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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: River Crossing   Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:05 pm

I've noticed there are a couple rivers that would be crossed the most by adventurers.

One of course is the Motamo and Myriad River, that flows through the Great Marshes all the way around Negav and through the Misty Glade.

The other is the Shard river, which has Safe Harbor on the other side of the River.

Assuming of course the Shard River is big, like everything else in Felarya, how would an adventurer cross it? The only way I can see is that boats would be going to both sides from Safe harbor, and that area of the river is actually the safest of it's whole length (but still dangerous). However that relies upon the chance that boats are there when you are in the first place, and are willing to give you a ride. Or a ferry service which hasn't been mentioned.

It also doesn't help that there's no description in the wiki for the Shard River. I thought we covered that long ago in the Unwritten Wiki Entries thread of mine from a while back?

---

I propose that there be a Ferry Service that is associated with Safe Harbor. It's a heavily modified ship, a sleek round design similar to the ship painted by Karbo, but aimed at transporting more than defense. It'd be run by a family who have dared to make the enterprise, so they frequent the shores on the other side once a day.

I'm thinking maybe its one ship only, and a once a day thing, as opposed to a large family with two vessels that each go in different times. All they'd really need is to go south though, because most adventurers coming from Negav, or from that area would be located around there when trying to cross, I think. I could expand on it officially if anyone thinks its a good idea.

I imagine fares would be in Skevols though just to make things simpler. This Ferry would be an easier connection from one side to the other so Negav Merchants willing to travel that far would either use Skevols or trade goods for goods.

If adventurers had to trade goods for goods it'd be a problem, because most wouldn't be able to carry that extra intended fee (which might not even be accepted?). Anyway, what do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:59 am

There IS a bridge across the Shard River if you look at the big map, problem is, it's all the the way to the ruins of Ur-Sagol. So you gotta trek all the way there, take the bridge, and THEN make your way wherever you want to go. Needless to say, that alone would take weeks at best, so you're better off hiring a wizard who knows a water walk spell. In any case, a ferry across the river as part of Safe Harbor's services sounds sensible, would help getting recognition among the adventuring crowd in Negav. Only thing though is who or what is gonna protect the boat, cause anyone who's played a roleplaying game knows that anytime you take a boat, it's gonna be attacked, and last I checked, Jade hasn't learned how to be in two different places at once. I kid, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:31 am

Personally I think using any boats across the river would be suicidal, you're essentially stuck on a moving platform surronded by water, the last place I would want to be in the land of the gaints.

The problem is, you might think to make it heavily armed but that would make it a heavy and very slow target, your putting your life in the faith that the guns will actually work...if for any reason they don't (magically shielded enemy) then your a sitting duck.

A smaller vessel might be faster, harder to notice by predators and easier to apply steath too, but there will be less space for weapons. But shipwise this could be the compromise that many adventurers will be willing to take.

Ideally the best way to cross the rivers would be by air, just fly over on a jetbike. Of course not many people will have those, but if they can get them, it would be more sensible than a boat.

As menctioned there are bridges, but those require quite the detour. I am not even sure how those things are still in good condiction, you'd think a gaint would have torn them down, either on purpose or by accdiently walking into them.

I've always wondered about the Great dimensional gates, could it be possible to use one Felarya Great dimensional gate to get another Great dimensional gate still in Felarya? Adventurers could use the gate at Negav to arrive at the one at Ur-Sagol and vice versa. Many adventurers could bypass the shard river and skip a long journey by doing that...though I presume the existence of the Felarya Express (not to mention many adventurers who died walking the long way) is proof that the gates actually don't work this way........either that or the entire human race never once considered the possibility that gates could be used as a big shortcut.


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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:54 am

Personally I think using any boats across the river would be suicidal, your essentaily stuck on a moving platform surronded by water, the last place I would would to be in the land of the gaints.

Darkone wrote:
The problem is, you might think to make it heavily armed but that would make it a heavy and very slow target, your putting your life in the faith that the guns will actually work...if for any reason they don't (magically shielded enemy) then your a sitting duck.

If you built your raft like an LAAV, having it enclosed but enough space to carry your own bag and a bit of room of personal belonging. It's engine being hydro propulsion to keep it quiet. Cost wise shouldn't really be a factor. People build hybrid amphibious transports for tourism, unless engineers are retards and can't use tech or magic tech to keep the engine quiet then i'd be quite baffled.

Darkone wrote:
A smaller vessel might be faster, harder to notice by predators and easier to apply stealth too, but there will be less space for weapons. But shipwise this could be the compromise that many adventurers will be willing to take.

I agree. Who want's something with a large profile when you could easily make make it look like a log fell in. Now as Predators think like humans on a larger scale, they wouldn't be fooled and will be inquisitive by this appearance, How ever since they're rare to run into states the wiki, you should be on the safer side of travel. Or hitch a ride on a Naga that resembles a water monitor and has enough creature comfort of oxygen and space (Small pods hanging all along its back or it's tail if it's that confident) as a way to get around too.


Darkone wrote:
I've always wondered about the Great dimensional gates, could it be possible to use one Felarya Great dimensional gate to get another Great dimensional gate still in Felarya? Adventurers could use the gate at Negav to arrive at the one at Ur-Sagol and vice versa. Many adventurers could bypass the shard river and skip a long journey by doing that...though I presume the existence of the Felarya Express (not to mention many adventurers who died walking the long way) is proof that the gates actually don't work this way........either that or the entire human race never once considered the possibility that gates could be used as a big shortcut.

I would like to think that at one point and time, The gates would have a connection like that. But i'm imaging there's some sort of taboo to make that happen with out the proper resources and requisition. if not, one or a few of us can create a sensible lore behind that, would be fun i think Razz.

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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:16 am

A few points you have overlooked. First of all, Negav isn't as technologically advanced as we are, and I really don't see why they would ever need to build engines when, again, simple magic items like Boots of Water Walking are an alternative, and probably something adventurers, who are mostly shmucks who came from another world to seek their fortune, would be interested in. A jetbike seems more like something the government would keep for themselves. After all, they allow you traverse throughout Felarya much faster and more safely than on foot, so why wouldn't they want to hog the things when they go on missions to find precious resources? As for the gates, how do you transport over to a gate that you don't even know exist? You could end up literally anywhere. The risk-to-reward ratio just isn't worth it in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:47 am

Shady Knight wrote:
As for the gates, how do you transport over to a gate that you don't even know exist?  You could end up literally anywhere.  The risk-to-reward ratio just isn't worth it in my opinion.

I would have thought the adventurer guild would be decent enougth to have some form of documentation about particular places around Felarya. In fact I would thought most communites built around a demonsional gate would have somewhere that explains how they work and a collection of documents detailing the possible destionations so familaize the travelers with the location (since they need to envision the desired place)

Assuming Negav has ever had anyone actually get there in the first place to document it, but then the stories must orginate somewhere right?

It would also require adventurers to have the adult like patiance to

A: Learn Negavan text,

B: Actually sit down and read up on these things...instead of just relying on the information given by cynical drunken lurkers around the bar that seem to make up the 'Research referances' that adventurers seem to swear by.
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:56 am

The adventurers' guild is mostly there to provide survival gear to the schmucks who think leaving the safe city in the odds that they may find a treasure is a good idea.  True, some of the people that do come back at the bar might know such things, but there would be very few people who would know such things.  Plus, the dimensional gate near Negav is mostly, if not entirely, used for trading with other worlds, which is probably most of the documentation you're gonna get.  Furthermore, the gate is heavily guarded and regulated, and they wouldn't want you to use it to go somewhere else in Felarya, cause if you can get there using it, something bad can also use the gate to get to Negav.  At best, you could use the gate at Ur-Sagol for a quick trip back to Negav's gate. Felarya is a dangerous world. Even with a well-planned expedition, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Unless you're some kind of OP freak, which defeats the purpose of writing humans venturing in the wild entirely, the chances of catastrophe will always be very high.
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:11 am

Shady knight. wrote:
A few points you have overlooked. First of all, Negav isn't as technologically advanced as we are, and I really don't see why they would ever need to build engines when, again, simple magic items like Boots of Water Walking are an alternative, and probably something adventurers, who are mostly shmucks who came from another world to seek their fortune, would be interested in.

For the record, I was in the technology discussion that was in all the suspense months earlier, So i didn't overlook anything, there's a reason why i'm saying and commenting on specific things such as this. Infact i didn't see anything where karbo said negav has technology below ours maybe in general but not entirely with the obvious presence of vishmitals and privateers of other sorts being there. Which again I found unanswered as we have the felarya express. (Y'know...Those guys that use multiple airships to get to ur-Sagol..."air"ships...again. But if you want more an answer on that then we need to go back to that thread. I'm just clarifying that.

Shady Knight wrote:
A jet bike seems more like something the government would keep for themselves. After all, they allow you traverse throughout Felarya much faster and more safely than on foot, so why wouldn't they want to hog the things when they go on missions to find precious resources? As for the gates, how do you transport over to a gate that you don't even know exist? You could end up literally anywhere. The risk-to-reward ratio just isn't worth it in my opinion.

I remember in the wiki that it all starting it all started by club with merchants that had money,luck to find pieces, or the skill to build one. We can say it's government sponsored for hypothetical fluff, but since i know what they're origins were, they definitely weren't just for the government. Wiki gives all sorts of hints at that and we haven't clarified how random industry goes in negav to disagree with that. Again, private human owned company that can run and airship business...So we have private industries somewhere, maybe even a town/village or farther city within 200 proximity miles outside and near Negav. Let's not be myopic on how free trade runs in this world. If we don't know how then lets see what possibilities we can create, that's a topic untouched as well and again, something for another thread.

As for the gates thing, It would depend on what that person has experienced in my opinion really to even think of doing something like that. And as shady stated with good points. It seems redundant that one would do that, however that's the whole fun of 'adventuring' now is it? There's risk reward factors that might be your while but that's life's lemons for ya and I commend people thinking outside of the risk factor and opportunists and maybe a chance of good will at the end of their attempt.

Darkone wrote:
I would have thought the adventurer guild would be decent enougth to have some form of documentation about particular places around Felarya. In fact I would thought most communites built around a demonsional gate would have somewhere that explains how they work and a collection of documents detailing the possible destionations so familaize the travelers with the location (since they need to envision the desired place)

Assuming Negav has ever had anyone actually get there in the first place to document it, but then the stories must orginate somewhere right?

It would also require adventurers to have the adult like patiance to

A: Learn Negavan text,

B: Actually sit down and read up on these things...instead of just relying on the information given by cynical drunken lurkers around the bar that seem to make up the 'Research referances' that adventurers seem to swear by.

That seems more logical with social stigma dark. it litterally saids the adventure guild is all over the place on the continent, And if they can keep their name up in many different places. That means they're organized, and if they're organized then i don't care who you are. Information sharing,intel, and rumors are going to spread with inside that company. I'll take Shady's information and say we need to expound on that a little bit more. Because that just doesn't make sense that the adventure guild would just be giving you equipment when they litterally have subsidiaries everywhere. Which could actually give you a good reason why there would probably be aqua type adventurers. Even if not logical someoen will look into that field and excel it enough to tell others, and that person might just be in that Adventurers guild for that reason.

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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:37 am

Thing is though, Karbo did state that Negav is a pre-industrial society, so there would be no such thing as industries, and probably as companies.  In fact, the entry for Negav was fairly recently with this:

Da wiki wrote:
The Galfam-Abh MURCOWIH describes Negav as a thriving type7 pre-industrial society, although some would argue it's evolving rapidly. Technology in Negav is often closely intertwined with magic and make good use of the special properties found in lot of the resources of Felarya.

Furthermore, let's be honest, the principle behind the Felarya Express is illogical.  How it's even in the wiki is just baffling.


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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:46 am

Shady knight wrote:
Thing is though, Karbo did state that Negav is a pre-industrial society, so there would be no such thing as industries, and probably as companies. In fact, the entry for Negav was fairly recently with this:

Da wiki wrote:
The Galfam-Abh MURCOWIH describes Negav as a thriving type7 pre-industrial society, although some would argue it's evolving rapidly. Technology in Negav is often closely intertwined with magic and make good use of the special properties found in lot of the resources of Felarya.

You know what, your right, However i can't tell whoever wrote that in the wiki had taken that out of context. Because even karbo said that you have generators in some places...some...Which kind of throw's me off of it being "a type 7 pre-industrial" society should rather be corrected as in IN GENERAL or down to the wire. It's confusing me oh so much. But I think we need to address that in that thread since it belongs with it more likely than it does in this one.

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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:50 am

I got a little carried away, I'm sorry. Anyway, the whole "Negav is at pre-industrial level" came from the technology thread. Karbo said that Negav is at pre-industrial level, where swords and bows are more common and affordable than guns, and then later specified that he meant Negav doesn't mass-produce things, and for the most part, is less advanced than ours, which I guess he means developed countries. He also said that Negav is touched by modernity and is regularly in contact with it, but it hasn't fully embraced it yet. I think he said that if you go to higher tiers of Negav, you see more modern technology, however, since we are talking about adventurers, who conglomerate mostly in Negav's Lower Tier, so they won't have good access to such technologies.

Hope you can forgive my abrasiveness earlier. Also, we veered off-topic a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:45 am

That's right I spend hours writing entries blindly...  Hem anyway to come back to the original subject, it's an interesting question indeed. I would imagine boats imbued with some sort of illusions to make them hard to detect. And bridges of course when available.
When I get to do the updated map version, I'll make sure to indicate precisely where they are situated. And I'm going to start thinking about proper descriptions for each rivers as well.

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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:32 am

Sorry for blowing my top the other day, I shortened my rant so it's no longer much of a rant.  I still think there is plenty wrong with the wiki, but I will admit I didn't express it the right way.  Anyway, back on topic, my big problem with using boats is that it raises a few questions:

Who and how are those boats made?  A boat is more complex to make than simple logs tied together with hemp to make a raft.  In fact, even a raft would be hard to make since the trees in the jungle are so huge.

How was a ferry service created in such a dangerous environment?  I find the idea of a simple boat rental service in what is essentially the middle of nowhere quite implausible, the same goes to the bar in the middle of the Forest of Whispers.  I do not see how a permanent residence could have been made in such places.  I guess you could handwave it by saying the proprietor is some kind of powerful mage and he used magic to make the place and keep it safe, but to me it negates the notion that Felarya is supposed to be incredibly dangerous.

How would such establishments get business?  Unless there is some kind of clearly outlined path leading to them, it's unlikely adventurers will run into such places.  Furthermore, it would only be a matter of time before a predator or vicious animal finds and ransack the place, unless of course a wizard did it, which is as hackneyed as it could get.

How would the people running the business get their food?  It's easy to overlook, but Felarya is not very kind to hunters and foragers.  The beasts can range to manageable games to nigh-invincible monsters.  Not to mention, while off foraging, it's easy to be picked off by clever predators, and if the people who run that business die looking for things to eat, the business dies with them.

This is why I think a ferry service would only be plausible if it came from the Safe Harbor.  It's a thriving settlement, so it makes sense it would be able to have boats for going from one side of the river to another, and it's under Jade's protection, hence why they don't have to worry too much about ferocious beasts.


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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:20 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
This is why I think a ferry service would only be plausible if it came from the Safe Harbor.

Yeah that was my idea. I don't know if you read it or not, but it comes from safe harbor, owned by a family, and they cross the river, then head south for a little bit, and go back the way they came. maybe it could be part fishing boat, too? I dunno. Still trying to work those specifics out.

Anywho it is a river which likely you can see across. Its not ocean-sized. It should be a manageable size at least. Also flying over it would be a bad idea because its open aired, no tree canopies mean harpies.

At least its nice to know there's random bridges I suppose. I don't know why they'd be build, maybe more sagolian ruins that have been patched up over the years? Though those ruins havent really been disturbed or changed since Nemyra blew through there over 2,000 years prior...so...maybe the bridges (or at least some) mysteriously don't wither away? Could be an old ancient elven building technique lost to the ages :B
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PostSubject: Re: River Crossing   Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:08 pm

I'm thinking there could also be semi-static bridges made from a tree that has broken for some reason and fallen over the river, and that adventurers have found and 'secured' with a few ropes on both sides. They could make for a good, albeit temporal, solution while the ropes resist or the river doesn't flood and take the tree away. It could even be done on purpose someplace north of Nekomura to ease the way from there to Safe Harbour. You know, sending a team to quickly cut down a tree and secure it before a pred notices.

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