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 WWII level technology in Felarya

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Sigurd
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PostSubject: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:08 am

I was looking over the Tech Level Musings thread and noticed that in one of the pictures, that an Inu was carrying a hand held anti-tank(Pred) weapon. So this started to get me thinking that if such a small weapon that can harm a predator get into Felarya, why can't something from an era like World War II get into Felarya. With all the people like Echo and Franky on the forum, you would've expected something like this to come up, but it never did, so I ask for discussion, not for hatred, not for any flaming, but just pure honest discussion about how well weapons from the World War II era(Such as fighters, tanks, artillery pieces and ships) that were actually produced and fielded before Victory in Europe Day(For those of you who don't know, Victory in Europe came before Victory in Japan, if you really want to get technical, World War II ended the moment the Germans laid down their arms, from that point on it was simply an official American-Japanese war). As for me, personally, I could see Negav having 50 mm cannons on its walls, if a good shot was made, yes, it would kill a giant predator, but in more likelyhood, it would harm them a good deal enough to make them want to leave the city alone.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:12 am

I'm afraid I don't have enough info on WWII era weapons to have much input here. =/
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:22 am

I think big enough bullets should kill most anything.

But as for getting there... well, that depends on what worlds have WWII level tech, dimensional unstability, and a whole lot of bad luck. Whoever got in there would be king of the hill... for about as long as they can last without more boolits or weaponry fixin' kits.

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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:09 am

I felt an Itch to come in here, in fact not an itch, but a provocation, as if you wanted me to come in here an take a looksy. But to answer you question...It's an unequivocal YES. Karbo pretty much painted the picture that way. By the way, to help you out you did a typo i think.

Neko214 wrote:
With all the people like Echo and Franky on the forum, you would've expected something like this to come up, but it never did, so I ask for discussion, not for hatred, not for any flaming, but just pure honest discussion about how well weapons from the World War II era(Such as fighters, tanks, artillery pieces and ships) that were actually produced and fielded before Victory in Europe Day(For those of you who don't know, Victory in Europe came before Victory in Japan, if you really want to get technical, World War II ended the moment the Germans laid down their arms, from that point on it was simply an official American-Japanese war).
The sentence structure ask when the question mark is coming when...? Lol. I'm going to take a guess that you were going to say "how well do they work for felarya?" I say WWII style weapons are probably the most common type among regular adventures (not likely mercs or PMCS) because most of it was made for mass production use and quick fielding is (The infamous mosin-nagant and the T-34 is a good example) with exception of German weaponry, it'd take alot longer because they were the quality over quantity type of military even though they as well did the whole "mass production" incentive along with the rest of the world. (examples of though would be the Stg44 [grandfather of assault rifles] and the Panzer IV. Yes though, just as stabs kind of said, It's the over all factor of who made the weapon and to what extent for it's over all purposes. WWII weapons stillcan get the job done in most cases if your on budget with today's global unrest. If you really want to know when fire arm weapons would be considered primitive in my opinion would be before the industrial age (1820's to 1900's).

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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:26 am

It was more encompassing that people in Felarya found, built or were brought into Felarya with them. This should clear up an sort of confusion later down the line.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:32 pm

Neko214 wrote:
why can't something from an era like World War II get into Felarya.
Simple. Earth doesn't exist in Felarya's multiverse. You'd need to invent a Steampunk world and make it evolve along the same lines as Earth. Including a simular warfare techique AND a simular if not larger conflict than WW2. It'd be a bit of work, but fun if you did it right.

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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:51 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:
Neko214 wrote:
why can't something from an era like World War II get into Felarya.
Simple. Earth doesn't exist in Felarya's multiverse. You'd need to invent a †Steampunk world and make it evolve along the same lines as Earth. Including a simular warfare techique AND a simular if not larger conflict than WW2. It'd be a bit of work, but fun if you did it right.

I like how you completely misinterpret the meaning of my wording. An era LIKE World War II. Not "Why can't Earth's WWII enter Felarya!"
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:55 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:
Neko214 wrote:
why can't something from an era like World War II get into Felarya.
Simple. Earth doesn't exist in Felarya's multiverse. You'd need to invent a †Steampunk world and make it evolve along the same lines as Earth. Including a simular warfare techique AND a simular if not larger conflict than WW2. It'd be a bit of work, but fun if you did it right.

Mate, that's not the point. The question is, "Would weapons of the same caliber as WWII weapons be effective?" The answer, some of the more powerful weapons from that era could exist and be effective. They don't have to come from Earth for them to.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:30 pm

Well let's think of it this way, Negav has been around for centuries and that would also surely apply to some the worlds that it is connected to. Negav and outside worlds would have slowly progressed in technological development and all of them must have went through their own versions of 1930s/1940 stage weaponary at some point before they got to the advanced stuff. †

Or are we to assume that neither Negav nor the many worlds connected to it have actually made any progress within the last several hundred years? And that all their technological development have been the same since it started out?...Because if so then there's something seriously wrong with humanity in the Felarya universe...disturbingly wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:12 pm

Well I'd say the Vishmitals were at one point, when first met, at that level. They are pretty advanced now after all.

Take into account as well, materials and magic. Worlds with magic would develop magi-tech level technology, which we could only theorize about. The reason for this of course is that they have magic. If Earth had magic, then we'd be developing along those lines too, because they would be available, and probably more desirable/potent effects.

Then there's the materials. The basic compounds for elements in the universe are very basic toward the center. Where we are at, I believe Helium, Hydrogen, and Carbon and what not are basic, with life forms being carbon based of course.

The farther out you go, the crazier the basic minerals get. I think it also has something to do with the way the universe expands, and the stability of it. Keep in mind, what I am stating is a generalization. It is an actual theory, but I forget what it is called, nor can I remember the exact specifics, but it is something along those lines. (Unless someone knows what I am talking about outright, then this'll be difficult, and I'll keep searching for this theory. However, I do know I saw it from a documentary about space)

In Felarya, and other universes, they would have evolved in a different way. They could have skipped 1930/1940s level technology, or they could be denied the resources on their world to get any further. We simply cannot know.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:26 am

The problem with the thought processes I see being considered is the overlooking of the simple. When people think of technology and weapons, they immediately go to the gun. Personally, I see this as an American concept.

If you asked most of the rest of the world, they would immediately think of bombs & mines.

Bombs & mines are simple. They can be made out of readily available substances. They are still effective decades after installation / original construction. And you only need one to do a great deal of damage - the issues being safety and transportation. Safety in construction and placement, and transportation of larger bombs. To be frank though, I would think that safety may not necessarily be one of Felarya's driving concepts.

Fertiliser bombs are a great example, as Felarya would have a lot of it readily available. They can be made with materials readily available / intended for other uses. Detonators would be slightly more difficult, but could be accomplished with rudimentary crystal devices or acquired from other worlds via the gates. Societies of all tech levels have been making bombs for hundreds and hundreds of years. The only static difference has been the reliability of desirable detonation and the destructive potent of the bomb.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:33 pm

Yes, but bombs and mines often require laying in wait, and with Pred-Sense going and other predators that don't have them using their own techniques to detect prey, you wouldn't have the time to lay down mines, and you wouldn't be able to guide them over it as they typically come from all directions, not over the soil right in front of you. The trees, behind you, using how they detect you to make their approach.

Bombs would be worse. To do a lot of damage they'd need to be big, and that means cumbersome. Grenades don't work well on the preds much either. From the outside, it'd be like minor damage to a gaping wound depending on where they went off relative to the predator's body, and what type of grenade you use. We've already established mostly that grenades don't really work.

I'd rather pack some equipment better suited to help me escape, and I can't lay down a mine while I'm running away. Especially if a harpy is chasing you, bombs and mines are utterly useless.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:16 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Yes, but bombs and mines often require laying in wait, and with Pred-Sense going and other predators that don't have them using their own techniques to detect prey, you wouldn't have the time to lay down mines, and you wouldn't be able to guide them over it as they typically come from all directions, not over the soil right in front of you. The trees, behind you, using how they detect you to make their approach.

Bombs would be worse. To do a lot of damage they'd need to be big, and that means cumbersome. Grenades don't work well on the preds much either. From the outside, it'd be like minor damage to a gaping wound depending on where they went off relative to the predator's body, and what type of grenade you use. We've already established mostly that grenades don't really work.

I'd rather pack some equipment better suited to help me escape, and I can't lay down a mine while I'm running away. Especially if a harpy is chasing you, bombs and mines are utterly useless.
That's pretty much a massive fail in the understanding department. The whole 'grenades don't work on preds' when we have all come together and acknowledged that a human sized weapon is capable of hurting / killing a predator is more of the 'lets pretend these things don't matter because we need to not give humans too many advantages' knowledge.

For starters, damage with most types of these weapons is primarily the concussive force of the blast wave ( there are some exceptions, see S-Mine et. al. ). Shrapnel and actual 'explosive damage' ( not related to pressure waves ) is more about maiming and psychological effects - indeed, I would actually recommend kinetic penetrators over guns / bombs but Felarya doesn't have the tech level to deploy these ( except maybe the turrets that guard Negav which are owned / operated by the Vish ).

Recognizing this, one sees it wouldn't take very much to hurt a predator. In fact, the bigger they are, the better this will work against them. You're essentially applying the concepts of operation that the modern day torpedo employs instead to a living creature. If you've ever seen any episode on the Military channel / have watched Mythbusters, you would immediately recognize how mines would be incredibly effective at keeping mermaids or other sea-borne predators off your shore. Negav is trickier, just given the amount of foot traffic - then again, it's not like the Vish would really care about a few people getting splattered every once in a while.


Of course, this still leaves us with land / air based. Mines aren't going to be so effective here except in prepared positions, but bombs / grenades are still effective. Concussive forces will be less effective to land based creatures given the density of air, however that doesn't make them impotent. Indeed, the primary blast wave followed by the secondary blast wind has been shown again and again, just from IEDs, to kill people that are simply near them. Advancing technology to better / smaller packages with equivalent effectiveness or shaped charges, and we get into nasty territory.

Those who aren't killed suffer traumatic injury, not the least of which is head trauma / brain damage. Predators will generally have their heads further away from the ground, but their bodies are not and there is plenty of stuff inside that they require to live. Throwing a bomb / grenade on the ground behind you that a predator moves over, particularly something like a naga or another creature with low ground clearance / high ground effect creates the potential for massive concussive damage as they are compacting the area of the pressure wave with ( relatively ) solid material.



So far we've only been talking about the simple. If we move up a little bit into WWII era weapons, we arrive at chemical grenades. These include the lovely thermite and white phosphorus grenades. If you think a white phosphorus attack on a harpy's wings wouldn't be effective, then I'd tell you you're living in a bubble.
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PostSubject: Re: WWII level technology in Felarya   Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:55 am

aethernavale wrote:
So far we've only been talking about the simple. If we move up a little bit into WWII era weapons, we arrive at chemical grenades. These include the lovely thermite and white phosphorus grenades. If you think a white phosphorus attack on a harpy's wings wouldn't be effective, then I'd tell you you're living in a bubble.
Let's just nerf the periodic table already. :B

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