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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:38 pm

I was reading the wiki for a little bit when this paragraph in Nekomura's entry caught my eye:

Da Wiki wrote:
Thus [Nekomura and Negav] don't interact very often, save for basic trade, and sometimes knowledge sharing. A large number of nekos both within the village and within the city will frequently offer their services as scouts in the jungles of Felarya. In fact, the nekos scouts are so well known and respected that even the isolationist Delurans have turned to them on more than one occasion to assist in their scouting duties.

I think it's worth expanding upon.  After all, we know that Nekomura has to keep paying a tribute to Negav just to keep their Isolon Eye knock-off working, and as Cliff pointed out in the past, Nekomura is far too backwater for Negav to make a real monetary profit off of, so wouldn't it make sense that these few trades have something to do with it?  Furthermore, wouldn't those trades, especially the aforementioned knowledge sharing, affect Nekomura's growth?  I mean, wouldn't it make Nekomura bigger and slightly more advanced when it comes to magic and maybe technology a little bit, than the majority of other neko settlements?  For example, thanks to a little bit of trading, and perhaps adventurers passing through the village, wouldn't Nekomura have things like a few inns or even stores for them?  It's worth elaborating on.

Lastly, this is minor, but wouldn't it help to mention that neko scouts are very well renowned and respected for their competence and skill in the Neko article?  So far, it's mentioned only in Nekomura's entry, so I don't think many people are aware that nekos make for fantastic scouts.  Or could it be that only Nekomurans are well known for being such good scouts, hence why it's only mentioned in Nekomura's entry?


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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:25 am

It's possible they've been expanding for a long time. The wiki probably doesn't document every single thing that happens.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:42 am

Isn't that kind of the definition of a wiki? To document as much as possible about a particular subject?
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:07 am

I think expanding upon Nekomura would be a good idea. All we know is that its basically a village, but just under the "protection" of Negav.

Amazing neko scouts notwithstanding.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:55 am

Alright you make some good points here ^^
and yes Nekomura could use a lot more description indeed.

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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:40 pm

Needs more description you say?

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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:29 am

So Grave, I take it from your description that Nekomura isn't that high on the list of Tiny Vacation spots in Felarya. =p
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:08 am

What I would give for mod power just so I could delete useless posts that contribute absolutely nothing to conversations like you two are doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:48 am

Shady's Right, if you don't stay on task with the post, i'm going to Delete any further Irrelevant ones that come hence. It really is one of my pet peeves and creates a lot of litter, so consider this a fair warning.

Among other things. I've been thinking about this for quite awhile, but wouldn't Nekomura be one of those villages watched over by the Islon fist? Apparently it's in good enough affiliation with the magiocrats that it's deemed "important". I always wondered about that.

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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:22 am

I'd imagine traditionalists within Nekomura would reject the new advances brought by adventurers passing through as they leave Negav, or even attempts by Negav to advance it. But they probably wouldn't have too much sway in the end.
Nekomura would probably be larger than any other Neko settlement in existence, but wouldn't really be industrial as a result of resistance due to cultural pride.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:36 am

Sorry you two. In all seriousness though, other then the Neko Scouts I just don't see what Nekomura brings to the table with Negav. It's a relatively small village compared to a city with connections across the multiverse. And no matter how good Neko Scouts are, I don't think the Scouts are worth a mini Isolon Eye and protection from the Fist.

The only thing I can think of is that Negav uses Nekomura as an easy way to get goods by charging them for recharging their Isolon Eye, and as a distraction for preds. A sort of was of saying "Hey Preds, you could attack us. But look at what's right over there, easily within your hunting distance. A good sized village that's just barely defended full of Nekos! Go eat them first." And honestly, if you were a predator, which would you go for? A huge city that's very well defended, and could hurt or even kill you, or a good sized village that has plenty of food and not even half the defenses?


Now, as for life in Nekomura, I actually agree with Hat. The tensions with Negav and traditionalists would likely make Nekos want to reject newer technology and such, making technological progress slow in their village.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:23 pm

I don't think Nekomura is really in any "good enough" affiliation with Negav.  The entry for Nekomura makes it very obvious:

Da Wiki wrote:
For nekos, living in Negav among humans has never been an easy affair. Under the reign of neko kings, tensions were already simmering between the two races. Then came the Great Destruction, when a good part of Negav was destroyed, and Tonho and many nekos were devoured, especially members of the military. In the aftermath, nekos and humans survivors worked together to [re]build and reinforce Negav. The humans were now clearly in charge though, having suffered less from the Great Destruction and being led by the powerful Ps'isols mages. Thus, when the dust of destruction and rebuilding settled, thing[s] became more and more complicated for [n]ekos. After several years, racial tensions were again running high, in part because [K]ing Tonho was held by many [N]egavians to be solely responsible for the catastrophe that destroyed so much of the city.

When the Ps'isol magiocrats took power, they "encouraged" nekos to leave. A large number of nekos followed their advice, feeling that proximity to humans wasn't doing them any good. They set out to construct a separate village a short distance to the north: Nekomura. Under the term of the Mancala agreement, Ps'isol magiocrats offered the nekos a crystal of the same kind as the Isolon Eye in Negav, as a sign of "eternal friendship". The neko's['] crystal, however, is just a mere shadow of the original, as it stands less then 5 feet tall. It does more or less the same things as the Isolon Eye: wards away large predators that might otherwise feast on the village. However, unlike the eye, this crystal must be regularly recharged by the mages of Negav, which they do for a fee. This treachery has kept tensions high between Nekomura and Negav, however the nekos still dutifully pay the fee as they know the crystal is the only thing keeping ravenous predators at bay. There have been recorded instances where the crystal weakened enough to allow a giant naga a large enough window to snatch some villagers before finally being driven back by the magic.

Thus the two populations don't interact very often, save for basic trade[s], and sometimes knowledge sharing. A large number of nekos both within the village and within the city will frequently offer their services as scouts in the jungles of Felarya. In fact, the nekos scouts are so well known and respected that even the isolationist Delurans have turned to them on more than one occasion to assist in their scouting duties.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the majority of Nekomurans don't think highly of the big wigs in Negav.  Basically, what happened can be summed up as such:

"Hey, you don't like that people are pitting the whole blame to you?  Then why don't you make your own settlement?"
*Nekos found Nekomura*
"Oh, you made your own settlement.  Here, take this Isolon Eye to keep you safe.  By the way, it'll run out of power every once in a while and you have to pay us for a recharge.  LOL!"

Also, with how the soil increase the lifespan of people, wouldn't habits, values and biases die hard?  Sure, according to the timeline, over two centuries have passed since the Great Destruction, and one century since the founding of Nekomura, but wouldn't it be entirely possible that some of the people both in Negav and Nekomura be survivors of the Great Destruction, having witnessed its prelude and the radical change in political climate in its aftermath, and that those people still carry the biases that they experienced?  I think it's safe to say that racism toward Nekomurans, and consequently racism toward Negavians, would still very much be a problem even in present time.  Maybe not quite as bad as back then, but still very noticeable nonetheless.

Anyway, a thought occurred to me.  We know that Negav can't really force Nekomura to pay for their continued safety with actual money since it's just a village of nekos and it would be impossible for them to churn over enough cash for a big city like Negav, but what if that was only a temporary solution for Negav until it built its own dimensional gate?  After all, with that gate, Negav can now trade with actual commercial powerhouses and ship respectable amounts of goods much more efficiently.  This also raises another question, why is Negav accepting tribute from Nekomura still?  If they were truly super cynical, the Magiocrats could simply stop interacting with the village altogether and leave them to their own designs.  After all, whatever Nekomura could offer would be mere paltry to what Negav can obtain from inter-dimensional exchanges.  The obvious answer to this is the Mancala accord/agreement, but what exactly is in the Mancala accord/agreement that compels Negav to maintain interactions with Nekomura to the point of accepting what could be trivial tributes?  What are these tributes that they must pay?  Are they the aforementioned basic trades and exchange of knowledge?  To me it seems obvious that the introduction of an inter-dimensional gate literally within spitting distance of Negav would affect its interactions with Nekomura and it's definitely worth exploring.


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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Shady Knight wrote:

Anyway, a thought occurred to me.  We know that Negav can't really force Nekomura to pay for their continued safety with actual money since it's just a village of nekos and it would be impossible for them to churn over enough cash for a big city like Negav, but what if that was only a temporary solution for Negav until it built its own dimensional gate?  After all, with that gate, Negav can now trade with actual commercial powerhouses and ship respectable amounts of goods much more efficiently.  This also raises another question, why is Negav accepting tribute from Nekomura still?  If they were truly super cynical, the Magiocrats could simply stop interacting with the village altogether and leave them to their own designs.  After all, whatever Nekomura could offer would be mere paltry to what Negav can obtain from inter-dimensional exchanges.  The obvious answer to this is the Mancala accord/agreement, but what exactly is in the Mancala accord/agreement that compels Negav to maintain interactions with Nekomura to the point of accepting what could be trivial tributes?  What are these tributes that they must pay?  Are they the aforementioned basic trades and exchange of knowledge?  To me it seems obvious that the introduction of an interdimensional gate literally within spitting distance of Negav would affect its interactions with Nekomura and it's definitely worth exploring.

This, just all of it. Nekomura literally has nothing to offer Negav now that the city has the gate. Now I could see there being some use for Nekomura before the gate was established, but as you said they're practically worthless now. There is nothing Nekomura can offer besides scouts that can't be gained from that Gate.


Shady Knight wrote:
What are these tributes that they must pay?  Are they the aforementioned basic trades and exchange of knowledge?  

Seeing as it doesn't have nearly the resources Negav has, I can see Nekomura offering two things for tribute:

1) Neko Scouts could be sent to work in the Negavian Military as tribute. Instead of goods, Nekomura could provide Negav with a few extra foot soldiers and scouts.

2) Food, clothes, and basic goods. This is really all I can think of in an actual goods exchange that Nekomura could offer.

As for knowledge, we once again run into an issue where Negav has access to anything the Nekos know and then some. Nekomura doesn't seem like a super scholarly place, so I highly doubt there's anything that the Nekos could teach Negav. even if they had something they could teach, that knowledge is going to be a limited resouce that can easily be taken by Negav just by having people go in and learn on their own, then return and copy everything down for Negav.

I honestly feel the only reason Negav has an interest in Nekomura is to use it as a way of keeping predators away from the city. As I said before, if you're a pred which are you more likely to attack? A village that has plenty of food and low defenses, or a giant city with tons of food, and tons of ways to hurt and kill you?
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:45 pm

Actually, even keeping predators away from the city is a stretch.  I'm just going to post a link to Felarya's map so you can see for yourself.  http://karbo.deviantart.com/art/Large-map-of-Felarya-144588075

Notice anything?  That's right, Nekomura is located north of Negav, but there's a big stretch of land capable of accessing Negav from the south.  Let's not even forget the western Ascarlin Mountains where a colony of harpies live.  These can bypass the Motamo River entirely.  Nekomura would only be really tempting for predators coming from the north, while the southern and western flanks have have no such thing to lure predators away, besides the artillery guns obviously.

Furthermore, why should Negav care about an "outpost" if you will luring predators away when they already have those humongous defenses?  It may sound really morbid, but if anything, wouldn't it be better if giants went after Negav instead of Nekomura just so that the gunners have some quick catharsis shooting down monstrous man-eaters... if they even need to considering the range of the Isolon Eye is pretty damn huge and good distance away from Negav already?


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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:00 pm

I always thought that the eye had a far reach? Even if it's less effective, feeling like one would vomit would make appetites hard to keep.
Especially if it overlaps the one located within Nekomura.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:33 pm

I think one ace in the hole that Nekomura have to serve Negav would be that Nekos know predator psychology better than humans (given that Nekos essentialy are Felaryan predators) and therefore will always have a better idea of how to survive in the forests than humans, they know the enemy better.

And it's easier to grudgely consult Nekomura for such knolledge than it is to ask Motamo Docks, (Which Negav dislikes even more than Nekomura)
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:17 pm

Not necessarily. Most nekos that live in the wild, perhaps, as they'd have hunt far more often than Negavian nekos do for sustenance and would therefore adapt hunting tactics like actual predators. However, that's more a case of their upbringing. Nekos in Negav are used to the sedentary life and living in relative luxury compared to their feral cousins. If you were to suddenly put those in the middle of the jungle, chances are they wouldn't far nearly as well as the ones who go hunt in the dangerous outside world practically on a daily basis. The Nekomurans are descendants of such nekos and their village is by all rights a thousand times safer than any other neko settlement in Felarya. This relative safety would affect their culture, no doubt. Or at least, as much as we can think of their culture. There's barely anything known about Nekomura's culture. We don't even know if they hunt regularly like their feral cousins or if they have a livestock mentality. All that's known about Nekomura itself, in the four lines that don't cover its history that is, is that it's rustic and that it has simple dwellings both on the ground and the treetops.

Anyway, Hatty, no, I think it's been said that the two eyes don't overlap, not by a long shot. It's easy to forget just how truly massive just this part of Felarya is supposed to be for humans. I think the idea is that Nekomura is at the very least a few hours away from Negav on foot, and a good chunk of it is spent outside the range of either eye. By Felaryan standards, it's a tiny distance, but objectively speaking, it's still quite a trek.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:54 pm

Sorry, was just injecting a bit of humor.

Anyway, I suppose the nekos of nekomura do have some kind of livestock mentality, but I'm sure there are hunters among them as well. I mean where do they get the tinies from to sell of the black market? Everyone has to make a living, and surely many will do so by gathering, scavenging, or hunting outside the safety of their mini-isolon eye. I imagine there are various levels of respect and wealth in Nekomura as well, meaning the extremely poor have no choice but to do so. Also, do we know anything about Neko population growth? Do they have litters or is it unusual to have more than one child at a time like humans?
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:41 am

Shady Knight wrote:


Anyway, Hatty, no, I think it's been said that the two eyes don't overlap, not by a long shot.  It's easy to forget just how truly massive just this part of Felarya is supposed to be for humans.  I think the idea is that Nekomura is at the very least a few hours away from Negav on foot, and a good chunk of it is spent outside the range of either eye.  By Felaryan standards, it's a tiny distance, but objectively speaking, it's still quite a trek.

I always figuried that Nekomura would be more than couple of days away.

The Isolon eye barrior doesn't kill gaints straight away, only causes discomfort. They would have to penetrate deep enougth for the warding spell to become lethal. However given that gaints are...well gaints, they can very quickly navigate over land in moments that would take us hours. (they arn't moving faster per say, just that their steps are crossing roughtly a hundred times more land than a avarage human due to their height. Without magical or technogical aid the slowest gaint will always easily navigate cross land in less time than the fastest human.) That gives me the impression that the isolon eye feild would have to cover quite abit of space in order to work exactly the way Karbo describes it. We are probably thinking of a hundred miles at bare minium.

If we went with that, it would take a vechile going at 30 MPH over three hours to from Negav to the barrior's edge. (and possibly take gaints under that to get from the edge to Negav, creating a very tight error margin, if the barriror fails for any reason then Negav would have less than a few hours to mobilize any nearby Isolon Fist patrols. Though that would varie depending on the gaint's size and whenever it is casualy walking or making a mad dash for it.)

a human walking at avarage speed of 3.1 miles per hour (plus time given for rest) would make it in a few days.

So if Nekomura's barrior doesn't overlap with Negav's, then it has to be even further away, possibly a extra day's walk given that their barrior is smaller than Negav's

So I think it would be roughtly three days walk from Negav to Nekomura at the very least.

Though it probably would be even more considering I am only guessing at a Felarya gaint's speed (over 50 MPH) though I am aware that's probably not even half of what a hundred foot tall person should be capable of. I just used it to give a basic understanding of how big the barrior would have to be in order for the different levels of discomfort of predators to have effect (make it too small and they would stride into the lethal zone in a few steps and die straight away before they realised something was wrong)

Shady Knight wrote:
We don't even know if they hunt regularly like their feral cousins or if they have a livestock mentality.  All that's known about Nekomura itself, in the four lines that don't cover its history that is, is that it's rustic and that it has simple dwellings both on the ground and the treetops.

It really depends on the coverage of their own 'Anti-gaint feild' and the size of the Neko population. Those will dictate how much land they have available for Agriculture. But given that nekos are normaly portrayed finding it hard to 'resist the call of nature' when it comes to Tinies, chances are many Nekos there would take up hunting simply because it's in their blood.

So I would guess they would do both, lifestock so they have sullplies to fall back on, and hunting for fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:28 am

I added some of your suggestions on the Nekomura page ^^
And I agree this is time to develop this place. For example the type of governance it uses.
As I see it , it's essentially a small city state that remain independent from Negav, despite the mini isolon eye.
I imagine it could be ruled by a few clans or families that essentially agree between themselves ( after a lot of bickering and bargaining ) to elect a mayor of sort. What do you think ?

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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:10 am

The type of government could be interesting.  On the surface, it looks like a city-state, but in reality, it's essentially a fiefdom, given protection from Negav in exchange for what it looks to be military service as scouts.  The way they choose a ruler, I guess trying to aim for a democracy make sense to be completely different from Negav, and it shows that they're more advanced than a typical neko settlement, which also makes sense given they're descended from city folks.  That said, I'm not exactly sure how some clans or families seem to have more power than others, and this makes me wonder just how big Nekomura really is, as maybe it would be the size of a small town.  More detail about this and the town itself could be elaborated on a bit.

Also, "vassalization" isn't a word.  The proper term would be vassalage.


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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:03 pm

I don't know about the idea of having only some of the families in Nekomura holding power. Like Shady, I imagined Nekomura to be a pretty small place overall, and even if it isn't, I think a more equal-rights democratic process would suit Nekomura's personality more.
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:52 am

Alright I'll try to look more into something of a democratic type of rule then. It makes sense they would like to difference themselves from Negav's oligarchy ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:37 am

If you don't want to have something resembling what several countries in our world use, we could have each family in Nekomua represented by one person, like the head of the family, in the voting process. Each family discusses who they will vote for among themselves, and each family counts as one vote. That might be difficult for larger families, though...
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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:49 am

It would be a nice excuse to make family gatherings and such, though, specially if they are supposed to be very social.

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PostSubject: Re: Nekomura/Negav Relationships and Neko Scouts   

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