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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Industry   Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:18 pm

Alright, so we've established on a few occasions that industry exists in the form of shops, maybe a newspaper in negav or another city, some kind of news industry, fighting and sports would be big, mining, crafting, hunting, but what about the others? No, I'm not talking clothes. Possibly those, depending how people take that thread.

Though personally I'm quite interested in the LOGGING industry since there's so many damn trees around, they'd be used somehow. These trees are BIG, as in, some require mining- big. Someone raised the point of tree-mining, and I think that was Anime-Junkie or Silent_Eric, but I'm not sure.

Why don't we use this thread to iron out the kinks of industry. We could make a separate area in the Science and Magic, or Culture and Customs part of the wiki for various industries that exist not just for humans and cities and such, but for anyone at all. Sound like a plan? That'd certainly flesh out Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:10 pm

I guess what they would do is what we do when we mine non-foliated metamorphic rock like marble, which is to simply cut it in huge blocks. So they might use huge mobile saw machines simular to this one that you'd normaly use for rock cutting.



Best put a sound dampening spell on it though if your nowhere near the saftey of the The Isolon Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:48 pm

It was Oldman, Bael, who brought up you could mine trees like we were in a RTS. However, wood is notoriously difficult to mine; it's not brittle like stone, and it's also monolithic.
I'd rather say people go after fallen trees, hack off the branches, and make off with the wood for later use.



Now as for the rest... well...
Stone working is the easiest. All you need is a rock, and another, harder rock- there's no need to overcomplicate it. Once you get that far, you can probably figure out the rest.
Working with bone is a bit tougher. As many predators eat their prey whole and don't have any great incentive to kill anything else or poke dead animals with a stick, well... necessity will be invention's mama here. You'll need macropredators to figure out bone, hide and sinew have their uses. What I mean by macropredators is... things that chew. Also, nexoculas are a problem.
Vegetable fibers aren't hard to figure out, but whether they can be worked on or not will depend on their scale relative to the would-be weaver.
Minerals might be a problem. Felarya's got lots of gems, which are themselves sorted aside, but I don't remember any iron or copper deposits pointed out. There are plenty of rocks, though I already covered that.
Magic might've had an impact on all those developments, too, but I cannot quantify it. Besides, we'd end up making another crappy environmentalist plot about how power corrupts and industry corrupts and ZOMG TEH MAGICAL NUCLEAR PETROL IS THE CORPUS OF CHRIST!



The possibilities of the chemical industry are innumerable, and I won't even bother.

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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:27 pm

One big industry would be the production of magical goods, not as in small time shops having werid trinkets and such like you normaly see in felarya stories, but big brand companies that design and produce popular magical items. There surely would be members in the Magiocrat high council that would be top executives in this area, bringing quite alot of wealth to those who run the city
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:39 pm

Close to the city, within the effect of the Isolon Eye, I'm led to believe the trees are smaller, so the logging industry is probably pretty unremarkable there.
Out in the fringe though, it'd require a large-scale logging operation with enormous industrial equipment to cut any large tree at the trunk. With the significant capital investment necessary and the dangers involved, I think it would be more efficient in most cases to just lop off large branches. Felarya's jungle is big enough (and most likely grows fast enough) that such a practice could probably sustain a well-managed city's needs indefinitely.

That came out so incoherent... I hope it was constructive xP
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Don't forget with logging, at least when it came to the larger trees, people created cushions for the trees to land in by digging up and loosening the soil. Especially with Sequoias, which are thick and splinter very easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:36 pm

Finding abandoned Dridder territory (Giant Dridder especially) would be paydirt, considering how much silk tends to go for and the fact that you're looking at what may very well amount to entire wardrobes worth of the stuff. Felarya Dridder-silk also seems to be magically tough / resilient, which would further increase its value. Even if it couldn't be repurposed for personal armour / exotic outfits, it'd work very well for lines, ropes, fastening, etcetera. Provided you had a mean of carefully gathering and bundling the stuff, you'd be fairly set in terms of money / making a living.

Something else worth keeping in mind about Felarya's economy is that there's a very big difference in most fields between what sells good in Felarya, and what sells good outside Felarya (as a number of powers do import and export for trade).
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:00 pm

Oh, hey Malahite Smile That's a good point, since Dridder territory is right south of Negav. I imagine you could make an interesting industrial idea out of that.

I think selling stuff from Felarya to outside worlds is also a very good point, and since there is so much trade going on already, that makes coming up with these ideas to all the more important to fleshing out the world.

Here's gonna be an attempt at posting ideas myself. I'm going to start with logging, but hopefully some other people can come up with good ideas for industry and post them here as well. Like I said earlier, I think officially including this stuff in Canon will make the world seem more full.

I'm not sure how exactly to write this out, and what to include...so anybody please critique and give advice if you have any Smile

Logging Camps

Logging camps are areas situated in the immediate area around Negav, some of which are located across the river or on the backside of the city closer to the Negav Gate. Despite the size of the city there are less of these than one would expect due to the masonry-centric building style of Negav. Wood is still used for supports in buildings, but more often for furniture, toys, baskets, brooms, and other such things.

The loggers usually live in a small group of buildings for their living quarters, a rather large building where blocks of wood are kept, an area where it's processed into planks, beams, or anything else specifically required. Most logging camps are more actual permanent settlements within or near Negav's Isolon Eye. In the event they must travel outside the safety zone, Loggers are also trained how to fight with any number of equipment to the favor of their own style. For this reason Loggers get a surprisingly handsome wage due to the importance of wood, and the danger they put themselves in.

Before Negav was so big and successful, simple devices were built out of ores that were smelted into reinforced tools that included a thick, curving metal shield with a slit through the center and a handle and crank for a powerful saw used to cut chunks out of the tree bit by bit. The crank would make the saw go back and forth rapidly for the ease of cutting. The trees were thick and the wood was dense, but the saws used were still effective.

Now in the current days, the saws are more refined, including different levers and joints so that the saw could be transformed into a couple different forms that would suit the wielder more. Diamonds are also used now in the creation of the sharp blades, making them extremely durable and sharp. Diamonds in Felarya are often used to create these blades, sometimes reinforced Obsidian would be sharped as well.

The body of the crank-saw has also been refined as well, as they are now made from more high-grade ores than simple iron or steel. A lot of them will be made in a material that can be used to enchant the saws as well, further increasing cutting power and durability.

To cut trees the employees wield specific body harnesses with grapples and will attach themselves to the trees and cut in certain areas among the thicker trees that are too big and too thick to fell over. In the instance of cutting a tree down, a lot of preparation is used to soften the land where the tree would fall to prevent the tree from shattering into splinters. This would be the longest part of the process, but any tree over four hundred feet tall must be mined in blocks.

Each tree takes an incredibly long time to process, so trees in Felarya are rarely cut down at any given time due to the sheer amount of lumber they provide. In the event of replanting trees, this act will keep loggers in one specific part of the forest, handling trees that are of much easier size to manage than the behemoths that tower up to hundreds of feet and beyond.

Trees that contain properties like the Battal Oak's legendary durability, when found, are split between being sold both outside and inside Felarya, and these trees rake in tons of money if they can be retrieved.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:09 pm

I was thinking of making a company of safe-burning products, basically everlasting candles, torches, lamps, things like that. I think it'd be a terrible business model, though (along the lines of Stride gum commercials), so I don't know if that'd really work, or if there'd even be a market for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:51 pm

In theory, an ever-burning light would be fairly possible in Felarya. Of course, what you need to look out for is the production methods which took shortcuts, like Fire Elementals bound inside glass prisms. Works fine as a permanent lamp... so long as the glass doesn't shatter.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:29 pm

I think some form of film industry would be quite profitable in Negav, I don't Cinemas would be too out of place in the city. The concept of a film projector is nothing new, the first cinemas came out in the mid 1890s when they were built as part of a larger complex, the first all purpose cinemas came out in the 1900s, some which were so popular that they have survied to this day.

I could imagine horror films being a popular genre, they would have their own version of 'Attack of the 50 Foot Woman' XD

actually if you think about it, films that show humans eventually becoming victorious over gaints and other felarya like dangers would greatly boost the morale of the city and in some cases act as an educational tool.

For example, during the world wars cinema was greatly used to motivate the people, such as this rather satirical Disney classic XD

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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:01 pm

I dunno about film, but there is a news industry. I'm not sure how it'd work though, how much paper Negav would use. I guess that's one more reason logging would be useful, but there might also be signs throughout Negav that are connected to each other. The signs might change their words from time to time to tell current events. Or that film industry could be used to make news broadcasts, but how would we make a TV? They'd be too expensive.

I've often thought of a large stone slab that has runes engraved around the edges, and it acts as a sort of TV, showing high quality films/news/whatever. I'm not sure about the details, and I'm too lazy to think them up right now.

Industry I imagine would be a definite:
-News
-Collection of various raw materials: wood, ore, minerals,
-Manufacturing of these materials in various ways
-Supplying water (power would be complicated though. I can't see power plants really)
-Taxing and ownership would be within the government I'm sure

Industries like mining and logging normally sell them to a place where they're processed, but due to limited space in Negav, the processing plants are probably next to or joined with the mines and logging camps. Farming would be all but impossible unless Negav implements "Vertical Farming" somehow.

Hunting would be big I imagine, and meat processing plants would be seldom seen though, I think they'd just be very big, and very busy.
----

What else am I missing for industry? I mentioned water, power, food, construction, provision of ores and lumber, manufacturing, possibly a Trade-Union (aside from government tax and ownership businesses)

Secondary would be all other things such as News, filming, other media that I can't think of, research would (sadly, I think) go into secondary, provision of services might fit here as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:18 pm

Well I'll still think a form of film industry would still exist, even if it's not a high prioty over others things, Negav is afterall a trade hub built upon many industries and is a place that many people have made their home, people that have lives and do things. It's not just a fort that revolves around nothing but mages, soilders and adventurers.

As for news broadcasts, well if Negav is too poor for an device that was affordable for the wealthy almost a century ago (though I ask why as they can afford modern weapony) then the news could be broaadcasted in cinemas like they used to do.


Last edited by DarkOne on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:43 pm

Well Negav can't manufacture modern and futuristic guns, TVs, computers and the like. They don't have the resources either to build and maintain a properly functioning power plant. Modern and futuristic devices would have to be traded for, as it is after all a trade hub. Plus, when magic is available technology would progress in a different way than our own.

I imagine people would go to Negav and film if they're from a more technologically advanced place, but things like a video recorder and a tv would be extremely rare and expensive. Think of modern guns, TVs, and even computers to be exotic technology most citizens have never even seen, or possibly heard of. Negav's basic technology level would probably be that of the 17th century, mixed with magic.

For entertainment people would go outside and play games, gamble, socialize at the local pub, take a walk in the park with some friends, not sit around and do what we do all day. Razz

News would travel orally, bartenders would be the centers of news, and you'd go to pubs to find all the latest dirt and info. That's what it was like, and that's what Negav is closer to; a grittier, darker, less educated place where technology does exist, but is incredibly hard to get a hold of. Since on one side you have this environment, and on the other side you have more educated, wealthy, and technologically advanced place because those are the people who can afford guns and gizmos.

I don't know if the other people who are well educated about Felarya agree with me here, like Karbo, Stabs, Nyaha, Malahite, Oldman, Shady, and so on. This is how I see it though.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:52 pm

Why would Negav have to manfacture the stuff themselves? I was under the impression that Negav is connected to many other worlds, who they have business connections and have things brought over. Surely it be no different than our televisons sets coming from China.

I've never been sure what to make of Negav, because people say it's a place hard to get tech one moment, but saying it's a world that trades with others the next. It's also a world that has things that others don't, surely many wealthy people from other places will come for the healing powers alone? These people start spending, the next thing you know, Negav has captial and can invest in things, like offworld companies and makes deals.



Last edited by DarkOne on Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:06 pm

Why would Negav manufacture stuff? I think you have the wrong idea that just because they have an ascarlin mine they can just buy everything for themselves and not produce it. This is not how it works. I suggest an understanding of economics.

First of all, ascarlin is not infinite, and second of all, if you want your citizens to have money to buy goods they need to hold jobs, which benefit society. Industry in Negav would offer the biggest job yield, because they need people for security, gathering resources, and processing those resources. Traders and Innkeepers, bartenders, vendors are mostly just individual salesmen, sometimes if a trader gets to be successful enough they will be able to have a shop of their own with an employee or two or three instead of doing it all themselves. In fact, there's probably tons of people in Negav that make their own trinkets from resources they either gather themselves or get enough money to buy, and either way are barely profitable enough. For this reason most people in Negav are too concerned with day to day survival to make enough money to get adventuring gear and look for riches.

tl;dr - So basically Negav makes their own goods so their economy doesn't collapse.
---------
edit: Anyway, instead of discussing how Negav's economy works I suggest coming up with ideas to expand on Negav's industry, or even DRIDDER industry. The species out there with their own civilization would have some kind of industry as well. After all, because of industry a city or town can flourish. Even the simple gathering of resources, however slight, is an industry in and of itself.

Of course Dridders in the wiki already have a culture that talks about art, metalworking, and architecture. In that way they're probably pretty good, but if there's any way to describe maybe how lower class Dridders gather/produce resources for the artisans, sculptors, higher class, etc that would also be interesting.

In that respect I think Dridder Culture is greater than Negav's which just has a bunch of buildings listed in the wiki and imply certain things like their attitude and libraries, temples, a university, the arena etcetera. There's nothing about actual industry though. How people make their living, the different jobs people have in different social classes, artisans, etcetera.

As a side thought, would we accentuate lower, middle, and upper class more? Centuries ago people who had difficult jobs like being a Ship Master, or a Knight/Soldier would be honored. Officers and shipmen would be next to noble class, and lower class people had hard industrial work, middle class were people like inn and shopkeepers. I think that'd also be an interesting distinction in Negav, in addition to Industry.

It'd also help bring us closer to figure out how Negav Politics work. Which is something we've been trying to do for a while now.


Last edited by Archmage_Bael on Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:23 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I had a lot more on my mind, and didn't want to double-post.)
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:48 pm

yes but keep in mind that trade also means people coming over to set up businesses as well, and other worlds would invest in Negav for certain benifits. That's how many places get to the developed state they are in now. Take Japan, I don't think it would be the world power it is today if it never decided to trade with richer places, it was amazingly effective in helping japan recover after two atom bombs were dropped on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:09 pm

Japan buys resources, then turns it into something more high tech, and sells it for a profit. Negav can't do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:42 pm

Yeah, but that's Japan now. I am talking about how fast Japan rised due to trade in the past.

I am not so intrested in Negav in having tv as much as something like a cinema, but if I was to think how it would be done if it was possible, I'd say it would proberly be more an wishfullment artifact than an televison per say, a magical mirror or something that creates stories for the viewer's amusment based on their deep inner desires. Something like that will proberly be more engaging than a television anyway, proberly very addictive as well XD
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PostSubject: Re: Industry   Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:45 pm

You know what the inclusion of a logging industry would do for Felarya? It would an excuse to include this song in a Felarya plot

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