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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:54 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Again, Jetbikes are mostly privately owned, the spiky ships are obviously useful only at sea, mechs are pretty much exclusive only to Miratans because they have the resources and technology to maintain, maybe build them, and you know, provide them with fuel.  I think you are forgetting an important detail: Felarya is supposed to be a world where humans are at the bottom of the food chain, in other words, they odds are heavily stacked against them.  Giving them free and easy access to those kind of vehicles, except the spiky ship, removes a lot of the danger.  A long trip in the jungle is very dangerous because the longer you're there, the more likely some beast is gonna show up, and you don't want that.  If you can fly wherever you want in a straight line, those odds drop drastically, and that's bad because, again, Felarya is supposed to be really dangerous.

You think even being in a Scorpion Tank from Halo or Gundam-style mechanisms would save you if http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Storm_Sprites took an interest in you? Also lets look at Felaryan Air when you said flying every makes it challenging. Jissy brought that interdimensional air plane down then she bashed it open with a rock. The slug that my own Naga engineer built an Anti-Slug Metal Slug to beat? Slug girl 2 Tank zip. Vechiles are a slight advantage against flora, some fauna and occasionally can out run a pred, though I have yet to see it, but often even a Miritan mecha can't really do much against a smart predator. Even Jetbikes, assigning Silver Scales, can be bumped out of the air by a sand whale just minding it's own business.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:07 am

The size-changing magic in other creatures has been canon for a while.

MukatKiKaarn's gerridis have a special poison, which they coat blow darts in, which causes... duh.
The Opal Mingo, when charged up, can be used to... duh.
If you look up the demons in da wiki, you'll see one of them, the one listed as very high danger level, when hurt, goes... duh.
Dimensional castaways, like Jora, if they're very unlucky (or very lucky) can also wind up changing into... duh.

We know it's not impossible, it's just fairies have pretty much all of that magic.


On the other hand, I wonder if giving it to enough wizards to make it comercially available isn't just too convenient. There's nothing wrong with having things work that way, don't get me wrong, Shady. It's just that if magic is the best option to the exclusion of all others, we should ideally require no other solutions (except for those odd cases where the adventurers in question cut the tongues off sorcerers or something). Then, the same argument you make regarding those vehicles can be made for your kind of magic: it eliminates at least one element of challenge. If your objective is to make it so that adventurers can take ALL the loot, that's alright by me. Just be mindful of all the other things you're enabling by allowing people to reduce a load by a factor of 2000, because you know greater men than ourselves have gone nuts abusing the mechanic for fun and profit. Same with bags of holding.

But if you want a cheap motorized all-terrain vehicle, you could always just reanimate (They point out you can't reanimate the dead in Felarya. That means the dead can get reanimated outside!) a mule. Mules are super-surefooted. Or a dire goat: if those things don't mind mountains, you should be okay in pretty much any terrain. Giant offworld spiders* are promising too, given they climb sheer walls.

Or you could rule that magic can make vehicles move, like we do so often.


*(ATTACK OF THE MUTANT ZOMBIE GIANT SPIDER RIDERS FROM MARS!!)

Let's nerd out!:
 

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:27 am

Good Idea - Call a Magician who can make Your Wagon roll without any Animal pulling it - for sinple.

(In Fact I am somewhat afraid to post something here - it may `disappear´ mysteriously like my last Post here did)

I don´t think a simple `Lorry´ for carrying Your Stuff around would make a big Difference for a huge Being with bad Manners at all... It wouldn´t shift the Balance of Power, if that is what some of You are afraid of.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:54 am

Several problems with your reasoning, Jedi.  First of all, Storm Sprites are found almost exclusively in the Great Rocky Fields.  If you eliminate that area from your equation, they practically become a non-issue.  Second, remember that FS made the Felaryan Express, an outstandingly illogical idea when you know the bare basics of how business works, so he is not a good source to quote when it comes to how Felarya works.  Third, remember that Jetbikes have stealth equipment.  While it's not a cloaking field, they were specifically made to be hard to spot and hear.  Try throwing a rock at something you can barely discern and hear on top with a ton of leaves blocking your view.

Also, naga engineer?  Are you telling me you went and ripped off Anna?
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:57 am

You know this is kind of ridiculous. I'm with darkone here, As much as it hard to do certain things it's easier to do others that are as equally as absurd. In reality it all depends upon the imagination of the person and how far they try to go to make it seems sensible and not absurd. Like what you were saying shady about certain races owning certain equipment almost exclusively. I kind of bash that as it's hinted that you can find all manner of towns or villages in felarya despite how dangerous it is, Though that was implimented for creative freedom. My example being. "So we got this former vishmital town called elegal. Yeah it used to be a pretty spot for commerce till the former affiliation left. They managed to leave a few small mechs behind and we learned quickly how to maintain and even sligthy blueprint their pattern. But we're hesitant to use them because there are a lot of things out there that the pilots aren't ready for, and losing one those just gives one less chance for a towns defense." That's survival logic if your putting meta perspectives with town. Heck you know whats easier and also equally absurd but it happens canonically. Befriending a pred. Anyways the real issue you're trying to say is how people try to make the setting or perspective dangerous and how hard or easy is that to vision and emulate (it's not) Anywho about the vehicles. I imagine all sorts depending on where and how you set up but like jedi said, Depedning on where you are. It only gives you slight advantages. Not overall. Fauna can be smart and in this setting overwhelming too boys.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:01 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, naga engineer? Are you telling me you went and ripped off Anna?
Okay, so now there can only be one "Naga engineer" in all of Felarya, is that right?

(Sorry for not adding anything to the topic, but just couldn't help but point that out.)

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:39 pm

Considering that Anna is a very, very unique case, it makes it easy to spot copycat characters.

Anyway, to go back somewhat on topic, the whole befriending pred also irks me. Not because that can't ever, ever happen under absolutely no circumstance, but because writers tend to be bad at making them credible. The same goes with vehicles. Usually, some characters may have a motorized vehicle, but it's not given an explanation why this person has this vehicle, and how it's kept in working condition if the story implies they've been at it in the wild for a while is never explained. In many cases, like the befriending of predators, I find that many bad cases of land vehicle is a ploy by subpar authors to keep their characters safe.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:49 pm

At first - ANY Character is copied at some Point.

Then there is this unique Feeling about special Conditions in a few Stories about some Characters. Okay - You don´t like it. This is as I said okay, too. But this doesn´t mean that others don´t like it. Or that they can´t like it.
So some Guys around have a giant Friend or whatever - so what?
Man, I for Example can´t get over all this Mumbo-Jumbo-magic-Stuff (which seems for me sometimes way out of Proportion, reaching deep into the Realm near Ridiculousness) - or some Kinko-the-Killerclown-Bogus-Races (in my Eyes). But I don´t say anything about it.
Why?
Because someone has sacrificed Time and Thought about that - and it is something he or she likes, otherwise he or she wouldn´t write about it. They like it and it´s their Kind of having Fun. And many others who read about this will like it too, thinking: `Man, this really is cool!´ - so why should I spoil their Fun?
So I let it be - and this is not only okay - it´s pretty damn polite and a Sign of Tolerance, too.
And last, but not least: Writing and RPing is supposed to be Fun.

Then there is the Felaryan Wiki - this is great, too - so anyone who is interested (or wants to know something special) can go there and have a closer Look at it. This is Sort of an Encyclopedia, a Collection of Knowledge anyone widely agrees on - but not a Book of unchangeable written Laws, which wouldn´t allow any Exceptions or Alterations. You can read about a certain Location or some interesting Races - and then You go ahead writing Your Story and make something special out of this Outline.
Don´t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with constructive Criticism - but sometimes all this sounds more like a Sort of tried Censorship.
And by something like all this here, which should be supposed to be Fun in the first Place this would be way wrong in Place.

Some like their Characters having Friends with the Size and Behaviour of a friggin´ Basilosaurus? Fine - let them enjoy it.

Others like to have a HEMTT to rampage through the Neighbourhood? Okay - let them having Fun with their Fantasies. Because this is what it´s all about: Fantasy.

You don´t like it? Allright - no one can change Your personal Taste - but please dont try to change that of others.

Of Course because this is a well-developed World at the Time in which these Characters live, there have to be simple Rules about the Settings and Things and Stuff - but overdoing the Regulation Stuff just for drawing them into a Direction to write or rp Stories You would like to read, see or rp seems sometimes, like I said, like Kind of Censorship.

You think about Things like no one else does - this is making You... You.
Others think of other Aspects - this makes them them - so to say.
Good Thing we all are different - and just You wait - at some Point someone will come up with a funny and unique Idea even You will like. Very Happy

And now: I hope my English isn´t so bad that nobody understands what I was trying to say. If anyone feels offended in a Way, I am deeply sorry.

Hoo - now I digress big Time... Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:19 pm

I dunno, Shady. Precisely because Anna is such a special case, she isn't fit as a prototype. Besides, you claim this other Naga engineer is an "Anna rip-off" right of the bat without even knowing her name or backstory. You only know they both are female, they both are Nagas, and they both like fiddling with machines. You don't even know if this Naga is giant, as Anna, or how did she came by to liking machines. Forgive me if I am jumping to conclusions, but it seems to me you're exercising some prejudice here.


Getting back on topic. I've realized we're focusing a bit too much on vehicles and places outside Negav, but I can pretty much picture vehicles existing for transport within the city, or from it to the Dimensional Gate outside the walls. Offworld merchants would probably have their own means of transporting their cargo through and to the Great Market, but other might hire a vehicle or a mage for the trip. Yes, as always, people can say mages can do all the work, but their price probably won't be fit for everyone, and given the diversity of other worlds, people might dislike or not know about magic at all. I think small, horse-driven vehicles would be necessary in a city like Negav, and other types too.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:45 pm

The "Anna" rip-off has no relevance to this topic. It was just a remark you felt compelled to expand upon. I won't say anymore about it, I've said my piece and stand by what I said.

Anyway, when it comes to Negav, if we don't count small, horse-powered vehicles, Karbo did talk about the possibility of hovering vehicles, but they'd be more like service vehicles, like ambulances and such. Of course, it's not in the wiki because it's not regularly updated, nor does it stick with updating a page or a group of relevant pages fully before moving on to something else.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:16 pm

Ilceren wrote:
I dunno, Shady. Precisely because Anna is such a special case, she isn't fit as a prototype. Besides, you claim this other Naga engineer is an "Anna rip-off" right of the bat without even knowing her name or backstory. You only know they both are female, they both are Nagas, and they both like fiddling with machines. You don't even know if this Naga is giant, as Anna, or how did she came by to liking machines. Forgive me if I am jumping to conclusions, but it seems to me you're exercising some prejudice here.


Getting back on topic. I've realized we're focusing a bit too much on vehicles and places outside Negav, but I can pretty much picture vehicles existing for transport within the city, or from it to the Dimensional Gate outside the walls. Offworld merchants would probably have their own means of transporting their cargo through and to the Great Market, but other might hire a vehicle or a mage for the trip. Yes, as always, people can say mages can do all the work, but their price probably won't be fit for everyone, and given the diversity of other worlds, people might dislike or not know about magic at all. I think small, horse-driven vehicles would be necessary in a city like Negav, and other types too.

Firstly thanks, Illy, for defending Sally even though you didn't know her. ^_^ Secondally and just because I feel this needs cleared up: Sally is a egineer in the literal sense. She makes tanks, mini bikes and small arms. She dabbles in munition smithing and other "primitive' tech that Anna wouldn't even look twice at with her skills. Also? Human sized.

Now back on topic I think Illy is onto something here. The Grand Market District's various wares must come in the gate from some vehicles and not just exclusively from the "World Gate" in Negav. As weird as it sounds Noghdongs and other beasts of burden are more likely than my AP-APCs or even a heavily armored flying trroop carrier. Possibly with a combination of specefically trained dimensional mages and other various process. Actually I see no reason to look for one. I believe Negav has many means of importing cargo to be as a big as it is. though I've always wondered why there isn't a special gate for vehicles (animals too) that would cut down in inflow from the main two gates.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:50 pm

As ground vehicles go, they would have a hard time dealing with preds, the small and quick would have to be, quite maneuverable to weave and dodge at a predators movement speeds. which would be dangerous driving speed

OR like my razor tanks. slow, well armored, and covered in blades that human sized people can move around in easily, but to something pred sized would get hurt trying to pick it up or hitting in with there own body

Then we can go into non physical defenses. Physiological warfare. While it could seem like an attraction to some preds, loud music like techno, heavy metal, dubstep. OR much other music that create harsh sound waves, or vibrations. could easily make preds avoid the vehicle rather then want to check it out, as well as scare the local wildlife.

further more, a well prepared explorer would most likely know how to maintain his vehicle in the middle of nowhere in case something breaks.

I have a 62 international 4x4 truck, it was sitting for the last 5 years, in the same spot unmoving or started. When out the other day, started it up like nothing and drove it to a new spot for it to sit to encourage me to swap out the steering box on it at somepoint this year. I could assume that someplace has more advance metallurgy then we had where on earth in 1962, or prehaps someplanet has an old beat up 'junker' like my scout was, sitting around that you could pick up for cheap, repair it alittle bit cheaply, and boom, decent vehicle for driving around on felarya in, for cheap, that can possibly be a hover bike/truck/boat/leman russ tank

As for the "Anna" thing goes, Anna is just a clone of a character i had well before felarya, like in grade two, I drew a stick figure that looked like a naga, and it was working on this cool radiotower thingy on the radio station but it was the same size as the radio tower. BOOM. KArbo I'll see you in court for a blatant rip off of my own character :V (though cudos on drawing her much more sexier then i did :v )


Also don't forget there are friendly giants, and ways to make friends (though rare as it my be) with Crisis even. (And I'm sure more then just one person in the universe is able to befriend her) Then there are preds who reconised friends of friends as off the meal list even. Surely if there is one exception to all of this, it all would be possible for the same possible things to happen with other preds.

As for land vehicles being sub-par, yes they are quite a few more risks, and are limited if they are tired (too tired, or four even Very Happy ) starwars style speeder bikes even have the issue of "big ass tree, enjoy your speed" boom

, or "Why didnt we make this giant walking AT-ATs able to stand up if they trip on something?"

What about Fighter planes that run on the power of a small sun contained in a fuel cell that lasts for millions of years, that have the ability to go faster then light because of the materials they are made out of are just speculation in our universe.

Better yet, super sonic jets should be well equiped to avoid anything that flies in felarya, if they have jump jets they could probably land and take off easily enough to avoid most landing issues and take off issues.


The main issue with Felarya, is that it is a road junction between multiverses pretty much, there is sooo much that could slip into felarya without notice that hell, it could be luck that his jet was sitting there for the taking, and the imagine that, the owners manual was in the glove box, opening it optically downloads the flight instincts into your memory via optic rely pulses or some bullshit like that.

Hell, even the felarya wide speech magic? Farscape took care of that without magic, its just a micro organism that somehow translate all languages into your native tongue for you. Why can someone find a hover car that is a normal car, but has a fungus growing on its tires that makes it float in the air but still drive like a normal vehicle.

I have a kitsune form another universe that uses a of series dimensions to scale down prey, her making cascading them though the spaces rendering them tiny. Forever....as short as that well be for them. She could easily get into Felarya and open up her magical shop of wonder!

Dimensional anchors could be set up around felarya, rendering safe spots to attempt to teleport to. with the right atunement the interference that Felarya creates would be nullified and poof, you just went from the hands of Crisis to your house in Negav, with no random chance of being elsewhere! Magic! Just as OP as Technology! probably both as costly as thew other.

Shrink item magic? Fuck that, Honey, I shank the kids had technology for that! gimme the big ol "pew pew, ha shrank you!" gun.

I'll make Crisis into a tiny! Then threaten to eat her! See how she likes it :V and I'll strap it the the back of a 1940's Jeep Willies. and repair it with barbed wire and a soup can!

What now magic!


Technology in Negav however could be shunned out, with a group of wizards saying nope, we wanna get rich of magic doing that, screw off. Making a select few only able to preform such wondrous acts, though practice and study, and secrets in the dark depths of an evil lair that is actually a tower thousands of floors high underground, on a log in the hole of the bottom of the sea.


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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:23 am

Yeeeahh... I don´t really get it - but I will say yes.

Okay - Preds are sometimes big - but they all are smart.

And they have to be - it´s a Pred´s Habit to be smart, right?

Well, anyone else sentient is also smart - otherwise they would be all extinct by now.

And smart ones will find Solutions for their Problems.

And if You have Hundreds of Thousands of them - some will come up with really unique and fantastic Solutions.

So I am sure You will find all Sorts of Transportation in Felarya - if You know where to look for it.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:58 am

There are other factors you fail to take into consideration.  Take a look at this.  http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Versology#Worlds_accessible_from_Negav.27s_portal: These are the worlds currently known to be connected with Negav. Read it carefully, you'll notice that there isn't very much technology trade. At best, as far as we know, we have Belerim, but I'm fairly certain Karbo went on record and said that Negav isn't too fond of it because of the ludicrous tax they impose for using their hub. I think it's common sense to say that for merchants to settle in the Grand Market District to sell their ware, they first need to be able to access Negav. Given that these worlds have the best way to access Negav, I think it's safe to say that most of these merchant sell much advanced technology.

Second, you say "If you know where to look". Well, how many people know where to look? How many people even care about such high technology. For a Negavian, it's almost always a useless novelty. For an adventurer, the adventurer in question need to know what it is and how it works, otherwise it's just a useless bauble. I think Karbo made it clear that while Negav is exposed to technology, it is ultimately a niche market. After all, the rulers of the city are a council of wizards. Cultural bias and the rulers' affinity toward magic dictates that they don't trade for high technology very often.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:10 am

Of Course I said `where to look´. Very Happy

Perhaps Your Character knows, where to look - because You decided so? Or he stumbles over something by Accident - because You decided so? I think, many of the Characters the People in this Forum created are meant to be someone special. So they will write a Story about someone special - and not an average Nitwit who crawls over his Crop Fields or cleans up the Streets with a Broom. And someone special could find something special.

I know this would perhaps be something special You wouldn´t like - but it could happen this way.
And if some Guys around here would find this `Method´ convenient - why not? At least it´s their Character and their Story - they must like it.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:07 am

So it's okay for a canon character like Anna to wonder about the forest, picking bits of whatever is laying around and in short time magically builds fully working machines (even though most things would be beyound use once they've been exposed to the elements for far too long)

But it's not okay for centuries old civilisations to collectivity put their heads together and build anything that would befuddle Bilbo Baggins?


You know I would be more willing to go along with bizare ideas like this if I understood what the bloody point was. If Negav is surposed to be kept at a certain tech level, then why put a intergaltic gate right next to it?
Why make it a intergaltic trade hub?


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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:16 am

Here is my point, hopefully made crystal clear for once: Felarya is supposed to be a death world, one where humans are not the dominant species and are almost literally at the bottom of the food chain.  Not only that, but it's supposed to be a high fantasy world with a strong emphasis on magic.  High level of technology being readily accessible to so many people both lowers the aspect of high fantasy with a strong emphasis on magic, but it also makes the setting look less dangerous than we're supposed to believe, as if they have so many of these around means that they have the resources to keep themselves relatively well-defended.  The lack of sprawling human civilizations and technological advancement as a whole, to me at least, is an indicator of how dangerous Felarya is supposed to be.  The place is so dangerous they just don't last long enough to properly defend themselves against the giant man-eating monsters or make as much technological progress as we do.

This is why I am at best iffy with advanced vehicles, even something like a modern or contemporary car, or high technology in general when it comes to Felarya.  In most cases, many important aspects, such as maintenance, fuel, or even a readily available source of resources to even build them, and in the case of a war machine, ammunition, material to make high explosives and such are never addressed.  Like I said previously, they generally feel like a convenience to keep the characters safe thanks to sub-par writing.  I'm not saying that it can't ever be done convincingly, or that high technology can't ever appear, but as far as the setting as a whole is concerned, I find the merging of science and magic very, VERY clumsily executed.  They feel very much at odds with each other, unlike something like Star Wars where both high science and supernatural are very integral to the setting and removing either one would completely change the feel of the setting.  It instead feels like it was a mostly fantasy world at first, but then science fiction was thrown into the mix to try and please the sci-fi camp, regardless of it made sense or would clash with other things.


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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:55 am

Shady Knight wrote:
but as far as the setting as a whole is concerned, I find the merging of science and magic very, VERY clumsily executed.  They feel very much at odds with each other

Then why is Negav a damn intergalatic trade hub? and not a general fantasy city like in 'Attack on Titan'?


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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:12 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Here is my point, hopefully made crystal clear for once: Felarya is supposed to be a death world, one where humans are not the dominant species and are almost literally at the bottom of the food chain.  Not only that, but it's supposed to be a high fantasy world with a strong emphasis on magic.  High level of technology being readily accessible to so many people both lowers the aspect of high fantasy with a strong emphasis on magic, but it also makes the setting look less dangerous than we're supposed to believe, as if they have so many of these around means that they have the resources to keep themselves relatively well-defended.  The lack of sprawling human civilizations and technological advancement as a whole, to me at least, is an indicator of how dangerous Felarya is supposed to be.  The place is so dangerous they just don't last long enough to properly defend themselves against the giant man-eating monsters or make as much technological progress as we do.

Again Shady I get your point dude. And it's very valid, but the thing you have to focus on that most people don't is the death world aspect. You can have high technology but the death world can still stop high end technology as much as it can stop a wizard basically being a magical nuke and make their own piece of plane out of felarya. So no i wouldn't say felarya strictly stops high end technology it stops a civilization from sprawling to exceptional states from science or fantasy. heck lets just just say that we got a part of felarya that was more sci-fi oriented like my idea of having a massive "urban" jungle that can have contemporary cars or lasers or high tech but my biggest issue would be having to fulfill karbos intention on making it deathworldy. So i obviously can't have this urban jungle sprawling. It's going to end up like most cites that you would see "Post apocalyptic" or "dystopian". I'm still going to have to be an adventurer or frontiers man despite all the technology i have on me and i'm going to have the privileged to go into this city or place and figure out the civilizations libraries or constructs in a different manner Then a person with magic would, or hey that would be considered my "magic" to those that don't know much about technology. Doesn't mean i'm safe. There could be some Silver succubi that is more familiar with techie on goers around the corner that would use her magic to deter or make me technology seem irrelevant or a liability. Or perhaps There is a fauna that's an insect that scurries around the city eating things like munitions and electronic devices so that i would have to keep watch on my stuff and not let it out in the open while i find and abandon structure. Now put it in this aspect for comparison. In the know continent, we have mages for the aspire setting in the region. In this part of felarya I'm describing. Your engineer technocrats would be the aspiring factor for survival in the region of felarya.

Are you seeing where i'm getting with this? So yes in your perspective. Right now, on this continent Karbos meta-cultural aspect is "Most of everyone uses magic and technology is rare" Now i wouldn't say the level isn't you could find towns outside of negav that have a better grasp of it albeit in what ever way you can imagine. A large ship crash landing or a self sustaining town that was from a world of that kind of caliber just barely hanging on the edge with the provisions the residents are used to having. So yes I can throw mechs or bikes or what ever in story but the setting itself is what i still have to focus on "How can i make it hard from this tech oriented person to still feel vulnerable despite the technological prowess they have" as akin to a high master wizard despite how much magic he or she may know still get eaten or die. That's the thing people have to focus on. They just don't know how with technology because we're used to it's luxuries in the modern day and so that detriment and thought process enters your fan-fic authors or canon authors mind. It's why i think karbo personally likes showing magic over technology in his works is because it's his forte that he can have an actual grasp on and that he thinks can give him his creative freedom to express his creative rites.

Shady Knight wrote:
This is why I am at best iffy with advanced vehicles, even something like a modern or contemporary car, or high technology in general when it comes to Felarya.  In most cases, many important aspects, such as maintenance, fuel, or even a readily available source of resources to even build them, and in the case of a war machine, ammunition, material to make high explosives and such are never addressed.  Like I said previously, they generally feel like a convenience to keep the characters safe thanks to sub-par writing.  I'm not saying that it can't ever be done convincingly, or that high technology can't ever appear, but as far as the setting as a whole is concerned, I find the merging of science and magic very, VERY clumsily executed.  They feel very much at odds with each other, unlike something like Star Wars where both high science and supernatural are very integral to the setting and removing either one would completely change the feel of the setting.  It instead feels like it was a mostly fantasy world at first, but then science fiction was thrown into the mix to try and please the sci-fi camp, regardless of it made sense or would clash with other things.

Yep, I totally agree with that, pretty poorly executed. Thing to take note however is with the current chronologic. It seems that your more "Familar" technological races might be the new empires for the Rise of Negav Just based on how things look now and what affiliations have large spheres or  just spheres of influence. Which going back to topic is probably why your seeing a lot of tech based ground or air works in the making. In negav not so, But same as with darkone, It seems the magiocrats are pretty selective of what kind large trade they want brought in from different worlds. (If they do have control over that directly.)

DarkOne wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
but as far as the setting as a whole is concerned, I find the merging of science and magic very, VERY clumsily executed.  They feel very much at odds with each other

Then why is Negav a damn intergaltic trade hub? and not a general fantasy city like in 'Attack on Titan'?



If you read the manga, i wouldn't quite say it's even fantasy. It's a fortification city with a medieval/mild steampunk esque with science fiction elements for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:22 am

Ask Karbo, not me.  I didn't make the setting, I'm just expressing how I feel about it.  Furthermore, like I also said before, Karbo himself said that Negav has cultural and governmental biases, and will favor trades that are more magic-y in nature than high science.  This means that they don't interact very much with worlds that are highly developed with pure science, which influences the kind of stuff you find in the city.  Negav is closer to Magitech, and as the wiki points out, it's a pre-industrial society.

Also, making your post in all bold doesn't make your point stronger and you know it.

Anyway, Vixen, I am mostly focusing on the known part of Felarya, and for my money, without some credible mean of keeping a town protected or some way to get the smart predators to come into an agreement to leave you alone like with Chioita, the only way I can think to make a town "safe" is by being small and hidden, and that's going to limit how much you're going to grow and thrive. It's not just Nagas, or something absurdly rare in most areas like Storm Sprites or Silver Succubi, but also wild animals. The fauna is often gargantuan too, and you can't reason with those, so the diplomatic approach doesn't work with them. Chioita is set in a very good location so that animals are very unlikely to wander in, so they avoid that problem. Unless it has a credible way to deal with both sapient and non-sapient predators, I just don't see how a town can thrive in any shape or form other than by being small and well hidden.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:00 pm

?? High-Tech-Stuff? Not my Department. Steampunk is okay - I can live with that. Okay - I have a Character who is stuffed with semiorganic Nanotech - but this Level as a Vehicle would be something very heavy - even here. But Steampunk is stylo.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:36 pm

Shady knight wrote:
Anyway, Vixen, I am mostly focusing on the known part of Felarya, and for my money, without some credible mean of keeping a town protected or some way to get the smart predators to come into an agreement to leave you alone like with Chioita, the only way I can think to make a town "safe" is by being small and hidden, and that's going to limit how much you're going to grow and thrive. It's not just Nagas, or something absurdly rare in most areas like Storm Sprites or Silver Succubi, but also wild animals. The fauna is often gargantuan too, and you can't reason with those, so the diplomatic approach doesn't work with them. Chioita is set in a very good location so that animals are very unlikely to wander in, so they avoid that problem. Unless it has a credible way to deal with both sapient and non-sapient predators, I just don't see how a town can thrive in any shape or form other than by being small and well hidden.

You know i take everything into account right. Anyways you have a point. I don't neccessarily agree with a town being small, but well hidden or perhaps one of having ambiguous fortification would be the way to thrive in the known continent. Anyways that's aside the main point. My point is having a high tech vehicle gives you as much chance as having an animal that you breed that knows all sorts of defensive or offensive magic to bustle your way around felayra. I don't discredit either spectrum of it being a null or a slight advantage. The thing i discredit is how believable a person is willing to make me think the character, person or organization is supposed to be thriving scrappily or with problems on felarya in their own regards. A person in a tank with a modern pattern depending on the make up of the tank can survive in or near a town spectrum. It's operational fields before you get in the risque corridor. Does the tank run on water like the aforementioned UNSC scorpion. Oh great that just increased it's operational range dramatically. If i were a high tech civilization i'd make most my fuel water too since i'm operating in a jungle or an extreme temperate rain forest where moisture isn't too hard to find. Perhaps with magictech i can get a anti gravity sigil on the wings and boom i have a flying bike that's a bit logical. Does it give me an advantage one so ever with the guy riding an animal like a chocobo? In some regards yes in some no. It's a huge manner of preference of what your wanting to deal with. I'd know how to maintain my bike as much as that person knows how to train his steed instinctively. In the end we'll both run into a situation that isn't favorable for our mode of transportation. Eventually, in some way felarya will always bring that kind of luck to you. So i really don't like hearing this crapolaz that "If you have a mech you're most likely to win in the survival contest" No that all really depends if people want hand wave and be lazy (what you're seeing mostly) instead of doing their homework or using their imagination with their creativity to have some actual development when it comes to their characters in the massive anthology of surviving. That's the real issue.

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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:26 am

Shady wrote:
Here is my point, hopefully made crystal clear for once: Felarya is supposed to be a death world, one where humans are not the dominant species and are almost literally at the bottom of the food chain. Not only that, but it's supposed to be a high fantasy world with a strong emphasis on magic. High level of technology being readily accessible to so many people both lowers the aspect of high fantasy with a strong emphasis on magic, but it also makes the setting look less dangerous than we're supposed to believe

Yes Felarya is a death-world but so is the Discworld. Why compare them? Well because both have a similar theme: powerless characters are the mercy of their enviroment or magic or both and because both use humor and wit and have decent, but not overly heroic, main characters. It's a vore and giantess world and it's been thriving these past few years. Why? Because it doesn't just focus on the doom and gloom aspect. It also has a cute side, if a dangerous one. Evidence: Crisis, Vivian and so forth. Predators can be funny when voring others. Humans can too and even tinies but we just don't get as much of that. Actually Lea is the only canon human besides maybe Isham who has survived long enough with predators to really show us their points of veiw but some, as of yet still, fanon characters show us two sides: Nick's Remus is a excellent canidate to show that humans can have fun in Felarya and even survive. Jack Ryle uses humor as well in his battles with preds, or at least he did in the early stuff, and many of us RPers liek Saen tend to throw our OCs into humorous spots. Why do we do this? Why not just focus on the gloom and drama? After all Nick has broken our hearts from the very begining in FDOR: Cats and Dogs and shown us one can use the sorrow the world causes as a way to bond to the characters. French snack and Prinny are also extremely good at doing this too, but it doesn't mean Felary a should always be seen as a place of death and doom. Sorry I may have digressed, gotten off topic and even ranted but I feel very strongly about this and it is revelent to the post above.

Shady wrote:

Anyway, Vixen, I am mostly focusing on the known part of Felarya, and for my money, without some credible mean of keeping a town protected or some way to get the smart predators to come into an agreement to leave you alone like with Chioita, the only way I can think to make a town "safe" is by being small and hidden, and that's going to limit how much you're going to grow and thrive. It's not just Nagas, or something absurdly rare in most areas like Storm Sprites or Silver Succubi, but also wild animals. The fauna is often gargantuan too, and you can't reason with those, so the diplomatic approach doesn't work with them.

Hmm you do have point. In Felarya growth of one's village, town or stronghold can be a dangerous thing. That's why I built Bunkertown under the ground. There's fewer critters down there and the giant predators may be tough but they are also more conmfined as long as they can't tunnel and are liek cave dridders just wandering and hunting or weaving traps but unable to really dig through solid rock and probably unwilling to once they they find the entrance gaurded by mages or auto turrets. Heck or even a simple pulley based door sytem to drop a jhuge blast door on their hands or even just a specefically carved spikey boulder or two. XD Though I don't think it's impossible to spread out. I mean Negav did it with the eye, Chioita did it with a their vicious kelp bay both proving the point there's a mixutre of natural methods and man made means to create defenses. I do believe however even if you get established and pretty big? You also make yourself a target to human sized threats liek bandits, raiders and even really desperate survivors with mecha or even just enouth military fire power to overwhelm a few locals. Really Felarya is a lovely set of checks and balances.

Vixen wrote:
The thing i discredit is how believable a person is willing to make me think the character, person or organization is supposed to be thriving scrappily or with problems on felarya in their own regards. A person in a tank with a modern pattern depending on the make up of the tank can survive in or near a town spectrum. It's operational fields before you get in the risque corridor. Does the tank run on water like the aforementioned UNSC scorpion. Oh great that just increased it's operational range dramatically. If i were a high tech civilization i'd make most my fuel water too since i'm operating in a jungle or an extreme temperate rain forest where moisture isn't too hard to find.

That's actually a clever bit of thinkin there, Vix. I didn't know the Scorpion was Ampibius. Gives it a whole 'nother range of ability including going under water where even a storm sprite wouldn't be able to turn it against you. XD Poor thing would short out. Bzzzt! Wha ha ha ha! Oh that image is too funny. Engines that use water in Felarya would have a greater advantage than those who run on limited sources like petrol or a battery of some kind. I'll have to consider Tam mentioning that to people in passing about Seeker vechiles.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:01 am

Jedi, you are confusing the theme of the setting as a whole with the tone of a or a group of stories. The lack of a multitude of thriving, advanced civilizations, and that most of the world is claimed by wilderness, is an element that reinforces the theme of the setting: that humans are no longer the dominant species. It doesn't necessarily affect what tone you give to a story.
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PostSubject: Re: About vehicles and means of transport   Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:33 am

If you're going to look at vehicles from a regulated POV ( ie Negav ), then you need to examine why Negav has that intergalactic trade hub. What does Felarya offer to all those other worlds? Sure, some may be adventure, forbidden / lost items, and other such like. But the actual reason is spoken with but a word -

Ascarlin.

Quote :

Standing as one the highest points on the map, these majestic mountains are a great place to get a view of the surrounding lands. The Ascarlin mountains are famous for their wide variety of rocks and minerals, especially the large deposits of ascarlin. Also called dreamstone, Ascarlin is an extremely rare gem, greatly sought after. A single ascarlin is easily worth a dozen times that a diamond of the same size, and empires have waged wars over just a handful of them. It's a semi-translucent teal-blue stone with red veins running through it. It's incredibly beautiful and, when socketed in magical artifacts, it can increase their power tenfold. The Ascarlin mountains are legendary on some worlds, and their name is often more famous than Felarya's. They attract many people from foreign worlds and their resources are the basis of power for the great city of Negav that lies at their feet. The mountains are riddled with mines, tunnels and small underground cities.

Despite the intense human activity inside, the exterior of the mountains is surprisingly devoid of any trace of human civilization, aside from a few outside passageways. Few predators live there but those that do are dangerous. Rock harpies in particular pose a big threat to reckless miners, with their huge appetite and fearsome wind-based magic.


You'll notice based on the map that the Ascarlin mountains are outside of Negav. That requires transport for mining material, supplies for mining camps, etc. This is not some minor field operation, this is the sole reason for Negav's continued importance outside of Felarya. That means we got ourselves some land vehicles. Probably a lot of mining-centered vehicles; thus what type of land vehicles is the point of debate - not whether or not they have them.

So the actual question you should be asking is not why Negav has the gate. It's what Negav could possibly trade for the Ascarlin. They're not going to give it away for free - what do these other worlds have that would be of value to Negav? Precious metals are always a likelihood - but one must remember, that Negav is basically sitting on the intergalactic gold mine of magitek. Slave labour for the mines? Oh yeah, probably - would also cut down on the need for technology somewhat, since you can just throw bodies at your mining problems ( some technology is going to be needed though ). Artifacts perhaps? Or maybe - some form of advanced services? Negav is small, manufacture offworld has some benefits ( especially in keeping with the idea that Negav is not to be expanded in size ).

The Vish though present us with a different flavour of problem - they will require advanced materials and forges to maintain their facilities and presence. There is a lot of room here for 'waste' material from the Vish - items that are 'beneath them' or have passed serviceable lifetimes. This junk is going to then spread out. Does that make it 'effective'? Not particularly - but it's former Vish stuff. Effectively military surplus. You really think merchants aren't peddling it in Negav to the Adventurer's Guild?



Now, regardless of all that, I would personally claim that Negav's sphere of influence over Felarya as a whole is fairly small. It is the one constant point ( besides the other gate that is sitting besides a dilapidated city anyway ) of prey critters entering and exiting, but it is far from the only point.

What kind of vehicles might you see in Kelerm? Would you see any vehicles there? Over Felarya as a whole, your tech base is fairly limited. You need some serious range fuel reserves to get anywhere else that also has technology ( which as of my knowledge has limited-to-no contact with Negav anywhere, so where are you going exactly ). That's going to limit you then to offworld heavy technology ( TL10+ nuclear equipment, which would still require a sufficient management infrastructure ) or magitek.

That said, you could ( and I did, in my story ) bring in outside tech of sufficient level. Sure, you can only fly so high in Felarya before you can't go back again, but anything in that envelope ( and it is a significant envelope ) is fair game. Could you bring in the parts and build a skyship right outside of Negav? Absolutely. Would the Vish let you? Even if they did, where would you go with said skyship?

I suppose you could be like the old world hunting for gold in the new world ( only this time the target is Ascarlin ), but the Ascarlin mountains are already right there. With an established infrastructure. Lot of resources to waste on the potential to find an Ascarlin reserve that Negav hasn't got control of, assuming they would let you use their gate to transfer it off if you were to establish another mining camp.

The only other ( known ) gate is Ur-Sagol's, which is unclaimed... kinda. Would Negav sit back and let you establish a basehold of that gate? Probably not. Those Vish guns may keep predators at bay, but I wouldn't postulate for an instant they wouldn't also knock down any perceived human threats to their continued existence and importance, either.



My thoughts on this pretty much align with the 'advanced' groups that already exist in Felarya ( as well as the one I wrote ) - for the most part, they're either a displaced reconnaissance-in-force or refugees to some degree or another. In which case, the thing they are seeking is territory, not Ascarlin; and in any case they're all a sufficient distance from the Ascarlin Mountains or the gates to not engage with one another or attract Negav's attentions.

Or are they? Felarya is vast and we don't know all the aspects of it. Could there be a "Lon Tobyn Chronicles" style 'other' continent hitherto unknown that utilises technology instead of magic? Well, noone - Karbo included - has penned it in yet, but if it did exist you could reasonably expect them to have some other natural resource Negav could desire that they could also acquire taxes on should this other group not have access to their own gates. Generally speaking, the reason one hasn't been penned is because of the 'example' left behind by Ur-Sagol and the guardians.
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