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gwadahunter2222
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:33 pm

the problem with the word immortality it's the fact it give the impression people doesn't die which is not the case. The effect of the soil looks like more eternal youth and health than immortality which in a way extended people longevity it's more understanding. It's not explain everything but it gives more a better view of soil effect on people.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:35 pm

Personally, if we're gonna get the immortality out, I'd like it to have a trick. There could be a random, indefinite lifespan. You might live 20000 years, or you might die at 15. Of old age. Bwahahaha! Seriously, though, there could be something like Gwada suggested, that over time, you accumulate some quality that might very well end up killing you. Then again, you've been thinking about dropping the immortality for some time... have you thought about immortality being one of the treasures of the F-place?

I mean, you had the soil, which gives everyone a pretty big shove. But if what'cher after is immortal wizards and specific characters, literature's rife with lives that are extended because of magic (or spice, as in Dune or Ringworld). Maybe such magic is simply easier in Felarya... and the wilderness is rich with materials that make it child's play to borrow even more time you probably won't get to use?


But I don't really agree with losing the random dimensional disturbances. If there'll be no random arrivals to Felarya, then everyone in Felarya came there of their own accord, or was brought there: there will be not a truly innocent (I mean... innocent of anthing Felarya-related) soul dying there. That changes things a bit.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:07 pm

I don't think anyone suggested dropping dimensional disturbances altogether, but rather change the wording so that it doesn't happen as often as people think, cause it's a common misconception that humans and other small humanoids are dropped by the truckloads every single day and are crawling every single corner of the jungle like it's some sort of infestation. †I know even that is being very hyperbolic, but it's easier to get the point across.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:52 pm

Words,words,words. It seems like that's the biggest thing for clarifying this world. But yeah, I agree with the others, don't drop the random dimensional pocket switches. More importantly i came with a little rebutle I've been thinking with what Shady and stabs have been saying. The only reason why it seems like people are coming in the by the truck loads is like they said, wording and emphasis. If you were to put in the wiki that it was a rare occurrence, then canonically it would be, but does that stop people from writing about random people coming in and out? Not really, people seem to like that because of what Darkone stated. It's easier to create a character and imagine in general simplicity when it comes to making your own fiction with this Universe. So i would make it more illusive sounding that you give in fluffy detail of an estimate of how many random travelers do come in and how often. So for ex. "As dimensionally unstable as felarya is and how often different worlds get mixed up with it. It is very uncommon to see civilizations get picked up rather with traces of small villages or towns and even the utmost rare parts of cities. However with the dimensional rifts, It is often found in most cases that what ever civilization had been in the aforementioned, have been often found abandoned or remnants of the people. How ever individuals are a different manner. They are found only whether they survive being isolated and later found by sentient life, or meet the common fate of being eaten up by the world and it's mysteries." Not the perfect example but something like that. Otherwise I really like it. It adds flavors of people's different imaginations to an alluring and expansive world.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:16 pm

Well no, I woulden't want to see the dimesonial stuff completely disapear, I merely said I would like If there was "less emphasis" on it.

I don't see anything wrong with the inclusion when it's treated with moderation and actually suits the story. But overtime it has simply become a massive Felarya cliche.
And it really does give the impression that it happens all the time, to the point that authors are writing stories about Armies getting to together to fight this barely existant threat to the universe. And it simply gives fuel to Felarya haters ("Felarya is evil because countless of innocent lives are constantly being sucked into it! Why doesn't someone just nuke it already?")

Though realisticly there's nothing really anyone can do to prevent authors from doing it. I accept that it's simply the easier way of introducing characters and in some cases it can work pretty well.

And it's certainly not my place to tell authors to "Cut it out with the Felarya cliches." At best all I can do is try to make an example and write about interesting locals in Felarya and prove that it doesn't always have to be outsiders all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:55 pm

DarkOne wrote:

And it's certainly not my place to tell authors to "Cut it out with the Felarya cliches." At best all I can do is try to make an example and write about interesting locals in Felarya and prove that it doesn't always have to be outsiders all the time.


Yep. Myself I personally am shocked when I hear nobody has a OC in Negav at all, and it's like literally the capital of the universe of Felarya.
Tis why when I get past this two parter I'm going to work on my "Meanwhile In Negav" series. Where it only features those who live in and visit the city, whith those who live there being prioritized.

Now I have to chime in on the Immortally thing. I really don't think we need to remove it all together cause of the Chronology. See one reason I love Felarya? OCs can exist for freaking ever! It's the one place where time passage don't mater. Wheras in a Space Opera I made myself I'm always having to adjust for the passage of time and squeeze in as much "filler time" as I can with my OCs before they turn old and grey, but with Felarya? I don't have to do all these tedious calculations every time I have five years pass or think about how I can cut those years up and make the character's life more meaningful. Not to mention do year skips when they have kids. @-@ Gah that just about drove me crazy when I got into G2 to G3's. I had to do so many time skips I barelyt could focus on the parents AND they got so old they couldn't serve out their miliatary careeers except at a desk job or some political thing. I really, really don't want to consider that here. It's just tedious and iratating to calculate character's ages and need I even mention the fact if you have diffent life cycles between pairings or even friendships can tear them apart? For example Clare a naga who will live, if time passage affected her and nobody actually ever killed her, till she's in the hundred wheras her human friend Tamlin and Kate? Be lucky to make it close to half that far if you think logically....Gah logic. >.< It ruins good fantasies. =/ I'm beginning to see why my friend says "don't talk to me about logic" when I'm trying to explain the science of sci-fi.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:23 pm

Jedi, I hate to break it to you, but all the great works of fiction are founded on logic to an extent. That's why they're so good, because they are relatable. Furthermore, consistencies of the rules within a work of fiction are also a form of logic. Breaking either of these is a quick and easy way to have your work of fiction fall apart. so when you say, "Gah logic. >.< It ruins good fantasies." it translates to me as "I can have decrepit, arthritic old man punch out a giant with one strike because screw you.", and that's terrible.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:42 pm

Stabs wrote:
Personally, if we're gonna get the immortality out, I'd like it to have a trick. There could be a random, indefinite lifespan. You might live 20000 years, or you might die at 15. Of old age. Bwahahaha! Seriously, though, there could be something like Gwada suggested, that over time, you accumulate some quality that might very well end up killing you. Then again, you've been thinking about dropping the immortality for some time... have you thought about immortality being one of the treasures of the F-place?

I mean, you had the soil, which gives everyone a pretty big shove. But if what'cher after is immortal wizards and specific characters, literature's rife with lives that are extended because of magic (or spice, as in Dune or Ringworld). Maybe such magic is simply easier in Felarya... and the wilderness is rich with materials that make it child's play to borrow even more time you probably won't get to use?


But I don't really agree with losing the random dimensional disturbances. If there'll be no random arrivals to Felarya, then everyone in Felarya came there of their own accord, or was brought there: there will be not a truly innocent (I mean... innocent of anthing Felarya-related) soul dying there. That changes things a bit.

Honestly I prefer immortality. If you're going to live a long time in Felarya, you're going to live a long time (otherwise getting eaten when you're 50 wont mean diddly if there's immortality or not on the world), and nobody - aside from Asherala the Queen of the Crimson Maidens - will likely live 20,000 years anyway.

You could have immortality, you can also give it some quirks. Though having to go through a complex magical process in Felarya to gain such extended life probably wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Of course one of my main characters has a naturally long lifespan anyway, so it wouldn't be much of a problem for me, except maybe for Mara.

Honestly if things like Immortality and Dimensional Disturbances are changed, then for one: I might not be able to have my current story legitimate, because Mara is old, and if immortality is removed, then likely she'll have gone through menopause already and not be able to have children.

Second, is that Bael wouldn't have been able to get to Felarya, because he didn't get there of his own accord, it was an accident. These are my own reasons, but they're cause for concern on my end, and its why I have a certain bias toward this argument. However, having bias does not mean I might not express a good point though, and that's what I'm after.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:07 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
Jedi, I hate to break it to you, but all the great works of fiction are founded on logic to an extent. †That's why they're so good, because they are relatable. †Furthermore, consistencies of the rules within a work of fiction are also a form of logic. †Breaking either of these is a quick and easy way to have your work of fiction fall apart. †so when you say, "Gah logic. >.< It ruins good fantasies." it translates to me as "I can have decrepit, arthritic old man punch out a giant with one strike because screw you.", and that's terrible.

Hey I'm a warrior and advocate for logic. I'm not saying abandon it altogether. I'm just saying too much of it can ruin the mystery and the fun of fantasy. It's like not every show needs science fiction science otherwise it'd be all boring and limited but what it could do in the script. I don't think everything can get away with not having logic mind, after all when I make a universe I usually use logic or some substitute to make a order to it and so far that's worked out, but too much of anything can be bad for you. Even logic.

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Honestly I prefer immortality. If you're going to live a long time in Felarya, you're going to live a long time (otherwise getting eaten when you're 50 wont mean diddly if there's immortality or not on the world), and nobody - aside from Asherala the Queen of the Crimson Maidens - will likely live 20,000 years anyway.

XD That's actually a pretty good point and funny. Also I didn't know the Crimon Maiden's had a queen! O.o Why does it seem Felarya updates itself when I look away, like it's some sort of Weeping Angel? o.o;

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Honestly if things like Immortality and Dimensional Disturbances are changed, then for one: I might not be able to have my current story legitimate, because Mara is old, and if immortality is removed, then likely she'll have gone through menopause already and not be able to have children.

I hadn't even taken menopause into consideration! Poor Clare would never have Nagalings then. *Hears Kate in the background celebrating* Not that everyone would be broken up about it.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:33 pm

Bael, you keep overlooking that there are safe spots in Felarya, Negav being one of them, and you have to factor what happens when you have a civilization that can't die from old age in an environment with low, if not, very low odds of accidental deaths. Let's assume for the sake of argument that birth rate in Negav is very low every year, and that it managed to stand for 2000 years, or maybe only 1000 years. What happens then? Yes, there would be some deaths from some unnatural causes, but add the fact of improving healthcare, magic-based healthcare even, that helps keeping people alive, and while there wouldn't be very few births every years, it would still add up over time. What do you do with such population, when the older generations literally cannot die from their old age? Do you have a center you must go to when you reach a mandated age where they kill you, like in The Giver? That would be one way to solve the problem, but IMO, that would be too dark for a city with already a lot of dark overtones as it is.

And it's not limited to Negav. What about the Jungle Bowl? It's isolated and it's under the protection of a very powerful Dryad. True, there people seem to have to hunt for certain food food, which increases the odds of dying, but I'm pretty positive Cypress helps in providing people with food, most likely plant-based food, and I'm fairly certain the people of the Bowl don't stray very far from hunting so they're not out of reach from Cypress' spiritual link, so they do live a pretty safe life with a population that can very slowly, but surely expand every generation. Like with Negav, what happens if say 1000 years pass? How big with the populace be? What about Chioita? They were blessed with being born in a location where they practically can't be reached by aquatic predators, and they take advantage of that to subsit almost entirely of fish. Furthermore, they very intelligently make deals with the local predators so they have good mutual relationships. What happens with such a population with high odds of survival in an environment where it's impossible to die of old age if enough years pass, even with low birth rates?

I'm just saying, the whole "you can't die of old age" may seem like no big deal if you think only of life in the wilderness, cause there the odds of dying are high, but you gotta think of those safe zones where it's unlikely you're going to die as well. They're part of the setting, like it or not, and eternal youth is a big thing with Felarya, so you gotta bring up how they deal with the obvious problems of immortality, cause there people know better than to just go on a picnic trip in the jungle.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:19 pm

That could also be managed by having Negav be one of those cultures no one would give much credit to, and overstate the importance of going out and having adventures. I think it'd work for Kortiki, at least: surely we can add to the crimes of fairies that they're a bad influence on kids.

Negav has a limit to the amount of people it can feed, too. Eventually, there'll be either expansion, emigration, food shortage, or adoption of family planning methods and techniques. I wonder if their contraceptives are MAGIC!

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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:38 pm

Well considering there is a intergalactic gate right next to Negav, I am sure at some point a certain percentage of the population will migrate to greater and bigger worlds.

There's only so many incentives for people to actually stay in Felarya afterall, and those incentives will not appeal to everyone, not when those benifts come at the price of being wedged between a dangerous world and a facist government.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Well, of course there's the gate, but if you think about it, if people in Negav know the gate can take you to a much safer world that's better than in Felarya, then why have they not moved out once the gate was established? I know the obvious answer is personal attachment and whatnot, since I brought up a similar argument when I asked why Nekomura was still there when they could have done something like the Motamo Docks, but it's still something to think about.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:37 pm

Well I guess it depends on the person, some people in Negav would be patriotic towards the Magiocrats and stay to surport them, some people in Negav might find a world of legends and myths more interesting than safer modern worlds, some might like aspects of Negav cultule, some might be criminals and find Negav's lax law enforcement to be beneficial to their interests.

And there will be people who arn't interested in Negav at all and will probably leave as soon as they become aware of the alternatives, most likely younger generations who encounter adventurers (Adventurers and Negavians must have conversations at some point, right?) These young Negavians, hearing about the werid and strange worlds the adventurers came from decide to go off to explore them and eventually settle down there.

Negav is surposed to be an cosmopolitan society, you can't really paint them with the same brush. They will all have their own reasons for what they do. But my main point that it's statistically improbable that every single person who has lived in Negav has been perfectly satisfied enougth to stay there and won't look for anything better, unless of course the magiocrats have been mindwashing them to stay, but I don't really see what the Magiocrats would get out of overpopulating their own city
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:36 am

Well dark, For what negav is, it seems to have grown exponentially overtime (And we're talk a few hundred years to half a millennium) To grow to the size it is right now. Which means that yes and no people are comfortable where they wan't to stay at in Negav or one of the bigger towns. Honestly in this case I think one or more of us authors and imagineers need to make up some fluff about how they keep their stability and the aforementioned things Stabs said earlier when it comes to each individual town.

The reason i can see it being..."Daunting"? Is because trying to make up lore around a city and a society is ALWAYS difficult when your not trying half ass it and make it sound unique. For instance, unlike the Magiocrats, The vishmitals actually like expanding and having their own little grubby hands on things in a different way then the Magiocrats do even though the magiocrats is what is keeping them alive for exchange of better security and city-state defense operations. (A messed up way to make a negotiation but it worked at the time.) Take into consideration that that might have came at a price. Like some or most of the regular vishmitals civilians when they came in with their desperate fleets might have not been welcomed as ready immigrants of negav and may have had to do something like what a good example would be from an anime most of us know attack on titan where they had to force 20% of the population to try and take back wall Maria. (Which I'm not really spoiling anything saying that since the show very early outright tells you that's what happened and was not a sound strategy to begin with. So that they could stabilize and work out what was now open economy to maintain a good order again. You can make up that the same thing happen except less dire way to the vishmitals and say that alot of small towns where made in the negav region because of that and that they have their own agenda for wanting to stay in felarya. That's the little fluff of an Idea i'm working on now and making it viewed "logical" based on that faction's society,ideals,and cultural thinking as is and boy that takes a lot or work but it's fun. I agree with shady though, there's helluva lot of reasons you would wan't the risk to be staying in felarya because it seems to have the best of things that other worlds can't or don't have across all spectrum. Making you filthy rich and well, to being well content to living longer, or just feeling of venture this world has to offer.

But just as you said. Negav isn't one brush. It's many different hairs in one. The real problem is, is that there isn't enough sounding,clarified, and fun fluff to make sense out of certain aspects of it like the government and such. It's a project that's been and still in motion and I honestly don't see getting done anytime soon with out a coordinated and concentrated effort by Karbo or the community that can work on those specific topics and such. So if your up to the task (and I mean all of you who are willing to try) then do so. We can discuss and talk as days go on but it's easier looking for people doing the same thing or similar and sharing your ideas with them frequently so it isn't random rubbish being cobbled together and will help Karbo do his placements in ficiton in the long run. Kind of like how Amaroq is doing with the rpg game atm.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:30 pm

Lets see, to list it off there's...the healing effects of soil. It doesn't protect you from everything. You could still technically die from a poison, or stress if you live long enough, or alcohol poisoning.

Negav also goes through periods of disasters every couple hundred years or so, it seems. Take into account the Isolon Eye is actually fairly new, and then you can't be sure how long that advantage will be around.

Given that, when a population is too high, what happens? Negav builds up, or they build down, or people move into the surrounding area still within the borders.

This could also be a big part of the political structure - when a city like Negav in Felarya gets too dense population wise, it constricts food supply, living space, available resources, and unrest happens, then the Magiocrats suddenly are presented with an important problem that will result from their most prestigious invention. Will there be a culling? Will law enforcement get stricter as a roundabout way to lower the population? Will there be riots and starving in the streets - which will lower the population that way...

I'm not even taking much time to truly think about what could truly happen anyway. I'm sure there's many more options - but you see my point.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:03 pm

While it is true that the soil doesn't protect you from everything, I have to ask again, how often do people die from stuff like poison or curses, or some kind of parasite infection, and does it happen enough that it outweighs or evens out the birth rate? Furthermore, Bael, you addressed possible solutions for only Negav. What would be the solution for Chioita, the Jungle Bowl, Kortiki Town, areas where expansion is especially risky, cause unlike Negav, they don't have a fancy crystal to keep the giant monsters away?

While I'm at it, even if expansion is possible for Negav, and let's say for the sake of argument, that no major disaster like The Great Destruction occurred over an incredibly long period of time and that the Isolon Eye lasts forever, the Isolon Eye's range, while huge, is limited. True, they could potentially create a second one, but since it's such a vital element to the safety of the city, that also means more resources will have to be spent just to protect it along with the original one. Plus, as it is, the Magiocrats are wary of expanding because they believe that's what caused Ur-Sagol to be wiped off the map in the past. Whether that is true or not they have no way of knowing, but the point is that they think expanding the city just willy-nilly is a bad idea, so it's not really an option.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:55 am

Would be greatly ironic if Negav's downfall was due to the breakdown of socitey resulting from the mass panic of over population. That would mean it's success at being a thriving socitey was the very reason it failed.

"We're the greatest nation on Felarya! Nothing can beat our great armies and powers! Nothing can defeat us!"

*Negav collaspes under it's own weight*


Yeah, doesn't really add much to the discussion. I just thought it was an interesting observation.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:28 pm

Dridders †sobsob
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:46 am

Claire wrote:
Dridders †sobsob

Right, don't believe I've really conversed with you before so I may be way off on my understanding.

But if my quick gander at your DA profile is anything to go by, I believe you are refering to the fact that Dridders are mostly wild man eaters and there isn't any offical culture resembling the Dridders as your drawings depict?
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:55 am

Claire wrote:
Dridders †sobsob

....I've changed my mind on what I'd change. The Dridder Empire should be restored. Period. In some form or fashion. Let's face it we all love how awesome they were and can't really cite why we shouldn't have fancy dridders again, right? After all we've moved past the age where dridders were considered evil merely because of their appearance. Nikitika and Claire helped with that I think. <.< So why not?
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:07 am

gotta show remnants of a once great empire in my opinion. The history needs to be more fleshed out and there need's to be if anything. Some sort of small remnant that would like to rebuild and laminate on past greatness of that empire.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:49 am

Aren't the ruins of Supprozad just that, the remains of the dridder empire? It even got insane cultists living their, so far out of their gourd they act like the city is still there.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:15 pm

There is also the 'Motamo Docks' where some hybrid predators are trying to move towards civilisation, woulden't be surprised if there's a few decendants of the Dridder empire that ended up settling there.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could change something   Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:15 pm

DarkOne wrote:
There is also the 'Motamo Docks' where some hybrid predators are trying to move towards civilisation, woulden't be surprised if there's a few decendants of the Dridder empire that ended up settling there.

I thought that's just where the human size predators lived. I didn't know anybody of giant proportionate size existed in Motamo or could. Isn't it inside the Eye's range?
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