Ressurrection

I just heard that Karbo said resurrection of a soul that died in Felarya is not possible, whether it's attempted on Felarya or on another world, but that he didn't give a good reason why this is. So, want to fix that, Karbo, if haven't come up with a good reason already. Because we have a good setting here where things don't just happen unexplained if we can help it. >.< Do you have an idea, Karbo, or do we need to come up with something here?

Don't get me wrong, I like that resurrection is something that can't happen where Felarya is concerned, making death a good consequence, but we have a "hard fiction" setting, I think it's called, so we need to have explanations for these kinds of things.

Also, this is just what I've heard so if it's wrong, sorry for the fuss. But damn if the info isn't hard to find if there is already an explanation. >.<

I'm just gonna go ahead and say this, because Karbo is currently swamped right now with work, thanks to bullshit circumstances. He wont be available for a little. If we want a reason, for now, we'll have to figure it out on our own

well there is a heaven and hell in Felarya, so perhaps it's tied to those worlds? Mabye once the deceased pass on to Felarya afterlife there is no coming back

There are ghosts in felarya though. Maybe it has something to do with the soul's connection to the body. The soul maybe connects to one body only, so once the original body is "deceased" the soul cant just reform a new body, get in someone else's or whatever because it'd be like an invalid connection. you either linger around in felarya, or go to heaven. I assume if you linger around as a ghost there might be magic you could learn to make your soul seem like a physical body - but if that is "eaten" much how Vivian did to Mystiniel, then the soul would be gone, and you'd cease to exist at all. (That's pretty horrid.)

I have a slightly different theory concerning resurrection.

I know of only two reasons why a soul can't be resurrected.

A) The soul has been destroyed, like with what Vivian did to Mystiniel

or

B) The soul is bound to or trapped in/by something.

Since Felarya doesn't automatically destroy the soul it is more then likely bound. However, I don't think it's bound to the body because if a person left Felarya and died, they could still be resurrected. Instead, I think it is bound to Felarya itself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone who comes to Felarya gains a sort of magical aura. This aura could actually be connecting the soul to Felarya itself, and when a person dies their soul becomes connected to and trapped in Felarya. Even when the soul goes to Heaven and Hell, it could be that a part of the soul is connected to Felarya, effectively "trapping" it and making it impossible to resurrect the person, no matter where they are.

Of course, if my theory makes sense and is correct, then theoretically if you managed to get rid of the magical aura that you get when you enter Felarya you could be resurrected somewhere else.

I was thinking about the soil myself. The magic it exerts wouldn't bind the soil to Felarya, otherwise the soul would be incapable of entering Heaven or Hell. Remember that Heaven and Hell are both separate from Felarya, even if it's linked to the place.

I'd say the soil has something to do with it though - it boosts immune systems, and regenerative properties, but I don't think it "binds" anything. I would say the soil's magic would slowly be imbued into the body, and that magic in your being maybe forms some sort of magical ID link between the two, and once someone's eaten, that link is gone, and they cant get it back since the other half isn't there anymore. Or something like that. Its hard to remember what I thought 2 hours ago during rehearsal. I always think of this stuff at the wrong time.

From what little I recall of earlier Felarya discussions:

+ Felarya tries to play keepsies with the souls of those who die there. Unless you're from a Universe wherein Death personally comes for you / a spot in the afterlife is promised (ex: Felarya can't say squat to Discworld Death or someone who has Valkyries coming for them), you're snatched up by the local Heaven / Hell analogy which might be tweaked slightly for consistency's sake (Ex: If your perceived hell is cold, you're thrown to a chillier section).

+ Felarya's Heaven / Hell Analogies are very keen on keeping whatever souls they can, especially since it's theorized that the residents (Angel and Demon alike) eventually intend to nom you for fun. In Hell this seems to be a temporary setback as you're re-made to be eaten again later, but in the end it's unknown whether such can destroy one's soul, bind you to what ate you, or so-on (and, if so, would handily explain why those who die in Felarya cannot come back with anything short of a Guardian Universal Retcon-level event).

+ Ghosts are those who have avoided detection by Felarya's native "harvesters" / whatever class of Angel or Demon comes to take you to the afterlife. The reason many tend to come to enjoy stuff like Vore is that they're essentially raw spirit / essence exposed to Felarya's nature. Without the mind, body, and so-on to help repel / fight off such things, it basically comes down to a metaphysical resistance, and unsurprisingly most mortals are very poorly suited at developing a defense for something they practically never need (Ex: When's the last time you, as a poster, had to defend yourself from a metaphysical goading?). Generally Ghosts try to make a quiet living as being discovered by an Angel or Demon leads to the whole "Eternity of being nommed" thing.

+ Necromancy does not work on Felarya, period. Generally the raising of the dead falls under Necromancy, even if there is an argument for Restoration as well. Either way, this explains why a mortal cannot revive others in Felarya: Your magic does not work. Arguably this "2 + 2 = Chair" effect is also applied to the spirits of those who have died in Felarya: Even if you remove someone from the realm, the same rules apply and thus you cannot bring them back to life without some very powerful juju backing you up.

Thus, summed up: The Felaryan afterlife likes to play keepsies, and between all the metaphysical stuff there and rules about Necromancy you probably won't come back to life without Divine or Demi-Divine intervention. The best you can probably hope for is being a Ghost / possessing custom-made vessels, but even then you're not truly alive and you're going to be much more susceptible to Felarya's corrupting nature than most mortals (meaning don't be surprised if the friend you let possess a near-dead Kensha Beast starts eating rival Elves / Humans / Nekos / Whatever's whole and looks to get their jollies rocked in the effort).

Another point to bear in mind is that since Felarya is connected to a multitude of alternate universes, its own laws of physics regarding what happens in the afterlife could be variable and unpredictable. As far as we know, ANYTHING could happen. Maybe the soul is trapped right where it is, maybe its immediately drawn to one of a million alternate dimensions, maybe the other-worldly powers in play utterly destroy it on the spot. Who's to say?

I just thought, but its probably a bad idea, that souls don't come back in the afterlife, because if the person (in heaven) starts being sinful/unruly/"a bad person no longer suited for heaven" getting eaten by an angel will send you to hell, and the reverse would also be true: being in hell, and repenting, becoming a good person because you genuinely feel that way - getting digested by a succubus will send you to heaven.

I guess I was inspired by bleach a little though, since a Soul Reaper's Zanpaktou "purifies" a hollow, letting the soul pass on into the soul society, and of course hollows have numerous ways to bring a soul to Hueco Mundo as well (not willing to spend the time listing all of them for no reason.

The whole "afterlife rotation" thing is a fascinating concept, I find.

Afterlife rotation isn't the case, at least with Hell. Succubi and the like have been known to eat the same person multiple times in short order, so if there is such a rotation it would have a very quick cycling rate.

In that case, it's not like it has to be a necessary thing. Maybe it has to be like, a certain spell or ceremony performed before a soul is eaten for that soul to be transferred. That way they can save the concept of rotation for only those individuals who truly strive to better (or worsen) themselves. :33

Malahite wrote:

Afterlife rotation isn't the case, at least with Hell. Succubi and the like have been known to eat the same person multiple times in short order, so if there is such a rotation it would have a very quick cycling rate.

Well, getting rotated from afterlife to afterlife would be dependent on certain variables, not just rotated whenever they're eaten.

I have 2 possible explanations, depending on whether you're interested in the actual reason or the given reason for the world of Felarya.

After Death the souls get collected by angels and demons and are sent to their respective realm. Since they are kind of greedy they take every soul and dont let it go back without a reason. Also, since the body gets digested, there's no way of sending the soul back into their body. Once the soul enters heaven or hell, its bount there by unimaginable force, since angels and demons alike want to have souls there for their own survival as they feed on positive/negative thoughts and feelings. You could say they keep the dead souls there as a food source and protect their livestock from being taken away. Since the powers of angels and demons are near infinite in their own realm, the possibility of forcibly stealing a soul from heaven or hell is pretty hard and has rarely if not never been achieved so far unless there has been a plain all out war between heaven and hell where angels and demons alike would try to exterminate or steal the dead souls in order to decrease their enemies powers. But even then, if you'd get back the soul, there would be the need of a proper body. since Felarya doesnt know necromancy, a plain dead zombie body wouldnt work and it is unknown if one would be able to bind a soul to an item. There probablky is a way to do that, but we wouldnt know it as necromancy, more as posession.

As far as I know the kind of real reason why there's no known resurrection is because Karbo prefers vore to be fatal and he doesnt want the vorarephiles who like to be vore-prey to feed themselves to the preds the whole time. If there was resurrection, we'd have tons of characters who are able to reform after being pooped out and/or even make it a hobby to get eaten. Even if not directly thought of, the possibility of reformation would make the whole setting where everything can kill you kind of redundant. Felarya is supposed to be a super-hostile world where everything eats you. If you could reform, that danger would decrease rapidly. So the reason is because Karbo and some Felaryans prefers fatal vore over non-fatal vore and they want Felarya to be hostile. So if you actually LIKE the concept of vore, you'd need to die first, then go to heaven and have the angels there eat you over and over again THERE, because reforming only seems to work in heaven & hell. The latter would probably work as well, but I doubt the succubi and demons would make it pleasurable for the food-person in question.

Okay sorry if this has been brought up before but this has been driving me up a wall. What about resurrection in relation to healing spells? IE: Bringing some one's soul back before they've been taken to the afterlife? Isn't that like a minor revival? It's not lie you can bring somebody who's been gone for 1,000 years back. More like how the Mord'Sith could use the Breath of Life within thirty minutes of somebody dying but after that it wouldn't work. I think that there should be a way to do that. Even the most balanced magic systems in media follow some form of this so why not Felarya?

I really like both Amaroq's suggestions. They're both really good reasons, I think. ^_^ Make it canon, Number One!

Jedi's suggestion also seems pretty fair, for non-vore related deaths. :33

Nyaha wrote:

I really like both Amaroq's suggestions. They're both really good reasons, I think. ^_^ Make it canon, Number One!

Lang-Zi says- Not so fast!

Amaroq wrote:

You could say they keep the dead souls there as a food source and protect their livestock from being taken away. Since the powers of angels and demons are near infinite in their own realm, the possibility of forcibly stealing a soul from heaven or hell is pretty hard and has rarely if not never been achieved so far unless there has been a plain all out war between heaven and hell where angels and demons alike would try to exterminate or steal the dead souls in order to decrease their enemies powers.

Impossibru. There's canon that has had souls, fiends, and just about anything else taken from Hell. Besides, we know stealing a soul isn't beyond the ability of the late Broken Hill shamans. Why should it be beyond the ability of the usual reviver?

Amaroq wrote:

But even then, if you'd get back the soul, there would be the need of a proper body. since Felarya doesnt know necromancy, a plain dead zombie body wouldnt work and it is unknown if one would be able to bind a soul to an item. There probably is a way to do that, but we wouldnt know it as necromancy, more as posession.

Sonya and Tanya approve.

Nyaha wrote:

Jedi's suggestion also seems pretty fair, for non-vore related deaths. :33

If you look at it differently, though, it allows for people with enough resources to circumvent death as long as they didn't get eaten. A lot of people in the wiki, who probably had every resource available to them, died without getting eaten.
Then again, we'd need to define what you consider dying. If we're talking merely a naturally irreversible halting of bodily functions, then ghost elves can pull it off- somehow. I had my own ideas on how, but I know which ones of my ideas have a chance; this one doesn't. If we're talking about stuff stopping because your brain got splattered against a wall, I wouldn't buy a reversion of that condition without time-travel (a la Chrono Trigger), which I think might even give nom-noms a redo.
If it's because your blood pressure dropped 'cause you just dropped all your blood... well, I think you CAN survive without that wonderful oxygen getting to your cells for up to 2 minutes before you die. Some sort of massive buff plugging all your leaks and getting your B.P. to rise back before that time limit elapses might be believable... but I'd expect the lucky mofo to get a blood infection afterwards, and only survive for long enough to have one last dramatic scene (unless it was meant to show they be so badass as to can lose gallons of blood and ROCK ON LIKE A BOSS). Even if they survive, that was Red Scharlach's origin story.

@ Stabs: Screw you, I already said it was RARE, if not impossible, so stop complaining, just because one of your fan made characters can do it or whatever. Theres a reason why I said RARE, so my point is still valid. Especcially since this is NOT about some fiends being taken away from hell, this was about SOULS being taken and brought back to life. So whatever you say was not even discussed! But oh, i forgot, in this forum you just HAVE to disagree, because otherwise it wouldnt be the felaryan one... I havent posted for like 6 months because of this b*llsh*t and then I write ONE post and again "oh noez, your idea is totally impossible because XY which has nothing to do with the stuff ama said but oh well...". My points are still valid and not Impossibru in perfectly false japanglish, PLEASE do me a favor and READ before Disagreeing with me.

First: Amaroq, chill.

I have something to say, too:

Amaroq wrote:

You could say they keep the dead souls there as a food source and protect their livestock from being taken away. Since the powers of angels and demons are near infinite in their own realm, the possibility of forcibly stealing a soul from heaven or hell is pretty hard and has rarely if not never been achieved so far unless there has been a plain all out war between heaven and hell where angels and demons alike would try to exterminate or steal the dead souls in order to decrease their enemies powers.

and followed also by

Stabs wrote:

Impossibru. There's canon that has had souls, fiends, and just about anything else taken from Hell. Besides, we know stealing a soul isn't beyond the ability of the late Broken Hill shamans. Why should it be beyond the ability of the usual reviver?

I wasn't aware of any canon that has had souls, fiends, and whatever else taken from hell in the first place. Where is this located?

Second, the only war we know of is the tenebris war, which probably didn't involve souls being taken from either heaven or hell

Third, I don't think it'd be possible to take a soul from heaven or hell. I think it'd be divinely impossible. Unless you somehow change from being a good or bad person while in the afterlife, which would negate the point of it being an afterlife, because its implied that once there, you do not change. you're always that person you were. Unless of course Felaryan afterlife is different, in which case they're still stuck in heaven or hell.

So I'm afraid neither of your points are valid. Amaroq, I don't think its possible, and Stabs, I have no idea where you're getting that info. It doesn't state in Heaven or Hell that souls are taken from each other. Thats all just wild speculation.

However, you did make a couple good explanations, even so.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

Third, I don't think it'd be possible to take a soul from heaven or hell. I think it'd be divinely impossible.[...]
So I'm afraid neither of your points are valid. Amaroq, I don't think its possible, and Stabs, I have no idea where you're getting that info. It doesn't state in Heaven or Hell that souls are taken from each other. Thats all just wild speculation.

However, you did make a couple good explanations, even so.

You didnt read my post either.

Quote :

the possibility of forcibly stealing a soul from heaven or hell is pretty hard and has rarely if not never been achieved so far

FUCKING READ. I said it was pretty much impossible for maybe (!) a few circumstances.

Right. Not just hard though. Since shamans dont steal souls. I don't know why they are, they're diviners - communicating with the ether realms. Not "in ur base stealin ur doods."

Anyway, then you're right Ama.

DarkOne: that's why we have limbo, I believe. It's for those whom belong in neither. Its also why video gamers always choose either the dark side or the light side, because being neutral never gives any stat boosts

If your soul can't change once the person has died, what happens to someone if they are neither good or evil but perfectly moraly grey? I know angels and demons go into conflict for this person, but since the wiki never established what this conflicted involved I always assumed they fought to influance the person to tip them to their side. But if someone can indeed not change once they are dead and are fixed forever between good and evil, then what does the conflict between angels and demons envolve exactly? Just a basic battle? Where is it fought? where does the soul go in the meantime?

DarkOne wrote:

If your soul can't change once the person has died, what happens to someone if they are neither good or evil but perfectly moraly grey? I know angels and demons go into conflict for this person, but since the wiki never established what this conflicted involved I always assumed they fought to influance the person to tip them to their side. But if someone can indeed not change once they are dead and are fixed forever between good and evil, then what does the conflict between angels and demons envolve exactly? Just a basic battle? Where is it fought, because it can't be either heaven or hell because the soul hasn't been claimed by either side?

Then whoever gets you first, wins. as far as I know the urge to capture you for heaven / hell grows the darker / brighter your soul is, but when you are grey, you're pretty much interesting for both parties - just not as valuable. though perfectly grey would be a pretty hard goal since you usually tend to do more good/bad deeds in your life than the others... So it's unlikely, but when it happens, your goal will probably be determined by luck.

Keep in mind please that wars are not common in Felarya, or its associated afterlife worlds. I believe Karbo's made that a statement previously that wars just don't really happen. Aside from the Correctors and the Tenebris war, of course.

Amaroq wrote:

@ Stabs: Screw you, I already said it was RARE, if not impossible, so stop complaining, just because one of your fan made characters can do it or whatever. Theres a reason why I said RARE, so my point is still valid.

Now, rare and difficult are two different things. I didn't make any fan characters or anything. I'm talking about canon- by one of your friends, too, the grand-pop Zoekin. Sonya's people did that as a rite to become a shaman. And she explicitly pried stuff off Menny's menu.

Amaroq wrote:

Especcially since this is NOT about some fiends being taken away from hell, this was about SOULS being taken and brought back to life. So whatever you say was not even discussed!

I said fiends too, to make it explicit that it can't be that hard to take things from hell, be they souls, fiends... and your point about rare breaks down too, because in other worlds it happens sufficiently that the wiki needs to single resurrection out as the event that won't happen in Felarya.

Amaroq wrote:

But oh, i forgot, in this forum you just HAVE to disagree, because otherwise it wouldnt be the felaryan one... I havent posted for like 6 months because of this b*llsh*t and then I write ONE post and again "oh noez, your idea is totally impossible because XY which has nothing to do with the stuff ama said but oh well...". My points are still valid and not Impossibru in perfectly false japanglish, PLEASE do me a favor and READ before Disagreeing with me.

I think I deserve better than that little stint from you. I read your idea. I disagreed with it, for reasons that I saw fit to elaborate beyond the core. I kidded a little- won't hold it against you that you didn't like it. Now for your points, if I remember right, what you had was a possible explanation you were offering up. Not a point you wanted to make.

I'll be contacting you shortly about this.

So what, ONE person might have done something similar. then it would still be RARE and not common, right? i dont get where you try to tell me that I was wrong.
I find it extremely stupid of you guys how I say "its almost if not completely impossible" and one person says "Amaroq you are wrong because it is possible" and one person "Amaroq you are wrong, it is impossible". I am not WRONG here, since I said that it is impossible exept for maybe a few occasions. Which is the frikkin DEFINITION OF RARE. So you BOTH SHOULD AGREE with me, not disagree since I said basically what both of you said. But why should you, disagreeing is so much more fun, right? At least Archmage bael understood that we were saying the same.