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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:01 pm

Well, that's assuming they thaw, since I believe traditionally a gorgon's gaze will permanently turn the victim into stone. Though it would be nice if there was a thaw period, in all honesty. Nerfing (but felarya's supposed to be OP!).
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:04 pm

Greek Mythology is always OP'd to the extreme when it comes to supernatural creatures, cause that's how people rolled before the time of Jesus H. Christ. I do see Pen's point: irreversible instant kill spell that you can't fight back ftl.
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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:11 pm

Yes, I can agree as well.

Though to be fair, the stronger man survives. In the rawest form, that's pretty much Darwin's law.

You can still fight it, by not looking the gorgon in the eye, and I like to believe in felarya there is a spell that allows a mage to 'see' with magic even when they're eyes are closed. It would work kind of like seeing with infared, that way you aren't actually 'looking at her in the eye'. (I imagine it like in matrix 3, when Neo is blind, and he sees with the matrix as he walks into the machine city's stronghold.)
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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:18 pm

What I meant was that, I think in the original greek mythology, you couldn't glance directly at a gorgon. If you did, you're instantly turned to stone, there was no way to resist that effect, and there was no item or cure to reverse the petrification. It may be realistic, but at the same time, that ability has to have a necessary drawback. I know in the myth, if you look at her reflexion it does nothing, but how many shmuck carries a mirror shield with them?
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:30 pm

Maybe its like running into an angry sumo wrestler in a dark alleyway? But he doesn't have the knee weakness.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:33 pm

Maybe, but then again, it's literally staring at someone to death. Not exactly the most fun ability or fair ability to use. Then again, in Felarya, it'd probably have a ton of healers who can reverse petrification or some item that can do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:27 pm

The Wiki:

"The other trait that makes Gorgons famous is their petryfying gaze, though it tends to be greatly exaggerated. A Gorgon can indeed turn a human-sized creature into a statue, but this is rarely a permanent effect and not lethal, unless the statue is broken.."

So it's not permanent, in most instances. Technically, this could even be helpful at times: Party adventuring in desert, running low on supplies, reaches Gorgon. They are not all making it back to civilization, the supplies are clear. Say it's a party of ten, and they have just enough supplies for two people to make the return trip (something spilled their water, some Desert Fauna, or a bunch of raiders left them with just enough to make a few days whilst taking the rest for themselves).

Gorgon can offer to petrify eight of the people, temporarily, whereas the other two can escape. They are to promise to return in, say, three weeks (that long to get to town, resupply, and come back). If they fib to the Gorgon, they ratted out eight party members for two to survive and now they're at the Gorgon's mercies. If they try to come back with an armed force to purge the Gorgon / betray her, she can most probably destroy the persons before said force can arrive. If they die on the way, then things were already lost so the condition of the eight with the Gorgon doesn't change much. If the people do return, though, net win for all: Whole party of ten survives (or at least long enough to start the return journey), Gorgon gets what (s)he wants, and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:33 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:

Though to be fair, the stronger man survives. In the rawest form, that's pretty much Darwin's law.

YES, LET'S JUST BEAT THIS INTO EVERYONE'S HEAD AND HOPE NOBODY NOTICES HOW STUPID IT IS THAT EVERYTHING IN FELARYA KILLS HUMANS.

Felarya is a danger world, I get it. But come on. Lighten up FFS. Enough instant death magic that can torture human souls for all eternity. Damnit, I want to punch a kitten from how pissed I am.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:51 am

Pendragon wrote:
Archmage_Bael wrote:

Though to be fair, the stronger man survives. In the rawest form, that's pretty much Darwin's law.

YES, LET'S JUST BEAT THIS INTO EVERYONE'S HEAD AND HOPE NOBODY NOTICES HOW STUPID IT IS THAT EVERYTHING IN FELARYA KILLS HUMANS.

Felarya is a danger world, I get it. But come on. Lighten up FFS. Enough instant death magic that can torture human souls for all eternity. Damnit, I want to punch a kitten from how pissed I am.

Yeah! Stuff killing humans? In Felarya? That is just stupid. This world was made for humans to be in a comfortable position.

Felarya is only a "light" danger-world, duh. No more of this instant death magic - like this petrifying gaze that is extremely exaggerated, is rarely permanent and not lethal.

Let's all flip out over this non-lethal magic and go kill kittens! Yeah!
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:16 am

JT : Could you please use a less snarky tone ? It was rather uncalled for here ..

ok let's chill down people.
Like Malahite pointed, the petrification is not supposed to be lethal or permanent. I honnestly don't see what the big fuss is about...

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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:05 am

That was just a little mention of the original greek mythos and how it was permanent there, and it quickly landslided into this.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:02 pm

I agree with the calming down here. Of course beings of real-world mythology are gonna be OP; would Christianity be where it is if God wasn't almighty and all-powerful and all-knowing and can rain down Hell on anyone or anything, anywhere? Writers weren't going for balance, but something that us silly mortals can fear and/or submit to.

Sooo, let's get moving on now. No more talk of this, get back to the original subject :<
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:37 pm

AisuKaiko wrote:

Sooo, let's get moving on now. No more talk of this, get back to the original subject :<

I think that would be a swell idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:16 pm

Karbo wrote:
JT : Could you please use a less snarky tone ? It was rather uncalled for here ..

ok let's chill down people.
Like Malahite pointed, the petrification is not supposed to be lethal or permanent. I honnestly don't see what the big fuss is about...

That was my point and what irked me such. It was clearly laid out over and over that the petrification was not lethal or permanent.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:30 pm

Sean is right. There was a little mention on how it was permanent in greek myths, and it landslided.

So no more talk about petrification, or who yelled at who for what. I don't even remember what the original point of this thread is about. The arguement started on page 3, when people were talking about specific traits of gorgons, because the name and concept already exists.

So back to that conversation, there are a lot of general names for fantasy creatures that can be related to an already existing concept, so unless the name "Gorgon" is patented, then it should be fine. If we want to be doubly sure we can always find a different name, but even the word "naga" is already in existence.
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PostSubject: Re: Gorgons   Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:10 pm

The debate was in regard to petrification's potency against people, and I think came up during the application that Gorgon petrification was often achieved via eye contact in mythology (though I don't believe it needed to be direct eye contact, since even looking in a mirror could petrify / throw off a Gorgon that saw its reflection).

Personally, I prefer Gorgons as they are now (predominantly man-sized, if not man-massed in the least). We have enough "Giant" varieties of Predators at the moment that we should focus more on fleshing things out as they are (and not "Well there are / they're mostly small, but then there's these really kickin' traits for this tall thing!"). I also prefer their powers as either one of two sets:

1) The Gorgon's stare is set in its power, and doesn't change as they grow. This one makes it clear cut, a 100% thing unless the Gorgon is specifically stated to be an exception to the norm. "Gorgons can affect things of [x] size, [y] mass, and smaller. Said things must be alive, and must be capable of making eye contact / seeing the Gorgon." There's no room for debate with it, beyond the duration of the power and how long it takes to act (which could then, similarly, be fleshed out).

2) The Gorgon's power counts as an innate spell / ability, which can be increased but at the most basic level has [x] power. This version I can accept, as it's more like a "natural" spell, like some people try to argue a Fire Naga might be able to use fire powers (for example). Once more, barring exceptional figures ("This Gorgon can't use its power," as an example), it has a basic "limit" for the power. However, it leaves room for growth of the power in a particularly apt or well-trained (or magically inclined) Gorgon: In these cases they might possibly petrify a Kensha Beast, or possibly even a Giant Predator if a truly powerful and talented Gorgon. However, such figures would be rare (hence why the "common" factor would be man-sized or smaller beings).

Note that I don't particularly mean exactly as I provided one and two above, but something similar to them. I would prefer their powers something along that line, but that's mostly personal taste to their power's capabilities. I can readily see why someone wouldn't want even a Gorgon Archmage to have a chance of such (since invariably, if you say "One in a million have [x] power", thirteen people pop up as that one in a million), but in return if they're going to be limited to specific sizes I'd like the mechanics for such understood.

It would also help to explain how resistance to such would work. For instance, in the former case the power is "set" so you could reasonably expect a mage of a certain power threshold or better, or someone with a certain protective amulet or better, to avoid the effects most of the time. In the latter case, it becomes an actual "match" between them, and there is some variability: You can have a reasonable protection against many Gorgons (this amulet will protect you from a Gorgon's stare), but you don't have a sure protection unless you either lean on the side of caution ("I have enough fortifications against magic to make Jon Irenicus my bitch"), or you know about the Gorgon's power-"level" beforehand.
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