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 How much do Giants know about Felarya?

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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:37 pm

A little while ago, I had a discussion with Nick about how much Giants know about Felarya, specifically how they know the name of the locales, besides obviously being easier for the reader to know what they're talking about. It went something like this.

http://comments.deviantart.com/1/500810429/3688538650

With his blessing, I thought to bring that up here for additional feedback. An addendum to this discussion is the Guardians. A few times, people in Felarya seem to know what the Guardians are, even if they don't know their names, and even referring to them as The Guardians. But would that be true, or is it just us writers thinking they know more than they normally would? Aside from fairies, I don't see how the present day giants would know about them, or even what they are called.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:03 pm

Unless they're all alone since birth or at very young age, I think knowledge will be passed down from generations to generations, or between friends, or from what the proactively seek for, then get passed down to next generation again.. The knowledge will get accumulated through generation, though it may differ due to the way of teaching.

For example, if a giantess's father calls Evernight Forest "Forest of No Sun", the she will call it "Forest of No Sun", until gets corrected or learn the real name and decides to call the place faithfully to its name.

For Guardian, I think it is something that can be passed down with the same methods too.

"Daddy, who is the strongest person in Felarya", asked a young Giantess
"I don't know, but I heard from your great-grandmother that it is the Guardians", answered the Giantess' father.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:50 pm

I always wrote with the assumption that predators have limited information about the world they live in, (Which is why I had a character call Negav as 'The human city' when talking to faries, the faries understand 'city' like they do 'Kingdom', but they didn't know or even care what it's name was, all they knew was that they coulden't get to it)

I think the more knowledgeable the predators are depicted, the more human they start to seem to the point of breaking character. It gets harder to believe in their surposed uncivilised nature when they often seem to have a better grasp of the world than organized humans do.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:36 pm

I can see Vivian and maybe some other select few giants to have that kind of knowledge, but otherwise, I can only see the average giant refer to locations and such using generic terms and not their actual names.

I get knowledge being passed down, but there's two things to keep in mind: one, that knowledge needs to be acquired in the first place, and two, it needs to be pertinent enough that they'll remember it. Already, knowing of the existence of the Guardians is pretty shaky since they interact so little with the world, I don't see how or where they could get the name of Guardians. Fairies I understand since their ruler is one of them, and some of the more civilized races that hold records of the few times they did appear too, but for most giants, I just don't see how or where they could get the name of Guardians.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:41 pm

Giants...A person that is just larger than your "smaller" residents. You're going to have to look at it like that, and what i mean is. If they can get around as much as a "adventurer" or a "Wanderer" they can learn social names and structure as much as anyone else could. Your real question i think is how native giants feel about the term guardians or other legends. Which would then Delve into whether the giant is foreign or indigenous to felarya, That would then fall into the topic that tkh suggested into "here's what my father said" and as it seems now, there's been tribes,clans,and groups of giants that have lived for a few centuries to a millenium to pass down their heritage in knowledge. And i mean a few...Since most of them like being interactive with each other as much as they are a rare sight to see, their size makes them an Apex predator (Yeah they get eaten too but far less of a chance to get in someone or something's stomach) which means they move around and socialize with each other or their sentient prey. They can pass that information to them and then it becomes either legendary or observation to factual truth to those more curious. So yes I'd imagine giants would know quite a bit if they were born or lived in it a long time. If they're foreign, they're no less different in knowledge then their smaller associates and go do things through here say and a need to know basis until they get to felarya itself, Then complimenting what darkone said, They can choose whether to be civil or highly independent with their circumstances in interaction with civilizations and their societal/social structures. That's how I see it anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:48 am

Nooo, my question is how did they even acquire that knowledge in the first place. I go with the term giants because, let's all be honest here, nobody cares about human-sized nagas and crap. And if you think you're clever by saying that you do, I'm being hyperbolic. Also, while they may have had tribes then, it's pretty much stated outright in the wiki that most of those tribes have already been destroyed, which makes remembering many of those little tidbits much harder to remember, especially since oral tradition isn't a very good way of passing down knowledge in the first place, and because knowing of the Guardians doesn't help you not get killed.

As for the interaction with other giants, did you mean back then, or now? Cause, hate to break it to you, but that's mostly fan fiction stuff. It's neither been confirmed, nor denied, along with other myths like if nagas or others shed. For all we know, other giants don't interact much nowadays. Plus, even back then, most of the interactions back then were basically turf wars.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:55 am

I'm talking about now. In canon they still seem to get around and know a bit about each other. And again it makes me wonder how often they encounter adventurers. Because it seems pretty damn often in canon because of a fetish. Then again with some of these giants there's hardly any concrete history if they spent time with their families to hear some interesting rumors and things. What i'm basically telling you is that they tend to live longer than the average adventurer and even seem to keep track record of how often they meet people. That's in canon crud, and that's mostly due to the fetish side of it. As far as what's interesting of giants interacting with each other...Karbos characters seem to know somewhat about each other...Plus this question is a bit irrelevant. Since felarya has a constant fluctuation of how karbo perceive his stories. I mean yeah we know giants and predators are generally solitary now (or wait maybe they aren't since faries seems to group up all the time. See where i'm getting at?) plus weren't those naga tribes? It's funny to believe that you say most of them are destroyed yet some how 2 parents get together, raise one and leave it, and somehow all predators do that. I think that's a bit of a fallacy to make Every predator like that in my opinion. Since they can think like a human does and build social structures, but that's a different tangent altogether, and again faries seem to have large groups or family and such to where it makes me think we need to re adjust or to fix how solitary they really or. Or the phrase "Most the tribes got destroyed" or the better "Most the tribes have been destroyed and there hasn't been anything like them since." That former one leads some plausible interpretation to me that there could still be some today. Anyways i'm digressing back to the topic at hand...

The reason why i compared them to prey is because in canon despite them being solitary, they seem to get more lucky going around felarya than your average adventurer (that's right, read that again) I imagine giants have a bit more info then your regular joe shmoe on certain things in felarya because they can...And if they're intelligent about how they gather information, they're just as knowledgeable and then some than a person from negav. Again that makes the notion whether you want felarya canon when writing for giants to be a bit more mentally relaxed and not give a damn about most things or you can view them as smarter than what karbo rights and they actually take some heavy mental or physical notes each encounter they get to survive. Canon wise it goes to a fetish but can be corrected to a more universal standard to where you have both of those canon wise so long as Karbo approves of it. Don't be myopic though some predators think like my latter remark, take for instance Menyssan, she remembers names and and is told to be intelligent, but since she's a demon that fits with the fetish...We only get to see her basically laugh at and mess with people for her own pleasure, but is that all that goes on??? Are you really telling me she sticks a thumb up her ass and goes derp of a person that even semi gets her interest, and it's obvious what happens when they don't.... Going back to the point. I expect predators to know a lot by here say or play by ear for that reason. And that's why they're as noticed to getting information (If they take advantage of it) more easily then most but at the same time, having to have the quarrels of living long enough to use it as much as everyone else on the vast dimensional plane of felayra.

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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:56 am

Shady Knight wrote:

As for the interaction with other giants, did you mean back then, or now?  Cause, hate to break it to you, but that's mostly fan fiction stuff.  It's neither been confirmed, nor denied, along with other myths like if nagas or others shed.  For all we know, other giants don't interact much nowadays.  Plus, even back then, most of the interactions back then were basically turf wars.

Well if we are going to see things that way, then the real question isn't how gaints know things, but how they are even capable of speech?

It's something I always wondered, but just assumed it was one of those 'not surposed to think about it, don't take so seriously' things

but since you raised the issue, i am now asking.......how the hell can gaints speak if they've never interacted with other gaints? Shouldent they...ugh...be severely socially inept?

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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:37 am

Not necessarily. They used to form tribes, and a few of them still do, so they obviously knew how to communicate among themselves, and since the language barrier doesn't exist in Felarya as far as spoken languages are, they could obviously communicate with the other races, but chose not to cause little to no bloodshed wouldn't make for exciting high fantasy lore. The thing is though how do they know the names of the locations as Tolmeshal Forest or Pyrale Mountains, which sound like the names a human or an elf would have given them, instead of calling the Big Jungle or the Fire/Fiery Mountain, especially if giants tend to stick to one location and rarely leave their home?

I can only assume the name of other species come from their parents when they're teaching them to hunt, so they can more easily identify what is prey and what is danger.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:07 pm

I would have thought predator races would all have their own terminologies, why would every race in Felarya use the same name for things? Woulden't that imply cultural crossover? Even though most the races in Felarya don't get along?

For example I can't see Dridders using the same terminology as Nagas and vice versa, they would have their own words based on their own culture. Otherwise we would to accept that at some point Nagas and Dridders were freindly enougth to sit down and compare notes and honor each other by incorperating each other's ideas into their culture and continued to do so even when their empires fell down.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:34 pm

That is really just convenience for the readers. Coming up with a different terminology for each race would get dizzying and needlessly confusing after a while.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:43 pm

Well, on the other hand, maybe Shady already answered Dark's question.

Shady wrote:
the names of the locations as Tolmeshal Forest or Pyrale Mountains, which sound like the names a human or an elf would have given them

Perhaps predators learn a portion of what they know from prey species? We often hear about predators that like to speak with their sapient prey before eating them, maybe they use the opportunity to learn a few things? The ones that do so might then teach the other predators they know, and then they teach their friends, and so on. And that's not getting into the rare instances of pred-prey relationships.

It's not a perfect explanation, but I think it's plausible, no?
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:51 pm

No, it isn't. When it comes to predators who like to chat with their preys, it's easy to forget that these are special cases. Named characters are meant to be slightly different from the norm. The way I see it, the average predator wouldn't waste its time talking to its food. But let's say for the sake of argument that the names do come up. That predators would know the name of the locations hinges on several factors.

First, it depends on the context it comes up. A giant naga may hear a human or a group of humans mention Tolmeshal Forest, but just hearing it doesn't necessarily mean it's the forest she's in. Given how rare encounters between giants and humans are, it's very unlikely they hear the name of their locations within the context that this is the forest they are in, and not something else, like maybe it's the forest they are headed or the forest they are from in case they came from another world or were the victims of interdimensional shenanigans.

Second would be if the prey species would be willing to talk at all. I dunno about you, but in Felarya, if I were to spot a giant, my first thought would be to run the fuck away. They know that nine times out of ten they can't be reasoned with and that they'll just eat them right away. In case of the exception where they run into a giant that's open to chat first, you gotta assume two things. One, that the giant in question asks what the place is called, which is most likely going to sound like it came out of the blue. And two, that the prey is collected enough to even talk and think straight. Just saying, but staying calm and rational in the face of imminent danger ain't a skill everyone's gonna master, and it's more likely that when caught, you're gonna panic. It's very hard to consciously tell yourself to calm down when in danger.

And lastly, like I said previously, it hinges on the predator remembering the name of the locations, which there are many, and where they are. I like to see the average giant as closer to a wild animal, usually staying close to a territory they designated. The giant needs to care enough that he or she will think the name of whatever region they live in is worth committing to memory and pass down to its offsprings, if they live long enough to have offsprings.

Now, obviously, it's possible that in ye olden times when the giants were more organized, they had names for the locations they knew of. But since there's no way to prove that, it's only pure speculations. Plus, as Dark pointed, it's equally likely that if they did, they probably called them under different names, too.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:43 am

Well, there are also sources of knowledge in Felarya that aren't human. There's the Fairy Library, the Academy of Sentinels and the whole Dryad network. Even if general predators don't have enough exposure to these sources, there has to be traditions passed down the generations that carry a certain degree of knowledge about the world, too.

Although, in my opinion, giant preds don't care too much about how a place is called. Unless they are settled down in one place, names are pretty much irrelevant, since they are only used to tell other people how to locate this or that place. And why name it, anyway? Crisis wouldn't say "Let's go to Chordoni Waterfalls!", she would, rather, say "Let's go to see Vivian!" I see giants that way; for them, if the forest has nothing special, why name it? They would only know locations for who or what lives in there. Or lived. I'm pretty sure Ur-Sagol wouldn't be a name they know, but since it's a distinctive landmark, they could very well call it "The old human city"

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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:16 am

Yeah, about that Dryad Network, that's another fallacy I want to bring up: how often to Dryads become buddy-buddy with other races?  We know they're cool with fairies, but nothing anywhere states they're always super friendly or care for other races.  And yes, I know about Crisis, but like it's been said for the millionth time, Crisis is a special case and does not represent the average naga.  Plus, let's be real about the Fairy Library and the Academy of Sentinels, unless the predator in question live in the area, they're likely not even gonna know that these places exist, let alone visit them.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:41 am

Ilceren wrote:
Although, in my opinion, giant preds don't care too much about how a place is called. Unless they are settled down in one place, names are pretty much irrelevant, since they are only used to tell other people how to locate this or that place. And why name it, anyway? Crisis wouldn't say "Let's go to Chordoni Waterfalls!", she would, rather, say "Let's go to see Vivian!" I see giants that way; for them, if the forest has nothing special, why name it? They would only know locations for who or what lives in there. Or lived. I'm pretty sure Ur-Sagol wouldn't be a name they know, but since it's a distinctive landmark, they could very well call it "The old human city"

This is actual an interesting territorial concessions point. It is likely that most large critters know regions based on whom claims them. That, after all, is an important facet that they would consider - whereas an arbitrary name that does not include this information is undesirable. The dynamics of friend and foe, as well as what creatures of import may be found in an area, likely dictate what the uneducated or uninitiated would name a zone.

Shady Knight wrote:
Plus, let's be real about the Fairy Library and the Academy of Sentinels, unless the predator in question live in the area, they're likely not even gonna know that these places exist, let alone visit them.

The Fae Library yes. The AoS, no. The wiki is quite clear about the import and renown of the AoS. What is not generally known is its actual location - which leads us back to the discussion above.

Predators uninitiated with sphinxes ( which is a canonically unclear point, given how little the sphinx species is employed in stories ) or likewise employed / talented individuals ( since the AoS does not just train sphinxes anymore - but outside of the fae, who is likely / able to actually reach the AoS, and what do they typically do when they leave? We can assume if they aren't sphinx they're not going to be a guardian somewhere... ) or not near the Mist Ocean or traffic centers would be unaware.

Those that are familiar with sphinx / similarly minded individuals who were trained at AoS, do congregate with traffic zones, or live near ( how near? unclear; would most probably depend on the outflux of 'graduates' from the AoS and the influx of new sphinx recruits [ how many sphinx are born outside the Mist Ocean? ] plus your other individuals who have learned of the AoS [ it can't be so renowned if noone knows about it, and giants are amoungst its inhabitants soooooo ] ) the Mist Ocean would most likely be at least aware of what the AoS is / claims to be, even if they don't specifically know *where* it is.

The big question is, would they know it as / care to know it as the AoS - or would it simply be called Usam's ( or another reknowned sphinx; it is not clear if Usam still manages the AoS or if his duties have been passed down - though this might be an unnecessary thought, assuming we take into account how this information would have to be passed down ) domain? Or maybe 'that place the sphinx go to and hardly ever come back' - after all, it is implied that to gain admittance your test is, at least generically speaking, *finding* the AoS. The Mist Ocean is not without peril, and not all sphinx are giant ( do small sphinx get guarded by larger sphinx or are they considered food too like with nagas? Unclear ).

Though, and again this is unclear story-wise because they are so little used, sphinx actually have a pattern; at least, sentinels do. The wiki claims that sentinels form links with the Dryad Network in order to communicate with the outside world, and that they can even receive 'watch relief' from another sphinx to go and gorge themselves 'off duty'.

Given that sphinx can fly ( or have access to things like dimensional magic ), they are also able to cover a great deal more ground than that of your typical predator - which makes them excellent conduits of information ( even without the Dryad Network claim ) since this 'watch rotation' is going to have them moving about from place to place and thus in contact with other individuals territory ( how are these concerns mitigated - given a sentinel's voracious explosion upon watch relief, do other predators lay claim to the zone fight them? Definitely yes in the case of harpies - how often is this a problem? Is it enough of a problem that other species are aware of it, and thus also help in the spread of information this way? ).
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:57 am

Aether, if a predator was born in a different region, like say Frost Peak, and spent its entire life there, how in the hell would it even be able to hear about the Academy of Sentinels?  That makes no sense. And the fact that sphinxes can fly is a rubbish explanation. What would motivate them to go to other places in the first place, and what's stopping every single giant critter in the area to attack said sphinx for entering their territory? A lot of people take for granted that giant predators are one big happy family, which also makes no sense.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:59 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Aether, if a predator was born in a different region, like say Frost Peak, and spent its entire life there, how in the hell would it even be able to hear about the Academy of Sentinels?  That makes no sense.

You seriously underestimate the power of word of mouth. More importantly, sphinxes are horribly underutilised. Felarya is a place of treasure and ruin; it is purportedly filled with the stuff. You know, the thing that sphinxes supposedly guard? I'm not saying every individual is going to know every particular of every thing, but most of the giants do congregate to some degree ( even if just with their kind ).

Different individuals are going to care at varying rates. I personally think that most of them are going to identify regions based on what is in that region, to the limits of their knowledge. Agreed, Felaryan giants do not get anything resembling an education ( on the majority ). This, I would most probably say, most often leads to some interesting misunderstandings. I disagree though, that there is no way for them to get the information, or that this is nonsensical ( particularly given the givens ).

Any region that receives a decent amount of traffic is going to start comparing knowledge - either in the form of trade or war ( does not need to actually be what we think of as war - can be just battle, territorial otherwise etc ). There aren't many common factors for the spread of information across Felarya; adventurers ( may or may not have knowledge of Felaryan regions ), dimensional displacements ( will not have any knowledge most probably ), Dryad Networks, and our aforementioned sphinxes ( which can apparently be connected to the latter, and arguably are more mobile ).

Generally, adventurers are 'food' - so we can mostly discount them from the giant population as a primary means of communicating coherent ideas ( unless they are a reconnaissance-in-force, but such things are frowned upon in Felarya; makes it too easy to kill off the giants ). Giants don't talk to food, but they would conceivably talk about food with other giants in their family / (eu)social group. Where it comes from, and where it is going to - so we can still get a spread of information this way.

The AoS, regardless of what you think of it, is stated as well renowned. It cannot get that way in a vacuum, and it stands to reason that the way it got so well renowned was adventurers running into the sentinels seeking Felarya's treasures. The Frost Peak's treasures are not spoken of ( though rumours of the purported values of the Navroze Mountains are, where the peak is located ), but that's probably because the Miratan are the only 'story' that have heavily invoked the region. It is not so non-nonsensical of a claim as you'd make it out to be, but then again, your only counter was 'this doesn't make sense'.

Even if we postulate that only certain percentages of sentinel are trained at the AoS, it is also noted in the wiki that sentinels don't just guard things. This leads us into:

Shady Knight wrote:
And the fact that sphinxes can fly is a rubbish explanation.  What would motivate them to go to other places in the first place, and what's stopping every single giant critter in the area to attack said sphinx for entering their territory?

So that takes care of the first two notions there - a sphinx guarding another creature it sees as worthy of said guard has quite the notion to be flying about, which also grants us back to my earlier point - flying is a great way to spread information. Even without the sphinx actually interacting with anyone, strangeness gets talked about. Regardless, sphinx have to get their assignments from somewhere as well, which requires finding said assignments.

As for the second notion... um, it already happens? Especially with harpies, if the wiki is to be believed. Given the wiki's comments on how ( most ) sphinx fight, well... there goes the other thing too. They *announce* themselves. You don't even need to ask, they just provide. That'd also get talked about, regardless of how the sphinx acquits themselves ( well renown doesn't have to mean that the information about it is actually correct ).

Shady Knight wrote:
A lot of people take for granted that giant predators are one big happy family, which also makes no sense.

For someone with a sarcasm quote in their signature, how exactly did you miss that one of main characters was a predator that happily consumed other preds? Or that I had a group of people who attacked giant preds for their food? But go on, please continue lumping me into the 'giant predators are one big happy family' caucus. You're not even trying Shady, it just sounds desperate.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:08 pm

I think there is a simple Answer: If someone is able to communicate with others - he will do this.

And in this Land called Felarya much Beings are able to communicate. So... they do.

What would make no Sense at all, would be Guys who can speak - and refuse to. In the whole Land.

So Information spreads.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:54 pm

I didn't say that you in particular assumed that all giants were one big happy family, but that a lot of people erroneously view it this way. But, looking back, it was unnecessary of me to bring that up to begin with. To be perfectly honest, I find the concept of the Academy of Sentinels, and Sphinx Sentinels in general outdated, something that doesn't fit the direction the setting has been going as of recent, more detailed and "down to earth". But whatever, the wiki is pretty much a patchwork of updated and outdated concepts, anyway.

Anyway, enough about the sphinxes, let's get back on topic proper.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:15 am

The topic proper involved the sphinxes given the callout to them earlier. But let us take a different tack.

Is the question for discussion "Do all giants know the layout" or "Do giants in general know the layout"? The first question is easy to answer; and arguably, so is the second. Let us use Earth as a comparison point for the sake of variables we can more inherently understand.

Does everyone know about the internet? No. There are 7+Billion individuals on Earth - as of the beginning of 2014, only 3+Billion had access to the internet. Individuals living in land locked isolated and government controlled regions do not have internet access, or even the proclivity for it. So what is most? Is it even higher than a majority (51%) when talking about such large scales? The US, for example, has ~86% people connected... China though, only has around ~46% - and forget not, that is heavily regulated with regards to what they can see.

Here's the thing though; despite this, most everyone can identify the major land masses of the world when asked. How far down do you have to go before you can find people that cannot tell you the general layout of the world itself? Pretty far down, usually.

What these people cannot do is label or name, for example, specific states and their capitals in America. Even if they were taught this information, they have no reason to know it on a daily basis. Even we Ami's don't... I can maybe get 30 of them on a really good day. If you were to ask about American cities though, you'd probably get two immediate names: Hollywood, and NYC. Even without being able to pinpoint where those two cities are in America, people generally know that those are American cities given their influence.


For a large scale generic, I would proclaim that Felaryan giants are aware of basic layouts. They will likely differ in what they call different regions though; either due to ignorance or pride ( ex: nagas vs dridders and what they call specific landmarks ). These differences will probably most often be based on what those giants find important or recognisable about those regions.

As I noted above, any region with sufficient traffic through it - of any kind - is capable of communicating ideas in some fashion. Even if it is just "the tasty food I have overheard talking about coming from A and going towards B" or likewise. An intelligent predator would try to learn more about these routes, to get more access to tasty food, and thus even without knowing the specifics of the places, they still know the general idea of where those places are compared to them. If they have a social group at all, those ideas will be spread and compared, and differences in names will also come up and be resolved.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:48 am

aethernavale wrote:

Here's the thing though; despite this, most everyone can identify the major land masses of the world when asked. How far down do you have to go before you can find people that cannot tell you the general layout of the world itself? Pretty far down, usually.

That would be because most people on earth recieve a general education.

And we have a history of mapmaking to rely upon, we had kingdoms back in the old days that did all the hard work for us. Have you seen old maps? they are pretty off the mark to start with, it took hundreds of years for them to get it right.

Look at this one for example from ancient greace

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Anaximander_world_map-en.svg/640px-Anaximander_world_map-en.svg.png

Not much to look at is it? And yet it took humans till the ancient greek era to even get that much. It took humanity several stages of civilisation just to establish that little glimpse of the world they live in.

A predator's concept of the world would at best be close to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_Map_of_the_World

And that's if they are a particularly smart pred, otherwise they woulden't even think of that


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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:12 am

That pretty much supports the notion that Preds know the areas by what lives in them, more than actually thinking on a global scale. They know the landmarks they use to navigate when they travel far, they know the places of those dear to them or the best spots to catch prey, but don't stop to wonder about big concepts such as "the world". The only creatures that will probably have wider horizons are those that can fly. Rising above the trees gives them a wider vision, after all. They should comprehend better the concept of the world. Climbing up the Giant Tree can help, too.

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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:50 am

DarkOne wrote:
That would be because most people on earth recieve a general education.

Most? Most how? The educations of the older world are tribal / pass down ones, not what you are thinking of.

DarkOne wrote:
And we have a history of mapmaking to rely upon, we had kingdoms back in the old days that did all the hard work for us. Have you seen old maps? they are pretty off the mark to start with, it took hundreds of years for them to get it right.

Look at this one for example from ancient greace

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Anaximander_world_map-en.svg/640px-Anaximander_world_map-en.svg.png

Not much to look at is it? And yet it took humans till the ancient greek era to even get that much. It took humanity several stages of civilisation just to establish that little glimpse of the world they live in.

A predator's concept of the world would at best be close to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_Map_of_the_World

And that's if they are a particularly smart pred, otherwise they woulden't even think of that

Using Europe / Middle East as an example is poorly thought out. Most of our knowledge of those ancient civilisations and their capabilities were completely lost during the sacking of Alexandria. A more approbate example is the use of the Asian civilisations, since their histories are more or less intact. Wanna compare the Chinese maps? Mm? That argument is pointless.

The current state of affairs for giants in Felarya is going to largely depend on how involved they were in the past wars. The Naga vs Dridder is probably the most 'recent', but we have conflicts going all the way back to the Tenebris Wars ( which largely do not even occur in Felarya, but individuals from Felarya participated ). "Tribal" knowledge as it were will filter down, and even though it will lose details it will still fill in a lot of gaps.

The accuracy of that information is not necessarily important to this discussion ( knowing that a mountain chain blocks your path here and where passes exist is more important than the scope / scale of knowledge regarding said chain ); the question is whether or not they have an understanding of their world. On the large scale, yes, I would say that all but the most remote or mad parties do have a generic knowledge of, at a minimum, every part they could conceivably visit. Flying and ocean traveling predators will have an even better idea of generic world layouts, and it is canonically established that both of those types of predators have idea exchange flows with each other.
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PostSubject: Re: How much do Giants know about Felarya?   Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:27 am

That's a really interesting topic ^^

As I see it the knowledge of Felarya would vary widely from one pred to another.  But as a general tendency, I'd say the more you go toward the south, the more you will find predators who know names of locations, because of the proximity of both the fairy kingdom and Negav that both act, to some extents, as a repository of knowledge.

And in opposite, the more you go north, the more you will encounter wild predators, some of them who never even heard of the concept of a city and who would probably see humans as little creatures that occasionally appears out of nowhere, are  always confused and know nothing of Felarya at all. In those regions, the names would indeed be things like " the-great-mountain-that-spit-fire".

Shady Knight wrote:
No, it isn't.  When it comes to predators who like to chat with their preys, it's easy to forget that these are special cases.  Named characters are meant to be slightly different from the norm.  The way I see it, the average predator wouldn't waste its time talking to its food.  But let's say for the sake of argument that the names do come up.  That predators would know the name of the locations hinges on several factors.

First, it depends on the context it comes up.  A giant naga may hear a human or a group of humans mention Tolmeshal Forest, but just hearing it doesn't necessarily mean it's the forest she's in.  Given how rare encounters between giants and humans are, it's very unlikely they hear the name of their locations within the context that this is the forest they are in, and not something else, like maybe it's the forest they are headed or the forest they are from in case they came from another world or were the victims of interdimensional shenanigans.

Second would be if the prey species would be willing to talk at all.  I dunno about you, but in Felarya, if I were to spot a giant, my first thought would be to run the fuck away.  They know that nine times out of ten they can't be reasoned with and that they'll just eat them right away.  In case of the exception where they run into a giant that's open to chat first, you gotta assume two things.  One, that the giant in question asks what the place is called, which is most likely going to sound like it came out of the blue.  And two, that the prey is collected enough to even talk and think straight.  Just saying, but staying calm and rational in the face of imminent danger ain't a skill everyone's gonna master, and it's more likely that when caught, you're gonna panic.  It's very hard to consciously tell yourself to calm down when in danger.
.

Well you are right but it just need to happens a few times and it'll sticks. And if a naga learns that her forest is called "Tolmeshal", she might find the name curious and share it with others she comes across. In a span of centuries I can see a good part of the continent having names, even for predators living in the jungle.

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