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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Clothes   Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:12 pm

This probably wont go well at all. However, I've at least wanted to try and speak up about this once. Here's hoping nobody riots.

The first thing is, that there's so much art out there already depicting many creatures naked because nobody really cares, and it allows for greater ease of movement. In addition to that, being naked isn't actually a bad thing, its just that we tend to clothe ourselves up because we get embarrassed about it- and in the wild, there's not much need or room to be embarrassed about whether you have clothes or not. It falls to a "whatever" situation, and its sort of hard to grasp if you're just a normal reader.

However, from a more academic perspective, Felarya is COLD. Think about it, it's surrounded by water everywhere, its mostly forested, we even have areas such as "Imoreith Tundra" (whether or not its an actual tundra is beside the point: its damn cold), and the Misty Glade, then there's the mountains, which get colder the higher up you get. Most of Felarya is nothing but super heavy forestation which blocks out the sun and the heat, making it very chilly under those trees. There's no room to grow cotton or raise sheep for wool, but you can make furs out of animals killed, many animals in the forest have fur (for a reason). You can also make leather as well. Its not that hard, and its a basic practice in tribal cultures.

Cloth is something to be made in more city environments like Kelerm where they'd probably have sheep, Chioita where they'd probably grow lots of plants for it, and make fur maybe, too. That island has a treaty with the preds after all. Then Negav, who can trade for it. Based on where someone is in felarya, they'd wear clothes or not.

Then there's the jungle. Since Felarya's sky is patchwork, places like the jungle aren't dependent on an equator, and the proximity of the star to the area of the planet, because the sky functions differently in each region, but mostly for the benefit of a forest. In the jungle of perils and the green hell where there's constant heat, its a jungle because that area just happens to fit the variables in the right way. Save to say it, in a Jungle EVERYONE would be naked. In africa, a lot of tribes hardly wore any clothes more than a simple loincloth. Wearing clothes added to the uncomfortable nature of it. In the desert, the clothes would be very baggy, and white, to not absorb the heat, and allow the wind to pass through. However, it'd get really cold at night though.

The basic point of this whole post though is to convince people that depending on culture and location, clothes are very important, and as this world is no longer existing purely for the sake of the fetish, we should take into consideration seriously about certain people wearing clothes depending on where they live and how.

Also of course if they have natural fur.
-Nekos probably are naturally warmer than most people, and are probably willing to wear less clothes
-Desert folk probably raise some sheep - like animal for manufacturing their clothes, so they don't get sun burned, but still have their clothes baggy and free flowing enough to keep cool
-Jungle folk probably just wear simple loincloths. I imagine the Crimson Maidens just go totally naked but with quite a few wearing some kind of loin-cloth sash from the waist down.
-Nagas DEFINITELY wear something to protect their crotch area. no arguments there.
-other creatures within the forest probably wear some kind of leather out of animal hide and tie it around their breasts and waist
-the creatures living in the Misty Glade and Imoreith would most likely wear thicker clothing since its cold all the time, most likely fur.
-Chioita I'm not sure. Maybe there's some sea plant that's leathery they can harvest, or some island plant that helps make some kind of clothes for them. Not sure. Maybe its very warm there all the time, tropical mostly, therefore they don't wear much clothes?
-Negav gets shipments, and everyone there's a prude. They all wear clothes.

So yeah. most people in felarya would probably wear very BASIC clothing, just to cover private parts, and to keep breasts from swinging wildly. lets not be total perverts here, m'kay? Lets think this through LOGICALLY before getting mad and thinking that I'm trying to take away nudity.
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:31 pm

But I like Naga va-jay-jays!!! D:

Admittingly I have often wondered this myself,
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:30 pm

Bael, Y U paranoid? Crying or Very sad We've never YOU WANNA TAKE AWAY THE NUDITYYYYYY

U BAD BRO?


What you've said isn't quite exact. If we go by "Felarya's like US big", well, the US is surrounded by water and there are places where the summer is a pain. Same with Europe and Asia. Besides, being mostly forested won't stop it from being hot: there were hot places even before deforestation started.

From a more academic perspective, though, depending on your size, you might need more or less clothes. Manskin is actually rather thin, though it can stop a bullet (well... a pellet) in some parts. Some people wear clothes not because they are cold, but to cover themselves from thorns, insects, and brambles. In those cases (which are doubly important for tomthumbs, as they live closer to the ground lol), we'd be expecting long sleeves and thick, loose clothes.

More to come later.

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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:46 pm

Felarya SHOULD be cold, yes. But as far as I've ever been able to read up, it isn't, at least in most of the jungle. This naturally could be accomplished by the sky having longer days with a closer sun wherever there's a jungle-y area.
Otherwise you generally have good points. All those chilly places would of course be... chilly.

I think the most efficient way to get clothing styles nicely weaved into the fabric of Felarya's universe would be to consider local clothing requirements in future character designs.
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:07 pm

The US also has plenty of dry areas to it, and most areas aren't completely blotting out the sun. I live next to a bunch of redwood forests, trust me when I say those forests are chilly all the time. Even in summer it never really goes up anywhere near 100 degrees. Most of the time it'd be chilly, and Nagas would want something to protect their vagina, or need I post Terra's picture? Frankly its pretty ridiculous that no one even wears a simple loin cloth.

Even if you say its hot all the time, then you still have the regular environment to deal with. At the very least you'd have something to protect your genitals, which we don't even have. I believe I gave examples of hot areas and how they wear clothing in my first post.

Anyway - most of the styles of clothing can be determined via culture and environment...
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:52 am

Okay, just for the sake of argument, Bael...

Speaking of the splinters in nagas' crotches, let's think about the splinters in their breasts, belly, neck, or face. I'll suggest there weren't because they don't use the whole body while climbing. In fact, not all snakes like crawling up trees. Some prefer burrowing and spelunking.

Let's add to that the fact that real snakes don't wear cups, nor do they have their genitalia on their backside, nor right under their neck, where they never need for it to make contact with the ground. Real snakes have their cloaca exposed right there down the middle to 3/4 along their length. It sucks for them, and I'd dare say it sucks for nagas too.

Also, just so that you know, trying to wear anything on a part of you that's supposed to drag along the ground... a loincloth won't do. A naga would need to wear a tire cutout, or some sort of gripping pad around that area not to start tripping around, assuming it does touch the surface they're sliding around. You'd be thinking more along the lines of a cross between a belt and a shoe than a loincloth.


Source: The nightmares... came from Google Images. You try googling a snake cloaca.

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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:55 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
However, from a more academic perspective, Felarya is COLD...

Not a badly reasoned argument, but also not conclusive. Felarya's laxity with regards to the laws of physics leaves us with plenty of logical ways with which to reconcile the relative coldness of the surroundings with the lack of clothing, at least for giants, if we chose to do so.

For example, consider a model human form, a rectangular prism 6 feet tall, 2 feet wide, and 1 foot deep (1.8288m x 0.6096m x 0.3048m). It has a volume of 0.3398 cubic meters and a surface area of 3.716 square meters. According to this article the average person produces about 90 watts of power, emitting most of it as heat. Assuming that our model is the same, that becomes 264.86 watts per cubic meter, and each square meter of surface area emits about 24 watts of energy.

Lets scale up our model to Elle's size; it is then 108 feet tall, 36 feet wide, and 18 feet deep (32.9m x 10.97m, x 5.48m). It has a volume of 1,981 cubic meters and at 264.86 watts per cubic meter is outputting 524,879 watts of thermal power. It has a surface area of 1,204 square meters, so each square meter is emitting 435 watts of energy, 18 times what the normal sized one is emitting. Rough calculations suggest that this would result in a surface temperature of 77 C (170 F).

TL;DR: you could almost boil water on a giant's skin.

Clearly this is absurd; we know simply from the existence of giants built like normal sized humans that the square-cube scaling problems that plague us in the real world don't entirely apply on Felarya, so it would stand to reason that giants don't actually emit as much heat as the raw calculations are suggesting. Even so, it does suggest that if we wanted to, we could have the square-cube scaling problems apply just a little bit, and end up with giants that are quite comfortable in cold weather even if stark naked... although in order to support such a heat output they'd be monsterous eaters.


TL;DR: If we want to, we can easily justify having naked giants even in cold environments.

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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:22 pm

Of course, but I would still think that the heat-size is relative, and the fact "the bigger guys" produce so much heat is of some concern to how they live. I see the number and all, but I would think that no matter how big you are, it'd still just be relevant to your size, and no matter how big you are, you'd feel cold enough to want clothes.

Besides...we're just talking about giants here. I'm including more than just them. Though once again, Fairies would be tricky...

Still, weather aside, there's plenty of other reasons to want to at least wear a little something.

We just take what we want from the square cube law so that it benefits us, and ignore the rest? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:23 pm

Before I say ANYTHING I'll say this: I approve of preds having some clothing. It's ridiculous to go around nude in world as dangerous as Felarya. Now that I've gotten the realism out of the way let me also say it's equally ridiculous to try and rationalize Felarya. *Has to resist, and hard, the urge to go into a rant on this subject and remains on the one at hand...or tries anyway* Clothes not only help our characters by providing armor but it defines them as individuals. I'll admit it's a little harder to draw but it's worth it. That's why I made a OC who makes clothes for most of my other OCs. Now onward to the comments in this thread I just have to reply to.

Quote :
Nagas DEFINITELY wear something to protect their crotch area. no arguments there.

Actually I thought this debate had been settled. Nagas have protective plates that cover their crotches until they become aroused or need to whiz. I use this rule. I actually like it better. The Vagina being so exposed is only for erotic art purposes and shouldn't be taken seriously says I.

Quote :
Desert folk probably raise some sheep - like animal for manufacturing their clothes, so they don't get sun burned, but still have their clothes baggy and free flowing enough to keep cool

I like this idea, but Felarya doesn't have anything like sheep or even cattle really. I think somebody should make some large, possibly man eating, sheep or cow creatures to solve this problem.

Quote :
-Chioita I'm not sure. Maybe there's some sea plant that's leathery they can harvest, or some island plant that helps make some kind of clothes for them. Not sure. Maybe its very warm there all the time, tropical mostly, therefore they don't wear much clothes?

The people of Chiotia MAKE clothes for the predators from boat hauls, nets and other junk. Is that not stated in the wiki? If not just look at Tora044's gallery. He has the mosat Krait nagas of anyone I know and is like an expert on them. All of his characters are clothes but maybe one he dropped and stopped using a while back.

[/quote]
I live next to a bunch of redwood forests, trust me when I say those forests are chilly all the time.
Quote :


Ah there's something in science that explains why some heavily forested areas are colder and others are warm. It's like this.Coniferous trees don't hold in as much heat as Deciduous trees or something. It has soemething to do with the jungle being so thick and layered combined with it's proximity to the Equator.


Lets scale up our model to Elle's size; it is then 108 feet tall, 36 feet wide, and 18 feet deep (32.9m x 10.97m, x 5.48m). It has a volume of 1,981 cubic meters and at 264.86 watts per cubic meter is outputting 524,879 watts of thermal power[quote]

Yay somebody else remembers Elle and mentions her. ^_^ You gets a cookie! Also dang man you're good at measurements! @-@ All that data confuses me as to how you came up with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:57 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Of course, but I would still think that the heat-size is relative, and the fact "the bigger guys" produce so much heat is of some concern to how they live. I see the number and all, but I would think that no matter how big you are, it'd still just be relevant to your size, and no matter how big you are, you'd feel cold enough to want clothes.
In reality, the bigger a mammal you are the more heat you produce in total, but you have proportantely less skin area to get rid of that heat; it's part of the reason elephants and the various large whales don't die from exposure. This same effect is also part of the reason why shrews and other small mammals have to eat so much; they have too much surface area relative to their volume and so must burn lots of calories to keep warm. So if the square-cube law applies fully to Felaryan giant creatures, they'd never feel cold and in fact would probably be most comfortable standing naked in the artic areas of the planet.

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Besides...we're just talking about giants here. I'm including more than just them. Though once again, Fairies would be tricky...
In terms of heat dissipation Nagas (at least those that are mammals) have it even worse than giants; while I haven't done the calculations it wouldn't surprise me at all if their skin temperature was high enough to light stuff on fire (their long tail is to blame; lots of volume and minimal surface area). Faries are, as you pointed out, quite tricky, and exactly what happens with them depends precisley on how their scaling ability works; various possibilities include tiny faries warmer than red-hot steel, to giant fairies that are always at the ambient temperature. Also affected are the various tinies who should be wearing thick clothes even in the jungle and be eating tons of food at every meal.


Of course this is all assuming the square-cube problem applies in full; as we have seen this presents us with absurdities and so we clearly won't let its effect occur fully.


Archmage_Bael wrote:
We just take what we want from the square cube law so that it benefits us, and ignore the rest? Razz
Of course; that's the nice thing about fictional places is that we can make up the rules to suit us, and they don't even have to be consistent. Smile

I have no thoughts on the other reasons why giants would wear clothes at the moment; I just wanted to point out that if we wanted we could justify naked giants easily.

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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:23 pm

Exactly, and well stated Oldman. If we could, then we should if it benefits Felarya. As I originally stated, Felarya is more than just a fetish place now. Clothes were one example of things that other normal fantasy universes have that we don't really utilize.

I'm not sure if it should be something mentioned in the wiki somehow though, as I'm not sure how we would cover it without sounding like we're using it as an excuse, even though its more realistic (which is a nice excuse).

Though I still think that for the sake of convenience, the use of clothes over breasts and genitals for male or female would prevent breasts or the penis from flopping about wildly would be actually a convenient reason to clothe those areas. Would they rather ignore the heat problem and prevent their sensitive areas from flopping around, or would they not care? If its just for the sake of preventing their stuff from flopping wildly, it'd be amusing to see a female pred who's put some cloth or animal hide around their breasts, but not their nether regions purely because one flops in the wind and the other doesn't. angel

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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:10 pm

Going back to this, I do kind of think it's odd how many would argue that Felarya is very warm. If Felarya is indeed warm, then the humans don't appear to be aware of it, judging by how many of them feel the requirement to build a camp fire come nightful.

Granted there could be other reasons why some adventurers would feel the need of a campfire (even though they are advertising themselves to any nearby predators) but alot of the time it really does seem to be for the warmth that they are apprantly lacking
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:02 pm

DarkOne wrote:
Going back to this, I do kind of think it's odd how many would argue that Felarya is very warm. If Felarya is indeed warm, then the humans don't appear to be aware of it, judging by how many of them feel the requirement to build a camp fire come nightful.

Granted there could be other reasons why some adventurers would feel the need of a campfire (even though they are advertising themselves to any nearby predators) but alot of the time it really does seem to be for the warmth that they are apprantly lacking

Or to provide a easy meal in a vore themed setting, especially in stories =P
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:57 pm

DarkOne wrote:
Going back to this, I do kind of think it's odd how many would argue that Felarya is very warm. If Felarya is indeed warm, then the humans don't appear to be aware of it, judging by how many of them feel the requirement to build a camp fire come nightful.

Granted there could be other reasons why some adventurers would feel the need of a campfire (even though they are advertising themselves to any nearby predators) but alot of the time it really does seem to be for the warmth that they are apprantly lacking

It is a also a psychological thing. Fire is light and light drives away darkness. Human minds paralyzed by fear don't often reason that a fire will attract unwanted creatures. Though to be fair most off worlders don't realize just what "unwanted" creatures are like in Felarya. ^_^;
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:17 pm

Many jungles also have night temperatures around 60-70 degrees fahrenheit. While this isn't exactly "cold", it also can be a fair bit uncomfortable: How many people here keep their rooms around that temperature? This can be as far as 10-15į cooler than many people keep their houses.

Plus, for the most part, Felarya is populated by unintelligent animals. Big as they may be, they fear fire. Kensha Beasts don't like having flaming brands shoved in their faces (mind, it's a fair deal harder to do this when you need a ladder).
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:47 am

I suppose one other reason to utilise clothing is not always about modesty or protection, but rather about displays. Many animals use inanimate objects for displaying things like creativity/attract a mate/display their social status. Birds are most commonly associated with this trait by constructing elaborate nests. Humans actually first started wearing things like jewelry to display themselves socially as desirable mates or to intimidate would-be-userpers. Not everything needs to be about function afterall Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:36 pm

I do have to say though, while seeing naked preds is pretty cool, there has to be something said about the attractiveness of a gaint pred that wears at least a little clothing. I don't know if it's because it's a rare sight or if it's because it leaves more to the imagination, but seeing the odd predator in clothing is pretty sexy.

Like this drawing by Blazbaros Here. Anna wearing nothing but a shirt is kinda an attractive look for a Naga, it complements the tail.
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PostSubject: Re: Clothes   Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:24 pm

Well, the "feel naked, must wear clothing" thing I would say is indicative of intelligence at the very least. So yeah I agree, but then again - I started this thread afterall XD
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