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DarkOne
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:02 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, when it comes to vehicles, I always need to bring this up, but where do you even get a ground vehicle in Felarya?

*Hits his quiz buzzer*

Negav's intergalactic gate! Get one from a nearby world.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:29 pm

DarkOne wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
Also, when it comes to vehicles, I always need to bring this up, but where do you even get a ground vehicle in Felarya?

*Hits his quiz buzzer*

Negav's intergalactic gate! Get one from a nearby world.

It's feasible, though I imagine it would cost your severral arms and legs to own a private vehicle of any type... Maybe I will get a better deal if the buyer is a Chilotour XD
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:53 am

How about Hovercrafts? I mean, hey, if someone can build a Jetbike (!), a Hovercraft should be Childīs Play...
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:11 am

Several problems with that. For starters, even assuming they use the same basic idea behind the jetbikes, using magitech to make it levitate, hovercrafts are much bigger than jetbikes, therefore they'll need more materials to build them and, thus they are considerably more expensive to make. But most importantly, they need to have a purpose to even justify building them. Something like a jetbike has a clear purpose, it's employed by the Isolon Fist or whoever is in charge of going out of the city to gather the resources Negav build its economy around. It lets them bypass the long trek back and forth on foot, thus decreasing the chance of encountering danger. Making hovercrafts just in case some adventurers in Negav happen to have heard of Akaptor Desert and for some reason don't have the common sense to look for a wizard who know how to cast a levitation spell, or buy scrolls that hold a levitation spell, is seen as a waste of an investment since there's no guarantee those guys are gonna come back alive, and if the hovercraft gets totaled at any point, which it is very likely to happen, it means all that money got flushed down the drain.

In general, I don't see the point of ground vehicles for Negav. Due to most of Felarya being a jungle, a ground vehicle would have very restricted mobility, and that's a big problem when you're being chased by something that's big enough to keep up with it and has better maneuverability in that environment, especially when you realize that a vehicle makes stealth practically impossible. An airborne vehicle doesn't have the problem of being gimped by bad terrain, and while flying predators are still a threat, they're really the only danger, so you have much less to worry about, making it easier to plan around the possibility of encountering an aerial threat.
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DarkOne
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:26 am

Shady Knight wrote:

In general, I don't see the point of ground vehicles for Negav.  Due to most of Felarya being a jungle, a ground vehicle would have very restricted mobility

.........Shady, it's a gaint jungle. Any human vechile would have the relative size of a playmobile toy.

If Crisis can easily walk through the jungle (have you seen how snakes actually move?) then vechile that is dwarfed in comparison to her should be able to, and unlike her (who realisticly would have to slighter side to side in order to move) the vechile can move in a beeline.

The only problem would be uneven terrian, but surely some parts of the Felarya weiderness would be navigationable, afterall there woulden't be any settlements if there wern't regions of reasonably flat ground.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:53 am

Well, there should also be human-scale trees mixed into the giant-sized jungle too, but Crisis' snake body being as massive as it is, she shouldn't have a problem just crushing them underneath as she slithers around. Flatter snake types (I'm reminded of EG's Amna) might have more trouble, but probably not too much.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:00 am

If there were tiny Trees, then surely not for long because they need Light. No Light under hugeass Trees - no tiny Trees. And if - then they were overgrown by hugeass Bushes, hugeass Mushrooms and hugeass Whatevers. So You have a ground covered with gigantic dead Leaves - this could be interesting for an All-Terrain-Vehicle.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:06 am

The "hugeass bushes", as you put it, could be the human-scale trees, you know. And there is a forest made up of giant mushrooms already, Mycoria Forest. I don't think giant dead leaves would be a good support for vehicles, though. A human might be able to walk on them without problem, but a vehicle would break them for sure. You'd need something like a snowplough for that, now that I think about it, but it could be a nice cover as well, if used smartly.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:07 am

Smile

This is why I called it `interestingī.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:12 am

There surely has to be some kind of vechiles around Negav.

Are we really going to go with the idea that that a good portion of Adventurers go out into the jungle to search for treasure with absolutely no means to get the treasure back once they've found it, except in the space in their suits and bags that arn't already filled up with survival gear?

Would they really be content with just a small pocketfull of gems to split between them after going through the weilderness for goodness knows how long? (it would have several months by foot woulden't it?) they might as well stayed at home and worked a day job, they might get more profit that way.



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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:15 am

A shame bags such as these don't exist.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:16 am

DarkOne - You are exactly my kinda Guy!

As I said - if there are intelligent Beings, they will cooperate, share Ideas - and they will find a Solution. Even in Negav You need Vehicles - it is a gigantic City - how do You plan to carry all the needed and traded Stuff around? Slave Hordes?

Oh well, thatīs pretty convenient, isnīt it?

Oh, well - carry an Item weighing over 50 Kilos back through the Jungle - just in a Bag. What Fun this will be.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:18 am

Yes, that will fit into a pocket. As I said, "a small pocketfull of gems to split between them."
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:20 am

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/shrinkItem.html#shrink-item A shame wizards don't exist in a city ruled by a council of wizards.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:23 am

Not everyone can efford to pay them, right? And as for Common Sense and realistic Reasoning (as much as possible even here)...

I think even a simple Vehicle is much more possible than an all-knowing Spark Scratcher at every Corner.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:28 am

You just made my point exactly. "Not everyone is gonna be able to afford them." In a city where wizards are fairly common by fantasy standards, how do you expect a big, ground vehicle to work. Oh, just to be clear, I'm talking something like a motorized vehicle. If you're thinking a cart or something, I think an alternative is often a beast of burden. Hell, some merchants train Noghdongs to do that for them.


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DarkOne
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:28 am

I was under the impression that size shifting magic is only for faries?
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:35 am

This I thought, too?

If anyone could learn and do that - whatīs the big (or tiny) Deal?
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PostSubject: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:36 am

Nope!
Da Wiki wrote:
A creature who has had its size changed by a fairy usually returns to its normal size within a time lapse varying depending on the fairy's power. However, unlike a typical size-altering spell whose effect end as soon as the magic runs out, the effects of a fairy's size-shifting spell last indefinitely as long as the affected item stay withing a certain range of the fairy who cast it. As such, an adventurer who has been swallowed by a fairy won't ever revert to his or her normal size while it remains trapped inside the fairy's stomach. Oddly, when a fairy shrinks or grow, whatever shrunken creature held in their stomach grows and shrinks along with them. Some clever fairies have trained to enlarge preys in their belly, either to get the most out of their catch or to compensate for a poor hunt. Similarly, mundane items worn or carried by a fairy also changes size alongside them. Some items such has fairy glass have been crafted specifically to keep preys shrunk indefinitely while the fairy is away. People speculate whether or not this is unique to a fairy's magic, or if the presence of strong fairy magic would also affect a size-altering spell cast by other creatures. Nobody is in a hurry to find out for obvious reasons.

And before you say something that it doesn't count since I wrote the revision, keep in mind that Karbo had to approve of this first. He was okay with that statement, therefore yes, humans and other creatures can cast size-altering spells. Though obviously those aren't as potent as a fairy.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:05 pm

Well, at least no one has mentioned the Bags of Holding as if they were the solution to everything, as I often see in other places. Thank goodness.

About carrying treasure, though, a vehicle is normally not the choice that common sense dictates. At least not one that is powered internally. If you don't know where you are going, it's very likely that you'll have to abandon it at some point due to terrain incompatibility. What people could decide to do is carry some kind of portable vehicle that they can take out and easily set up to carry the loot then push or pull it around, or go for a trained animal to ride on the way there, then have it carry the treasure in the walk back. You also have to remember that what takes up most of an adventurer's space are supplies, so you could also say they have made a bit of space in the trip to the treasure's location.

And finally, Shady, you make it sound like any mage could use any kind of spell always. From my point of view, size-shifting magic is a quite difficult branch with no real application in battle, at least up to a very advanced level. Of course, combat is not everything, but you'll probably find there's a general bias towards things that can be destructive compared to things that can be useful. So let's be realistic here, finding a mage that can shrink objects, even in a city dominated by mages, would be difficult. Add to it the risk of having to accompany you out to the wilderness, not everyone likes it. So yeah, you'd pretty much have to either hire a mage to come with you, or convince one with tales of great adventures and treasure.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:27 pm

Well, let's be real, a human mage probably is never going to be able to match a fairy in the size-shifting department. To put it perspective, the Reduce Person spell in D&D only shrinks down a human to roughly the size of a hobbit. Compared to what fairies can do, that's not even remotely impressive, but that's beside the point. Anyway, usually when I see a mage character, the range of spells they cast is often ridiculously narrow, usually the shoot things from hands variety, and I feel that's wrong because I think a mage should be capable of a more diverse skillset with its magic. I'm not asking for the power to blow up the forest, but to show a good variety of spells for a multitude of tasks, that way they feel like they stand out from the crowd and they can do what normal people can't do. Besides, shrinking an inanimate object is far easier than shrinking a living creature.

But I digress.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:30 pm

Hire a dimension-specialized mage.

Get him to the treasure site.

Throw everything into the portal he opens.

Quickly follow the portal to home before the mage decides that he should keep the treasure for himself.

Profit?

+++

In order to achieve something, there are always many methods. However, not all methods are available to everyone, considering the difference in individual's budget, reputation and social standing.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:44 pm

[quote=DarkOne]
The only problem would be uneven terrain, but surely some parts of the Felarya weiderness would be navigationable, afterall there woulden't be any settlements if there wern't regions of reasonably flat ground.[/quote]

This is why animal-like-mechas are the best idea or natural beasts. The only problem with both is horse power compared to how one step from a giantess equals about hundred of ours? I think. ^^; Tis why I armed my mechs so heavily

DarkOne wrote:

Are we really going to go with the idea that that a good portion of Adventurers go out into the jungle to search for treasure with absolutely no means to get the treasure back once they've found it, except in the space in their suits and bags that arn't already filled up with survival gear?

Thank you! Finally somebody says that. Now as for vechicles around Negav? Jetbikes, Eidolon Barges and those lovely spiky ships. That's just negavian. Vix and I have both supposed the Vishies have to have their own airships, shuttles and things of that nature. I myself have contributed the AP-APC and from the old thread a personal fave? Blade Bikes. There's also mecha and animal transports like
Noghdongs.

Shady Knight wrote:
And before you say something that it doesn't count since I wrote the revision, keep in mind that Karbo had to approve of this first. He was okay with that statement, therefore yes, humans and other creatures can cast size-altering spells. Though obviously those aren't as potent as a fairy.

8O Whaaaaa?! A piece of fanon I have been bending for my own use is in fact canon? Aww man. Takes part of the fun out of it. Still nice to know though! o.O

TK wrote:
Hire a dimension-specialized mage.

Get him to the treasure site.

Throw everything into the portal he opens.

XD ...And then he sends your stuff into his own private pocket dimension and you into a known predator lair then goes to said pocket dimension and makes it rain Skevols. =p Never trust a mage who can open portals between worlds.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:06 am

Again, Jetbikes are mostly privately owned, the spiky ships are obviously useful only at sea, mechs are pretty much exclusive only to Miratans because they have the resources and technology to maintain, maybe build them, and you know, provide them with fuel. I think you are forgetting an important detail: Felarya is supposed to be a world where humans are at the bottom of the food chain, in other words, they odds are heavily stacked against them. Giving them free and easy access to those kind of vehicles, except the spiky ship, removes a lot of the danger. A long trip in the jungle is very dangerous because the longer you're there, the more likely some beast is gonna show up, and you don't want that. If you can fly wherever you want in a straight line, those odds drop drastically, and that's bad because, again, Felarya is supposed to be really dangerous.
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DarkOne
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:09 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Giving them free and easy access to those kind of vehicles, except the spiky ship, removes a lot of the danger.  A long trip in the jungle is very dangerous because the longer you're there, the more likely some beast is gonna show up, and you don't want that.  If you can fly wherever you want in a straight line, those odds drop drastically, and that's bad because, again, Felarya is supposed to be really dangerous.

I guess so, though for that arguement to stand one has to ignore that many a adventurer will end up hitching a ride on the shoulder of a predator to make traveling easier anyways (this happens even in canon!)

I always saw that even more of an asspull, but I digress
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