircraft is flying fast you won't hear any or much noise untill the aircraft is just about ontop of you.Ontop of that if they are flying high, and if a giant harpy is on the ground, they would have to exert themselves to reach that altitude, and then catch them when they are tired. Think of it like running uphill, its very similar.
Also alot of arecraft fly high enough that the oxygen thins in the air and you need to suppy your own onboard. So if a harpy or any other animal were to be that high up, they would find it very difficult to catch their breath while flapping their wings or whatever they are doing to be up there. And if they kept going up even higher they would eventually pass out from lack of oxygen and fall back down to earth. Also at that high The air start to get cold and with the windchill produced at those speeds would make the harpy a little chilly. Meanwhile the Perople inside are warm either through clothing since the aircraft walls and windows will be blocking out the windchill (or atleasst most of it depending on the type of aircraft) they would be fine. In addition to cabin heaters that you would find in todayss aircraft, In W-W-2 the aircrews had little electric warmers inside their jackets that they could plug in and help keep them toasty.

"Yeah! But what about Giant harpy attacks, since its out of reach for everyhting else?" _Well First they have too see them with thier camaflauge painted on the planes. I know alot of birds have good eyesight (but some are also colorblind I think). BUT more importantly you have to ask: HOW would the harpy get at the people inside? You can't really pluck the people out of a flying aircraft with out deystroying it and thus killing them too, before you eat them that is. If it smashes into the ground at three hundred miles per hour, not much will be reconizable afterwards. Also Harpys (expecially without hands) will have to watchout for the rotor blades. propeller blades, jet exhast or intake, depending on what the aircraft is. Touching those will clearly hurt the the harpy. And I highly doubt they will know much about till its too late.

mwahaha "nasty surprises", all of the aircraft are personally modified by the aircrew/mechanic/owner themselves. The engines are zupped up to be able to outrun or match just about anything else out there. The pilots are all trained (any many experienced) in not only defensive flying but agressive dogfighting.

For a little trick, if the predator(s) are close they can release small cluster bomblets attacted to little parachutes. That way the bombs don't fall, but instead fly right into the face of whoever/whatever is chaseing them. That will hurt them badly, and if itss inciderary type of explosive.....Lets just ask this: How hard is it for a bird to fly when their feather have ben burned clean off the wings or tail? The answer is they fall like a rock and splat into the ground.

Then there is always the trusty machine guns. They may be giant but each bullets gonna be like being stabbed with a thumbtack. And just one machine gun, depending on the model, can fire anywhere from 450 to 1,200 rounds per minute. So thats an Ouch right there, given most aircraft guns are aircooled by the emmense amount of cold wind flying produces, thus they don't have to worry about overheating like a stationary gun would have to and could shoot at a much higher rate of fire.

All in all, I think most Harpies would just leave these things alone, But there are plenty who will try.

Overall the pilots would just try to avoid danger zones and fly around them to maximize survivability. Hover if there was trouble they could handle it, expecally if they call upone the emergency rapid resque (typically if they are crashing) who would rush out with pleanty of firepower.It is essentially their own airforce. Jet fighters and the like would rush out there to secure the area around the (downed) aircraft and blow awat anytrouble. While something like a V-22 Osprey would fly in to the grond with medics and soldiers to help those on the ground (if they did crash that is) and bring them back while fighter bombers and perhaps even a spooky (Plane that circles the area providing very accurate arial artillery) provide cover.

All in all, I think that covers it! I based all of this on actual real life stuff, so if you want you can always look it all up.

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OKAY! This was my Idea that I have not seen anyone else do! Yes there is feleryan express, but their not the aviation type of aircraft, there fast hovercraft transports. Not really one in the same! So to me, I felt that in a dangerous world there has to be more flying from piont to point, but no one that I've seen has apparently done an actual aviation company! So I am here to fill the gap and create more competition in the market of traveling felarya. Woo! I hope you like the advertizing!

This was my first digitally produced and colored airt work using MyPaint program. All with a mouse, I do not have a tablet because im cheap! DEFINANTLY a learnign experience, for example Im not sure how to make things look chromed or a shinny silver (like the sunglass's frame). I would have had this out this morning but I had to recolor the guys skin....he looked deathly pale when I looked at it a second time LOL. Can't have a ill pilot while flying!

I have a story floating around in my head sooooo....sometime in the future you'll get that, but I don't know when it will be out. However feel free to contact me about using this idea in any of your stories, I would like to know where this will go xD

Do you like what I did with the company name? Haha works great with the founders name and flying in this world, or at least I think so. The planes you see drawn are real planes FYI, and everything was referenced using airplane magazines, however the headset I actually referenced the real ones my dad has.

As always, enjoy and comments/tips/advise/such are appreciated! Download for a larger view to see the details of the different brushes.

Felarya is Karbo's
The NoghDong giant turtles mentioned are not mine, I have no Idea who's it is. Again Im not sure who own's Felaryan Express either.
Averything else is mine.

Jetbikes would like a word with you.

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The NoghDong giant turtles mentioned are not mine, I have no Idea who's it is. Again Im not sure who own's Felaryan Express either.

Take the effort and look. It's in the wiki on the same page as the ideas themselves.

AH! Ok Felaryan Express is Indeed FrenchSnack's. I was unsure if it was his or not. The NoghDong giant turtles I think are Karbo's, since I didn't see anyone specifically credited for it at the bottom of the page. ( http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fauna see what I mean? )

And Jetbikes huh? (....oh... Thats YOUR idea hmmm...) I heard of them before, but they are not a aircraft in the sense of a helicoptor, or plane. So its not the same thing, it kinda sounds similar to a speeder bike from star wars (or perhapss an autogyro). However it is still in competition of the market for different modes of travel in Felarya.

Yours may be in the wiki, But I think my Fel-Air will be a much more cheaper and practical option since jetbikes are accordingly very expensive. Airplanes and helicopters are also expensive, but in terms to jetbikes much cheaper and simplier in design. There are many middle class pilots who can buy, own and operate a small aircraft....if it wasn't for the liability of having the manufacturer getting sued HUGE money, then the simple non-fancy aircraft would be just as expensive as a average car. And that my friend is a true fact. Just over all more economic to the average adventures. Also before I go any further, Bravo on the jetbike idea, its very creative. I love the imagination and thought you that you put in it. Makes me wish I thought of it, because it sounds fun to ride/drive, whatever you do to pilot that machine (sounds silimar to a motorcyle so I am going to say "ride").

You may have me on versatility with the compact size and the ability to land and take off anywhere, But that also provides a weakness in that It cand carry alot of people or heavy supplies of cargo, supplies, and possible treasure like a meduim sized aircraft could. Also Im pretty sure your scalar visual distortion field magic that makes them hard to see at a distance would be alot of magic spell technology for a effect simple camoflage paint could achive. Also your single AID grenade seems pretty awesome, but you only get one and my weaponry for my aircraft are numerous and much more simple and thus cheaper than the AIDs you have. However it seems that your AIDs are more effective than a simple explosion would be. But with that in mid any plane or jetbike can be modified however the pilot perfers to be more benifical to the situation before the sortie (AKA: "mission"). For example the aircraft are big enough, Im sure some of the crews added on some sort of sound dampening device to silence the engines roar or to help cloak the vehicle once landed so (giant) preditors have trouble finding it before they can finish their job and take off again.

What is the service ceailing that the jetbikes can opperate at? Because I am curious of that since both my idea and your jetbikes can travel at very fast speeds (again depending on exactly what the vehicles are, some simply go faster than ohers).

I do have to say it seems both your idea and my idea require skillfull pilots. I would not be suprised to see some of them pilot both the planes and jetbike different days of the week. Who says you can't work more than one job? Perhaps even have a hanger rented out at the airbase at Negav to house some of the jetbikes.

Anyway what do you think of my Fel-Air anyways? ^^' I would really like to flesh out my ideas well and perhaps even make it into the wiki itself. According to Karbo I'm the first aviation-airline company that he can think of, so Im kinda excited about that. Hopefully I can go somewhere good with this, be a good contributer to this group and all.

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But no one that I've seen has apparently done an actual aviation company!

Jetbike Pilot Guild. Not a company, but a commercial aviation organisation definetly.

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But I think my Fel-Air will be a much more cheaper and practical option since jetbikes are accordingly very expensive. Airplanes and helicopters are also expensive, but in terms to jetbikes much cheaper and simplier in design

...a fully staffed airport, and machines with lots of oil, fuel and moving parts are simpler and cheaper than a small, magi-tech vehicle that doesn't require a landing strip and doesn't require specialised machines to service?
I highly doubt it.

Aeroplanes take specialised fuel, something that is not made in Felarya. Jetbikes can (and do) run off a number of things that are available in Felarya. Importing fuel would make flight prices skyrocket.

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There are many middle class pilots who can buy, own and operate a small aircraft....if it wasn't for the liability of having the manufacturer getting sued HUGE money, then the simple non-fancy aircraft would be just as expensive as a average car. ] And that my friend is a true fact. Just over all more economic to the average adventures.

I want to see sources. I'm skeptical of it.

Anyway, most jetbike pilots are middle class citizens. I'm still not seeing how traditional aircraft are cheaper, especially considering that you can land a jetbike on a roof, so space doesn't have to be rented out.
For larger jetbikes, the Jetbike Pilot Guild provides hangar space, which basically amounts to a building with a sliding door roof, for a small price.

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Also before I go any further, Bravo on the jetbike idea, its very creative. I love the imagination and thought you that you put in it. Makes me wish I thought of it, because it sounds fun to ride/drive, whatever you do to pilot that machine (sounds silimar to a motorcyle so I am going to say "ride").

Thanks.
Ride is correct. Jetbikes are jet aircraft that are controlled like bikes.

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You may have me on versatility with the compact size and the ability to land and take off anywhere, But that also provides a weakness in that It cand carry alot of people or heavy supplies of cargo, supplies, and possible treasure like a meduim sized aircraft could

Jetbikes are a large class of aerial vehicle. There are some big enough to act as troop transports. They aren't all one or two person craft.

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Anyway what do you think of my Fel-Air anyways?

To be honest, I think its way too complex and way too inefficient to be realistic. Aircraft, especially big aircraft require fuel, oil, spare parts and a great many other things that can only be imported from offworld.
You would also need airfields, which are big construction projects and will require maintenance to keep in a shape the aircraft can actually utilize. Airfields are hard to defend. You can't put walls around them.
Basically, the only aircraft that would even be viable would be propeller aircraft. Jets would require too much fuel and too long of landing strips to be anywhere near useful.
Harpies are estimated to have a cruising speed of between 300 and 400 miles per hour. In a dive, there ain't a propeller driven aircraft around that could out-run one. With jetbikes, you can at least duck under the trees to get out of danger or use the superior manuverability that thrust vectoring provides to outmaneuver the harpy and escape.
With a traditional aircraft, you are basically alone and exposed in the middle of the sky.
The guns are a terrible idea. A harpy might just be curious at first, but if you open fire on them, they will probably try to bring the threat down, and given their size and speed, it'd only take one good hit. Hell, all they'd need to do is shear off part of the tail with a talon and it'd be over.
It's not easy to hit an aerial target from another aerial vehicle. In WWII, there were bombers like the B-17 and even later in Vietnam the B-57 that had multiple machinegun turrets on them for defense. But it didn't really do much because they barely ever hit anything. The bombers barely hit anything and were easily taken down by the Luftwaffe when they didn't have a fighter escort.
Oh also, ammo isn't free. Anti Air weaponry chews through a lot of ammo because the weapons have to expend so much to have a chance of hitting the target, if they even do hit. The costs would be high.

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What is the service ceiling that the jetbikes can opperate at? Because I am curious of that since both my idea and your jetbikes can travel at very fast speeds (again depending on exactly what the vehicles are, some simply go faster than ohers).

Unknown really. It's hard to determine that as the atmosphere density is variable at any given height in Felarya. It's easily as high.
Consider though, that jetbikes are jet propelled; they can reach supersonic speeds. From what you've drawn, I don't think that the aircraft that "Fel-Air" uses would be capable of this.

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speeder bike from star wars (or perhapss an autogyro). However it is still in competition of the market for different modes of travel in Felarya.

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speeder bike from star wars

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speeder bike

How about no:

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Aeroplanes take specialised fuel, something that is not made in Felarya. Jetbikes can (and do) run off a number of things that are available in Felarya. Importing fuel would make flight prices skyrocket.

Just going to nip this in the bud real fast like since I noticed it, but airplanes do not require such fuels. USN aircraft use the same fuel we put into our diesel generators. USAF aircraft use enriched fuels to make them better performers, that's all. It's kind of like do you buy 87, 89, or 93 octane? Most can be used in any type of car, the difference is price vs performance and needs vs desires.

Ah, I was under the impression that aviation fuel was called aviation fuel because it was especially for aircraft.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Ah, I was under the impression that aviation fuel was called aviation fuel because it was especially for aircraft.

More likely so they can charge more for it. The refinement processes for high grade fuel is going to be more expensive, but you don't require those fuels in order to fly. Additionally, lighter aircraft and personal aircraft don't necessarily use special fuels at all - depends on the make/model and what the plane is meant for.

noneofurbussiness wrote:

Anyway what do you think of my Fel-Air anyways? ^^' I would really like to flesh out my ideas well and perhaps even make it into the wiki itself. According to Karbo I'm the first aviation-airline company that he can think of, so Im kinda excited about that.

Erm I'm sorry, when I commented on your deviation on DA I was more thinking the idea was a funny one, making a parody of an Air line for Felarya ( with the slogans and commercial hooking sentences ) but I didn't think you really actually wanted to develop an airline for Felarya

Honestly I don't think it's doable. Like others pointed there is an awful lot of problems that would come with it, from maintenance to logistic, and very large surfaces to serve as airfield... I don't think its something manageable in a world like Felarya...
I'm very sorry if my comment was subject to mis-interpretation T_T

Aethernavale you are right, there really isn't a whole lot difference between normal fuel and aviation fuel. And thank you for pointing that out for me.

Now for ther jetbikes, according to the wiki, it gives the impresssion that they are small vehicles only able to carry a few with their side/back cars. It never mentioned them being big in there at all, infact it said they were small vehicles. And it being jet or even rocket propelled doesn't mean it can go super sonic at all. Yet it has the potential mussle to go past mach one, but there is more to it than that; will the airodynamics of the airframe allow it? Will there be aircompression building up on the fligh control surfaces as it gains speed, thus making it loose control and crash? etc. etc. If your jetbikes are to fly supersonic they would probably have to look something like a fighter jet of some sort, like a pointy F-18. For a quick exampple the A-10 warthog (AKA: thunnderbolt II) is a subsonic jet, meanwhile the F4 Phantom II used in Vietnam can easily make make it past the blistering speed of mach two with the after burners fired up.

I would like to know where it says the average speed of a Giant harpy is? Becuase naturally with that wingspand they could produce alot of thrust, but it would also creat alot of drag due to their size. I addition their human halfs arn't really airodynimic themselves so that will easily create a lot of wind resistance too. If you think of birds in real life, the small ones can outfly the big ones depending on the species, its not dependant on size. With harpies being organtic, they would get tired out from prolonged high speeds, however motorized aircraft will not get tired.

Speed wise, lets use some propeller driven examples. Most of these are very old airframes from world war two, and with better modern engines that are more powerful, more lightweight, and more reliable I am positive you can go faster than what they could do unmodified. The F4U corsair could go 446 mph http://www.aviation-history.com/vought/f4u.html The Spitfire MarkV could go 374 mph while the MarkIV model could go 422 mph. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_top_speed_of_a_spitfire The F6F hellcat could go 371 mph. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f6f/f6f.html The P-51 mustang could go 443 mph at the end of the war. http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/p51.html The classic P-40 warhawk that was designed before the war, could go 370 mph at the end. http://www.aviation-history.com/curtiss/p40.html. While the bigger B-25 could go 315 mph. http://historylink101.com/ww2-planes/aa-b-25.htm And the even bigger Avro Lancaster could go 280 mph http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/worldwariiaircraft/p/World-War-Ii-Avro-Lancaster.htm with the just as big B-17G could go 302 mph. http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_B-17G.html. And the more modern aircraft used my the military for troop and cargo transport today is the C-130 which was designed in the 1950s! The C-130J model can go 417 mph http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/c130.shtml And thaat is a large aircraft.

So even these older design properller driven aircraft of all sorts of sizes can still go quite fast even with out the modification that Fel-Air would do. And just simply deystroying the aircraft in flight would just defeat the purpose of trying to eat the occupants inside. So thats a lose-lose situation there, even if it was more out of anger than hunger. But if its hard to catch up to the plane and when you get close you get hurt by it, the smarter thing tould be to stay away and thus avioding more pain. Depending on the ruggedness of the plane, they could comback beat to hell with their crew intact, just to never fly again and be used for spare parts. In W-W-2 there are photos of B-17s with huge parts of them blown off by direct hits from flack, but they still came back. I've seen some with the nose missing compleately, part of the fusagauge peeled right off, even almost all of their tail section missing. Of course all these cases, they were lucky to make it back alive, but they still flew home is my point.

Now with machine guns there will most likely be more than one shooting, many bomber turrents have them set up in pairs, and depending on what angle they are attacking, there can easily be more than one gunner firing at the target. And food for thought the .50 cal machine gun has an effective rang up to and including to one mile, But if you angle the gun up so the bullets arcs and fall on their target, it can be farther than that. Also skilled pilots and gunner have been training on leading the target so it may be difficult to hit a target in flight, they can do it with ease. For example in W-W-2 fighter pilots could fly down and aim and shoot a rabit on the ground and kill it. (I believe I read that in the book Stuka Pilot, true story and its a good ass book of the war on the Russian front). If it just so happens to be a more powerfull 20mm cannon the range it even greater and with more distructive force, although uncommon they did exhist on several planes. For examples the P-39 hade one in the fighters nose, and the B-29 had one in the tail gunner.

Now for simplicity and cost, look at the piper cub airplane for a perfect example. It has a small motor, cant really hold alot of people, all controls are manual and non-hydrolic, and the aircraft is literally a frame of aluminum bars with fabric wrapped around it. The aircraft is super simple, cheap and easy to build, but it is still expensive as hell for what it is. Because of needing the insurance incase of things going badly they charge way more than an average car. Its similar to medical malpractice fees doctors have to worry about. And according to my father who is a middle class pilot, small aircraft manufacturers actually stopped building small planes all together due to liabilities at one point. Who in there right mind would buy a piper cub when at just a little more you could get a nice beechcraft? I think he said the halt was in the 80s, untill there was a cap put on how much the manufactures could get sued, then they started to build small planes again (still at a high price).

And the parts to fix, supply, maintain, operational aircraft and the main airprt really insn't as unfeasable as you may think. As long as its flat (perferably paved, and clear the aircraft could still take off and land there. And not all need a large strip. For example look at the V-22 Osprey with its tilt rotor system and the Harier jet, they can do it all vertically just like a helicopter but at much higher speeds. For the airport itself, how does the airforce or comerical companies do it on a daily basis? They face the same basic needs as felarya and they work fine, and they all do have walls around them in the form of tall barbwire fencing at the appropiate distance from the ends of the runways (altho Felarya would require something stronger than that....but they are within the eyes range, and within the Isolon Fists operating area in addition to their own perimeter guard partols and their very own airsupprt). In fact there is a big airport in Brazil I think and that runway is right on the shore of the ocean, they screw up and go to far they crash in the water. So thats sorta like a natural barrier to replace the wall. http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-photo/ianvdk/caribbean_2005/1112050020/015.jpg/tpod.html And on that note where do your Jetbikes take off and land from? Within the city? But wait the city has these tall walls you were worried about flying over. as for mechanic skills It seems your get bikes are more mechanically complicated than my aircraft. Machanic wise, if you understand motors and engines, there isn't a whole lot difference betwwen aviation and other motors. My grandfather was a crew cheif in the Pacific theater and was in charge of fixing up P-38s and anything else that needed work, arming, and re-fueling. So he was able to work on several different types of aircraft not really mattering what kind of type of aircraft it was. All during W-W-2 in the junglees where everything from milaria to the enemy was trying to kill you (not to mention the enemy constantly trying to starve their opponent of materials). And agin I would like to mention that most if not all the airport materials and personell would be supplied by the city its build right next to. There has to be a industrial district of the city producing the machines, engines, metals, vehicles, textiles, and overall products that the population comsumes.

With the bombers being chewed up by fighters, thats true, but the Luftwaffe still did sustain their own casualties. But lets keep in mind the Me-109s they were 1) armored, and took several well placed hits to take one down 2) had cannons as an armorment in addition to machine guns, 3) are WAY smaller of a target to hit than a harpy, hell a giants face alone is bigger than a Me-109! which a smart gunner would be shooting for their large eyes to blind them quickly and make them go away. Harpies cant really sheild their eyes with their wings while in flight. Again the planes themselves would be flying pretty high anyways to stay out of reach of any harpy who isn't already high up (because of the whole climbing altitude gets them tired thing and then the plane can get away).

Yes ammo does get expensive quickly, but its not that expensive. And as with your jet bikes, depending with the size of the aircraft compaired to the giant trees, you could dive down to the deck and try to loose them there. But doing tht would make you loose your "out of reach" safety in many cases. And when it comes to out menuvering a harpy, yes and thrust vector aircraft will have an advantage, but it all depends on how good the pilot is at dogfighting with his vehicle. They could easily cause a harpy to overshoot and open them up to be shot up by some sort of effective weapon. Also who says there is no escort? Remember they could call in for help and a super sonic jet could rocket in with their deadly missles locked on (which are expensive).

Be mindful that in the Ccold War their was the developement of tracking systems for gunner platforms either to shoot down the aircraft from the ground or withing the aircraft to shoot with others itself. For example the F-86 Sabre had radar control in their guns so that they would barely miss, and that technology was also implemented in the gun turrents off bombers. Altho missels were becoming the primary way to shoot bombers down, so they slowly stopped putting defensive turrents on bombers since it was useless weight at that point. And the B-57 you mentioned I don't think had any defensive turrents on it, Perhaps you ment the B-52? Because at one point I think it had a cannon on its tail, to thrawt any enemy fighters on its six-o-clock.

Now, I do know that there will be its limits of areas to land given alot of felarya is jungle. So Helicopters would be more versitile while planes would have to operate in an area that had more patchy areas that they coulld land/take off in safely without hitting a tree. However helicopters can but do lack the speed that planes and jets have, thus making an archilies heal right there. Perhaps a comon way to deliver people and supplies would be through parachutes if they cannot land? And you don't have to land and take off on land, they could be flying boat planes and just drive up on shore and hide when they arent flying, but again that leave them voulnerable to any attacks there.

I should point out that my origional advertising was for entertainment fun. And Im glade everyone enjoyed that part. In a sense it really was a parady of an airline. Yes the large airports due take up alot of space since they handle LOTS of aircraft, but Negav is huge and I think it would easliy fit nicely beside the city. Im not expecting it to be handleing hundreds of flights a day like a major international airport would easily do. While the other areas that handle very little air traffice really dont need to take up anywhere near as much space for aircraft. I think it would work even though there are some faults to it, since its not perfect. I thank you guys for your concerns about feasability and pointing out any dificulties to the idea. But I think it would add some good variety to the world, and create some good stories of adventure and peril. But why complain though? Wasn't Felarya founded on vore (its an unavoidable subject matter)? People are always finding their way into these vore situations right? This is just an alternative way to try and aviod this through weapons, speed, and altitude while traveling from point 'A' to 'B', given its from a city to wilderness or to some other urbanized center equiped with an area for them to fly in and out of. Is it really that unreasonable to think that powerful defenses could hold back potential predator attacks on any airstrip? If something can destroy a main battle tank and its armor with ease, why wouldn't it be able to deter a giant predator? Expecially when there are several of them?


As you can probably tell Im an aviation afficianato so I typically know my stuff. And I hope this helps with your concerns and that everything I wrote here is clear enough to understand while reading.

Anime-Junkie, for you wanting solid proof that a middle class person can own and operate their own plane. I took a photo of a good example page for the used classified from "Trade-A-Plane". You will have to zoom in to read it, but its clear enough for you to easily make out the words. I have circled a few examples, but inbetween the circled ones are several more cheap examples too. I know that anyone may say: "Wait a minute, all of these are like thrity years old!" But that is actually the average age of alot of the small airplanes you would see flying around. If you wanted something from the past decade, the price of the aircraft would sky rocket upwards.

(Now lets hope I posted this image here correctly)

Okay, Image didn't work, so here it is on DA: http://noneofurbussiness.deviantart.com/art/page-from-quot-Trade-A-Plane-quot-263934159 You will have to download it in order to read it with clarity or else the words will be very tiny.

You misunderstood me. I have no doubt a middle class person can own and operate a small plane. I AM however sceptical about this:

Quote :

...if it wasn't for the liability of having the manufacturer getting sued HUGE money, then the simple non-fancy aircraft would be just as expensive as a average car. ] And that my friend is a true fact. Just over all more economic to the average adventures.

I'm just going to add this here: what is there to gain from building an airport in Felarya? Controlling the air, at least in Felarya, nets you nothing, as quite a lot of dangerous predators, notably Harpies and the rarer Sphinxes, can fly, and others, such as fairies, can use magic to shoot something down. While it is true that modern day planes can reach high altitudes, remember that Felarya is far more immense than Earth, and such altitudes can easily be reached by flying giants such as harpies. So the most obvious utility of an airport, which is transportation, doesn't work in a world like Felarya.

Naval control is equally dangerous, but unlike aerial control, there is a possible gain: fishes. One can fish in the dangerous sea, which can be a viable business. Yes, it is risky, but it's a risk with potential rewards at the end. An airport would cost millions and only leave you with occupied space.

Oh, Im sorry Anime-Junkie, I did miss understand. I was mistaken at the time, it was occuring in the 80s and peaked in the early 90s, then in 1994 it was passed. http://blogs.kansas.com/aviation/2009/11/27/aviation-industry-veteran-ed-stimpson-dies/ and http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-20448657.html and http://avstop.com/history/needregulations/act1994.htm I believe should help.

Please keep in mind what I said about the simplicity of the smaller ho-hum airplanes (like the piper cub I mentioned earlier), the engines on these planes are only like 60-80 horsepower to achieve ample amounts of lift needed for flight, and planes have less components than an average car requires to be built. Think of how complicated the stearing and drivetrain are in a car, then the planes contol surfaces can be operated by something as simple as cables and pullies. Its just simply the fact that planes fly, make them more dangerous....but I ask: "What is the comparison between car crashes and airplanes crashes in a year/month/week/day? Around the world/country? How many serius injures or fatalities involved in between their respective crashes?" I know there is a difference between the number of people who drive cars and those who fly, so we shall keep it to percentages. And the General Aviation does have its share of young and old pilots (just like driving), that is where the majoraty of people get involved in flying is through General Aviation and their small planes. General Aviation is kinda the life blood to flying since it gets interest with new young pilots learning how to, and thus replaces the older ones who stop because of old age.

I just relized that you had a drawing done Anime-Junkie. Sorry I missed that origonally. But I must say if that is a Jetbike, as I assume that it would be, then the name is a little bit missleading. I clearly see the massive get engines, but It looks nothing like a bike. And you mentioned before that you "ride" it not "drive" it so that would mean there would be a saddle like seat, similar to a motorcycle or something like that, inside the cockpit. That sounds to be a very interesting set up for the pilot. Im just used to average seats while flying, so I am agian going to have to give you creativity points on that. What I envisioned was a metalic motorcyle like thing, with a oversized sidecar build in on the back half of the frame behind the pilot, perhaps enclosed by canopy or just open with a windshield, and on the sides jet engines that could pivot in diferent directions. But apparently its this sleak star fighter looking thing that vaguely looks like it was inspired my Nintendo's Star Fox Ar-wing.

Now back to the main thread here. I know that Felarya is different when it comes to physics due to the magical properties (physically anything several times bigger than a blue whale would have trouble supporting its body's weight, pumping its blood, and sending signals throughout its brain and nerves.) But accepting the fact they do exhist, I feel that the harpies souldn't be able to fly faster than 300-400mph without pushing themselves as if they were in a sprint or at least close to it. They may produce huge amounts of thrust with their wings, but the drag created my their awkward bodies would limit them. Plus it makes for a lousy story if there is no competition betweeen the harpy and prey. Oh and I still haven't seen where the average max speed they could fly at (there is no way they could breack the sound barriar with those airodynamics so don't even try to tell me that, it would simply be unfair at that point). On that note if a harpy really does fly at 400mph, scoping up someone to eat alive, wouldn't work out so well since the impact of the mouth or tallons would kill the "prey" instantly. The only way for them not to kill their prey would be not to scoop them up while flying like that, they would have to scoop them up at way under 100 mph.

For landing in small spaces, you could always add on airbrakes to extend out right before touching down. The combination of the brakes on the landing gear and the air brakes would let the aircraft slow down dramaticly only needing a very short runway to land in. And to take off agian, lets look at the Doolittle Raid in World War Two as an example. A meduim sized army bomber which required a "long" runway was modified so it was lightweight, but still carrying thousands of pounds of bombs, took off of a "short" aircraft carrier deck. And the aircraft cariers back then are yes big, but not nearly as big as Americas "Super Carriers" today. And the first few bombers that took off only had 2/3rd of the deck to do so since the rest was taken up by the other army bombers because they were too large to fit below deck with the ship's elevators (like the navy planes were designed to do). Because of that limited flight deck space the Doolittle Raiders were trained to take off in 467 feet, thats a VERY short distance for a larger aircraft carrying a heavy bomb load!

Now I know felerya is mostly jungle, but the artwork I have seen done consist of alot of patchy open spots breaking up the jungle. I mean how else would a giant move around a jungle if all of it wasn't appropriately sized for them? If everything was like a real life jungle and it was hard enough for the humans to walk around in because of the thick vegitation; how would the giantess ever hope to first find, and second reach through and get someone to vore on? They wouldn't because anyone smart enough wouldn't leave the tangle of trees and expose themselves if they had the choice. So there has to be patchy sports scattered throughout the forest that would be suitable to land temporarily in.

Would you all be happier with the idea if the main aircaft being operated were something like the V-22 Osprey except the tilt-rotor turbo props are replaced by jet thrusters ( like the UNSC vehicles in the videogame Halo)? That way it would resolve any potential speed issues and landing/takeoff space issues? Perhaps swap out the engines with a variable thruster (similar to what the F-22 or harriar fighter jets have)?

And the airport has never really been for air superiority, yes you want to control SOME of the air, but not all of it. That would just be too difficult. The whole thing was for transportation of supplies and adventurers. In just about every story they are trying to travel through felarya to get to a portal, treasure, ruins, or village, but they have the hardest time trying to do so safely (and get eaten half the time). If you were out in the jungle wouldn't you like to think that someone could fly in and help you? Perhaps open up trade lines between places that otherwise would be too dangerous to do?

And yes there is more potential resourses gained from martime avctivities (fishing in addition to travel and trade once again), But its more dangerous. In the air the worst thing to face is a harpy. In the ocean you got Mermaids and everyother large monster lurking down there. Also with airplanes you can only get attacked from the air, untill you land that is. However ships get attacked from the sea and the air (and land when they are at the shore). Navel ships do not control all of the waters, just a small part of them, same with the airplanes. When It comes to military aspects, if you have air suppremicy, it it not to control the air persay, but to control the land under it. Now you can move with in the area with relitive ease and little threat, no matter what mode of transportation. With air supremecy you don't have to worry much about your planes, vehicles, troops, or ships being attacked by enemy airstrikes; you can essentally opperate your military with freedom from having them getting cut off. If you are struggling for that air supremecy, have lost it, or never had it, you are severly limited by how you can operate due to the threat the enemy can now pose on your forces. In Felerya the "enemy threat" is any large creature preying on you. Why do you think any nose art on attack helicopters of jets is of a shark mouth or some other set of fangs? Its to show that they are the hunter and you are the prey (unless they are on your side).

Besides with the imediate area around Negav where the airport would be located, there is already control over the area by the Isolon Eye and the defensive turrets and such along the city walls. So its not like there would be a big struggle with predators at the airport, it would be when they would go to venture outwards from it. If anything it would expand the area of control just by a little bit around Negav, which Im sure the inhabitants would enjoy. Who would want to be so close to something that could not only send just a few fast fighters to attack them, but alot of them in addition to the slower fighters since they are within time range. Any a threat at that close proximity would bring a much faster response than a call for help that was much farther away.

According to my economic geography proffessor, the cost of transportation is lowest in ships and railways, then trucks, and the highest cost is by air. A grad student wrote a paper on having a delevery company based soley of air transportation, betting that people would spend the extra money to save drastic amounts of time in the shipping of said products. He got a dismal C for a grade on that paper, since it was deemed too expensive for people to want and thus unpractical of a business model. The student went on to start up his business plan anyways. We now know that Company as "FedEx", a world leader in transporting goods. Now lets throw not only saving time in that equasion, but the fact that people rather not die. I think there will be a demand for that in Felerya, where just about everything is trying to kill you.

With the Sphinxes, they are rarer than the harpies and not all of them have wings. Sphinxes are even more ungainly than the harpies, so I would suspect the harpies to be able to fly faster than the Sphinxes. And yeah there are fairies, but I would assume them to find it unpleassent to be flying as such a height with lower temperatures and higher winds, expecially since alot of non-humans in felarya just go around naked. Remeber at you increase in altitude, the temperature drops, and often the winds are strong since there is no mountains to buffer them like if you were down lower.

Altitude height is really determinded by the air density layers in the atmosphere. So if the Felaryan Atmosphere is three times thicker than earths, then so will its layers. Thus the aircraft would be able to fly three times higher in comparison, to match that difference between the two.

Being how this is felarya and alot of things use magic, you have to ask what kind of magic is being used? Whats its range? Can you cast out a sparkling glowing spell that shoots out strait for half mile? Or do you have to touch whatever your performing the magic on? I would assume that it wouldn't be any worse than being shot at by a Flack gun from a distance. Yes its very dangerous, but again using war references, it won't really stop you unless there is a compleately overwhelming amount of them or it gets a really lucky hit. I would believe fairies to be about the same speed as the harpes, since fairies have their wings strapped onto their bodies, while harpies are ment to fly with their wings integrated into them.

If fairies change size, they would be as big as the giant harpies, who we were already talking about before. For me the theory of fairy speeds in flight wouldn't vary much, if at all, when they change sizes. Since as before stated the whole ressistance of the wind, but much more importantly is how their size magic works. It is all relative to the fairy themselves within their surroundings, when fairies change size with something in their stomach, that changes with them. So they do not become full or get hungry again because of the shrinking or growing size, according to the wiki. Plus if the fairy tried to shrink to a small size to aviod being a huge target (I mean really, who misses when the target is a hundred feet big. Thats like misssing the broadside of a barn.), that would make them very voulnerable to any normal weapons that the aircraft/aircrew may possess.

Lastly alot are saying a aiport wouldn't be feasible. Fel-Air is again not envisioned as a huge international airport, but more like a much smaller local comercial airport. Still lots of activity, but not a crazy amount air traffic. "You would need special equipment to service these aircraft", but unless its a super advanced jet like the F-35 or super big like the Boeing 777 or 747, then its nothing really more than what you may find in a car repair shop. And there are still clearly trucks and other even large vehicles in Felarya, or more high tech vehicles. But nobody seems to have issues with mechanic shops for them being feasible. "Too many people would be needed to run it", but not really when compaired to other elements already in Felarya. The Isolon Fist is essentially a small army, they would have more people than Fel-Air I would think. Don't forget all the support that goes into operating a army of any size. The trainers, armory, the people making the weapons, the mechanics and technisions for their equipment, and so on. Remember for everyone who is actually a combate participaint, there is another person behind the scene supporting them through logistical work who doesn't actively fight. And nobody seems to give that much thought. Same with any mineing operation, that takes alot of personell, but it is still feasible in Felarya. Or for operating any large ships and marinas for them to dock at or be dry docked for matenance, but again there are ships in Felarya if I'm not mistaken.

Oh boy, this Fel-Air concept has really blown up bigger than I origonally thought it would. However I am willing to hammer out any issues with it, even if it is a baptism through fire here. Haha I do hope this is comming out as a easily understandable logical arguement, rather than a unstructured rant.

Well I see you've done your research, noneofur... what an unwieldy name. I'll call you Fur. You're willing to hammer out the issues? That's great. Let's start by the basics then.

I take it from what I see that you're studying something quite seriously outside the forum, because you're putting in a lot of information and naming sources. Heh, I'm an engineering student and I don't do that even when handing in! But the thing is, less is more; you're rambling on a little too much -we get it, you like airplanes- and it gets a bit padded. It'd also help if you showed exactly what is relevant to what. Use a quote break function next time- you can use as many

wrote:

as you want to head responses to particular points.

Now let's get down to business, because I like this idea.

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I've been talking with the boys in Ventrilo yesterday. They've conceded that planes have a much greater reach than jetbikes (after all, they're more massive and much more effiicent with fuel), but they've voiced a number of concerns.

To get over the need for agility, it's best not to be spotted- I take it you could have the planes fly either at night, subsonic speeds to avoid sonic boom, or in cloudy days- always above the clouds so the harpies can't find you. Maybe in Felarya the clouds can eat you too; I say it's about time we found out already!

Now, they're also concerned about landing. Takeoff can be simple: we only need one runway and I'm kinda sure if everything else fails, it's going to be faster to ask for forgiveness than permission, repeatedly, after using a clear area that everyone else wanted to use for a street. Opens up a lot of fun possibilities, doesn't it? But landing anywhere else is going to be, short of VTOL, a challenge.

I've seen you pointed out it takes 467 feet to take off- for a B-25 Mitchell. I don't know about how long it will take to climb up up and away from the canopy afterwards, which is going to be the important part. I'll keep using the data for a B-25 J as wikipedia goes, it's never led me astray. There it reads the climb will be 790 feet a minute- and cruise speed 370 km/h. That means it will require, to climb 241 metres, 6,25 km additionally to those 467 feet. I know we said there'd be clear patches, but that you got there looks like a serious problem. Maybe it's enough to climb 40 metres before you get some serious maneuvering room- that's still a whole kilometer. A patch that size, you'll want some confirmation it's safe before going anywhere near it.

This wouldn't be an issue EVERYWHERE- we've got the Great Rocky Fields and maybe a few high, level surfaces where you can take off running off a cliff so you get on the air right off the bat, but that limits its possibilities. Otherwise, in the jungle you'd be best served using planes mainly for supply drops- you can do those with parachutes without the need to park your plane. Paradropping people would be best done from a low altitude- otherwise you'll just give every harpy within eyeshot (and depending on time and visibility it could be a lot of them) a chance at the guys. And even then, it's pretty dangerous, as getting them to land close to each other is nearly impracticable, and having them scattered is too much of a risk.

All of those are things jetbikes are good at- they sacrifice a lot of reach, but they can land anywhere and they're maneuverable. If you want this to go through you'll have to play up your advantages compared to jetbikes. Including the ability of airplanes to drop off jetbikes to improve their reach.

======

Anyway, Fur, you'll want to redo the idea entirely. Much as you like planes of all sorts, it's trendy here to be stingy about military grade material- specially missiles and other things that can kill/cripple predators, specially harpies, they're already being shown too little love. Try with round a baker's dozen small planes, and maybe one or two Red Baron level guys/gals who own custom jobs and can give a harpy a run for her money?

You might also want to restrict the range of this service to only places where you're 100% certain you'll be able to land. Coasts, plains, stuff like that, doing only supply drops anywhere else. Also, restrict it to low maintenance models. You can play up the fuel efficiency aspect- and the sheer cool factor. I mean, who here hasn't watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? Everything is better with airplanes.

You've got all the leeway you want here- so don't restrict yourself to Earth planes. Try to devise your own- which a little bird kind of tells me here that he thinks you already have! Finally, be more concise about your points in general, and try to make things a bit tidier to read. Pays off a lot.

Wha! NO! CRAP!!!! I had this whole thing typed out and nice and oderly, and I hit "backspace" and my laptop went all retarded and shot me back a few pages!!! I lost everything!!!!! AHHH!! All that typing work lost!!!

Well.....shit.....

....lets try this again, but this time Im never going to write online again. I'll do it with a word document to aviod repeats.

Haha I do admit my name could have used more thought. It is very unweildy, but it makes for funny short nicknames like "None" and "Fur".

Im really not In the mood to re-type all of that in one sitting....again....So I'll do a little shorter stuff here, and post the rest later since its late. (waisting all that time)

Unfortunatly everything I typed was the most important parts that you guys were concerned about, like the landing and taking off, etc etc. So for this quick one I'll just quicky go over the less important things here and the others tomarrow or something.

Quote :

I've been talking with the boys in Ventrilo yesterday

Im glad this is getting some attention by the comunity, I knew some people would find this concept enjoyable.

Quote :

it's trendy here to be stingy about military grade material- specially missiles and other things that can kill/cripple predators, specially harpies, they're already being shown too little love.

Unfortunately for the harpies (yes they don't get much love Haha) The armorment supplied by Fel-Air for the majority of the aircraft is very basic little bombs and bullets. Nothing high tech like homing missles or anything like that that cost thousands of dollars each. Besides these weapons wont really kill a harpy or such, its just too small and they are too big, unless they get shot up real bad. And on a place like Felarya, Im sure there has to plenty of factories pumping out ammunition for widespread weapons (like guns and their bullets), those are the real business geniusess here (...hmmm maybe Felix Bell should buy stock in those companies). And in some place as dangerous as the wild west there has to be less red tape regulation to get your hands on some simple armorment.

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Try with round a baker's dozen small planes, and maybe one or two Red Baron level guys/gals who own custom jobs and can give a harpy a run for her money?

Thats basicly the idea. Fel-Air would only have two dozen or so planes, that are yes armed with lots of nasty suprizes and modified by the crews so that they can fend for themselves and atleast have a chance. But they aren't really heavily armed or the serious threat to the predator. Its the rapid resonse resque aircraft they will have to worry about once they are called in for help. They would race in a high speeds, and they are the ones with the super aircraft and expensive powerful weapons. These guys are the one that could blow a fatal punch with their missles and such, they are dedicated interceptors and skilled fighter pilots. They would keep whatever busy, going toe-to-claw and driving off the threat while the slower other aircraft can arive and help out the situation, if its more fighters or to assist the other aircraft.

For example the response aircraft would be armed to the teeth with expensive potient weapons as a standard layout, while the bakers dozen aircraft, may have added on in addition cheaper weapons. Remember its your life in that thing, whats preventing you for adding a few hundred (or grand) dollars worth on something extra? They would have lets say something more affordable, one of the strongest things they may add onto their plane would be rocket racks (and they would only be on a very few planes, not carrying to many). These most likely wouldn't be anything guided "smart" ones or anything fancy, to give you an idea of how cheap some of these non-high tech "dumb" rockets. Look at the RPG-7. That weapon is widespread across the world, and pretty cheap bare bones stuff, however it still has alot of punching power. http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/military_photos_2004614.aspx Now these are the newer more advanced ones that are more expensive, but it gives you an idea. But again they would be probably be on just a very few planes, probably in the smaller more nimble fighter like aircraft whose "teeth" are infront of them verses all arounf them like a bomber like airplane who would have a gun turret or two.

And with that said, the aicraft won't be looking for trouble, they would avoid any spots with lots of dangerous activity. For example the great tree, lots of big predators and giant harpies there. Every flight is planed out appropriately.

Quote :

You might also want to restrict the range of this service to only places where you're 100% certain you'll be able to land

When planning for the trips they would be useing pre-existing maps and arial photagraphy of Felarya. That way they know where there are good spots to land in forest clearing, where are bad places, where there is high concentrations of dangerous animal dens, where the ground is too rocky, etc. That way they know whats the best thing to do for what and where. Naturally the open rolling planes of felarya there will be little restrictions, while the enclosed forest would have more restrictions to operate in.

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All of those are things jetbikes are good at- they sacrifice a lot of reach, but they can land anywhere and they're maneuverable. If you want this to go through you'll have to play up your advantages compared to jetbikes. Including the ability of airplanes to drop off jetbikes to improve their reach.

For that it would have to be a large aircraft to drop off jetbikes, since they are bigger than I origonally thought they were. Perhaps it would be more often for the medium aircraft to drop off smaller vehilces, like silenced dirtbikes or something like that. But Im sure someone will want a super expensive jetbike delivered way out into Felerya for some reason or another.

Okay, thats all I feel like re-typing. I'll do the more important other stuff later. Also first time I correctly did a 'Quote' thing was in this post, its very usefull. I should probably come out with something saying exactly how Fel-Air would handle itself, like a list of regulations and standard protical, perhaps through some re-inventing as suggested.

Quote :

And on a place like Felarya, Im sure there has to plenty of factories pumping out ammunition for widespread weapons (like guns and their bullets), those are the real business geniusess here

That's actually completely wrong.

There is no large-scale industry within known Felarya.

There are only TWO known cities in Felarya, Negav and Chiotia. The former imports its gear from offworld or reverse-engineers its own. Negav's military-grade weapons ARE limited to its military. Just about every Negavian is armed in some way, but only the Isolon Fist, the Investigators and the Vishmitals have any kind of militay-grade weapons. For Chiotia, there's really no reason for those kinds of weapons. Im sure there are guns here and there (although much less common than in Negav)... but something to fight a pred is just unnecissary. They are totally surrounded by preds and only survive because of their diplomacy. Attacking a pred is about the last thing Chiotia City would want to do.

The short and simple of it is, there's no money to be made through large-scale industry in Felarya. Well over 90% of the humans and human-sized demi-humans who live there don't even use money of any sort. They live in small, hidden village or nomadic groups. Interaction with any other people outside of their own is rare at best. They have no need for hard currency, and in some cases, no concept of it.

Building any kind of factories IN Felarya would be pointless. The only civilization worth selling to would be Negav, and its got a dimensional gate right outside the walls.

Not to mention there aren't very many wide spread civilizations that have ever existed in Felarya to the point where you could have factories being worthwhile. I mean the Elven Empire probably had factories of SOME kind, not sure about the Dridders though. However, that's a topic for another thread.

noneofurbussiness wrote:

Unfortunately for the harpies (yes they don't get much love Haha) The armorment supplied by Fel-Air for the majority of the aircraft is very basic little bombs and bullets. Nothing high tech like homing missles or anything like that that cost thousands of dollars each. Besides these weapons wont really kill a harpy or such, its just too small and they are too big, unless they get shot up real bad. And on a place like Felarya, Im sure there has to plenty of factories pumping out ammunition for widespread weapons (like guns and their bullets), those are the real business geniusess here (...hmmm maybe Felix Bell should buy stock in those companies). And in some place as dangerous as the wild west there has to be less red tape regulation to get your hands on some simple armorment.

Oh, well, about that. I think the guns and the bombs won't be a problem for most people. You should also take into account that weapons are mostly imported, as Cliff mentioned, and regulated in some cases.

noneofurbussiness wrote:

Thats basicly the idea. Fel-Air would only have two dozen or so planes, that are yes armed with lots of nasty suprizes and modified by the crews so that they can fend for themselves and atleast have a chance. But they aren't really heavily armed or the serious threat to the predator. Its the rapid resonse resque aircraft they will have to worry about once they are called in for help. They would race in a high speeds, and they are the ones with the super aircraft and expensive powerful weapons. These guys are the one that could blow a fatal punch with their missles and such, they are dedicated interceptors and skilled fighter pilots. They would keep whatever busy, going toe-to-claw and driving off the threat while the slower other aircraft can arive and help out the situation, if its more fighters or to assist the other aircraft.

Well, about rapid response aircraft... if we're talking about an aircraft 3 times faster than the main aircraft, it'll take them 1 hour if the other guy took 3 hours. You'd do better with escort planes than with rescue/intervention aircraft.

noneofurbussiness wrote:

For example the response aircraft would be armed to the teeth with expensive potient weapons as a standard layout, while the bakers dozen aircraft, may have added on in addition cheaper weapons. Remember its your life in that thing, whats preventing you for adding a few hundred (or grand) dollars worth on something extra? They would have lets say something more affordable, one of the strongest things they may add onto their plane would be rocket racks (and they would only be on a very few planes, not carrying to many). These most likely wouldn't be anything guided "smart" ones or anything fancy, to give you an idea of how cheap some of these non-high tech "dumb" rockets. Look at the RPG-7. That weapon is widespread across the world, and pretty cheap bare bones stuff, however it still has alot of punching power. http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/military_photos_2004614.aspx Now these are the newer more advanced ones that are more expensive, but it gives you an idea. But again they would be probably be on just a very few planes, probably in the smaller more nimble fighter like aircraft whose "teeth" are infront of them verses all arounf them like a bomber like airplane who would have a gun turret or two.

I never said you couldn't spend more money or get whatever kind of gun you wanted. Reign in that enthusiasm, sir!

noneofurbussiness wrote:

And with that said, the aicraft won't be looking for trouble, they would avoid any spots with lots of dangerous activity. For example the great tree, lots of big predators and giant harpies there. Every flight is planed out appropriately.
When planning for the trips they would be useing pre-existing maps and arial photagraphy of Felarya. That way they know where there are good spots to land in forest clearing, where are bad places, where there is high concentrations of dangerous animal dens, where the ground is too rocky, etc. That way they know whats the best thing to do for what and where. Naturally the open rolling planes of felarya there will be little restrictions, while the enclosed forest would have more restrictions to operate in.

Alright, that'd be a point in your favor. Taking terrain into account, I mean. We don't see much of that.

noneofurbussiness wrote:

For that it would have to be a large aircraft to drop off jetbikes, since they are bigger than I origonally thought they were. Perhaps it would be more often for the medium aircraft to drop off smaller vehilces, like silenced dirtbikes or something like that. But Im sure someone will want a super expensice jetbike delivered way out into Felerya for some reason or another.

Well, in that case, nevermind.

noneofurbussiness wrote:

Okay, thats all I feel like re-typing. I'll do the more important other stuff later. Also first time I correctly did a 'Quote' thing was in this post, its very usefull. I should probably come out with something saying exactly how Fel-Air would handle itself, like a list of regulations and standard protical, perhaps through some re-inventing as suggested.

Be sure you reinvent. Might save all of us some time. Remember to be more concise here!

Al-righty then, here is the second half of the things I didn't get to before as well as a few other things too.

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To get over the need for agility, it's best not to be spotted- I take it you could have the planes fly either at night, subsonic speeds to avoid sonic boom, or in cloudy days- always above the clouds so the harpies can't find you.

Yes harpies will have the natural ability to be agile while flying, but that doesn't mean a pilot couldn't make an attacking harpy overshoot the plane and then open up the harpy to being shot up. The pilots are not full blown Ace material in the average planes, but they know about dog fighting tactics and are fully competent. Its risky business flying in Felarya so all that training is a beneficial necessity.

Super sonic speeds means that you’re pretty much uncatchable and quiet but, that would mean burning through fuel rather quickly when compared to any subsonic aircraft. The sonic booms you get for breaking the sound barrier only happen when you are passing the speed of sound, not when you re-enter sub sonic speeds, in fact it’s very quiet. When you are past the speed of sound, you are outrunning it and it is trying to keep up...and failing at it. So in essence you are completely silent, and by the time anyone would hear the engine noise from the jet, it would be drastically lagging behind and the aircraft long gone at that point.

And before we move past supersonic flight and I forget about it:

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Well, about rapid response aircraft... if we're talking about an aircraft 3 times faster than the main aircraft, it'll take them 1 hour if the other guy took 3 hours. You'd do better with escort planes than with rescue/intervention aircraft.

With me and all my aviation knowledge, how in the world did I overlook that fact! That was a fail on my part, but easily remidied. Once the aircraft is out past a certain point they would have to go in groups of two (or even three, depending on how far out) for mutual safety and support, as to buy time for the response team to arive it they're needed. So I suppose that would require Fel-Air to have some slower partol/escort fighters like P-38 or something in addition to the faster response fighters.

But I agree; the best defense is to simply not be seen at all. I like the idea of flying when it is dark or in low light condition, so you can hide in the shadows so to speak. But Felarya is a dangerous place and I’m sure there are inherent risks flying at any time of the day or night. At night I would expect there to be less dangers in the sky, but I'm pretty sure there would become more dangers on the ground due to the nocturnal predators (of coarse that does depend on exactly where you are on Felarya). I think I would want to leave this part open to interpretation to what would be the safest time to fly for the given circumstances, that way it would give anybody perhaps more flexibility when writing a story if they so choose to.

Now flying in the clouds is a great if not risky tactic to not be seen, because it cuts down you visibility and could possibly collide with something/someone. Obviously radar and other instruments would be a huge advantage in that situation so that you are aware of your surroundings. Another tactic to not be seen is to fly high above the clouds "in the sun". That is a dog fighting tactic in which you position yourself between the sun and your enemy. That way when they look up to try to see you; they can't because you are blinded out by the bright sun. Another tactic, but more risky one, is to fly "among the deck" which means you rocket across the ground real low. However that does get rid of the relative safety that altitude gives you. That way your camouflage helps you blend in with the tree tops below you (given that you have the proper camouflage), and you are nothing but a blur until you've passed any threats. I would expect this last tactic to be not used often at all unless there were no clouds to fly above or in then. Another thing that might be note worthy is; birds don’t fly when their feathers are all wet. If its raining planes can still fly, however birds do their best not to, so if they are landing somewhere big and open and it wouldn't matter if it was wet, or if it was an airdrop. I would assume that that would be a safer time to fly in felarya than usual.

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Now, they're also concerned about landing.

The landing IS the MOST dangerous part of any flight, because it is attempting to make a controlled contact with the ground. If it’s not controlled enough it can result in a crash landing or something perhaps more destructive and deadly. The military does something they call "hot" landing (I think that’s what it is called) in which they fly in fast, doing some evasive flying (which also bleeds off airspeed) when on approach and drastically reduce their speed only when about to touch down. It’s used in Iraq/Afghanistan by cargo planes and such to avoid any potential small arms fire and rockets someone might have nearby. And they essentially do the same thing but in reverse when taking off.

For Fel-Air I would expect them to do basically the same. Lower gear, throttle down, adjust pitch, lower flaps, open airbrakes, then once touched down slam on the landing gear brakes, and then (maybe) open a small tail parachute to slow it down like the space shuttle does when landing (which would be releasable if they ever had an emergency and needed to lake off again, they could flip a switch and leave it behind). All this would drastically cut down on the length of the area needed to land.

For taking off; you would throttle up nice and high with the landing gear brakes locked. Once you have a lot of power built up, release the brakes and race forwards to quickly get into the air. In addition to that I was thinking of having some sort of small repulsers on the bottom or sides of the fuselage, that way they could take off quicker and thus need a smaller space to get airborne. They would not be trying to make the plane hover like a helicopter, they would be more at a 45 degree angle helping push the aircraft up and away to gain lift at that critical time, and I was thinking they would run off the same fuel as the engines.

Now you guys voiced a concern with climbing out of an area, specifically if it’s a clearing within a forest. Yes the area will have to be large enough for you to be able to avoid the trees and such, no matter what size they are. Of course before hand, the spots would be pre-determined if it was safe enough and able to be land/take off in given whatever vehicle they are using. Using maps, previous aerial scans, and knowledge of the area. If you can do one, you generally should be able to do the other. If the surrounding area of the clearing is giant trees, this presents an interesting scenario. The plane would either find somewhere else, or have to weave in and out of the tree trunks before getting above the canopy. (Which could make for some good story material!) If the spaces are large enough for a giant to walk through, I would assume it would be ample space for a plane to go through too. BUT first you have to get up to speed With the throttle at full and the little rupulser lift things when taking off, you could get to speed pretty quickly at a very low altitude, once that is done you will have the ability climb a little higher and maneuver (safely enough) even if you are at a low level.

However doing that, would require that the area would allow that, from how sparsely the giant trees are situated from one another. And naturally a smaller plane would have an advantage over a larger plane for that. Now I know flying in between giant trees isn't a perfect idea, not by far, but it’s an available option. But that would be only in certain areas of felarya. As stated before: "This wouldn't be an issue EVERYWHERE", just in some spots.

**********************

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That's actually completely wrong.

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Building any kind of factories IN Felarya would be pointless. The only civilization worth selling to would be Negav, and its got a dimensional gate right outside the walls.

Now on to some of my own questions! I was under the impression that it was way too expensive to have stuff imported into the city through the dimensional gate, to the point it would be unreasonable to have a business get its supplies from it. Now that I am looking for who told me that, I cannot find it. But here you guys are saying that there is no Industrial center/district with in the city. So clearly that logic was completely incorrect. It has to be one or the other.

So any cars, lights, tools, steel, engines, meat, would have to brought into the city by use of the portal. Any business owner being an auto shop to a restaurant wouldn’t be able to stay open if their mass produced supplies from off world was super expensive, leading me to think the portal would be really cheap and reasonable. Am I correct in my thought that that was what you guys were implying saying that there are no factories in Felarya?

According to the wiki; apparently the city of Negav and the late Ur-sagol success was because of the dimensional gate they were built at. Also I thought I read somewhere that the dimensional gate was “public” which would make me think it was free to use.

I did some searching on the wiki to find out more how Negav (and other cities in general) operate in terms of economy and consumption of the city’s populace. I know there is mining nearby which is very profitable, and that a very large number of people support themselves off of the explorers/adventurers through selling them services and goods. But for a big city like negav, which I would envision to be like the cities of New York, or Tokyo, or Moscow, there HAS to be more to support the population.

If importing products into the city is indeed cheap, and the major way that shops and the like would get their stock. Why wouldn’t there be a good flow of weapons and simple bullets, in addition to the more average items for everyday life? Economies of scale dictate that there would be plenty of manufactures that would be able to produce products for Negav to consume by the usage of the dimensional gate.

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Negav's military-grade weapons ARE limited to its military

I would expect you to mean that Automatic weapons, heavy weaponry, bazookas, and such like that would be limited to only the military. But what about the small individual mercenaries? They are commonly hired by people leaving the city to go into the jungle, right? Almost all of them I would expect to have grenades and automatic rifles or submachine guns. I’m sure that they wouldn’t go out there with a tiny .22! Where would they get their ammo and weapons (provided they are using a gun and not a magic sword or something…although that would make them more of a mage of some sort)?

When looking on the wiki, I couldn’t find anything on how the society runs with respect to the jobs/economy, dimensional gate imports/exports, consumption of food supplies (Clearly you can’t have huge ranches or farms on Felarya providing tons of food to feed the city) and where that comes from.

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Well over 90% of the humans and human-sized demi-humans who live there don't even use money of any sort. They live in small, hidden village or nomadic groups. Interaction with any other people outside of their own is rare at best. They have no need for hard currency, and in some cases, no concept of it.

I do realize that the majority of people living on Felarya are in hidden small villages, which can support themselves from local hunting and gathering etc. And that these little villages would have no real use for a monetary sytem and would mostly rely on bartering. But I’m talking about a huge city, that won’t work with that many people concentrated within the walls of Negav. For a city requires more vast quantities of food, and for big businesses they would want something easly transferable between other businesses or to off worlds. Now thats not to say thaat Bartering wouldn't exist, just it wouldn't be as prominent within the city. (Don't forget about all those Felaryan treasure hunters, they are seaking gold and other riches, which is reconized as a form of currency and wealth)

So please can you guys clarify these issues for me? Because unless I know how this works, I’m going to have trouble envisioning the re-invention of Fel-Air. Or I will just assume wrong, and then do a bad job at re-inventing how Fel-Air works as a Business. Thanks.

Also as a side note:
If you are "reverse engineering" something, that is usually so you can understand how that item works, then MASS PRODUCTION of that reverse-engineered item (typically with your own twist thrown into it). So reverse engineering implies that a factory, or several would be pumping that item out afterwards.

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Attacking a pred is about the last thing Chiotia City would want to do.

Agreed, gotta have good diplomacy.

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You should also take into account that weapons are mostly imported, as Cliff mentioned, and regulated in some cases.

Alright then, but who is "Cliff"? I would expect there to be a little regulation on weapons, but not a whole lot because Felarya is such a dangerous place? Almost everyone is armed lightly in some way or another (altho alot of the stories I've read the characters don't carry anything with them often).

And that's how I became the fresh prince of fel-air.

One a more serious note, it definitely sounds interesting. Some logistics things may need to be worked out, but it sounds interesting. May post more later.

Dude, You have really thought out your idea from the get go, and thats extremly rare for a new guy to do with his first idea post, I must this is a very good idea and I hope to see its furit ( by form of stories and such). heck you even mange to insperire me to re look, re tool or re-invent my own ideas. Bravo my friend, Bravo.

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And that's how I became the fresh prince of fel-air.

Hahaha I wasn't expecting that at all, but it works perfectly!

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sounds interesting. May post more later.

Hope you do.

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Dude, You have really thought out your idea from the get go, and thats extremly rare for a new guy to do with his first idea post, I must this is a very good idea and I hope to see its furit ( by form of stories and such). heck you even mange to insperire me to re look, re tool or re-invent my own ideas. Bravo my friend, Bravo.

And thank you very much, I do try to go all out when I can. "Balls to the wall..Full throttle" etc etc LOL I figured If I have an idea, It should be something solid with a good chance to go through.

If/when this idea comes to fruition, I'm sure it will just add to felarya in its own interesting way. My origonal concept was sorta like the old timey adventurer in old comic books and stuff, in which the "hero" was some explorer in the far flung corners of the earth. A great pariody of that was the explorer guy (who eneded up being a bad guy) in Pixar's movie "UP".

Anyways guys, I would love to know what do you guys think of th Fel-Air concept? Any issues that I didn't cover yet/well enough? Any of your own suggestions that could perhaps help? Any general thoughts and opinions or even popularity (or lack there of) on the idea of aviation in Felarya?

I would love to know how the economy of Negav works to support it's population living there. It's not nececary to exactly know that for re-thinking Fel-Air, since I now know that I'd be able to reasonably import supplies/material through the dimensional gate, but it would'nt hurt at all. I will wait a few days to give time for responses and imputs before I re-invent the idea into a more finilized draft then resubmitting it.

well I belive the idea is very good and well thought out, and the possablities it could open up, like aeiral maps ( regular photo, thermal, ect..) could find some very strong use by merchants. as for any changes, I dont see any to be made.

I am back! It is about time I got this out!, I said I would do this months ago, but better late than never. Hope you guys like it, I think it can open the door to lots of fun possibilities.

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In and effort to open up more effective options to safely traverse the realm of Felarya, Fel-Air was created. Fel-Air Corporation was founded by Felix Bell who brought together an association of pilots and aircraft owners. They operate and fly, knowing fully well the Felaryan perils that face them. Some are adventure seekers, adrenaline junkies, mercenaries, Negavirians, off worlders; but one thing is common between them all: they are well trained, experienced, and competent in what they do.

Fel-Air has a fully fledged airport on the edge of Negav City which is its main base of operations. A large chunk of flights are bush flights into the wilderness of Felarya or to cleared landing strips at larger settlements. The nature of these flights require very short take off and landing areas, Thus Fel-Air has a patented technology to achieve this and drive the company to its success, where it would otherwise to near impossible to do. This piece of technology is incorporated in the aircraft that Fel-Air operates, either or on the underside of the fuselages or within the wings. They are repulse lift booster/generators that significantly cut down the area needed to land/take off to just a mere fraction of what it would have been without this.

Because of this innovation Fel-Air can have older more traditional aircraft that are less costly than any other high end expensive VTOL (Vertical Take Off and Landing) aircraft and have nearly the same capabilities. This allows the expenses, not only to Fel-Air but their customers, to remain competitive. If it wasn’t for this technology Fel-Air would have severe difficulty operating in the wilds of Felarya. With these repulse lift generators/thrusters reaching appropriate speeds and gaining an operational altitude within fifty to a hundred feet to take off; or decelerate for a controlled landing within the same space, would be near impossible for traditional fixed wing aircraft. Having the speeds and altitudes of fixed wing aircraft and the accessibility of rotary wing aircraft was deemed necessary in Felarya with its giant proportioned fauna and commonly forested landscape.

What is unique about Fel-Air when compared to more common off world aviation companies, is how the Corporation interacts with its members/employees. Fel-Air has many aircraft under its name, but the majority of them are not actually the property of the company itself, but rather the property of the pilots/mechanics/crews. Fel-Air provides the means to be able to fly; tools, Negav airport, logistics, financing, etc. You’ll find that much of the aircraft are jointly owned by Fel-Air and the respective individual(s) since they are supported by Fel-Air through low rate insurance, housing, technology loans, and other services to make sure the aircraft are in top shape and fully reliable. Because of this there are several safety and quality mandates in place, but there is no “standard fleet model”, thus the variety of aircraft is as unique as the people who fly them.

Fel-Air’s impressive success and safety record is in part by their chosen method of high speed travel: flight. But that is only part of the reason of their good record. Every flight is methodically planned out with any possibility kept in mind and there is a series of precautionary measures in place by the company. Several factors are included in deciding a route to fly: Depending on where they are flying, how far from Negav they are going, avoiding dangerous hot spots like the giant tree, what time the flight will be, and if an escort is needed are all taken into account. For example if it is a short flight in which the response teams could get there in little time, there would be no need for an escort, however if it is a long flight and the opposite hold true, then they would have an escort just in case.

Another thing Fel-Air has gained notoriety in Felarya for is their rapid response rescue teams. This is achieved by specialized crews always on standby with their high end aircraft. To ensure that the aircraft in distress isn’t over taken before the rescue crew can arrive, there are patrols scattered appropriately throughout the more used flight paths pilots typically choose. These patrol aircraft tend not to be as high end as the rescue aircraft, but are still potent performance vehicles and provide a good safety blanket.

All the aircraft under the name and usage of Fel-Air has been personally modified by their pilots, crew, and mechanics with all sorts of unique weapons and tricks to not only evade but also deter any threats they would meet while out in Felarya, in the air or on the ground. This ranges from the tried and true heavy machine gun to more clever tactics such as dropping small parachute bombs right in the face of a pursuing predator. But whenever possible the pilots will do their best to hide in the sky and avoid any unneeded company. However when they do not have to land, and there are people on the ground waiting for a delivery, they try to do supply airdrops as to minimize their vulnerability while landed.

Either if it’s trade between cities/outposts in Felarya or if it’s charters for adventures/researchers into the Felaryan wild, the job they’re paid for is the same: Safely and quickly fairing supplies, material, and personnel across the map. Fel-Air is not an air force to dominate the sky, even if they do have armed fighters fully capable of engaging in any bothersome harpy or giant, all they want to do is control the travel routes when they are in usage. It’s a much more effective and cheaper alternative than trying to control it all.

Just as the city’s life line is directly from the dimensional gate that Negav is built at, so is it the life line to Fel-Air. Much of its aircraft, fuel and munitions come from the dimensional gate at Negav, while much of Fel-Air’s personnel are Felaryan citizens rather than off worlders. It’s interesting to note that while many of its crews, security and mechanics are from the city of Negav, the majority of its pilots actually earned their wings and are from off world, where learning to fly isn’t threatened by curious giant predators. However hours worth of actual flight time and simulators can only prep you for when you are flying amongst the giant trees of the Felaryan jungles.

The main airport at Negav is not only there because of the dimensional gate, but also because of the safety of the area. Fel-Air is situated at the city boundaries, but still within the protective range of the Isolon eye. It is not too uncommon for Fel-Air to work with the Isolon fist and provide air support if it is required or asked of them. In fact a few of Fel-Air’s airport boarder security is also members of the Isolon fist or other freelancer mercenaries. But that is not to say the airport would be helpless without those. The Fel-Air boarder security is as well equipped as any other soldier. There is even a few halftracks with powerful anti air guns mounted to them which can double as a general purpose gun if anything got too close, not to mention Fel-Air’s own fighters attacking from the air. All in all the area around the Negav airport is considered very safe for any humanoids since large predators would be driven off before they could get anywhere near establishment due to the combined efforts of everything.

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Here is the first post of Fel-Air, which also has a picture. And may have more information if you are curious. http://noneofurbussiness.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24#/d4c7t4g

This is the same stuff I posted on DA nothing is different between the two.

I would like to thank everyone who put input with their concerns of Fel-Air and helped me hammer out the issues.

So what do you guys think? Feel feel free to comment and ask questions and I will answer the best I can.