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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:02 am

There is another point that bothers me. The newly revised entry state that the culture of Kortiki had become more uniform thanks to the one humans have brought over the years. This would seem to imply that, as time passed, more people had settled there. However, as the surrounding area is so dangerous for outsiders, the chances of new people setting down there are almost null. If anything, the vast majority of the non-fairy population would be composed of descendants of the original "colonists".

What I would suggest, and I think this could work with Kiki's idea of a Guild there, is that there would be occasional patrols of the surrounding areas. As the inhabitants of Kortiki stand a better chance of surviving outside the town's borders, they would best suited to search for people who found themselves stranded in the Fairy Kingdom, and offer them a relatively safe haven in Kortiki.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:22 am

I honestly don't see the point of the trade guild at all.

Kortiki Town is a place populated by humans and fairies. Between human ingenuity and fairy magic, they shouldn't need to trade with anyone. This isn't Negav, or even Chiotia, home to tens of thousands of people that need feeding. Crops tended with fairy magic to increase the rate of growth, or even crops that are enlarged via fairy magic to feed more people would do just fine. You'd just need to supplement them with occasional hunting trips out into the forest for meat, or get some fishing going if there's a river/stream nearby.

Kortiki is just too far away for any kind of caravan to do anything. It would be like taking a caravan from the west coast of the US all the way to the east coast. It would take months, if not a year or more, for a round trip. It isn't like Kortiki has access to advanced magi-tech like jetbikes, nor do they really need them.

Not every major city in Felarya needs to be interconnected. Negav and Chiotia likely don't even know of each others existence outside of myth, rumor and legend. That feeling of isolation is part of what makes big settlements in Felarya so interesting. You have a group of people who, for all they know, are alone in the world... and they are trying to survive in a harsh wilderness.

Honestly, I think it would be much more interesting to actually focus on Kortiki itself, and not how we can shoe-horn it into trading with every other city in Felarya. Focus on how the humans and fairies who live there work together, deal with each other, and interact. Remember, it would be a big risk for fairies there as well. If the town is mostly built to human-scale, then fairies will need to be small most of the time. A human-sized fairy, or even smaller, is very vulnerable. They are generally more lightly built than humans, and honestly, it wouldn't be hard for humans to harm fairies just as easily as the fairies there can potentially harm humans.

That could be what helps keep the experiment going and running relatively smoothly. If the fairies just began eating humans openly and often, then the humans would revolt. Any human-sized or smaller fairies would be at serious risk to their health and even lives. As for why it was founded, I believe it was some kind of experiment. Maybe a human sympathetic fairy, or even Mezzus himself helped lay the groundwork. Maybe he and his wife really believed humans and fairies COULD co-exist. There's a lot of ways to go about it.

I could even see a joint city council running things. Representatives of the fairy residents, and human residents, meeting, voting and discussing ways to keep the town running.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:50 am

This feeling of isolation is not limited to Kortiki. Although slightly off-topic, it is nonetheless related, so bear with me. While reaching the Jungle Bowl is a less perilous journey, assuming one started from Negav, in both cases, there is little, if any, reward for venturing there. As such, both settlements are mostly inhabited by the descendants of the people who originally founded these settlements. While I do believe that there are routine patrols around the border of the Bowl, in case some lost person is nearby, there seem to be no such thing for Kortiki. How do non-fairy citizenry diversify if it remains static? If anything, Kiki's idea of a guild could be reworked where they don't engage in trading, but largely for scouting the surrounding areas, perhaps finding "survivors" and escorting them back to the settlement.

Also, no mention for nekos and elves, who both are explicitly stated to live in the town? I feel ashamed.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:55 am

I thought that Kortiki's charm was precisely that it was a secluded, uneasy community where fairies and humans and others somehow manage to co-exist. Making it suddenly open and regularly dealing with Negav and the other settlements kind of takes away what uniqueness it had. Maybe the focus should be more abotu Kortiki itself and not how the rest of the world deals with it
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:00 am

Shady Knight wrote:
This feeling of isolation is not limited to Kortiki. Although slightly off-topic, it is nonetheless related, so bear with me. While reaching the Jungle Bowl is a less perilous journey, assuming one started from Negav, in both cases, there is little, if any, reward for venturing there. As such, both settlements are mostly inhabited by the descendants of the people who originally founded these settlements. While I do believe that there are routine patrols around the border of the Bowl, in case some lost person is nearby, there seem to be no such thing for Kortiki. How do non-fairy citizenry diversify if it remains static? If anything, Kiki's idea of a guild could be reworked where they don't engage in trading, but largely for scouting the surrounding areas, perhaps finding "survivors" and escorting them back to the settlement.

Also, no mention for nekos and elves, who both are explicitly stated to live in the town? I feel ashamed.

Its a settlement in Felarya that isn't Negav. Most of the people there ARE going to be descendants of the people who originally settled.

It isn't like the forest is teeming with thousands upon thousands of humans to save. Humans are semi-rare in the Tolmeshol Forest. There aren't going to be many at all in the Fairy Kingdom, much less within walking distance of Kortiki. It is just a huge risk for no real gain. New people would trickle in over the years, either drawn there by dumb luck, or maybe rescued by a sympathetic fairy, but there isn't going to be a whole lot of new faces coming in all the time. Negav is a trade-hub for dozens of worlds. Kortiki, like Chiotia, is a "real" Felaryan settlement. An isolated community in the middle of a death-world.

When you're in that kind of situation, reaching out isn't necessarily the best idea. You have your people, your resources and your little place of safety. If people come across it, fine. If they don't, well it isn't really anything to worry about. The people of Kortiki should be much more concerned with keeping the town running, and keeping the peace with the fairies.

Honestly, it might be a good idea for fairies who openly (or get caught in the act of) eat a human to be punished for it. I mean, there could be occasional, unexplained disappearances that people just kind of overlook and move on from... but of a fairy gets caught in the act, well I imagine something must be done to make up for it. Maybe giving her to boot and forbidding her from ever returning to town, or maybe other fairies turn a blind eye if some humans decide to punish her themselves. Same with humans, really. If a human just goes off and kills/injures a fairy openly, they'd probably get punished too. Lots of ways to go about it.

That's a reason why taking in a bunch of random wanderers might, in fact, be a BAD idea. It is an inter-species incident waiting to happen if they've got some vendetta against fairies, and decide to act on it.

The fact is, there is an uneasy peace, and if things go badly the whole experiment will be over. Humans, human-sized people and fairies would all get hurt or even die, and the town would be irreparably damaged. It is all based on trust, and that is easily broken.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:24 am

It seems that you are missing my point. Think about it for a minute, if the non-fairy inhabitants are all descendants of the original founders, that means that, by this generations, almost all of those people's origins can be tracked down a single family line. In other words, the vast majority of humans there share blood with each other, which could be considered inbreeding (if that doesn't count as inbreeding, I shall retract that statement). I don't think this would be a good thing. What I am getting at is that Kortiki is called a TOWN, not a village. The number of humans, nekos and elves would need to be fairly substantial. Yes, fairies would indeed be the most populous species in Kortiki, but as the wiki state, the influence of non-fairies was strong enough to impact the culture there. Therefore, it's human inhabitants must number high enough for such a meld to occur. If 9 out of 10 humans there are the descendants of the colonists, they wouldn't have much, if any impact on the fairy culture there. As for the searches, it appears you are forgetting the dimensional anomaly that is Felarya. It is possible, albeit rare, that someone was transported in Felarya against its will, and unfortunately found itself in the Fairy Kingdom. Furthermore, the wiki explicitely states that the surrounding area has semi-frequent portals appearing at random. There would be a possibility of people from another part of Felarya falling out of one of these portals and into the Fairy Kingdom. If this is what you mean by people being drawn here by dumb luck, then you are right.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:58 am

Quote :
It seems that you are missing my point. Think about it for a minute, if the non-fairy inhabitants are all descendants of the original founders, that means that, by this generations, almost all of those people's origins can be tracked down a single family line. In other words, the vast majority of humans there share blood with each other, which could be considered inbreeding (if that doesn't count as inbreeding, I shall retract that statement)

You don't found a town with a single family. There could have initially been hundreds of humans at the founding of Kortiki Town. Dozens of families.

Let's say we have an initial population of 500 humans at the time of founding. Let's assume half of them eventually pair off to form families. That would come out to be 125 married couples. That's quite a few different families to start off with. There's still 250 single people left for the offspring of those 125 families to pair with, not to mention other offspring from the other families. I am not even counting in the number of human/fairy pairings that would happen and the half-fairy offspring those would produce.

I never meant to say that they would all be descendants of one family. But most would be descendants of the original founders. You can have quite a diverse pool of families without even bringing in outsiders into the equation.

Quote :
hat I am getting at is that Kortiki is called a TOWN, not a village. The number of humans, nekos and elves would need to be fairly substantial.

Indeed. I was estimating between 2000 and 8000 myself. Chiotia has roughly 12,000-14,000 residents (not including human-sized mermaids and crustacean hybrids who live in Tolem Bay) and I can't see Kortiki being larger than that.

Quote :
Yes, fairies would indeed be the most populous species in Kortiki, but as the wiki state, the influence of non-fairies was strong enough to impact the culture there. Therefore, it's human inhabitants must number high enough for such a meld to occur

I don't think fairies would be the "most numerous". The fairy population will be in a much higher state of flux. Fairies born in Kortiki would not necessarily stay there. Fairies are notoriously free-spirited and flighty. They'd go off on their own, leave their "hometown" to prove themselves, seek their own fortune, or even just to get away from their parents. However, ALL the humans born in Kortiki Town will live there, since leaving the town is death. If humans weren't the majority to begin with, they certainly would be over time, since all of their children are staying, and all of the fairies' aren't.

Quote :
Furthermore, the wiki explicitely states that the surrounding area has semi-frequent portals appearing at random. There would be a possibility of people from another part of Felarya falling out of one of these portals and into the Fairy Kingdom. If this is what you mean by people being drawn here by dumb luck, then you are right.

The Fairy Kingdom appears to be roughly the size of Texas. For those who don't know, Texas is big. It is bigger than France. Humans are going to appear from time to time by accident, but the odds that they would appear within walking distance of Kortiki, close enough for an on-foot patrol to find them, is abysmally small. It just doesn't justify the risk. It would be far more likely for a Kortiki hunting expedition to find offworlders than a dedicated patrol. Since the hunters are going deeper into the forest, and likely have a fairy friend with them to back them up and help out (if they are smart about how they do it).
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:11 am

Ah, but here is the thing. Karbo himself has stated that one of the somewhat safer way a person could reach Kortiki by one of those portals. It would not be impossible for some members of this community to be knowledgeable about them and use them to access different parts of the Fairy Kingdom within a shorter amount of time. Furthermore, in no way have I said that expeditions would not include fairies. If anything, expeditions utilizing fairies as guides throughout this region would be a clear sign of the odd friendship between the species. Yes, I admit that it would be wasteful to go out of your way to find stranded nekos and elves, when they could literally be anywhere. But, to expand further on the idea of random hunters stumbling upon an unfortunate individual, it would not be impossible for fairies to accompany said hunters, providing them more protection in the deeper parts of the region, where they might find more exotic catches. Of course, those wouldn't happen often.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:28 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Ah, but here is the thing. Karbo himself has stated that one of the somewhat safer way a person could reach Kortiki by one of those portals. It would not be impossible for some members of this community to be knowledgeable about them and use them to access different parts of the Fairy Kingdom within a shorter amount of time. Furthermore, in no way have I said that expeditions would not include fairies. If anything, expeditions utilizing fairies as guides throughout this region would be a clear sign of the odd friendship between the species. Yes, I admit that it would be wasteful to go out of your way to find stranded nekos and elves, when they could literally be anywhere. But, to expand further on the idea of random hunters stumbling upon an unfortunate individual, it would not be impossible for fairies to accompany said hunters, providing them more protection in the deeper parts of the region, where they might find more exotic catches. Of course, those wouldn't happen often.

Then we agree on most of it.

I wasn't saying that people couldn't use portals or portal magic to get there, or that they couldn't wind up close through dumb-luck.

I was merely saying that I felt a dedicated Kortiki patrol to look for offworlders didn't make sense to me. It is just not an efficient way to expend resources. Food, water, supplies, manpower and so on. I could see the town adopting an attitude of "If someone is lucky enough to find their way here, or get found by a hunting party, that's great. If not, well it doesn't change anything for us". Not to mention, the rest of the fairy kingdom is not neutral, and wild fairies may not like a bunch of humans and human-loving fairies stealing away potential snacks. It could possibly put Kortiki into a worse diplomatic situation with surrounding fairy packs.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:41 am

You just brought up a point that reinforce the notion of a patrol. While searching for stranded elves and such would indeed be a waste, what would defend the town from other dangers? After all, fairies are only part of the more common inhabitants of the Fairy Kingdom. These would have no qualms over attacking the town. Furthermore, echydins and dryads aside, there are still quite a lot of dangers for wild fairies too. Deerataurs especially, who possess a magic-draining stomach, and would be able to detect fairy magic, not to mention various ghosts and spirits. If there would be no people to defend Kortiki, how could it remain standing for so long?
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:46 am

Shady Knight wrote:
You just brought up a point that reinforce the notion of a patrol. While searching for stranded elves and such would indeed be a waste, what would defend the town from other dangers? After all, fairies are only part of the more common inhabitants of the Fairy Kingdom. These would have no qualms over attacking the town. Furthermore, echydins and dryads aside, there are still quite a lot of dangers for wild fairies too. Deerataurs especially, who possess a magic-draining stomach, and would be able to detect fairy magic, not to mention various ghosts and spirits. If there would be no people to defend Kortiki, how could it remain standing for so long?

Well, a close border patrol, or town watch is reasonable. My issue was with a search and rescue kind of patrol that wandered off into the forest to look for people.

Honestly, I think any attack on Kortiki would be a bad idea. There's enough fairies, half-fairies, and humans who've likely had magic lessons from fairies to put together a pretty dangerous town militia. I could imagine more than a few battlemage-caliber mages living in Kortiki. Would they be as refined and disciplined as Negavian battlemages, most likely not. But they would still be a decent deterrent, especially in groups. Not to mention the older humans and fairies, who have had decades upon decades to practice and learn from each other. You could potentially have a couple arch-mage level people living there too.

I also think it would be completely reasonable for humans to have various hidden shelters and supply depots scattered around. Preparations for just in case the fairies ever turned on them maybe, or if a big, dangerous animal ever got into town. Maybe escape tunnels for noncombatants to get into and hide.

As with Negav, I do believe keeping a small buffer-zone around the town relatively secure is important. Even more so than Negav since they don't have a magical thingy to help drive threats away. It isn't like Kortiki is going to be highly militarized, but even if there's an understanding with local fairy packs, you do still at least want to keep an eye on the surrounding area. I would imagine the main problem would be wild animals. The whole "Mess with this town and 200+ fairies will shit on your life" thing would keep most intelligent preds from causing trouble, I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:02 pm

A border patrol remains a patrol nonetheless. What if members of the town watch came across or spotted a lost explorer? Would they just abandon him or her? I don't think so. While the concept is more restricted to the immediate area surrounding Kortiki Town, I do believe that their patrols for any threat to the town would also include offering shelter to people who stumbled there through sheer, dumb luck. Also, I agree that a deerataur would think twice before assaulting Kortiki head on, but what stops it from assaulting hunting parties? Making the surroundings safer, especially in absence of Negav's and Nekomura's Isolon Eye, would be critical for this settlement prosper.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:10 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
A border patrol remains a patrol nonetheless. What if members of the town watch came across or spotted a lost explorer? Would they just abandon him or her? I don't think so. While the concept is more restricted to the immediate area surrounding Kortiki Town, I do believe that their patrols for any threat to the town would also include offering shelter to people who stumbled there through sheer, dumb luck. Also, I agree that a deerataur would think twice before assaulting Kortiki head on, but what stops it from assaulting hunting parties? Making the surroundings safer, especially in absence of Negav's and Nekomura's Isolon Eye, would be critical for this settlement prosper.

Well yeah. I don't have an issue with town watch patrols.

It seemed like you were making the argument that patrols would be sent out into the wilderness specifically to search for offworlders. That was what i thought was a little silly.

Security patrols are fine. And yes, fairy escorts are really the only way hunting parties and town watch patrols can work. I think plenty of fairies would be willing to help too.

You'd have an interesting cultural divide in Kortiki, I think. First, would be the older members. Some of them would maybe have even been around before the founding. Back when humans were just food, and fairies were... well, fairies. They likely would not trust each other, or socialize all that much. Other older members would be more idealistic. Maybe they believe in the idea of coexistence, and have been the driving force behind improving the town over the years. There's also the human kids, the fairy offspring and also the half-fairies. People born in Kortiki, people who have an emotional attachment to the town, to the people there and even other species than their own. Some of the younger people might even consider themselves Kortikians (...or something =P ) before they even consider themselves human or fairy or so on. There are a lot of interesting options for the socio-cultural side of the town. Lots of potential views and stances, depending on age and upbringing.

When it comes down to it though, I think most people there would want to make it work. Even if they don't like humans, or fairies... they would likely have friends, or family members who do. People who have an emotional connection to the town, and to other species. It is that attachment that would make people come together, even if they don't like eachother, to at least try and make things work. I think Kortiki would be a pretty tense place to live sometimes, and it wouldn't be perfect... but I think it would work, because the majority of the town want to try and make it work.

That's also why I think we need to have those punishments I mentioned earlier. Trust goes both ways, and trust is basically all that's keeping Kortiki together.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:53 pm

Well, I had mentioned earlier the idea of Road Wardens and the like. The purpose of that was mostly to keep Kortiki's population from stagnating, and also because I think most people would trust an average outside-Kortiki fairy about as far as they can throw them (if even that much).

Even if the person is briefly walking outside of town for a few minutes with a Fairy friend, other Fairies might not particularly care about the fact that Fairy A considers Human A a "friend" / person. Fairy B goes "Oh hey, something I wanted to show you Fairy A", five minutes later they come back to find Human A gone and Fairy C claiming "Oh, Human A said they just remembered something, had to rush back to town." By the time Fairy A goes to town and realizes no-one's seen Human A since they left, Fairy B and C are long gone while Human A has long since ceased to be amongst the living. The Road Wardens go about specifically trying to reduce such instances, and to keep an eye out for rebellious young fairies who plan on "House Tipping" in a sudden raid, snatching a few humans for lunch, and flying off giggling as the town guard and fairies give chase.

~ ~ ~

As for the "magic training" idea, you probably have only a few niche gains from going to Kortiki to train under fairies. Some of their magic is Fairy-exclusive, and others work under the premise of being a Fairy / innate power (which is a bit hard to explain to people without such connections / powers). And if you have deep enough pockets to reach Kortiki (which you probably need to both learn about Kortiki, reach the town, then have something worth the Fairy's while to learn their tricks), you probably have deep enough ones to similarly request training from a Magocrat.

~ ~ ~

The background "Something humans did gets the Fairies respect", could probably tie it in to some old order or religion or the like that helped in some sort of battle long ago. They had a bit of a portal misfortune and wound up in Fairy territory during a particularly shitty time (maybe Dridders were making a push, or Crimson Maidens had decided they wanted to expand, or some Diamond Naga thought they'd take ALL the Magics). They helped the Fairies at a rather noticeable cost to themselves, and the Fairies around thought it'd be a fairly shitty reparation to go "Thanks, now NOM". Or they all died in the effort, and - eventually - another portal lead people from the same group to roughly the same spot, and the Fairies decided "Hell, they helped us, can at least return the favor".
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:08 pm

Quote :
Well, I had mentioned earlier the idea of Road Wardens and the like. The purpose of that was mostly to keep Kortiki's population from stagnating, and also because I think most people would trust an average outside-Kortiki fairy about as far as they can throw them (if even that much).

Even if the person is briefly walking outside of town for a few minutes with a Fairy friend, other Fairies might not particularly care about the fact that Fairy A considers Human A a "friend" / person. Fairy B goes "Oh hey, something I wanted to show you Fairy A", five minutes later they come back to find Human A gone and Fairy C claiming "Oh, Human A said they just remembered something, had to rush back to town." By the time Fairy A goes to town and realizes no-one's seen Human A since they left, Fairy B and C are long gone while Human A has long since ceased to be amongst the living. The Road Wardens go about specifically trying to reduce such instances, and to keep an eye out for rebellious young fairies who plan on "House Tipping" in a sudden raid, snatching a few humans for lunch, and flying off giggling as the town guard and fairies give chase

I'd like to think that humans and fairies living in Kortiki town are not idiots. Could that potentially happen? Maybe... but still, I think both humans and their fairy friends will know the stakes. Fairies being..well, fairies, does not make them bubbly, stupid airheads. If they have a human friend, I'm fairly sure they know how much potential danger he/she is in, and would make sure to keep them safe. Not a very good friend if they don't.

As for "house tipping", that... would be EXTREMELY bad if they got caught. Not only would they have the human-sympathetic fairies in Kortiki out to get them, they'd have the humans of Kortiki out for blood too. It's just a bad idea in general to try and go into Kortiki to mess with the humans, unless you're really damn sneaky about it. If the humans don't catch you and get you, their fairy friends will.

Also, let's remember, these are humans who have lived around fairies for generations. They probably have a pretty good understanding of the fairy mindset, and they can probably read their intentions fairly well. They aren't going to be stupid either. It wouldn't surprise me if some form of fairy self-defense was taught to humans as they were growing up. Not much you can do to a fairy if they just outright sneak up on you... but if you have a little warning, or they mess up, a human could potentially cripple a human-sized or smaller fairy pretty quick.

Basically, its the same thing I say about people in Negav, and professional adventurers/mercenaries. They aren't going to all go "herpaderp" and then get eaten. Humans are crafty =P

Quote :
As for the "magic training" idea, you probably have only a few niche gains from going to Kortiki to train under fairies. Some of their magic is Fairy-exclusive, and others work under the premise of being a Fairy / innate power (which is a bit hard to explain to people without such connections / powers). And if you have deep enough pockets to reach Kortiki (which you probably need to both learn about Kortiki, reach the town, then have something worth the Fairy's while to learn their tricks), you probably have deep enough ones to similarly request training from a Magocrat.

Yeah, going to Kortiki to learn magic is kind of excessive.

However, I imagine quite a few of the residents there have gotten pointers from their fairy friends. Might even be a magic school for the magically inclined humans to be taught. It isn't like they have access to lots of fancy guns or tech, so magical defense is really their only choice. Between having fairies around to help teach, and the number of half-fairies that will undoubtedly live there, I could easily see Kortiki having quite a few powerful mages. They won't necessarily be as refined as Negavian mages, since fairies won't have as much knowledge and documentation at their disposal... but they would still be trained, and that counts for a lot.

Quote :
The background "Something humans did gets the Fairies respect", could probably tie it in to some old order or religion or the like that helped in some sort of battle long ago. They had a bit of a portal misfortune and wound up in Fairy territory during a particularly shitty time (maybe Dridders were making a push, or Crimson Maidens had decided they wanted to expand, or some Diamond Naga thought they'd take ALL the Magics). They helped the Fairies at a rather noticeable cost to themselves, and the Fairies around thought it'd be a fairly shitty reparation to go "Thanks, now NOM". Or they all died in the effort, and - eventually - another portal lead people from the same group to roughly the same spot, and the Fairies decided "Hell, they helped us, can at least return the favor".

I really don't see how humans could help at all with a conflict between fairies and, well, any other giant species.

Personally, I think it'd be much more likely if Kortiki was started as some sort of experiment. Maybe by a human-sympathetic fairy/fairies, or maybe even by the Archmage Mezzus and his wife. A town where humans and fairies can co-exist, and live together. As much love as Mezzus probably had for the fairies, I can't see him giving up all his ties to humanity either. If he could help his own kind AND his wife's species, I think he would jump at the chance. Plus, he's an Archmage, a scholar. What could be more interesting than a grand experiment like inter-species cohabitation?

Also, you'd need a LOT of sway to set up a neutral ground in the fairy kingdom. The person doing it would need to have respect among the local fairies.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:52 am

Just some thoughts, back when I originally read the the entry on Kortiki town the phrasing "declared neutral ground" made me think that it might have been the sight of some negotiation. Perhaps the site of an embassy from the time of the 'Secret Treaty'. This wouldn't necessarily conflict with the hero theory as sites of great deeds are often selected to give credibility to treaties.

Adults will generally have learned to stay in town or have one or more fairy friends with at all times outside of town. Raising children would be a serious difficulty though. They'd probably keep the parent/child ratio low as well as a lot of cultural things like nursery rhymes and games designed to drum the dangers of leaving town into kids heads.

It would be interesting a story written from the point of view of a Nagavian or Deluran who found themselves trapped there, the humans and demi-humans living there seeming as strange to them as the fairies.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:41 am

Yeah, it would appear quite foreign seeing them living together. Some might even consider it heresy.

Makes me wonder if the humans there wouldn't be absolutely reviled by Negavians who had bad encounters with fairies.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:36 am

I find it funny that seemingly the hatred of someone living in Kortiki... is entirely toward humans living with Fairies, and none the other way (which is why I imagined a house-tipping prank: To those Fairies the Kortiki bunch are pretty much insane and it doesn't matter if they get upset over a few dozen lost humans). The wiki even mentions that much of Mezzus' loathing is not (entirely) "He lives with fairies" but "Rumors of experiments involving shrunken humans and his wife may have something to do with that."

This is not to say I don't mind such a plot point (Some humans are dicks and think Kortiki residents racial traitors), but it shouldn't be purely done with humans. Hell, if anything, it would logically be more common in Fairies (or in the very least, Kortiki fairies seen as extremely eccentric and odd for considering those little food things as not only people, but equal to a Fairy in personhood!). It's not like we have no examples of Fairies having extreme bias' / ideologies, after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:08 am

Malahite wrote:
I find it funny that seemingly the hatred of someone living in Kortiki... is entirely toward humans living with Fairies, and none the other way (which is why I imagined a house-tipping prank: To those Fairies the Kortiki bunch are pretty much insane and it doesn't matter if they get upset over a few dozen lost humans). The wiki even mentions that much of Mezzus' loathing is not (entirely) "He lives with fairies" but "Rumors of experiments involving shrunken humans and his wife may have something to do with that."

This is not to say I don't mind such a plot point (Some humans are dicks and think Kortiki residents racial traitors), but it shouldn't be purely done with humans. Hell, if anything, it would logically be more common in Fairies (or in the very least, Kortiki fairies seen as extremely eccentric and odd for considering those little food things as not only people, but equal to a Fairy in personhood!). It's not like we have no examples of Fairies having extreme bias' / ideologies, after all.

I really don't think there'd be such a radical amount of hatred. Humans aren't going to go "TRAITORZ WHO LIVE WITH FAIRIES!" Hell, if anything, they'd probably respect the fact that they were able to pull off that kind of deal. It isn't like they're working with fairies to eat humans. They just managed to work out a safe place to live. I'd bet good money that if it came down to living in Kortiki, or going back off into the woods, every single person would choose Kortiki regardless of their personal views.

It isn't like Negav, or the other settlements/factions would even know about it. Outside of occasional myths, rumors and legends.

I can't see most of the wild fairies being overtly hateful of the Kortiki fairies either. They probably think they're all a bit strange, but I doubt it'd be outright hatred. The Kortiki fairies aren't stuck there. They can come and go as they want. There's probably more than a few wild fairy packs who regularly visit Kortiki. If it really was declared neutral ground, then the wild fairies would have had to agree to it for it to have had any chance of surviving past its founding. It isn't like a bunch of humans plopped a town down in the middle of the forest. It would have needed to be a collaborative effort. A lot of the fairies living in Kortiki town are probably descendants of wild fairies who originally helped build it.

People don't just think in black and white, and trying to boil this down into "They hate them, and they hate them" is kind of silly. Kortiki is a complex place in a complex situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:44 am

Also, most fairies who haven't suffered emmense abuse aren't that conductive to racially-motivated hate. They're a pretty laid-back race, and while humans are, in general, food to them, they seem to respect those with human friends. I can't see Kortiki Town as being any different, in that respect, just on a larger scale. And like RCS says, a lot of the residents might be wanderers, at that.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Well, for starters...

Fairies don't exactly have an eating disorder kicking in every time they feel offended or stressed: that only happens to the older preds. Before we consider what happens if a fairy eats a citizen, maybe we should consider what happens if a fairy discharges a revolver into one, or burns 'em to ashes with lightning: it's murder. If eaten... well, they might survive, which I believe could account for why this scenario could remain a likely one even in Kortiki: it leaves it up to the fairy whether they survive or not, and assuming they were let out in the end, the fairy could get away with at most a reputation as a very unpleasant, psychotic, unstable and violently antisocial b-word. It'd be kinda like the Kortiki equivalent of beating someone to a bloody pulp. All gangsta-style.

If it were "deserved", well, maybe the fairy would feel comfortable with pushing it maybe all the way to digestion. What happens then... I wouldn't know. Best case scenario, they get away with it, and everyone gets to move on with their lives. Worst case scenario, on the other hand, well, we'll know just how much they trust each other.


Personally, Archville, I don't think it'd be necessary to mark anyone. It'd be really easy to tell apart a person from Kortiki- just by their accent and choice of words (if not threads: if you're wearing a red shirt, you're probably not from Kortiki). At least, TV has made me believe cultures and subcultures tend to form their own accents and choices of words. Now, as for friends, I think most fairies would give a human in Kortiki at least the benefit of doubt. Assuming the town itself isn't small enough for everyone to know each other, they should at least know each other's faces well enough to tell outsiders or people they've never seen before apart from the others. And in a secluded community, outsiders tend to quickly become the focus of attention. It shouldn't be hard to make friends in that situation. On the other hand, it's a safe assumption when around Kortiki that anyone who isn't an outsider might have friends in places like yours- whether you're a human or a fairy.


As for Kortiki's reputation as a safe place- I don't think it'd have much of one. People in Negav antagonize predators so much they like to hear about them getting beat up- hearing of such a place would most likely lead them to complete it with their own imaginations, unbridled by the fact that they're actually spouting rumors about the place. It's not a rumor if you don't believe it exists! And would you believe a fairy that if you got to that place she wouldn't eat you? I'd take it as a prank, myself. I agree with Cliff that it shouldn't be a regular trader with any major city- those traders that did go between Negav and Kortiki would do best to keep their mouth shut about it. At best, they won't be believed- at worst, they'll attract the wrong kind of attention. If Kortiki traded regularly with anyone, it'd be probably be those secluded settlements no one writes about until Crisis eats 'em out. Needless to say, I don't think there'd be many human or humanoid towns in the Fairy Kingdom. Maybe there's some smaller fairy communities or waystations of sorts, at most.


If Kortiki needs a reason to exist, I'd say it also needs a reason to exist even after the original reason is forgotten- something that makes it worth having. Maybe it's the beer? Maybe it's the medical care? Maybe it's the architecture? Maybe it's the variety of interesting things that keep happening? Maybe it's the interesting people they can meet without worrying about being killed in their sleep for trusting someone who secretly hates their race? Maybe it's a good place to send your friend if they don't like what you do with your other friends?


Now, maybe I'm being pretty silly on this- but we shouldn't say humans all that much. Why aren't we thinking about elves and tomthumbs in Kortiki? I'd think fairies could get along with them too, and humans have this thing where, without age, disease or predators, our population explodes immensely. What exactly is keeping Kortiki in check? What foe are they facing? Are people leaving? Did someone cast a birth control spell on the soil and you can only have children with your true love? Is the town less than 10 years old?


Here's to hoping it helps a little.

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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:29 pm

Population control in Felarya... that's something I've mulled over plenty of times.

In a place like Negav, a safe place, there's no need for it outside the worry of not being able to meet the demand for space and resources. In a relatively safe place like Kortiki, how could the population number have stagnated for so long? You basically have the same people that were there from the beginning with a few Rosic Nekos or the like that have found their way there either by dumb luck or have been escorted there by a fairy; none of them would be advised to want to or attempt to leave the town over the many years. The population would have surely exploded. If we insist on keeping populations of most settlements in Felarya to under 15,000 then there has to be a reason for it and I don't see one in Kortiki. At least in most other settlements, they are still having to deal with predators that occasionally pass through and have to be fought off. Without that though, I find it hard to believe the population level would idle for so long.

As for what keeps the order in Kortiki, as far as I can tell, the inmates run the asylum. I'm not sure how their society has managed to avoid collapse without some one or ones policing things. Just who is in charge anyway? o.o
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:32 pm

Stabs wrote:
Well, for starters...

Fairies don't exactly have an eating disorder kicking in every time they feel offended or stressed: that only happens to the older preds. Before we consider what happens if a fairy eats a citizen, maybe we should consider what happens if a fairy discharges a revolver into one, or burns 'em to ashes with lightning: it's murder. If eaten... well, they might survive, which I believe could account for why this scenario could remain a likely one even in Kortiki: it leaves it up to the fairy whether they survive or not, and assuming they were let out in the end, the fairy could get away with at most a reputation as a very unpleasant, psychotic, unstable and violently antisocial b-word. It'd be kinda like the Kortiki equivalent of beating someone to a bloody pulp. All gangsta-style.

If it were "deserved", well, maybe the fairy would feel comfortable with pushing it maybe all the way to digestion. What happens then... I wouldn't know. Best case scenario, they get away with it, and everyone gets to move on with their lives. Worst case scenario, on the other hand, well, we'll know just how much they trust each other.


Personally, Archville, I don't think it'd be necessary to mark anyone. It'd be really easy to tell apart a person from Kortiki- just by their accent and choice of words (if not threads: if you're wearing a red shirt, you're probably not from Kortiki). At least, TV has made me believe cultures and subcultures tend to form their own accents and choices of words. Now, as for friends, I think most fairies would give a human in Kortiki at least the benefit of doubt. Assuming the town itself isn't small enough for everyone to know each other, they should at least know each other's faces well enough to tell outsiders or people they've never seen before apart from the others. And in a secluded community, outsiders tend to quickly become the focus of attention. It shouldn't be hard to make friends in that situation. On the other hand, it's a safe assumption when around Kortiki that anyone who isn't an outsider might have friends in places like yours- whether you're a human or a fairy.


As for Kortiki's reputation as a safe place- I don't think it'd have much of one. People in Negav antagonize predators so much they like to hear about them getting beat up- hearing of such a place would most likely lead them to complete it with their own imaginations, unbridled by the fact that they're actually spouting rumors about the place. It's not a rumor if you don't believe it exists! And would you believe a fairy that if you got to that place she wouldn't eat you? I'd take it as a prank, myself. I agree with Cliff that it shouldn't be a regular trader with any major city- those traders that did go between Negav and Kortiki would do best to keep their mouth shut about it. At best, they won't be believed- at worst, they'll attract the wrong kind of attention. If Kortiki traded regularly with anyone, it'd be probably be those secluded settlements no one writes about until Crisis eats 'em out. Needless to say, I don't think there'd be many human or humanoid towns in the Fairy Kingdom. Maybe there's some smaller fairy communities or waystations of sorts, at most.


If Kortiki needs a reason to exist, I'd say it also needs a reason to exist even after the original reason is forgotten- something that makes it worth having. Maybe it's the beer? Maybe it's the medical care? Maybe it's the architecture? Maybe it's the variety of interesting things that keep happening? Maybe it's the interesting people they can meet without worrying about being killed in their sleep for trusting someone who secretly hates their race? Maybe it's a good place to send your friend if they don't like what you do with your other friends?


Now, maybe I'm being pretty silly on this- but we shouldn't say humans all that much. Why aren't we thinking about elves and tomthumbs in Kortiki? I'd think fairies could get along with them too, and humans have this thing where, without age, disease or predators, our population explodes immensely. What exactly is keeping Kortiki in check? What foe are they facing? Are people leaving? Did someone cast a birth control spell on the soil and you can only have children with your true love? Is the town less than 10 years old?


Here's to hoping it helps a little.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:00 pm

Quote :
If Kortiki needs a reason to exist, I'd say it also needs a reason to exist even after the original reason is forgotten- something that makes it worth having. Maybe it's the beer? Maybe it's the medical care? Maybe it's the architecture? Maybe it's the variety of interesting things that keep happening? Maybe it's the interesting people they can meet without worrying about being killed in their sleep for trusting someone who secretly hates their race? Maybe it's a good place to send your friend if they don't like what you do with your other friends?

Indeed, it would need a reason to exist to keep all the potential tension under control.

Really, I think the most likely reason boils down to two words. Emotional attachment. People who believe in the idea of coexistence (human, fairy and other), the children of humans and fairies born and raised in Kortiki, residents who are friends of other species and have a fondness for them. Those people are the reason Kortiki would continue to exist. Even the oldest, most set-in-their-ways humans and fairies in Kortiki are going to have family and/or friends who have an attachment to the town and to people of other species. That is what is going to make them work for the good of the town, even if they don't like some of the other people there. The majority of residents wanting to make it work will help keep the people on the fringes honest.

That's why I think a multi-species city council would be nice. As would measures being taken to deal with people (human, fairy or other) who get caught hurting a resident of the town. I understand Kortiki will have some element of danger. So does Negav. Getting grabbed by a fairy while walking home alone isn't really all that different from getting mugged and stabbed in the middle of Negav. There will be disappearances, and likely rumors of fairies who occasionally eat humans. You can't really do anything about that. But I do think it's important to take action against those who get caught doing it, at least to keep the humans or fairies (depending who got hurt) appeased. Kick them out of town, or maybe happen to be looking in the wrong direction when something unfortunate happens to them. Trust is a two-way street, and it will take everyone trusting everyone to keep the town alive and improving.

Also, let's be honest. Fairy parties would be crazy. Music, booze and a bunch of winged magical girls? Goodtimes.

As for population control, I think that is beginning to get into over-thinking territory. Loads more to do before that. For all we know, Kortiki could eventually become one of the biggest, most prosperous settlements in Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: Kortiki town   Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:44 am

About my idea cliff...I was just using Negav and an example...there are heavy implications that Kortiki Town isnt the ownly settlement in the Fairy Kingdom and there are settlements of Fairy towns and implications that somewhere in Sunfall Thicket are Phantom Elven Towns and other places in csuch and Karbo did tell me that he could see Kortiki have some sort of trade with them...I mearly use Negav as an example because its just somthing we all really just know as a place that does alot of trade...trade with Kortiki Town would be fairly rare in Negav...but I'd imagine there are things there that the Negavians would really love to get their hands on...

though I do like that idea of coming up with ways that the guild...or a bettter term for it (Karbo used Rangers once) ...my original version still needs tweaking of course but I might exsperiment with one of the sudjestions you said...



Anyways...I spoke to Karbo like...2 days ago or somthing about the Pixie Ball idea I had that could possibly improve the cultural side of Kortiki Town and perhaps Fairies in General...I said that my idea was that Kortiki Town was where Pixie Ball was originally made...where the humans and fairies both came up with an idea of a sport...which came to be Pixie ball...

as it's popularity grew....eventually they built some sort of small arena / Coloseum where they hold not only Pixie ball Matches...but as well as their special events, festivals...weddings...you name it...perhaps even make the area the reminants of some ancient ruins that used to be there...thought I personally like the idea of a very sureal looking arena because I'd imagine that fairies would like their buildings to be shiny...colorfull and very...well...sureal looking...though Karbo liked the idea of somthing that looks smaller out the outside...but much larger than the inside...so I thought maybe some sort of large uderground arena for that that peaks up at the surface...also a Dryad Refery living in the arena...she could boradcast the matcvhes to all the other dryads XD

Just trying to build around culture and leasure time in Felarya...since this subject is very lacking....there needs to be more Felaryan sports!...

but yeah...the reason I put this out there was to see what you think...maybe add onto it to make it better...

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