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 I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!

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PostSubject: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:19 pm

So, since Scryangi brought up people using explosives while in someone's throat, which admittedly sounds like a pretty foolproof plan, I was thinking if we ever were going to address that.

I addressed it by saying it's not likely, given human nature, that some jerk would blow himself up as plan B, in case of failure. Then today I read something, a manga, where they addressed a big blind spot in my reasoning: people who went all the way to fight bugs in Mars with their superpowers wouldn't quite be thinking the same way I do. I assumed everyone had or at least perceived they had a choice. Some people may see themselves as cornered since long before they went to Felarya, or they might be just jerks/perfectionists/PCs and decided they'd head asplode anyone who got the best of them.

Let's be frank, there's an ulterior motive why we discourage this kind of stuff. It just doesn't fit anyone's vision (Except yours. Yes, you!). But if we think through it instead of saying "it's just so", I was wondering... what are the implications of this?

Here's what I think this would imply.

======

-We could start by assuming explosives just aren't that easy to get a hold of. Maybe Negav prohibits imports (or the worlds it trades with don't export dynamite {without a permit}). So adventurers can't get explosives nily-wily, because they won't find a seller just by asking nicely: they would have trouble, even then, finding enough dynamite for everybody.

-On the other hand, someone WILL get explosives. I mean, if it exists, someone has to have it! The fact they aren't known for blowing predators up must mean that settling for a 1:1 kill ratio is still not good enough for the people who have enough explosives for everybody. They can beat predators, losing on average less than one person per predator (not per encounter, but per predator, so every predator takes out approximately one person, if they're lucky, over all their hit-and-runs). Does this mean the Isolon Fist and the Kensha Hussars are hogging all the dynamite?

-Alternatively, if we look at immediate, short-term and long-term consequences... well, dynamite is a great idea overall. On the immediate term you get a 1:1 kill ratio, which is nothing to sneeze at. On the long-term, you might terminate every single last one of 'em, and isn't that great? It's the short-term consequences that may leave you at a disadvantage. Sooner or later they might wise up to that they can't eat you, and might want to kill you instead. That'd be a huge disadvantage for you on the short term: being killed is much faster (and easier) than being eaten, and that'd no doubt make things worse for yourself and maybe everyone else.

This one is pretty unconvincing, though, because the immediate gains would outweigh pretty much everything. Making things harder on everyone else won't deter anyone, after all.

-There's always what I first tried, that people get skittish where it comes to blowing up, and assuming they still liked living, they'd rather try and use the explosives as leverage (which could fail in embarassing ways). My assumption was rational, but it was borne out of a false premise: that the primary objective of a cornered potential suicide bomber would be to stay alive if possible, so as to complete whatever task they sought to complete when they put on that bomb as insurance. The guy may just have it in for them, after all!

-Maybe, just maybe, carrying enough explosives on you while doing stuff is a disadvantage. Armchair generals complain that the US guys go in overloaded, which gives you the impression nobody would load themselves that much unless ordered by a superior. Since we have mostly adventurers, no one would be burdening themselves that much.

This isn't gonna cut it, however, as no one can agree on what to shed, so I'm sure someone will shed essentials like food, water, and maybe pants, all just to carry more explosives. Each brick of C4 can weigh a pound and a quarter. Five pounds of plastic kaboom aren't THAT heavy, and for a trained person, they don't cause feelings of ohmygodimgonnadie. A grenade could have 6.5 ounces of explosives in it, while weighing just about a pound too. Nowadays the loadout for a soldier is... what? I get a lot of answers, suggesting 2-4, but that's before some nutty adventurer shows up carrying 99 grenades* just in case they could run out of happy fun packs explodium.

Does this make you think anything?



*99 grenades:
 

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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:01 pm

Well, sorry, but cannot stop myself:



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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:36 am

Good points all around.
Another consideration is the ability of a would-be kamikaze to blow himself up whilst still being swallowed. A lot of the more famous predators are said to have bomb-proof stomachs (e.g. Crisis), so one would have to arm and detonate everything before getting there. In a human this takes about 7 seconds, during which the erstwhile prey is getting mashed on all sides by slimy esophagus and thus has his movement restricted. I suppose if you went in with a pile of dynamite strapped to your chest with a string tied to your thumb to detonate it, you could manage this, but at that point you'd basically have to have planned to get caught. Most people prefer to not get captured in the first place.
And if you did walk around the jungle with a bunch of dynamite strapped to yourself, a smart predator would strip you first, as some already do. You could rig the bomb to go off by itself if anyone tampers with it, but again, this is the kind of thing a suicide bomber would do rather than an adventurer who wants a last resort.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:46 am

Stabs wrote:
It just doesn't fit anyone's vision (Except yours. Yes, you!).  
Why thank you. ^_^

So, just to get everyone on the same page, this article was inspired by my Bomb Belts. Their intended use is not to play kamikaze, but it's certainly possible. The idea is that when one grenade is not enough, the entire belt can be thrown for maximum effect. An emergency trigger primes all grenades at once, which could be done with anything from a creatively applied wire which pulls out all the pins, to simply pressing all buttons at once, depending on the tech level.

While I doubt the average person would pull the plug when swallowed, fear, love, or duty, can cause one to do stupid things.

*Edit*:
 

And what if you just make some illusion or puppet carry these? One of my telekinetic characters had the habit of manipulating a cloaked puppet to fight in her stead, while she was safely hidden. The puppet's aim might have been atrocious, but some flamers and hidden grenades are often enough, especially since this proxy can not get wounded. ((Inspired by the Puppeteers from the Village Hidden in the Sand.))

The reason I wrote that article was because I believe that if Felarya was real, some predators would die when swallowing fighters alive--usually these people carry stuff designed to kill their target. I do not wish predators to lose that beautiful innocence they have, that feeling of superiority, so all I wish is to raise some awareness. Momma predator teaching her children that this part of the prey stings, so remove it.

Faulkner.:
 


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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:50 am

The big issue I see is that if you consider how big Felarya is, and how long it would take to even see a large pred...it pretty much means you'll be walking about the forest with high powered explosives streapped around your body for at least a couple of days.

So the real problem there would be not blowing yourself by accident in the mean time...



or not becoming a target for bandits who might want to knock you out from behind and steal your gear. (There's tragic irony for you...meant to blow up a pred, actually end up accidently handing over massive explosives to thugs who will most likely use it on people.)

I don't think getting explosives would be an issue for an adventurer, getting reliable decent quality explosives is a different matter though...unless your a military...but by that point we are talking about an invasion and...well we know what happens in Felarya when things escalate.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:34 am

Bringing explosives from whatever world an adventurer is from, assuming it's advanced enough to have quality explosives of course, isn't too far-fetched, but I don't see it happen unless the guy has a few screws loose. I can understand why people might not be too keen on the idea of carrying a bomb in their backpack that could potentially go off on its own, it can be a bit stressful at times. Not to mention, let's say someone did go the suicide bomber route and succeeded, it doesn't change the fact that he's dead. Oh sure, maybe you took down the giant naga along with you, that's just one out of potentially thousands. It hardly makes a difference. Plus, people are just as likely, if not more likely, to die from the giant wild animals and man-eating plants out there.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:33 am

Overall though, I would thought most rational people would be putting more effort into packing things to stop them from being caught in the first place rather than put alot of effort and packing based on the immediate assumption that they are most certainly are going to get eaten by a predator. If they are so damn sure it's going to happen, then why even go out there in the first place?

As for the irrational and suicidal people......well they proberly won't make it that far, there's also no gurrentee that will even pick an appropriate target. I don't know many cases where suicidal nutcases with explosives actually targeted the people they were really upset with...because they are...well....irrational! Once you're in that mindset, then merely inflicting damage on the nearest related thing will do.
They are more likely to pack explosives and walk to Motamo Docks and blow up the citizens there. "They are close enougth to predators right? And it's much easier! Job done!"
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:25 am

To be fair, it pays to have contingency plans in case you do get caught out there. Thing is, those plans are best suited to help you escape rather than to take on the giant monsters. Think of it like a thief sneaking in a guarded area. If he gets caught, fighting isn't going to be a good Plan B.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:46 pm

To be fair though, explosives, even on a small scale, will at the very least cause most predators (Sapient) to pause, from stinging pain or confusement, or both.
Non sapient won't take well to pain, and might take a moment, which is worth a lot - that single extra moment.

Thieves aim is to escape, but many had/have weapons anyhow, just in case, or to incapacitate guards if needed.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:46 pm

Look people, grenades are standard issue military equipment. Do we expect our soldiers to blow themselves up? Heck no, so why are you all going on about "they expect to die! Suicide squad, attack!"?

Why wouldn't you pack grenades when going into Felarya? And why would you not wear them someplace where you can toss them in a flash--like, in a belt along your torso?
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:12 pm

Simple.  Because grenades, assault rifle, and other modern standard-issue military equipment is absurdly rare in Felarya.  This may be news to you, but culturally, Negav is more inclined towards sword and sorcery than firearms and artillery, so they trade more with worlds that focus more on magic than technology, limiting the trade of good firearms.  Yes, you could find a gun store somewhere in the Lower Tier, but that comes with its own problems.  One, due to their rarity and how difficult it is to obtain, firearms cost an arm and a leg.  Two, unlike the bow and arrow, firearms are noisy.  Three, they're really no more effective against the giant monsters than bows are.  So because of their high price, the fact they don't blend well with stealth, and the fact they're not all that effective against the giant monsters, adventurers just don't think they're worth the investment.

Now, I'm aware that the Isolon Fist has firearms and that the Fairy Duster exists, but there are other things to keep in mind.  In the latter's case, it's a situational gun.  It works well to damage the wings of fairies, but against everything else it's a piece of crap.  If you don't run into a fairy, then it's useless.  As for the former's case, the Isolon Fist doesn't go out in the jungle just cause they can.  They hog all the best gear because they go on mission for the benefit of the city and they don't want their weapons to be commercially available in case the wrong psychopath gets his hands on the wrong weapon.

But let's pretend all of this work out, you have buffed weapons easily attainable and all that jazz.  There is one other problem: to use the weapon, you must make contact with the giant monster yourself, and if the giant monster sneaks up on you and kills you there, which is very likely to happen, your weapons are useless.  Keep in mind that nagas and such can think on the same basic levels human can.  They can strategize before striking so that you can't use your weapon.

Bottom line: there is no magic "deal with predator easy" trick.  You either find a way to run and hide when you're spotted, or you're dead.  That's just how Felarya rolls, bub. Think of them like the monsters in a RPG that aren't given stats, you just can't take them on. If you fight a giant, you just lose.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:39 pm

Hmm, isn't Felarya a hubbub of cultures from many worlds, and several of these are sci-fi with military hardware that Negav craves?

But let's ignore that for now, and stick to classical magic and witchcraft. As long as they know more about alchemy then the ancient Chinese then black powder exists in Felarya. Furthermore, in the Dark Ages the bakeries had to be away from the homes because apparently flour can explode. So far, I'm not even considering Fire In A Bottle, or something like that.

But let's say that there really are no bombs available to 'adventurers'. Do you know what they write in the basic "Class acts"? Always carry a back-up weapon, like a knife in your boot, "'cause you never know when you need it, like if a monster tries to swallow you whole."

See, this is the big problem of predators. No matter if they sneak up or overpower you, in the end they all put you in their throat. In fact, many adventurers wear spikes on their armour and gauntlets. Wouldn't those hurt the throat? Or worse, wouldn't these cause you to get stuck, and the predator chokes?

Or hey, this is a magical world. Why wouldn't adventurers not carry a Pyromancer's glove or something like that? Not all weapons are useless when swallowed. Or why not just use a fire spell?

But do you know what the real kicker is? This would only make Vore better in my opinion. Then the predator slowly disarms you and makes you powerless.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:24 pm

You just listed yet another reason why those options are meaningless, they can just strip you of all that gear. They see spikes on your armor? They can just rip it off. Hell, if you're wearing armor at all, there's a good chance they'll just get rid of it just so you're easier to swallow. You're concealing a knife in your boot? It won't help you if you're literally stripped naked. Even if they don't, you can't use it if you can't reach for your boot and have enough room to move your arm to perform a worthwhile stab, which I hate to break it to you, ain't gonna happen when you're swallowed cause you're literally being squeezed through a tube, and once your in its stomach, you may be able to stab the walls, but the blade is so tiny by comparison that it's just going to cause mild annoyance. As for the pyromancer glove and such, have you considered the possibility that magic weapons like that are very expensive and thus not many people can afford it? Like I said, there's no easy out in Felarya. You either get caught or you don't, and if you get caught, you're fucked.

Also, Felarya, or really just Negav, being a hub of various cultures from many worlds, is a fallacy. Yes, there are many people from different culture in Negav, but they have no true influence. They are just so many and they are all such a minority because of sheer diversity, they have as much influence on the culture of Negav as tourists do. If you want to be really accurate, Felarya houses several cultures, but they're not all meshed together. The only two known cultures that have high tech equipment are the Vishmitals, the Delurans, and the Miratans. The Vishmitals care only for themselves, so you're not getting their crap if you're not a Vishmital yourself. The Delurans are isolationist and don't like strangers, plus their gear rust inexplicably fast so it doesn't help. The Miratans live all the way in Frost Peak, which good luck surviving there long enough to find them, if you even know where their base is in the first place. The rest is largely geared toward low tech, with Negav being closer to magitech, which they keep only for their military. Everything else is mostly low or low-ish tech with no military power, and thus no "Get away from predator free" stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:34 pm

Well, that is what my whole article was about: to make people see that predators are not invincible. Mission accomplished, so now predators can become hunters instead of just spoiled brats who pluck prey as if it was fruit.

It would be so cute to see momma naga teach her children how pyromancers need to be eaten with some water, while knights need to have those pointy bits removed.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Shady knight wrote:
Also, Felarya, or really just Negav, being a hub of various cultures from many worlds, is a fallacy.  Yes, there are many people from different culture in Negav, but they have no true influence.  They are just so many and they are all such a minority because of sheer diversity, they have as much influence on the culture of Negav as tourists do.  If you want to be really accurate, Felarya houses several cultures, but they're not all meshed together.  The only two known cultures that have high tech equipment are the Vishmitals, the Delurans, and the Miratans.  The Vishmitals care only for themselves, so you're not getting their crap if you're not a Vishmital yourself.  The Delurans are isolationist and don't like strangers, plus their gear rust inexplicably fast so it doesn't help.  The Miratans live all the way in Frost Peak, which good luck surviving there long enough to find them, if you even know where their base is in the first place.  The rest is largely geared toward low tech, with Negav being closer to magitech, which they keep only for their military.  Everything else is mostly low or low-ish tech with no military power, and thus no "Get away from predator free" stuff.


To be quite the corrector when it comes to technological races Shady, have you ever heard of something called the "Sphere of Influence". Races with technological supremacy always love to do that in some way or another. Meaning, as selfish as vishmitals are, like it saids in Da wiki, they're good negotiators, meaning a less moral/prideful and underground vishmital wouldn't mind selling tech in the lower levels of the city just to make a few bucks. Oh yeah and relating back to the tech musing topic awhile back. "People will always make their own variations or ideas off of others." Which means that if your a theif or criminal that is into technology rather than magic,-heck no! lets even say you're into magic. Stealing or translating a scroll or learning to attempt to make military hardware is rather easy and I've seen one person IRL do exactly that. Regardless agreeing with you, grabbing and arming so said tech on military grade level unless its surplus isn't easy. So from my mind of well armed adventurers I expect a few to know some nifty and versatile spells followed with your technocrat that managed to make his or her own scrappy powered exoskeleton. meanwhile we got a knight like character that has an enchanted sword (In which, explaining that magic or gaining that kind of technology is a tedious process in this setting). That shows they invested a part of their lives into their equipment and gear or just got fortunate enough to steal/salvage it. Finding a bomb isn't hard if your looking for one at all,criminals do that with weapons and documents all the time in reality. I just don't want to hear how people get excessive amounts with no logical background or mythos supporting that.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:04 am

Ravaginv Vixens wrote:
I just don't want to hear how people get excessive amounts with no logical background or mythos supporting that.

That was a well-thought out response from you, and it's true that Felaryan adventurers should not be all elite warriors. The idea is not "introducing pred-killer tactics", but explaining how these have always been here, and why they have so little impact.

My standard explanation is that Felarya is simply too big for that. Even if adventurers could somehow buy a dozen bombs before entering the jungle, how long would they last? As soon as they run into some big instinct or man-eating plant, then they're down a few bombs. Not to mention that the noise might attract some more. In the end, they might take down one predator, but there are more predators in Felarya than there are bombs.


Shady Knight wrote:
You either get caught or you don't, and if you get caught, you're fucked.

I quite agree. Have you seen my OC? Being natural cowards, she entered Felarya with few weapons but relies on camouflage and a remote viewing spell.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:57 pm

Scryangi wrote:
So, just to get everyone on the same page, this article was inspired by my Bomb Belts. Their intended use is not to play kamikaze, but it's certainly possible.
Scryangi wrote:
Look people, grenades are standard issue military equipment. Do we expect our soldiers to blow themselves up? Heck no, so why are you all going on about "they expect to die! Suicide squad, attack!"? Why wouldn't you pack grenades when going into Felarya? And why would you not wear them someplace where you can toss them in a flash--like, in a belt along your torso?
[/quote]
We've had this debate from long before you joined, Scryangi, pretty much from the inception, as you would expect. The issue isn't all explosives- even without departing from the wiki I can think of a way to get explosives for cheap. Just the use of explosives as a kind of death throes, which we never properly refuted- and perhaps, we shouldn't.

Shady Knight wrote:
Oh sure, maybe you took down the giant naga along with you, that's just one out of potentially thousands.  It hardly makes a difference.
DarkOne wrote:
The big issue I see is that if you consider how big Felarya is, and how long it would take to even see a large pred...it pretty much means you'll be walking about the forest with high powered explosives streapped around your body for at least a couple of days.
Scryangi wrote:
The reason I wrote that article was because I believe that if Felarya was real, some predators would die when swallowing fighters alive--usually these people carry stuff designed to kill their target.
Scryangi wrote:
My standard explanation is that Felarya is simply too big for that. Even if adventurers could somehow buy a dozen bombs before entering the jungle, how long would they last? As soon as they run into some big instinct or man-eating plant, then they're down a few bombs. Not to mention that the noise might attract some more. In the end, they might take down one predator, but there are more predators in Felarya than there are bombs.
I believe if Felarya was real, we wouldn't be. Razz Otherwise, we wouldn't make sense. Why do those guys let Felarya even exist if they could just nuke it out and live forever and ever on the soil? Prometheus, they can't have the fire!
But I doubt it would make zero difference. I don't really have any way of calculating the population density of predators, but even if you gave each a territory of no more than 100 square miles (fairies excluded), there would still be a finite number of them for as long as Felarya was finite, and it would be more finite than you'd think if we are to expect travel times to add up. Predator generations are also longer than ours. We'd eventually clear 'em out, one way or another, so long as we paced ourselves (and they didn't make a concerted effort to clear us out too). Also, there are ways to get a naga's attention on you. They might get suspicious, but there's no reason why you shouldn't at least try.
For some reason, I envision Felarya as something that isn't "way too big to ever fight", but "just a little too big to fight right now". There have been conquerors whose reigns spanned far and wide, and lasted for centuries. It might not happen today. Maybe not tomorrow, in a week, or a year, maybe even a decade, but if the trend ever began, it could take. I like leaving the implication that Felarya might one day be conquered again- even if all of us would rather never see it happen.
Though if it did...:
 


Scryangi wrote:
And what if you just make some illusion or puppet carry these? One of my telekinetic characters had the habit of manipulating a cloaked puppet to fight in her stead, while she was safely hidden. The puppet's aim might have been atrocious, but some flamers and hidden grenades are often enough, especially since this proxy can not get wounded. ((Inspired by the Puppeteers from the Village Hidden in the Sand.))
If someone slurps up a giant bomb, it's safe to assume they would explode, Scry. Hence why you don't see me joining debates on power levels- I don't know how much is too much, and even the littlest thing can go a long way. In this case, something as simple as a puppet can be used, together with a barrel of fresh and dry gunpowder, to get a 1:1 kill ratio on the stuff that makes the setting what it is.



Shady Knight wrote:
Simple.  Because grenades, assault rifle, and other modern standard-issue military equipment is absurdly rare in Felarya.  This may be news to you, but culturally, Negav is more inclined towards sword and sorcery than firearms and artillery, so they trade more with worlds that focus more on magic than technology, limiting the trade of good firearms.  Yes, you could find a gun store somewhere in the Lower Tier, but that comes with its own problems.  One, due to their rarity and how difficult it is to obtain, firearms cost an arm and a leg.  Two, unlike the bow and arrow, firearms are noisy.  Three, they're really no more effective against the giant monsters than bows are.
You keep saying that, and it's always news to me.
We already know some adventurers own guns, a sufficient number to know it's not just one. Price and availability are a nonissue: once an adventurer owns a gun, he has a 100% chance of owning a gun. Also, no weapon is really effective against giant predators- the wielder's skill is the big thing here, and most people have an easier time learning how to pull a trigger than how to reload a crossbow. And two, dying is pretty quiet, so there's that, too. Noise may cause short-term problems, but it could solve immediate problems, ergo, it will be done by anyone who doesn't own a bow or a crossbow.
Thinking of it, lack of caliber interchangeability may be the greater issue. If some world uses .57 as a workhorse caliber and another uses .31, the adventurers from each world would be equally screwed if they ended up here and could only freely buy 9mm, 45-cal and 22-cal bullets. I wonder about the handloading and brass refilling industry that might develop to circumvent the issue?

Scryangi wrote:
Well, that is what my whole article was about: to make people see that predators are not invincible. Mission accomplished, so now predators can become hunters instead of just spoiled brats who pluck prey as if it was fruit.
It would be so cute to see momma naga teach her children how pyromancers need to be eaten with some water, while knights need to have those pointy bits removed.
Only you can make things the way you want them, Scry. If you want momma naga teaching her children how to eat a pyromancer, go ahead and write it.

For everyone else, that might not make or break the vore- and in my case, surprise is very important. I can't just show you momma naga teach her children, I want the children to show their work only at the moment of truth. How do you stop an exploding man? Maybe they could smell the burnt gunpowder from all the grenades they had used before, and figure they didn't want to try any jawbreakers, but human is fine. Maybe the man brings too much explosives, and the predator, even without knowing that the stuff blows up, serendipitously decides to rip out the wrapping this time just because there was too much of it. Maybe they eat them in twos or threes, and while blowing themselves up is fine by them, having to take out their friends too with them proves too much. Maybe a nervous jaw snaps the bomber's hands in half and keeps them from triggering the mechanism, the predator in their clumsiness offering them some unwanted, infuriating compassion for having bitten them by accident, leading our hero/ine to suffer through the cognitive dissonance in addition to being thwarted. Sadistic, I know, but I think it's worth more of a read than some schmuck showing us he's got a bomb and is fresh out of fucks to give.

Scryangi wrote:
Faulkner.:
 
Let's keep this to PMs, shall we.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:00 am

Stabs wrote:
Predator generations are also longer than ours. We'd eventually clear 'em out,

Wait, what?! Shocked  But, that's not right. "98% of the adventurers get eaten". With how dangerous Felarya is, wouldn't they breed at least as fast as us? And they are so good at evading death by natural causes that by now there should be lots and lots of them, right? And they would cover each other's territory, as they have different hunting tactics.

I've been operating under that assumption all this time, as I thought that predators would be short on prey instead of the other way around. Felarya doesn't need more prey stuff, but reasons how the predators are still here.

*Edit* Well, how about evolution? Shouldn't that same innate magic that makes their 2 cm skin nearly invulnerable, also protect their throat? Or maybe because of their size and native status they heal a lot faster from the healing properties of the soil? I mean, they're made up off a lot of it, and cover enough mass for a thousand humanoids. Shouldn't they like, regenerate?

Or what if their throat is covered in thick scar tissue from swallowing stuff all the time?

Oh, and can someone remove that 98% from the wiki? It's what I based my entire view of Felarya on.

Stabs wrote:
Let's keep this to PMs, shall we.

Didn't we already talk about this a few days back? I'm just saying that it's not that hard to find a person willing to blow up. Humans are spiteful and easily frightened, what with us being evolved from monkeys.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:30 am

Scryangi wrote:
Stabs wrote:
Predator generations are also longer than ours. We'd eventually clear 'em out,
Wait, what?! Shocked  But, that's not right. "98% of the adventurers get eaten".  With how dangerous Felarya is, wouldn't they breed at least as fast as us? And they are so good at evading death by natural causes that by now there should be lots and lots of them, right? And they would cover each other's territory, as they have different hunting tactics.
If you want a corollary, 99% of predators get eaten. So no, Felarya doesn't have preds crawling out of the woodwork either. It can't, and overlapping territories won't help: there's a limit to how little food anything can subsist on. Barring fairies wantonly buttsexing conservation of mass for the lulz, or any kind of MAGIC! the amount of food in any certain territory has to be finite, and the same goes for the speed at which it replenishes. Past a certain level, they will (eventually) run out of food: past another threshold, they will be the food.

Nekos are predators too, and despite the existence of predators for them too in the wild, they exist, they thrive, and they're frequent. Humans can be considered predators, and they still thrive, they still exist in the wilderness, though they might not be as frequent.

Lots and lots of them is relative, but I assume in 2069 AU, Felarya is close to the equilibrium point for predator populations, where young, not yet grown predators of a given species are considered a staple food of predators of all other species. So nagas eat mantoids before they start shedding their shells and growing to 100 feet tall, fairies eat nagas before they start shedding their skin and growing to 100 feet tall, harpies fish guppy mermaids before they reach the sea where they are free to swell to 100 feet tall, and dryads eat slug girls before they reach the age where they swell to 100 feet tall.* It fits what we've been told.

*According to some writers, predators keep a consistent scale from birth to adulthood, rather than growing to 5832 times their size over the course of two or three decades once they reach a certain age. It's up to you to decide which one works best for you.

Scryangi wrote:
I've been operating under that assumption all this time, as I thought that predators would be short on prey instead of the other way around. Felarya doesn't need more prey stuff, but reasons how the predators are still here.
Depends on the writer. Most predators aren't exactly short on prey- but they don't stay fed by passing up easy meals: they stay fed by eating anything and everything they can. Yes, even unicorns.

Scryangi wrote:
*Edit* Well, how about evolution? Shouldn't that same innate magic that makes their 2 cm skin nearly invulnerable, also protect their throat? Or maybe because of their size and native status they heal a lot faster from the healing properties of the soil? I mean, they're made up off a lot of it, and cover enough mass for a thousand humanoids. Shouldn't they like, regenerate? Or what if their throat is covered in thick scar tissue from swallowing stuff all the time?
Evolution is a strange assumption here. Take one long, good look at the wiki, and tell me you would believe, had you a number of confirmed possible methods for their genesis, that those cute monster girls (or anything about Felarya) evolved naturally. Would you disbelieve genetic engineering was responsible? How about a divine origin, if you're into fantasy? Teleporter accident maybe? Couldn't they have just incarnated themselves out of the wild dreams of a mad deviant because of MAGIC!? Are the giant versions separate, or do they just have an overdose of Herakleophorbia IV?

They don't regenerate, and they aren't invulnerable, because they were never meant to be defined by their power and toughness (well, maybe some of them). Crisis isn't meant to be a fighter, she's meant to be a hunter. She ambushes adventurers, she doesn't walk through armies gobbling people up. If she were, you can believe she'd be able to shrug off antitank guided missiles and railguns, as is common in some rampage fiction. Heck, in some stories, nuking the monsters only makes them bigger and hungrier: this isn't the case here, because she's not fighting the Spartans.

Scryangi wrote:
Oh, and can someone remove that 98% from the wiki? It's what I based my entire view of Felarya on.
the wiki wrote:
76. 98% of explorers have been eaten or will be eaten by a native creature of Felarya. If you're one of the 2% not in this group, go near the giant tree and await your prize.
That was in the rumors section. It's gallows humour. "Go near the Giant Tree and await your prize."

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PostSubject: Re: I'm goin' ta BLOW UP!   Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:28 am

Quote :
You keep saying that, and it's always news to me.
We already know some adventurers own guns, a sufficient number to know it's not just one. Price and availability are a nonissue: once an adventurer owns a gun, he has a 100% chance of owning a gun.
Have you forgotten your thread about Tech Level Musing? Karbo went out in the open and said these:

Karbo wrote:
yes could find shops dealing with modern guns in the lower district but they are less common than swords and much more expensive.

Karbo wrote:
there is probably a cultural element rather than an entirely practical one to that yes. There are firearms and they are not "rare" per say. For example if you go to the lower tier of Negav to seek one, you won't have to search too much for it. It's just less common than a shop selling good old bladed weapons. You could say old habits don't go away easily. Or it could be that the material to create ammunitions/gunpowder are a little less available to Negav as well.

The bottom line is that firearms, and by the same token I assume modern weaponry too, are less common in Negav. Yes, you'll find the occasional people out there with guns, but the point is that they're not as common as the standard fantasy weapons. Still, looking back at those quotes, I guess I severely overestimated their rarity, so you're correct that price and availability are a non-issue. Personally, I don't think price and availability are a complete non-issue, I like to think that there's not that many people in Negav that are knowledgeable in ballistics, but maybe not to the point of being super rare.


Anyway, back on the topic at hand, I think the idea that very few giant predators, both hybrids and pure beasts, make it to adulthood is a good way to picture Felarya. It's grisly, but that's just how nature rolls, the strong prey on the weak to survive.
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