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 Where it all started - a reason for leaving?

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Amaroq
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:53 pm

And posts like this one are the reason why I dont come to this forum for months after the last visit. It does seem that you just tried to prove me wrong in every aspect of what I was saying, not even agreeing with me in one single point. I wont even bother responding to any of these points whether you're right or wrong, because it would just kick off another of those discussions that I got fed up with in the past 3 and a half years.

That's the very reason why this forum is so unpopular among the community, it just sucks, it SUCKS that one can't write his opinion a single time without some self-appointed smartass (I didnt mean you in particular, no offense intended) just trying to DESTROY your post by picking every single aspect and rip it into pieces for their own satisfaction or whatever reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Amaroq wrote:
And posts like this one are the reason why I dont come to this forum for months after the last visit. It does seem that you just tried to prove me wrong in every aspect of what I was saying, not even agreeing with me in one single point. I wont even bother responding to any of these points whether you're right or wrong, because it would just kick off another of those discussions that I got fed up with in the past 3 and a half years.

That's the very reason why this forum is so unpopular among the community, it just sucks, it SUCKS that one can't write his opinion a single time without some self-appointed smartass (I didnt mean you in particular, no offense intended) just trying to DESTROY your post by picking every single aspect and rip it into pieces for their own satisfaction or whatever reasons.

Hey hey HEY. Malahite was just raising some points regarding your post. Don't start yelling just because you can't take criticism
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:03 pm

Amaroq wrote:
About the moral stuff and one individual eating each other:

I dont see any problem in that. Everywhere living beings eat beings of another species, there is no different moral in Felarya than it is here. Just look at... Pigs.

A pig is an animal humans tend to breed & eat. We watch them grow and then kill them and eat their flesh, maybe even do other stuff with their intestines in order to produce more stuff like dogfood or the hull of a bratwurst. Heck, in the past people made condoms out of fishes swim bladders! (no joke) What most people dont know is that pigs arent that dumb as they seem to be but instead they are pretty intelligent creatures - compared to others - and are capable of communicating with each other a little bit through sounds. Despite that, they are used and seen as food the second they are born and held by us humans (Exept the vegetarians). Other than some really encouraged animal-activists everyone around here accepts that as a fact, it's an unwritten law (unless you take the bible into account which says "eat what you kill") and most of us people buy their meat and whatever in the supermarket.

The pigs are, indeed, more intelligent than what they look like. However, there are some differences between your example (which I don't see bad at all) and the Felaryan predators:

1. Felaryan preds don't breed humans just for food. In fact, predators can be quite omnivorous. Aside from fairies in general and some specific predators, giant preds can go for anything, and a human being is more like a treat than a full meal. Also, they aren't killed fast and (almost) painfully, even though pigs squeel because they know they're in danger - and anyway, they still suffer... short, but they suffer -, whereas a human eaten by a naga/fairy/dryad/pick-your-pred will be slowly disolved by the predator's gastric juices in their permanent flesh prison.

2. Pigs, although intelligent, aren't sentient as far as our knowledge knows. Dogs are also intelligent yet they aren't aware of themselves either. As far as it goes, big apes and humans are the only animals known to be sentient (or sort of). And that's one of the points we are looking at too: sentient beings getting eaten by other sentient beings. It isn't just the act of being eaten.

As I said, your point isn't that wrong, you are talking of some intelligent animal being eaten, but those two differences I pointed are what I think you should consider in this as well.

Amaroq wrote:
Now we have the Felaryan setting. Felarya has a special ability that makes this whole universe a lot more possible, that is the "translation magic" or whatever you want to call it. It translates the words of an individual into something the audience is able to understand. This way, sentient beings from different races are able to understand each other. Taking this into account, it would be possible that pigs got the ability to speak. Yeah, maybe they'd not be able to say complex sentences and their sentence structure would sound like they'd be retarded but it doesnt matter. If pigs could speak they'd say something like "I'm scared!" "Help!" "Dont kill me!". Not very impressing, but seriously, in like 99% humans say the same when they're attacked by a giant pred. Now, would you still kill the pig when you are able to actually understand what it says rather than interprete that fearful squeal it makes? Maybe not YOU in personal since you never killed an animal in order to eat it before, but humans in the past who were out hunting in order to survive would. The "Eating them alive" stuff wouldnt be too disgusting either, there are people who swallow insects whole and alive just for the fun of it or as a akward show in TV.

There's a good point here. Myself, if I found a sentient being who was edible, I wouldn't kill or eat them. But that's me in a normal situation. I don't know what would happen in a life or death situation, anyway...

But for predators in Felarya, for many of them, there's the rule of the fittest and also how they have been brought up. Some have just followed their instinct and survived. And they didn't mind the pleas of those little humanoids they ate, because they needed to eat. Either that or they had been taught this way. Whatever sights the character in the matter.

The thing is that many of us would be actually scared, horrified by these things, but it's all a work of fiction, after all.

Anyway, Malahite also raises an interesting point in his reply - which is not intended to destroy your text, at least from what I read, just to point where he doesn't agree, that's all - to you, and it's that because for some predators humans are just treats, they also find pleasure in their slow deaths inside their stomachs. There are predators who actually get aroused by the thought of a human fighting inside their bellies while they're being digested. And once again: fiction, not reality. I'd like to go on with this, but I've already repeated myself some times in this thread. Razz

Also, don't feel bad for Malahite's reply, really. He is just discussing some points you made. The best we can do is keep talking in a calm way. We can't agree with everyone all the time, right? Wink

Solomon wrote:
Amaroq has a very good point if you ask me, though I think some people make it different with the fact Felarya is more porn and fetish based unlike in real life. Anyway he does have a big point if you ask me on the subject.

The part about porn and fetish, we all are aware Felarya began as a fetish world of sorts, but it's grown to cover more things. Take in account that some of us aren't here for the fetishes at all, yet we have learned the rules of this world anyway. Razz
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rcs619
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:19 pm

Quote :
And posts like this one are the reason why I dont come to this forum for months after the last visit. It does seem that you just tried to prove me wrong in every aspect of what I was saying, not even agreeing with me in one single point. I wont even bother responding to any of these points whether you're right or wrong, because it would just kick off another of those discussions that I got fed up with in the past 3 and a half years.

That's the very reason why this forum is so unpopular among the community, it just sucks, it SUCKS that one can't write his opinion a single time without some self-appointed smartass (I didnt mean you in particular, no offense intended) just trying to DESTROY your post by picking every single aspect and rip it into pieces for their own satisfaction or whatever reasons.

Umm... This is a forum. It's primary purpose is for discussing things. I don't think Malahite was trying to "destroy" your post, so much as reply to each part of it. This is a very interesting topic, one you can't just leave one-line responses to, but it ultimately has no right answer. None of us are right, and none are wrong here. It's just, a discussion. A discussion about giant imaginary animal people and vague, often personal, concepts like morality. Calm down, and ditch the victim complex.

Also, I hate to break this to you, but the forum IS the community. DA is nice, but it doesn't breed a community. It's just a place where people go to look at art and stories, sometimes leave a comment (usually one or two lines the vast majority of the time) and read poorly written/structured stories featuring mary-sues and mostly terrible ideas. There are some hidden gems, and some great stories here and there, don't get me wrong, but why don't you ask Mr.Nobody what the majority of stories on there are like, he's made it his mission to read EVERY piece of Felarya fiction on DA.

The forum is where people come to have real discussion about the setting, and where new ideas are put forward and helped made to integrate into the setting. It IS the Felarya community, and its a pretty fun place, for the most part ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:46 pm

Quick the jump the gun, aren't we, eh? I personally have no problem over what giants do to humans. It's like that one very charismatic villain in a show. You really shouldn't love him because he's an evil bastard, but he's got such a charming character that you can't help to. I can see arguments from either sides: that because they have little to no contact with human society, they see humans as very small preys with the distinctive ability to talk; or that because humans are capable of speech and sapient thought like them, they should see them as something similar to them. It's really a matter of whether you can overlook one part over the other.

Me, I see it as a mixture of both, but in favor of the former. While they should take the latter argument into consideration, because of the fact that humans are so small in such a dangerous environment, they tend to subconsciously believe that trying to make friend with a group of humans would be a waste, as they will probably die soon, so it's more practical for them to have a quick snack rather than a friend that may not live for very long.

That's just how I interpret their train of thought, anyway.
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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:29 pm

Indeed, we see pred and prey in a different light because of our education, and in the end, its still safe to say that most predators do not in fact, have an education. We discussed earlier how this issue slowly translates to "its not really their fault, because they know not what they do" that and the danger of felarya's wilderness leave no room for predators to interpret things differently. Except for races like fairies, sphyxi, dridders, and negavians who have libraries and books and such.

Felarya can be looked at in many lights, on one side its a great place to come to for my fetish - related desires.
On the other hand, if I don't think about how it's fetish related, then its not fetish related, because that will no longer be my view on it based on content. I'd just see it as kind of messed up the preds giggle over squirming prey, but understand. Also, because vore is essentially just eating, its also very easy to NOT see felarya as a fetish site. We just don't think about it that way because of the roots. I think it's very important to realize this, and Felarya truly could go either way. Like I said, point of view is important, but ours is skewed because our fetish is related to such a natural part of life. eating.
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MetaSkipper
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:02 am

The MST3K Mantra seems appropriate here.
"It's just a show, I should really just relax."
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Solomon
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:38 am

FETISH; I wonder if people realize that word means *or at least use to mean* having an obsession over something, much to the truth Felarya is fetish vore based.

I wonder if people know the word fetish means having an obsession.

But yeah I guess in the end its all based, around mere points of view no point is better then the other or right or wrong, just no real morality whatsoever in the end. Though I am most likely off on points of view and morality.
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/Fish/
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:02 am

Solomon wrote:
the word fetish means having an obsession.

lolno
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:01 am

/Fish/ wrote:
Solomon wrote:
the word fetish means having an obsession.

lolno

He's right actually.

Fetish:
1) An inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
2) A course of action to which one has an excessive and irrational commitment.

Those two are taken right from Google's dictionary.
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:06 am

You win this time Google.
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:32 am

MetaSkipper wrote:
The MST3K Mantra seems appropriate here.
"It's just a show, I should really just relax."
Couldn't have said it better myself. Felarya is for fun. The minute it's making you angry/depressed/upset/very emotionally invested in an idea being accepted or rejected . . . you're probably doing it wrong. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:01 am

But even when there's fun, there's also room for worries... at least, for some.

I actually don't give these things big thoughts, I'm here for the fun as well, but when some interesting discussion rises, I don't mind giving my two cents. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:52 am

It doesn't really bother me at all. As far as I am concerned, giant predators eat humans and others without any guilt because it just doesn't (usuallly) occur to them that it could be wrong. Once in a VERY great while you'll come across a situation where a predator starts to question the morality of it but it never seems to last long. After all-as much as Crisis ADORES Lea she doesn't exactly make the mental jump to "eating humans is wrong because they are like Lea." Crisis seems to think that Lea is "a small strange looking naga" rather than a human.

But meh-I don't think too much about it. I'm just here for the fun and the giant boobies.

*runs off chased by Anna*
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:45 pm

If I may bring this up, I wasn't here when this was started and I just wanted to contribute.

The issue here, is empathy.

Most of us have the potential for empathy, but not everyone learns it.

When we are born, we are selfish. We scream at our parents if they fail to please us, a behavior that goes well into when we are able to walk and eat for ourselves, and so surpasses the necessary for such behavior, but we still do it anyway. When our parents don't get the toy "we want" most of us throw a fit. When children do that, they are emotionaly blackmailing their parents, because at that point we are starting to understand how other emotions work, yet we haven't learned enougth to care about them.

essentially, we are little shits at the start of our lives.

Empathy for others is something you learn. And so you are not taught it, it doesn't come to you like magic.
And when you do learn it, you only learn to empathise with people that are the same as you, why did you think sexism started? Why did you think racism started? and so on. They are just social constructs because someone noticed someone different from them, and failed to connect. They didn't recognise in those people what they would associate with intelligent, feeling people. The lack of assocaition made them subconsciously decide that these things were not the same, they were below human and therefore not entiled to the same treatment. hey dehumanized them. Their feelings simply do not register, they are just gimmicked behavior patterns as far as they are concerned.

And when you dehumanize a group of sentient beings, well you can justifty pretty much anything. And since most humans in Felarya are unpleasant to begin with, it would only confirm the predators' generalisation that humans are unfeeling. It's not like humans are making a good case for themselves is it?


Last edited by DarkOne on Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:13 pm

I wonder if it works the same way for other races brains? Other predators, too. Of course they probably aren't aware of that.
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DarkOne
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:38 pm

I think it would work for any sentient creature. A sentient lifeform makes sense of it's world by searching for patterns to familiar itself with. It will connect with other Sentient creatures with the same pattern, will base everything on that connection, it's feelings, everything. Some minds are better at connecting when they see a pattern that they arn't familiar with, but many would reject the "strange element" and not connect at all. Sometimes it's obvious, like fear. Such as the uncanny valley effect, something that looks like a human, like a robot can disturb us. It had certain patterns we recongize, but because it doesn't act like a human down to the very detail it alarms us.

dehumanization is a more subtle way of dealing with it, your not scared, but you don't feel for it either, and you will think about selfish applications for that element. a one ended relationship essentaily. You're connecting with it in some sense, but not enougth to feel for it.

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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:34 am

Personnally, I left a bit the setting because it didn't inspire me anymore.

There's also something wrong with the community, can't figure out what, though.

This forum is kinda dead... It's sad to see that the threads that are so alive and receive so much attention are those talking about how bad the community is or something related (like when a shitstorm begins).
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PostSubject: Re: Where it all started - a reason for leaving?   Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:11 am

About the community, I woulden't get too disheartened. Things become popular, then people get bored or unhappy and it becomes unpopular. but it doesn't mean it's dead, it could just mean it needs replenishing, more variation. But at the same time be respectful to what others have done. it's quite a hard balance to get, but that's the sort of thing I find really interesting and is why I didn't bail at the first sign of trouble.

When one Door Closes, another one opens, or some shit like that

God, I am really positive today......
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