Felarya

Felarya forum
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 Wizards Do It

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:47 am

I just had a great idea after reading the article for the Isolon University. †What if elementary schools in Negav had basic theories and lectures of magic as a mandatory subject in classes like maths and language, and that high schools, along with more complicated theories and lectures, offered students the choice to follow basic courses where they start actually practicing magic, and that the basic courses at the University are essentially a way for people who didn't take those classes in high school to get the magic skills they need before taking the entrance exam for the normal and advanced courses? †In a society ruled by a council of wizards, I think it only makes sense they would mandate basic magical education.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
DarkOne
Survivor
Survivor
avatar

Posts : 913
Join date : 2012-04-27
Age : 32
Location : Smart predators don't reveal their positions

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:16 am

Shady Knight wrote:
I just had a great idea after reading the article for the Isolon University. †What if elementary schools in Negav had basic theories and lectures of magic as a mandatory subject in classes like maths and language, and that high schools, along with more complicated theories and lectures, offered students the choice to follow basic courses where they start actually practicing magic, and that the basic courses at the University are essentially a way for people who didn't take those classes in high school to get the magic skills they need before taking the entrance exam for the normal and advanced courses? †In a society ruled by a council of wizards, I think it only makes sense they would mandate basic magical education.

I like this idea, I think one of the fundamentals of magic education would be enchanted items and artifacts, because even your common Negav traders would have know the differance between normal goods, and magical goods. When your city is a "Trading hub." then all sorts of things are going to be sold and bought, so many people would need to be prepared.

Potions might be fundamental as well, as that too probably won't require natural talent either, just a good head for remembering ingredients.

Then after such fundamentals will the actual magic casting classes follow, anyone who is natural at it will be further educated and the Isolon University will be keeping a good eye on them as candidates after they have finished formal education (unless the student is extraordinary with magic, they would probably allow prodigies to enter straight away)
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:05 am

Oh, just because I like to nitpick, I'd like to point many things I find the wrong with some of the disciplines listed in the article, cause it looks really rough to me.

First of all, "Curation" isn't a word, if it's supposed to mean healing magic, then it should just say "Healing".

Next, I don't see how Thaumaturgy can be a discipline taught at the university, since that magic is stated to be granted from a god or something along those lines. †It's more appropriate for a cult than an university to teach that kind of stuff, since there all the people share a common interest in the same Crystal Dragon Jesus, unlike the university where the only thing all the students share is a simple interest in magic. †I can see classes that talk about Thaumaturgy, cause there's no such thing as useless knowledge in magic, but not classes where they practice it.

While I'm at it, I find it weird there's no mention of the types of magic in the Magic article like Rule-based Magic, Artifact Magic (which really is what artifact imbuition is. †In fact, artifact imbuition just sounds like another way of saying enchanting an item, and Enchantment is already listed, so these two classes should really be condensed as Artifact Magic and Enchantment.), or Primordial Magic. †I didn't count Wild Magic because in my eye it's more a phenomenon than a type of magic that can be taught. †I can see classes that talks about Wild Magic, but not classes that teach how to harness it, cause the teachers wouldn't want to risk teaching something this unreliable and dangerous, lest they wanna be fired.

Next, Hydromancy and Pyromancy could really just be condensed as Elemental Magic, cause they both follow the same principle of manipulating a specific element.

Next, I think Levitation and Meditation are way too specific to have entire classes centered around them, especially since levitation seems like the kind of spell you would pick up during the basic classes, and while meditation would no doubt be important for every single type of magic users so they can maintain a perfect mental state, it seems it would be more at home with Primordial Magic, since that's all about tapping into the magic that surrounds every living creature and crap, which would no doubt require more meditation than other types of magic.

Next, Invocation and Chaotic Magic are a little iffy because those terms could mean anything, unlike Divination which is widely known as the art of predicting the future and stuff, and unlike something like Rule-based Magic, there's nothing in that wiki that states what Invocation and Chaotic Magic even are, so there's no concrete base of reference on what someone who specialize in these even do.

Beyond that, I don't have much of a problem. †Dimensional Magic makes a lot of sense in Felarya and it's handy to know how to teleport across town or create a pocket dimension to hold your 99+ Antidotes. †Negation also makes a lot of sense since you while know how to use magic, it's useful to know how to also counter and dispel it. †Dreams and Astral Projections are Seluvine's specialty, so it's only natural they would be taught, and I'm sure she likes seeing people show up in Dream Skype while she sleeps on the job. †Transmutation, Divinations, Illusions and Sense Alteration, and Enchantments are all staples of magic and so it only makes sense they are extensively studied and practices. †Curses I find it funny. †On the one hand, knowing how curses work and how to counter them can be incredibly useful, but on the other hand, is it really a good idea to teach people how to curse someone in the body of a toad or make someone else age abnormally quickly? †Then again, you can make the argument that pyromancy is teaching kids how to become arsonists, so I guess my point is moot. †Moving on, Science of Magic seems like the magic equivalent of philosophy classes, so it makes sense it would be there. †Battle Magic and Duels is pretty self-explanatory, especially for the battle mages during training. †Spellcrafting, at first I thought it was the same thing as the D&D skill Spellcraft, but since that one pretty much encompasses everything that has to do with magic aside activating magic items, I assume in this case it literally means creating new spells, which would be a neat thing to teach. †Metamorphosis or shapeshifting in general can have a lot of utilities and would definitely be difficult to learn, so it makes sense to have courses dedicated entirely to those. †Healing, crafting magic items and how to enchant them, and Alchemy are basically Medicine, Engineering and Chemistry, so of course those would be taught.


Last edited by Shady Knight on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:20 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
avatar

Posts : 4010
Join date : 2009-05-05
Age : 29
Location : Shatterock Caldera

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:18 pm

Very well detailed and thought up. I agree with most of it. Not sure about which class meditation should be in, but primordial seems close, yeah.

"Dreams and Astral Projections are Seluvine's specialty, so it's only natural they would be taught, and I'm sure she likes seeing people show up in Dream Skype while she sleeps on the job."

Is what stood out for me. It would be neat for the mages guild to have a controlled dreamscape-base-of-operations maintained by powerful psionists.

...I think I'll cook up an idea for it tomorrow, after I see if one doesn't exist already.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=614917399 Online
Karbo
Evil admin
Evil admin
avatar

Posts : 3766
Join date : 2007-12-08

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:57 am

Ok I made some little changes according to your remarks. I think thaumaturgy is indeed quite tricky so I replaced it by "Binding and summoning"

_________________
My main gallery
The Felarya wiki
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://karbo.deviantart.com/
Karbo
Evil admin
Evil admin
avatar

Posts : 3766
Join date : 2007-12-08

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 2:04 pm

I have been thinking of possible ranks for mages :

-Apprenctice

-Initiate

-Adept

-Arcanist †

-Mage

-Maestor

-Grand mage

-Archmage

What do you think ?

_________________
My main gallery
The Felarya wiki
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://karbo.deviantart.com/
Amaroq
Great warrior
Great warrior
avatar

Posts : 461
Join date : 2008-07-19
Age : 29

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 2:17 pm

how about a scholar, who studies magic but does not really use it? and what is a maestor supposed to be? isnt that more of a ... welll... musician rank? Sounds very similar to Maestro.

Also I think an initiate should be the lowest rank. An apprentice would be someone who already got taken in and initiate means something like "joining right now". Maybe also add some sort of "wild mage" who uses magic but has never been accepted among the ranks of the regular mages. such as outcasts or just people who never had anything to do with any magician society that could have given them any rank.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://xxamaroqxx.deviantart.com
Karbo
Evil admin
Evil admin
avatar

Posts : 3766
Join date : 2007-12-08

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 2:26 pm

mhh I was more seeing "initiate" as someone who has been initiated, as in no longer stranger to something.

_________________
My main gallery
The Felarya wiki
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://karbo.deviantart.com/
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 2:28 pm

It looks good, although some of them are really just synonyms to me. In this case, it would be Apprentice and Initiate, Arcanist and Mage, and Grand Mage and Archmage.

An initiate, according to its definition in the dictionary, is: a new member of an organization; one who has been through a ceremony of initiation; a person who has been initiated, especially recently; a beginner/novice. I guess you could say that an apprentice is someone who is in the middle of learning magic, and an initiate is someone who just recently passed said training, which could work but without an explanation, the two terms could be confused.

Arcanist just sounds like a fancy way of saying mage, or a mage who specializes in arcane magic, whatever that is, and I don't see how either could be distinguished. Grand Mage and Archmage are actual synonyms. Arch as a prefix means "chief", "highest", generally a higher authority, so in this case, it means something like "Chief Mage" or "High Mage". Grand Mage is almost literally another way of saying Archmage.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
avatar

Posts : 4010
Join date : 2009-05-05
Age : 29
Location : Shatterock Caldera

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 6:34 pm

Maybe add expert and sage?

Or are we to take the suffix of "-mage" and add prefixes to it? Like Initiate Mage, Adept Mage, Arcanist Mage?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=614917399 Online
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 6:43 pm

Sage is highly debatable. Usually it denotes spiritual enlightenment, which lets face it, very few people in Negav have achieved. Furthermore, what is even an Arcanist Mage?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
avatar

Posts : 4010
Join date : 2009-05-05
Age : 29
Location : Shatterock Caldera

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 7:20 pm

Well yeah. I usually add "mage" at the end, so saying "Arcanist Mage" sounds weird.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=614917399 Online
Stabs
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1819
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 27
Location : The Coil, Miragia

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Wed May 07, 2014 7:32 pm

I think it'd help to know what are you after with those ranks, Karbo. You can collect titles like stamps if you want, but unless we assign those a meaning, there'll be very little point to that.

If the Isolon U. grants these ranks to people, they'll mean what the Isolons decide they mean. Maybe we can have several rank systems, that while not mutually exclusive, aren't used together?

For instance...

Adventurers in the low tier have a system of titles for their resident mages. Most lesser magic users are called adepts; full-fledged mages go by arcanists, and only the most exceptional of practitioners can call themselves maestros. While unofficial, some people take them more seriously than others, and if a visiting adept makes the mistake of calling himself maestro in the wrong side of the low tier, he's just volunteered to prove whether he can walk the walk or just talk the talk. This can get very messy, specially if another mage is present.



This system is completely unfit for the Isolon University, which demands a better way of keeping track of the skills of those present. At the lowest rank of initiate, the ability to use spells is immaterial; it's the theoretical knowledge that matters. Only when a certain amount of theoretical knowledge has been ingrained into the initiate does he or she stand a chance to prove himself with magic, and finally earn the title of mage; those who choose not to practice (or fail to) may be considered sages or experts. Completing the advanced courses will grant a mage little more than academic clout; the title of high mage cannot be obtained through study, but by advancing the state of the art, much like Ph.D. degrees in more mundane universities. The archmage positions inside the university, while periodically rotated, are considered a lifelong honor: even after retirement, an archmage can expect to be addressed as such. Archmages are chosen by their peers; no amount of power or knowledge alone will grant anyone the honor.



Practitioners of binding, wild magic, and innate magic are not officially considered mages by the Isolon University, but obviously, adventurers and the masses may have a different opinion.

_________________
Fais que ton rÍve soit plus long que la nuit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Thu May 08, 2014 6:07 am

Thank you Stabs for pointing out one big problem. Just like you said, the ranks, titles, and in the case of the University, disciplines are pointless unless you give them some sort of meaning.

Anyway, the explanations you gave was pretty solid for the most part. I'm gonna assume you intentionally spelled Maestor as Maestro just to make fun of the pointless fancy name. There are only two things that I think don't quite work. The part where you say those who don't practice magic and simply dedicate to its study are granted the title of sage or expert. That would be fine, except for the "fail to" part you added. If you failed to practice magic, then these two titles don't work very well. It implies you weren't good enough, which wouldn't warrant a title as grand sounding as Sage or Expert.

The other thing is I don't see how binding wouldn't receive a title. I get innate magic since it's a power unique to someone, thus outside of standardized education, and trying to tap into wild magic is such a dangerous thing to do that most mage will think you're crazy for attempting it. Why would binding not receive a title exactly?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Stabs
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1819
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 27
Location : The Coil, Miragia

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Thu May 08, 2014 10:23 am

Actually, I thought Karbo had misspelled Maestro as Maestor. Like Amaroq said, Maestro is an Italian word often used for accomplished musicians. It's also a Spanish word, but here it just means "teacher".

I agree. Maybe sage and expert shoes are a bit too big for those who fail Magic 101. And I agree regarding innate magic, while wild magic depends too much on your ability to keep a straight face while saying "I meant to do that!".

As for why binding doesn't receive a title, it's because the way I see it (could still be different in the end, of course), using someone else's power doesn't mean you've accomplished anything other than appealing to your supernatural master. It just isn't the same thing, and in fact, awarding someone a diploma for their dealmaking and flattery exploits concerning beings beyond comprehension sounds like stuff autocratic wizards would not be okay with. It just seems, to use RPG terminology, like a social pursuit rather than an academic one.

_________________
Fais que ton rÍve soit plus long que la nuit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Thu May 08, 2014 10:35 am

I thought Binding was the art of putting summoned creatures under your control or at least keeping it in check so that it won't incinerate everyone after you summoned it, especially since Karbo changed the Thaumaturgy discipline at the university to Summoning and Binding.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Nyaha
Eternal Optimist
Eternal Optimist
avatar

Posts : 3844
Join date : 2007-12-09
Age : 24
Location : Canada. ^.^ Goooooo Snow!

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Thu May 08, 2014 12:15 pm

I think Stabs meant that Sage and/or Expert would be titles awarded to those who master the theoretical/academic side of magic but not the practical side. I think this makes sense, even if it is earned through failure. Plus, I like the image of someone fooling other people who don't know what each title specifically means into thinking he's really powerful and impressive using his title as an Expert of magic, then an actual Mage coming along and proving that he can't actually practise magic. XD
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://tanoshiiatsu.deviantart.com/
Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
avatar

Posts : 4010
Join date : 2009-05-05
Age : 29
Location : Shatterock Caldera

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Thu May 08, 2014 12:59 pm

We can also fuse irrelevant words together to form something that doesn't even make any sense for the sake of our own world, or make up a word and claim in has some meaning in one of the ancient runic languages.

Taenir, Ierisser, Lenistor, Auricon, Vementor, Imeritor, Aurica Minor/Major

Those are just random stuff I threw together this past minute, obviously the quality is less to be desired, and it doesn't really work with "-mage" which makes me uncomfortable. "Vementor Mage" doesn't really sound good.

Of course you could always just throw random words into a latin generator.

edit: oh yeah, we could always add "grade 1/2/3" or I, II, III or whatever as well. I like the idea of having more than four or five ranks.

Nox, the Westwood video game nobody knows (I love it) about has ten ranks: initiate wizard, apprentice wizard, novice wizard, adept wizard, veteran wizard, expert wizard, master wizard, great wizard, arch-wizard, legendary wizard.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=614917399 Online
Karbo
Evil admin
Evil admin
avatar

Posts : 3766
Join date : 2007-12-08

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Fri May 09, 2014 3:19 am

Ok good points there ^^
What I'm looking for is a basically a form of ranking that immediately give an estimate of the proficiency of a magic user above the student level, and that regardless of what type of magic they practice. Something universal in Felarya.

And the word " maestor" was a rather clumsy attempt at inventing a fantasy-sounding new word XD
( I did the same for the Vishmitals as part of a rework I plan on them : http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vishmitals † )

_________________
My main gallery
The Felarya wiki
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://karbo.deviantart.com/
Grave
Marauder of the deep jungle
Marauder of the deep jungle
avatar

Posts : 387
Join date : 2009-11-01

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sat May 10, 2014 3:10 pm

I support mage ranks as long as there is at least one neera archmage!!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   Sat May 17, 2014 8:41 am

This is minor, but about mages and ranks, what if "Mage" wasn't a rank but more so a title. †I'm probably explaining it badly, but "Mage" is a pretty generic term for someone who practices magic, the same way "Soldier" is a generic term for someone who is a part of the army. †What if the ranks were mostly applied to the battlemages? †The Vishmitals have their own military ranks, so why not the Isolon Fist, particularly the battlemages?

For example, an Apprentice would be the battlemages that are in the middle of training, basically their equivalent of a Recruit. †Initiates are those who are fresh out of training, so their equivalent to Private. †Adept would be a rank attained after a given number of years of services, so I guess their equivalent to either Private First Class or Corporal. †Arcanist could be their equivalent to Sergeant or something, having many more years of experience than the Adept, and Master their equivalent of I guess Master Sergeant.

It's obviously not perfect since that covers only the fighters and not the officers, or the pencil pushers as I like to call them, which might be where the ranks of Archmage and crap would fall in, and there probably would be people who are not part of the army, yet have the title of Archmage by virtue of being a recognized authority in the field of magic.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Wizards Do It   

Back to top Go down
 
Wizards Do It
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Felarya :: General forums :: General discussion-
Jump to: