Felarya
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Felarya

Felarya forum
 
HomeSearchLatest imagesRegisterLog in

 

 My thoughts on Tonorions

Go down 
+3
parameciumkid
Nyaha
Shady Knight
7 posters
AuthorMessage
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
Shady Knight


Posts : 4580
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 34

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 8:26 am

Yes, I am back, after who knows how long.

As you may know, many things grind my gears.  In fact, I made several journals on the dA group about things that grinds my gears, which I took down because people pointed out that I was mostly chastising people who didn't think the same way I did.  Although I am doing my best to keep my cool, there is only so much I can do without having to say.  I will attempt as best as I can to encourage discussion with the matter I am about to raise and not sound like I'm criticizing people who don't think the way I do.  I don't make any promises, so if you think I went out of line, please tell me so that I can fix that mistake.

Now, let's talk about Tonorions.  As all of you may know, they are among the some of the most dangerous beasts one could encounter in Felarya, and for this reason, is widely dreaded.  However, in my opinion, something has been lost about Tonorions over time.  I believe that with how they are commonly used, they have become nothing more than a quick-and-easy dangerous monster one can add in a story or a character's backstory.  Why is that?  Is it because Tonorions are easily recognizable?  It may be cynical of me, but I think people uses Tonorions for this very reason without really knowing exactly why Tonorions are so dangerous and dreaded.  I also think it's come to a point where people are putting Tonorions in areas where it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to be there.  I think that last one is more a failing of the wiki, but I think in some cases the wiki is not the only thing to blame.

To illustrate how much I believe Tonorions are used as generic dangerous monsters, I'll have to use an example.  I recently looked at Tarynn's newly added bio in the wiki and it mentions how due to the bad luck curse on her, Tonorion attacks have become common place.  Now, I quick disclaimer: I like Simon and I think his character Tarynn is a great multi-faceted character.  But at the same time, I can't help but feel the use of Tonorions here is one of the most blatant cases of using an easily-recognizable dangerous monster as a quick-and-easy way to show how bad the curse is.  I know you could make the argument that it's really because of how bad the curse is, but in my opinion, some logic and common sense should still be into play.

Before I go any further, I think we should look at what makes Tonorions such a menacing beast.  First, I'd like to quote their entry in the wiki.

The Wiki wrote:
A sort of armored and spiked centipede with the front claws of a praying mantis. Their bodies are divided into well-marked segments, each of them adorned by lateral mean-looking spikes and supported by thick armored legs, each ending in a sharp claw. With their razor sharp fang-filled maw and multiple glowing eyes, tonorions look positively nightmarish. They are agile and can run with great speed and strike in the blink of an eye. They dwell in hives deep underground, such as the great hive in the forest of whispers, and come to the surface to hunt, mostly during the night. Tonorions naturally emit an anti-magic aura, strong enough that only a very powerful offensive spell caster can hope to harm them magically. While Tonorions are very capable of tearing their prey into bits, they will still attempt to swallow them whole if possible. They represent a formidable threat for any adventurers party walking through the jungle, and one of the things making Felarya so dangerous at night.
Now let's go into more details.  As we all know, they are giant, so that's something.  Next, they are giant centipedes and they bear traits of praying mantises, two top predators in the insect world.  Just like real centipedes, they are incredibly fast and agile, which is why they are top predators.  Their exoskeleton is thick and adorned with spikes, so let's say you were a giant and tried to fight one bare-handed, you probably wouldn't hurt one much and just hurt yourself.  They naturally emit an anti-magic aura, which thanks to their other attributes, makes them the natural predators of magic-using species, primarily fairies.  However, their most overlooked trait in my opinion is this:

The Wiki wrote:
They dwell in hives deep underground, such as the great hive in the forest of whispers, and come to the surface to hunt, mostly during the night.
Yes, I had to quote the wiki again and make that part bold.  Forgive the cynic in me, but I've never seen any mention outside of the wiki that Tonorions are nocturnal predators.  This, I believe, is the primary reason why Tonorions are so dreaded.  It implies that Tonorions have natural night vision, meaning that when they come to the surface to hunt, you most likely won't be able see them, but they can see you, very well in fact.  This make Tonorion attacks that much more difficult to deal with.  After all, ambushing a group at night while they are sleeping is a very basic, but effective tactic, and combined with the other traits I enumerated, a Tonorion attack would likely cause a LOT of damage and a lot of casualties.

However, Tarynn's bio brings up another misuse of Tonorions, and by extension, many other beasts.  When that backstory took place, Tarynn lived on Prayaga Island.  However, if you look at the entry of Prayaga Island, you will notice that the fauna it highlights are simply elves and dryads.  When I said that it's more a failure of the wiki, I mean that I don't think the idea of listing faunas in set locations is a good system.  It's a bit too rigid for my tastes, as it can say that there can be no naga in this area whatsoever, which is a little dumb if you ask me.  Part of what makes Felarya what it is is that its fauna is incredibly diverse and those listed in the wiki are barely scratching the tip of the iceberg.  Animals in Felarya range from the incredibly mundane such as tigers and sharks, along with other mundane herbivores, to a plethora of chimeras.  Listing them in areas is a bit of a lost cause because, really, anything could be there.  I would like to suggest solutions to that, but that's neither here nor there.  Another time, maybe.

But, as I also said, some logic and common sense should be exercised, and no offense to you Simon, but I don't think Tarynn's bio succeeded there.  As the wiki also mentioned about Tonorions is that they live in hives deep underground, not unlike ants.  In fact, Tonorions are very similar to ants, but that's for another story.  On Prayaga Island, such a thing is impossible.  The ground on Prayaga Island is completely blanketed in thick tendrils that entangle and swallow anything that comes in contact with it.  There is no way a Tonorion hive could be on the island.  Next, it's an island in the middle of the Jewel River.  I don't think Tonorions would want to cross it, as they don't look like the best swimmers out there.  Why would they want to cross running water when they can keep hunting on the mainland?  This is why I think Tonorions were used as a quick-and-easy way to demonstrate danger.  They're obviously dangerous and they are easily recognizable, but what makes them so dangerous and their habitat don't match-up with how they were used in that bio.  It's not limited to that one bio, but it was the one that stuck out the most for me, and again, I don't mean to discredit Simon.  I think his character his fantastic with a lot of neat complexities to her that really build her character, and he's a really nice guy with a good sense of humor.  But I think that mishap highlights a problem with how we use certain creatures and I felt like I had to share it with everyone.

To wrap things up, how do you think Tonorions should be used?  Do you think they are used just fine as they are now?  Why do you think Tonorions are used that way?  Do you think they really are as dangerous as I tried to make them seem?  Are there anything you think I missed?  Please, feel free to add your thoughts on this matter, I'd like to see what you guys think of this issue, if you think there is an issue at all.


Last edited by Shady Knight on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:41 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Nyaha
Eternal Optimist
Eternal Optimist
Nyaha


Posts : 3845
Join date : 2007-12-09
Age : 31
Location : Canada. ^.^ Goooooo Snow!

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 11:40 am

I'll be honest, I haven't seen this as a problem as much as you make it out to be. And I can honestly say that I, myself, have almost never used a tonorion in a bio or a story. But, I can also say that I'm not as well-versed in Felaryan literature and work as you are, so my observations (or lack thereof) are unfounded. And sadly, I have neither the will nor the time to correct that right now. But if what you're saying is true, I can certainly sympathize with your point of view on the matter - I think that, if you're going to include an element in your stories that were created by someone else, you should do the proper research. I can admit, I haven't been perfect in this department (neko fur hunters, anyone?) but I'm learning and I always try my best to correct whatever mistake I make, especially if I'm lucky enough to have someone point them out to me.

I think part of the way tonorions are used so flagrantly the way they are is because of their popularity. I have no idea why that is - maybe because Karbo showed them in the first tome (IIRC), or in drawings, or maybe because they're easy to imagine and work with, being pretty simple creatures to grasp overall. Maybe it's because we can all (most of us) relate to being afraid of a particularly nasty- or creepy-looking insect or two.

There's something about Felaryan fauna I never could grasp - if Earth supposedly can't connect to Felarya, or just simply doesn't exist in its fictional multiverse, then how are there tigers and lions and other 'Earth' animals present there? Are we just assuming that animals like that are a multiversal constant? Is that actually a plausible assumption? Or is it just easier to write with when we can't think of anything more unique to use or don't have the time or energy to read the fauna pages of the wiki to find something that would fit the situation?
Back to top Go down
http://tanoshiiatsu.deviantart.com/
parameciumkid
Hero
Hero
parameciumkid


Posts : 1201
Join date : 2011-11-21
Location : SPAAAAAACE

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 11:46 am

TBH I have no problem with tonorions being the go-to generic random encounter beast. They're iconic almost the way nagas are, and it isn't too hard to believe that like their analogue the centipede, they are liable to show up here, there, and anywhere else. In fact I see tonorions as the cockroaches of Felaryan predators - not the most dangerous, but common enough and durable enough that pretty much everyone tries their best to avoid them, and many who live in the jungle will probably encounter one sooner or later. Also, cockroaches are supposed to be nocturnal too last I checked but I see them in the daytime all the time (making me wonder when they ever sleep...).
Now your points are still valid and should certainly be considered by anyone thinking of sprinkling some tonorions all over their bios or RPs. And in the interest of "realism," perhaps the wiki should note somewhere that, like real centipedes, tonorions are a family of several similar species that inhabit various regions.
Back to top Go down
http://helia.net63.net
Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
Archmage_Bael


Posts : 4158
Join date : 2009-05-05
Age : 35
Location : Shatterock Caldera

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 7:29 pm

Well, I agree with Shady for one. He explained it very well and concisely why Tonorions don't fit on that island, and similarly are dangerous nighttime creatures. Night time. It's said in the wiki, and while I agree parameciumkid that cockroaches are seen in daylight, who wont scuttle about nervously if you walk near them, or wake them up? I've seen Black Widow spiders in the bright sun before when I pull up a big log or boulder, but that doesn't mean they stay there. If you disturb a tonorion's "camp ground" for lack of a better word, of course its going to spring up and eat you. Its angry and you're tiny.

Tonorions should be used in a way that makes sense. If you disturb them during the day, fine, but your loss. Otherwise, keep them to night attacks on land where they would be. I doubt Tonorions would exist on Shilappo Island either.
Back to top Go down
Pendragon
Grand Mecha Enthusiast
Grand Mecha Enthusiast
Pendragon


Posts : 3229
Join date : 2007-12-09

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 2:46 am

We may need more giant monsters that aren't naked women hybrids.

In other words, a Captain Marvel to the Tonorion Superman. If that makes sense.
Back to top Go down
parameciumkid
Hero
Hero
parameciumkid


Posts : 1201
Join date : 2011-11-21
Location : SPAAAAAACE

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 4:22 pm

From now on, let's agree to use the Basilisk of Paradise as the default random monster, k? xD
Back to top Go down
http://helia.net63.net
DarkOne
Survivor
Survivor
DarkOne


Posts : 967
Join date : 2012-04-27
Age : 39
Location : Smart predators don't reveal their positions

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeSun Sep 08, 2013 9:10 am

Pendragon wrote:
We may need more giant monsters that aren't naked women hybrids.
Back to top Go down
McKindle
Veteran knight
Veteran knight
McKindle


Posts : 264
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 37
Location : Midlands, UK

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 11, 2013 2:42 pm

You raise some very valid points! I'll admit that when writing that bio in my younger and more vulnerable years I perhaps didn't put as much thought into their inclusion as I should have. I was looking for a species that would be legitimate threat to giant predators - beyond kensha beasts and some other assorted flora and fauna they seem a bit thin on the ground - and chose tonorions as something that wouldn't 'normally' be found out there to emphasise that it was her curse's doing. I think the solution would be to put more attention into creating species that pose a legitimate and hostile threat to giant predators. Although I haven't personally seen tonorions popping up unduely in lots of stories, ultimately you're always going to see a fair bit of repetition in the scary fauna used when the available selection for giant danger is limited. I had a go with my Shi'dew swarm idea, but they still need a little tinkering I feel. Smile 

Although, a minor aside: I was under the impression the Northern part of the island where the Aloes live lacked the tentacles? With the description of the Aloes's garden-like landscaping, which I thought would require open soil for growth, and their replacement with normal trees in the sketch, it seemed to me like the ground was more normal there (I may well be wrong on this point.)

My thoughts on Tonorions Prayagawiki
Back to top Go down
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
Shady Knight


Posts : 4580
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 34

My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Well, the thing is that the wiki doesn't outright state that there's one safe spot on the island, or how close that island is to the mainland for that matter. Personally, I think harpies trying to steal crops or whatever would have been better because, first of all, they can fly, so getting to the island is no problem. Secondly, I hardly see any rivalry between species of predators. Thirdly, they are intelligent. Yes, harpies hunt food and such, but if a village of giant elves has food pre-made for them, wouldn't it be convenient to swoop in and try to steal that food for themselves? I personally think this would make the setting more organic and establish predators trying to get into another one's territory for their own convenience, which would be met with opposition. I dunno, I think that would be pretty cool, predators fighting other predators for logical reasons seem... well, logical to me.
Back to top Go down
http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
Sponsored content





My thoughts on Tonorions Empty
PostSubject: Re: My thoughts on Tonorions   My thoughts on Tonorions Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
My thoughts on Tonorions
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» General Q and A
» Harpy thoughts
» Last illustration Second Thoughts sorry guys :(
» New Guardian Concept: Thoughts?
» New parasidic race. what are the thoughts

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Felarya :: General forums :: General discussion-
Jump to: