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What do you think of the concept of 'predator sense'?
It is a unique and necessary element to Felarya.
22%
 22% [ 8 ]
It does have it's uses, I suppose...
32%
 32% [ 12 ]
I don't think about it that much.
30%
 30% [ 11 ]
I don't like it because it makes writing difficult.
14%
 14% [ 5 ]
I hate it. Why should my character have to tone down their awesomeness because of this crap?
2%
 2% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 37
 

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Nyaha
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PostSubject: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:37 pm

What was a gonna ask? ....Oh, yeah, I remember!

I read, on the wiki I think, that pred sense works by the magical creatures sensing magical signatures through the soil. Does that mean that if a person keeps themselves airborne that they will become invisible to predator sense?


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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:40 pm

ohohoh what a nice question!
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:51 pm

There is one instance in the wiki of magical fields being read in the air:

http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons#Air_implosion_device

"After this, the device is then thrown or backhanded behind the jetbike, where it activates on a timer or when it enters a sufficiently powerful organic magic field (such as that produced by a giant predator under the soil healing effect)."

Felaryan Ground has this:

"people who have lived on Felarya for any length of time start getting magical elements incorporated into their bones and teeth; the longer they live, the more magical they become. "

My guess is that the longer you stay in Felarya, the more you're going to stick out via magic senses, even if you're airborne. Newcomers might stick out less.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:09 pm

Nyaha wrote:
What was a gonna ask? ....Oh, yeah, I remember!

I read, on the wiki I think, that pred sense works by the magical creatures sensing magical signatures through the soil. Does that mean that if a person keeps themselves airborne that they will become invisible to predator sense?

Not exactly. Apparently waves travel through and exit out from the soil, into the air. Some predators are sensitive to anything that disturbs those emanations.

Also, any character with sufficient magical strength -especially an active spell caster- would give off enough energy to be detected. That's why using large, powerful spells out in the wilderness is bound to attract equally large (and hungry) predators. So no fancy magical fireworks or it's Om Nom Nom for the spellcaster. Surprised

Predator sense needn't be 100% accurate, either. It might only give an inkling of a feeling that something is close, or far away, without revealing an exact location, or even direction. Kind of like how humans can feel low-frequency, subsonic vibrations- we know they're there, but we can't quite tell what's making them.

Then there's Karbo's Crisis at the opposite end of the spectrum; not only can she pinpoint targets with frightening accuracy, she can tell what species make-up her future meals from multiple miles away.

Hope this helps. ^_^
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PostSubject: The wiki article on predator sense needs real definition.   Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:34 pm

Paltiel wrote:
Nyaha wrote:
What was a gonna ask? ....Oh, yeah, I remember!

I read, on the wiki I think, that pred sense works by the magical creatures sensing magical signatures through the soil. Does that mean that if a person keeps themselves airborne that they will become invisible to predator sense?

Not exactly. Apparently waves travel through and exit out from the soil, into the air. Some predators are sensitive to anything that disturbs those emanations.
Also, any character with sufficient magical strength -especially an active spell caster- would give off enough energy to be detected. That's why using large, powerful spells out in the wilderness is bound to attract equally large (and hungry) predators. So no fancy magical fireworks or it's Om Nom Nom for the spellcaster. Surprised

Only nagas, fairies or deerataurs are currently known to have the predator sense. Even then, if someone can attract their notice from a reasonable distance, then they're probably powerful enough to be not worth the effort to eat. Also, it is possible to train yourself to suppress your magical signature, something any competent mage intending to go out into the jungle would learn.
Paltiel wrote:
Predator sense needn't be 100% accurate, either. It might only give an inkling of a feeling that something is close, or far away, without revealing an exact location, or even direction. Kind of like how humans can feel low-frequency, subsonic vibrations- we know they're there, but we can't quite tell what's making them.
The predator sense is not not like radar or sonar. It is not accurate. There are only three species known to possess it. On top of that, in its basic form it doesn't give much more than a 'hunch' feeling that there's something nearby. If a pred puts in effort, they can increase the skill of this. But not many do. So when you consider that predators aren't exactly common either, the number that would have a sense that can tell direction would be few. It iss rare. The magical sense of these few species is not a super-power. It is just another heightened sense to complement their others. Its a tool, not a crutch to lean all their weight on.

Paltiel wrote:
Then there's Karbo's Crisis at the opposite end of the spectrum; not only can she pinpoint targets with frightening accuracy, she can tell what species make-up her future meals from multiple miles away.
Source on this please.
This can't be right.
Crisis has never shown the ability to sense humans from miles away. If she could, she would never need to hunt. Just...slither along until she felt people halfway across the jungle from her. Crisis is a good hunter, particularly of human-sized things, since she eats many more of them than the average pred. She is not the best hunter in Felarya though. She doesnít have super-powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:21 pm

Anime-Junkie wrote:
Paltiel wrote:
Then there's Karbo's Crisis at the opposite end of the spectrum; not only can she pinpoint targets with frightening accuracy, she can tell what species make-up her future meals from multiple miles away.
Source on this please.
This can't be right.
Crisis has never shown the ability to sense humans from miles away. If she could, she would never need to hunt. Just...slither along until she felt people halfway across the jungle from her. Crisis is a good hunter, particularly of human-sized things, since she eats many more of them than the average pred. She is not the best hunter in Felarya though. She doesnít have super-powers.

Felarya Tome 3, page 50, first panel.

It surprised me, too.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:37 pm

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Only nagas, fairies or deerataurs are currently known to have the predator sense. Even then, if someone can attract their notice from a reasonable distance, then they're probably powerful enough to be not worth the effort to eat. Also, it is possible to train yourself to suppress your magical signature, something any competent mage intending to go out into the jungle would learn.

Despite this account's low post count, I'm actually an oldbie. I've been following Felarya for nigh on three years now, so I may be remembering Felaryan wikistuff from long ago. Memory loss and dementia precursors will be the next things I get to worry about. Wink Treasure your youth, AJ. ^_^

Anyway, please check out the progression of the Predator Sense entry on the Felarya Wiki. It's interesting to see how its changed over time. (Link spam, ahoy)
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=4226&oldid=4225
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=4234&oldid=4233
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=4235&oldid=4234
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=4236&oldid=4235
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=4237&oldid=4236
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=4238&oldid=4237
- http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Predator_sense&diff=8782&oldid=4238
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:12 pm

I know you've been around for a while, I have too. But I still can not see, nor recall anything that supports what you've said there.
There's nothing that says Crisis or other predators can tell what species their target is. The wiki states specifically that the predator sense is useless at long range.
I don't really see how it's changed that much. The general idea has remained the same, it's just undergone clarification to prevent the ability to be exaggerated and to prevent the sense from being applied to every predator species.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:23 am

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Only nagas, fairies or deerataurs are currently known to have the predator sense.

Mhh that's not totally true... it's the article on the wiki thay is not very well formulated. It says :

"Some type of predators in Felarya such as nagas, fairies or deerataurs are able to sense the large magic field that covers the world."

What the phrase meant was : " Some predators, for example : nagas, fairies or deerataurs are able to etc..
It's more of an example than a definite list. I'm going to make the change.



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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:05 am

Karbo wrote:
Anime-Junkie wrote:

Only nagas, fairies or deerataurs are currently known to have the predator sense.

Mhh that's not totally true... it's the article on the wiki thay is not very well formulated. It says :

"Some type of predators in Felarya such as nagas, fairies or deerataurs are able to sense the large magic field that covers the world."

What the phrase meant was : " Some predators, for example : nagas, fairies or deerataurs are able to etc..
It's more of an example than a definite list. I'm going to make the change.




Breaking forum silence:

Karbo, the predator sense needs to be as limited as possible. It makes sense with nagas and fairies because they are magically sensitive. If you are too broad, we will be right back where we were a couple years ago, where every predator had the predator sense, and it was so precise they could sense exactly where humans were with no way to hide from it.

Its a powerful ability, like fairy magic...and like that, the creatures that can use it need to be limited.

Personally, I think nagas and fairies should be the only ones to have it. Nagas can use it as a substitute for a snake's thermal sense, and fairies...well those antenna have to be good for something, right? Besides, other predator species already have enhanced senses, and other unique senses of thier own. They don't really need the "predator sense" on top of those too.. It'd also allow for more variety in pred hunting besides "she sensed the human with her pred sense and went to go grab him".
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:33 am

I'm pretty sure he's just saying it's not limited to those races. I mean aside from the "magic exists everywhere" you'd still have an innate ability or affinity to do magic well, or if someone's blind, or lost some of their senses, having the pred sense in that case would make sense.
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PostSubject: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:21 am

rcs619 wrote:
Breaking forum silence:
I'm going to ask about predator sense right away the next time you take a vow of silence. We'll see how long you last. Evil laugh

rcs619 wrote:
Karbo, the predator sense needs to be as limited as possible. It makes sense with nagas and fairies because they are magically sensitive. If you are too broad, we will be right back where we were a couple years ago, where every predator had the predator sense, and it was so precise they could sense exactly where humans were with no way to hide from it.
Well, we wouldn't want that, that's right, but that doesn't mean that adding more limitations than there already are will fix anything. It's restricted enough as it is; if it's still a problem then it would stay one, even if it wasn't mentioned in the wiki at all.

rcs619 wrote:
Its a powerful ability, like fairy magic...and like that, the creatures that can use it need to be limited.

Personally, I think nagas and fairies should be the only ones to have it. Nagas can use it as a substitute for a snake's thermal sense, and fairies...well those antenna have to be good for something, right?
It's only powerful if the writer lets it be, and you know writers either let things be powerful or they don't. You can't blame that on the wiki article.

I can work with fairies and nagas, but deerataurs had the predator sense since they were first created, and magic elementals, lucicamps and other species that are most definitely as magical as it gets should have it too. Getting stingier with this ability won't solve anything. As a matter of fact, if you ask me, dryads and genies should have it too (okay, maybe not the genies). I can see all of those species having predator sense.

rcs619 wrote:
Besides, other predator species already have enhanced senses, and other unique senses of thier own. They don't really need the "predator sense" on top of those too.. It'd also allow for more variety in pred hunting besides "she sensed the human with her pred sense and went to go grab him".
If you want to fix that, the solution isn't to reduce the usefulness of predator sense. The solution would be showcasing other hunting techniques, and maybe rewording predator sense so it didn't sound so cool awesome interesting. But unique senses? I doubt it, I haven't read many of those.

We should really start portraying more alternatives to predator sense, write articles in the wiki for slug girl scent, squamataur vibration sensibility, purifier angel darkness feeling, nemesis dream mark tracking, if we really don't need no more things what sense humans because magic. Also as far as I know, the only one in Felarya that can find humans without them being able to hide is Subeta, and she uses a spell she knows for that, rather than predator sense.

Personally, I think we need a list of foils, more than a list of restrictions, and maybe a list of alternatives.

EDIT: This might be an issue that exceeds quick Q&A. We might need a different thread for it.

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PostSubject: dfs   Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:53 pm

Karbo, why are you saying this now? We've been saying for a long time that only the species listed in the wiki article where known to have the predator sense. You were content to say nothing for all that time, why are you suddenly reversing your precious stance?

Quote :
As a matter of fact, if you ask me, dryads and genies should have it too (okay, maybe not the genies). I can see all of those species having predator sense.
Dryads? No, I don't think so. They've got the network. I'd say that's how their natural magical ability manifests.
Consider that the dryads have an advantage that no other predator species really has. Instant knowledge access. Assuming another dryad on the network has seen something and isn't busy, they can answer another dryad's request for identification or capture tactic.

Quote :
If you want to fix that, the solution isn't to reduce the usefulness of predator sense. The solution would be showcasing other hunting techniques, and maybe rewording predator sense so it didn't sound so cool awesome interesting. But unique senses? I doubt it, I haven't read many of those.
I think part of the solution is informing people about the real capabilities of the predator sense. It's not a natural omni-penetrating magi-radar.

Quote :
magic elementals,
Yeah, I can see them having the sense if they wanted to expend the energy on it.
Quote :
lucicamps and other species that are most definitely as magical as it gets should have it too.
Or maybe they can have their own thing.

If we go by the logic that if something is magical then it has the predator sense, then why don't human mages have it?
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:32 pm

Guys, guys I just had an amazing idea.

Please hear me out.

-----

Alright, my idea is that the predator sense as we know it is EXCLUSIVE to fairies. Its an ability they created and fine-tuned.

Crisis was raised by fairies, and since she is a naga, she had the natural magical ability to be taught it. Because of all the effort into learning the fairy's magical sense though, she's basically got no experience with any other type of magic (which is why we've never seen Crisis do any obvious magic).

Basically, what Im going to propose is that, instead of a single "predator sense" that is limited to a few species... each species has its own "predator sense", or unique sense. It would help encourage a lot more variety in character design and hunting tactics. Here are a few ideas.

- Nagas:

Nagas have an incredibly sensitive sense of smell, allowing them to find potential prey from long distances, depending on the wind. This is also why most nagas prefer to make their dens in high places like trees, hills or rock formations. It gives them better access to the wind, allowing their sense of smell to be used to its maximum.

Nagas also have a secondary "predator sense", allowing them to sense vibrations through the scales on their underbelly. While this is nearly useless for detecting small prey except at excessively close range, it can help provide an early warning against larger threats, like kensha beasts, potentially giving the naga enough of a forwarning to avoid the threat.

- Harpies:

Harpies are famous for their incredible eyesight, allowing them to circle high in the air and sight potential prey far below them. It can also be combined with their naturally keen reflexes to pick out prey items even as they are flying quickly through the trees. Whether or not they would be able to loop around quick enough to catch their prey, once spotted, is a different matter entirely though.

- Dryads:

Dryads have their mental network, allowing for the sharing of information, knowledge and news of goings on in the jungle.

A lesser known ability of dryads is their ability to sense the world around them. Like with most trees, the root system of a dryad is massive, extending quite a distance in all directions from the base of her trunk, often well beyond their range of movement. Smaller roots will grow off of the main ones, moving up towards the surface, but stopping before they would break through. These smaller roots are extremely sensitive to vibrations, and by having so many of them spread out, it is not only possible for a dryad to feel when a person, or animal is nearing her, but to pinpoint its exact location relative to her roots. This is not only great for catching prey (helping to make sure a dryad doesn't miss a meal because she overlooked it passing by), but it is also great for defense, allowing the dryad a small window of forewarning to activate her illusion and be ready to hide from a potential threat.

- Fairies:

Due to their highly magical nature, fairies have developed the ability to actually sense the magical fields of other living things. This not only useful for keeping tabs on the location of a fairy's pack-mates, but is also a great tool for hunting and defense.

- Dridders:

Dridders often line their territory with various small strands of webbing, usually all coming together in the dridder's den or web. The legs of a dridder are extremely sensitive to movement and vibration, allowing her to sense even the tiniest movement caused by someone disturbing one of her security web-lines. The intensity of the vibration can give a good indication of size or strenght, and with webs spread out all over, a dridder could even monitor an intruder or potential prey item's movement through her territory as it hits on different signal lines. If it is not heading for her den, the dridder will have more then enough information on the intruder to know its general location and whether or not it would be worth going to investigate it.

This has lead to rumors of dridders having psychic abilities, since they always seem to know exactly where prey, friends or threats are within their territory, and using their stealthy bodies, are usually able to sneak up on it long before it notices the dridder.

-----

Anyway, that's my idea. Instead of debating which species would or would not have the modern "predator sense", I suggest we give each species their own unique senses. The fairies (and Crisis, and probably a few powerful mages here and there) would get the current, magically sensing version of it, and all the other species would get various, distinct types of specialized senses.

Not only would this settle the "predator sense" discussion once and for all, it would let us add new, interesting traits to current species, and flesh out some of their more animalistic aspects more. I think it would open up a lot of new story and art options as well, and a bunch of new hunting tactics and scenarios.

Anyway, just my own thoughts on the matter.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:39 pm

A lot of those just seem like a rehash of normal hunting techniques used by their earth-animal counterparts. Due to the magical nature of Felarya, I recommend combining that with some of the magic of felarya to make their own "special senses" really seem more "special".
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:44 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
A lot of those just seem like a rehash of normal hunting techniques used by their earth-animal counterparts. Due to the magical nature of Felarya, I recommend combining that with some of the magic of felarya to make their own "special senses" really seem more "special".

I don't see why everything needs to be magical. Only a handful of preds even use magic at all.

This actually showcases more of their physical abilities, what they can do without magical messing-about. It also lets us show more of their animal sides, make them seem more than just humans with wierd legs.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:46 pm

I agree wth cliff...I have always believed that each type of predator has their own way of tracking pray...just I dont think it was clearly stated in the wiki...each predator having a single way of tracking pray is kind of silly as well...since all you need to to is figure a way around that and you'd be prety much invisable...f each type of pred had their own sense...it would make preperation much more hectic since you need to keep track of everything...

though the only problem that I could see that this could cause is with the Manga...lea's pendent prevent Predators from Sensing her...unless that thng prevents all of them...Lea would be in big trouble...
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:50 pm

Quote :
though the only problem that I could see that this could cause is with the Manga...lea's pendent prevent Predators from Sensing her...unless that thng prevents all of them...Lea would be in big trouble...

True, although that can be easily fixed. It could have some kind of masking spell on it. Helps hide her magical signature, and even things like smell and such. Maybe even some kind of ambient illusion while its worn.

All it would really require is one or two extra lines of explanation. I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:52 pm

I agree with Bael, but my opinion is more to use these ideas to flesh a bit more the different hybrid specie and to keep the predator sense as an exception not a general rule which mean only few creatures or species developed it.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:52 pm

Naah, I'm not saying scrap it or anything, I mean its a good idea. However, Being able to sense a creature by smelling it's heat is something a snake does naturally. Being able to see a creature well is something a bird does naturally. That's not any different from their earth-counterparts. Felarya is magical in nature, very magical. Even if you don't have the Fairy's way of pred-sense, just being able to smell heat or see well is not "different" enough, its not special enough to really show me that it's an idea that belongs in felarya. After all, I can say that any bird in any universe can see well.

What makes them really a part of Felarya?
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:55 pm

think what cliff is trying to get with is is a "Base" predator sense that the individual species has...and from their the predator can develope it in any way they please...for example...I used this with Cliff...Dryads use their roots to sense...but Bramble Dryads use it to hunt as well...perhaps tracking magc with their roots or somthing...or tracking vibrations or somthing...

Or like My Aurora...her eyes are somewhat magical allowing her to see sources of heat and such...so I think having a base predator sense for each pred is good...then add the cool flashy gimmics to that for the individual character...
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:57 pm

kikijonson wrote:
think what cliff is trying to get with is is a "Base" predator sense that the individual species has...and from their the predator can develope it in any way they please...for example...I used this with Cliff...Dryads use their roots to sense...but Bramble Dryads use it to hunt as well...

Or like My Aurora...her eyes are somewhat magical allowing her to see sources of heat and such...so I think having a base predator sense for each pred is good...then add the cool flashy gimmics to that for the individual character...

Plus, keep in mind, even among "nagas" there's a ton of different sub-species and variations.

Nagas from different environments are all going to be a little different than nagas from other environments. There will be some variation here and there, but I was just trying to set the base of the idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:00 pm

I also agree with Bael. I like the diversity and all, but they're no longer really "predator senses", and more like heightened senses with a mix of detection tactics. I find it a little bland to be honest and it could be made more exotic. And as Enemene pointed out, it contradicts Lea's pendant. A lot of them are completely physical methods of detection, which means her trinket will only be useful for very few predators, and begs the question of what use she can make out of it, as encountering one of these handful of predators would be extremely unlikely. You can't really say that it masks her scent or has an illusion, as I'm pretty sure her entry mentioned that when wearing it, Crisis can still see her, still smell her, but can't sense her. So any mundane mean of detection work against it.
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kikijonson
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:01 pm

yeah...thats is what I was trying to say...guess my wording was off...I was trying to use that Bramble Dryads have perhaps diffrent sensory than normal Dryads...like...I'll make this up...a diffrent Dryad could make some spore system and when these sports come in contact with a creature with a magical feild...it sends a signal like thing to the Dryad...

but yeah...a Base predator sense is good...then add somthing for the subspecies that would make it a bit more unique...
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rcs619
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PostSubject: Re: Predator Sense   Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:08 pm

Quote :
no longer really "predator senses", and more like heightened senses with a mix of detection tactics

Pretty much. Instead of "the predator sense" being a super-special (slightly overused) ability only a couple species have, this would give all species their own "predator sense". It helps showcase various animalistic traits, and helps everyone have their own tricks and things to watch out for.

Quote :
And as Enemene pointed out, it contradicts Lea's pendant

That is the largest contradiction, yes. A single magical item, worn by a single character very rarely.

Like I said though, it could be easily tweaked with just a few lines of text. Believe me, Im trying to be as gentle with the canon as possible.

Quote :
A lot of them are completely physical methods of detection, which means her trinket will only be useful for very few predators

Honestly, I think that makes it better, in a way. Instead of a catch-all "Im safe from predators" medallion, now it only protects you against SOME types of predators. You are still putting yourself at risk, and aren't 100% safe.

In terms of the manga, it would add a very real urgency to finding Lea. She may be protected from some methods of detection, but there is still the very real danger she could be found and eaten by a pred.
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