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 What does native people think about their age in Felarya?

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PostSubject: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 12:31 am

I wonder in an undying world like Felarya where the only death are from being killed (eaten, assassinated, falling to death, etc), and a 200-year old looks as youthful as a 20-year old, how do people think about their age and generations?

For predators who struggle to survive the harsh nature, I guess they can feel some pride in how long they have lived. From prey's view, old predators are also more cunning and harder to deal with,

For adventurers, I think it depends on how long they have travelled in the wilderness and still manage to survive to tell their tales.

What about people who don't, and never want to, have business in the wilderness? In theory, they can live forever in safe havens, but what will they think about their undying life? If they live for over 1,000 years in Felarya, then they must have a lot of grand, grand-grand, grand-grand-grand... children, if their repopulation rate is as normal as people on Earth. And since ones never get sick, they always have health to do things they want, as long as what they want don't kill them in progress.

To me, it sounds both wonderful and... tiring. I feel Felarya is like the land where everyone is immortal elves, but with more species and faster repopulation rate. I used to see mangas depicting the pain of the immortal when they outlives their family and friends. Someone used to say that our children is the proof of our living.

But I'm not sure how to immerse myself in a world where there is no sickness and natural death if I never step out of my safe haven.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 5:39 am

And that's why the concept of eternal youth and next to no traditional disease wasn't thought all the way through when the concept of Negav entered the picture.

I personally would have changed it to the soil merely granting a longer life-expectancy and making you more resistant to normal diseases, but not outright immune.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 7:43 am

Immortality ( in the sense of living for millennia when humans tend to live for 100 years tops, not as in the literal meaning ) and procreation are adverse principles. As a result they tend to be inversely proportional to one another - as living age increases, child birth decreases. Unchecked population growth is too destructive to environments otherwise. Fortunately Felarya has an answer to that - one hungry predator is all you need to dramatically curb a city's population.

As for the actual discussion at hand, another author has already brilliantly demonstrated these concepts so I'll leave their books to it. Elizabeth Moon's Heris Serrano series tackles immortality through the concept of rejuvenation - being able to 'refresh' the biological components - and how it plays out with society. It is not a direct correlation to Felarya ( no medical procedures required to live forever, and no chance of adverse effects except maybe with some diseases - autoimmune - as have been discussed in prior threads ) but it is the example I know of it being tackled well in a written media form.



For my personal beliefs, I welcome immortality. 100 years is so short, how can you conceive of observation on the galactic, or universal, scale? NDTs Cosmos compared the length of the universe to a single calendar year; the entirety of the human species fits within a portion of a day. This makes the idea of immortality very difficult to grasp, even when we analyse it as I discussed at first - that of being a few millennia, instead of outright lasting forever.

For instance, with using elves as an example. In a game I've played, Alchemy Meister, it is noted in the elven hero's story arc that 'humans are a race that forgets'. The elves had made a promise to a former human, and they tried to fulfill that promise - but the current humans had lived and died many times over and no longer remembered that promise, and as a result thought of the elves as being selfish and prudes. And yet, the elves were just trying to keep the first promise that they made. Is a promise meant not to be broken? How does one reconcile promises kept with creatures that no longer exist, and by the present creatures is no longer relevant?

Back to personal - I, however, am very asocial and am an observer vice a participant. I welcome long periods of isolation and grow weary of even limited social interactions. Analysing myself, I would also note that I do not want children nor do I agree that the 'nuclear family' model as the best step forward. I would argue that a communal family model is a better notion, as it can minimise singular familial groups ( which are the general societal 'norm' for the rearing of youth ) from keeping bad ideas ( note it does not prevent such things ). Thus, I do not fit into 'default' or 'normal' categories for humans, as current social norms are defined.

I would welcome the notion of lethargic process. Humans are very fast paced because we have a very limited duration to actually accomplish anything. This makes us prone to huge mistakes, as we do not accurately or correctly analyse a situation prior to proceeding. It is also what generally makes us referred to as a 'virus'.

This is a lesson taught to us by many media forms, but given the current notion of humanity it is of no surprise that we ignore it. We as a people are brash, and as a social norm we tend to outright ignore anything that brings discomfiture - thus making religion and politics and sexual proclivities and etcetera taboo. It will just disappear if we leave it alone, why do you have to keep bring it back up sorta mentality. If we had the time to spend analysing these notions, perhaps we would not be quite so quick in our judgments and would likely come to a better understanding with which to process them and where a particular idea should be placed on the ethics scale.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 8:37 am

I love how you brought the discredited solution that people die a lot in the jungle, when tkh brought an oft-ignored point: You're a Negavian.  The place is basically disconnected from all the dangers of the wild.  You know the jungle is a death trap.  You therefore have no plan whatsoever to go there.  You live a normal life in a peaceful neighborhood and you have a normal, low-risk job.  Since you can't die from old age, what happens when the same applies to a big portion of this population?  Only the Underground and the Cremona Maze has a low life-expectancy because it's the crime-ridden areas, and most of the adventurers from the Lower Tier are foreigners.  This means that the majority of the population in both the Middle and Higher Tier is either going to be stagnant, or if they reproduce even at a semi-slow pace, there's going to be a few too many mouths to feed at one point.

How does Negav regulate that population?  Is it like The Giver where they kill you when you hit a certain age?
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 9:11 am

Shady Knight wrote:
I love how you brought the discredited solution that people die a lot in the jungle, when tkh brought an oft-ignored point: You're a Negavian.

Are we reading the same posts, because I don't recall talking about the jungle in particular. I specifically recommended reading a bookset, since Moon covers this topic in far greater detail than my laziness and procrastination would allow. Seeing as her bookset is mostly hard sci-fi and takes place in high populated areas, it fits well with the Negavian principle.

Shady Knight wrote:
The place is basically disconnected from all the dangers of the wild.  You know the jungle is a death trap.  You therefore have no plan whatsoever to go there.  You live a normal life in a peaceful neighborhood and you have a normal, low-risk job.  Since you can't die from old age, what happens when the same applies to a big portion of this population?  Only the Underground and the Cremona Maze has a low life-expectancy because it's the crime-ridden areas, and most of the adventurers from the Lower Tier are foreigners.  This means that the majority of the population in both the Middle and Higher Tier is either going to be stagnant, or if they reproduce even at a semi-slow pace, there's going to be a few too many mouths to feed at one point.

How does Negav regulate that population?  Is it like The Giver where they kill you when you hit a certain age?

Not a difficult question. The Magiocrats and Vish have little caring for the populace at large. There might be some that do care, but as noted in the wiki, they are a minority in the government. Thus, we could easily have programs in place like the Chinese had / have, where childbirth is heavily regulated. Hell, population starts getting too high? Time for a "Health & Wellness" inspection.... Negavian style.

It isn't like people can rebel against the magiocrats. Negav is a worse case scene, papered over with a shining whiteness - the better of which evil; hidden or immediate. The predators will eat you if hungry... or on a whim, and the mages will kill you on a whim, and the Vish will kill you on a whim... at least the mages and Vish won't usually kill you if they don't know you exist. The tomes don't go into much detail with regards to the classism of our dear Lady lead, but the inference can be made.

If you have the time to read Moon's books though, you'll find a diatribe on the classism that is created as a result of extreme ageism, ie the people that have lived for several generations of Earth humans vs the young'uns, the people who have lived for 1-3 Earth humans. This will likely be in place in Negav. I would not be surprised if the oldies kicked out the newsies using their longer life length acquired powers / seniority whenever their neighborhoods were threatened with overpopulation.

Thus, it is likely that Negav's population is highly migratory in nature. Well, that's already an established fact, this just helps buffer it. New positions created by the rare death or off-world movement are likely highly coveted and the amount of intrigue occurring in these 'higher' societies probably reaches levels worthy of the Scarlet Pimpernel.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 9:16 am

There is one thing I proposed to limit the population growth to some extent, something that we humans experience and could well apply to all races in different ways. Menopause. You may be immortal in the old age sense, but your body wasn't built for it. Humans, Nekos and other species weren't originally from Felarya, so they could perfectly carry their evolutionary characteristics with them, and with them, the inevitable end of fertility.

As for the buildup of population inside Negav, I had already thought about it for some time. One of the noble families I have developed follow a certain system to replace their head and renew the branching families residing in their mansion, but it's not something I wanted to comment now. I personally see two "solutions" to the Negav problem.

One is the natural autorregulation of the city, but it often turns out bad, specially considering that the outside is dangerous. This autorregulation comes from the needs of people, basically drinking and eating, but shelter also comes into play. If population rises for a static city size, the amount of food it needs rises, but so do the amount of people employed in order to pay for that food. So then, food prices rise because of the demand of food while at the same time the number of available jobs decrease until it reaches a point where it breaks, either from the excessive rise of food price or the exhaustion of the available job positions. Whatever it happens, the population would find it impracticable to live in the city and some would either leave or turn to criminals, but ultimately, a balance would be reached between population added to the city and population leaving it. Theoretically.

The second option is a hard limit on the population of residences. You have a certain number of residents in a house or building, and you mark that as the limit. If a new one comes, one has to leave, unless it's a birth that you give them a time frame to let the children grow and be educated, but when the youngin' is big enough to look after himself, then the rule applies. Kind of hardliner, but the Magiocrats aren't quite known for their love of their people.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 9:29 am

Ilceren wrote:
There is one thing I proposed to limit the population growth to some extent, something that we humans experience and could well apply to all races in different ways. Menopause. You may be immortal in the old age sense, but your body wasn't built for it. Humans, Nekos and other species weren't originally from Felarya, so they could perfectly carry their evolutionary characteristics with them, and with them, the inevitable end of fertility.

Menopause wouldn't work as I understand it of how the Felaryan effect occurs. Menopause is a symptom of biological aging, not that women have run out of eggs. They have not. Because menopause onset is a symptom of biological aging ( excepting items like POF and surgery, which shouldn't apply to Felarya except for people not born there ) and as the effect also provides 'eternal youth', it is unlikely that menopause would actually occur. Would a woman who has already gone through menopause who comes to Felarya be able to have menses again? Well, I don't think anyone has given any real though to that ( but know that a postmenopausal woman or one with a hysterectomy / POF likely has a severely degraded - if still present at all - reproductive complex ).

A better question would be, as people gain more and more magical energy by staying in Felarya ( noted in soil / water effects and transition of magic to nonmagic people / species ) do they gain better control of their bodies? IE, could a woman of sufficient age invoke a magical prerogative to shut down aspects of her reproductive system? I would say yes, because often in non-tech societies magic is used for protecting against STDs and unwanted childbirth. You might very well say no, in which case we're back to the more icky methods of splattering / evicting the extra populations generated.




Shady Knight wrote:
aethernavale wrote:
Unchecked population growth is too destructive to environments otherwise. Fortunately Felarya has an answer to that - one hungry predator is all you need to dramatically curb a city's population.

I don't think you'll find many giant nagas in the Negav. And before you bring up the existence of predators that can bypass the Isolon Eye, I would like to point out that they are absurdly rare.

Negav is more than just the walled city. It includes the mining encampments and the outer reaches, which are protected by the weaker, smaller, copied forms of the Eye.

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, don't forget, everything you bring up as potential solution to Negav having a growing population of immortal is pure conjecture. We don't have any proof until Karbo decides to confirm or deny any of it.

Oh my my, I shall immediately cease discussion of the portrayal of my thoughts because Shady needs to gatekeep. I am presenting a discussion on the methods for how this is portrayed. I have chosen my words to be as carefully neutral as possible. In fact, I have overused the word possibly so much it hurts my writer's senses.


Last edited by aethernavale on Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 9:32 am

Combined above posts so this one can be about the thread instead.

Ilceren wrote:
As for the buildup of population inside Negav, I had already thought about it for some time. One of the noble families I have developed follow a certain system to replace their head and renew the branching families residing in their mansion, but it's not something I wanted to comment now. I personally see two "solutions" to the Negav problem.

One is the natural autorregulation of the city, but it often turns out bad, specially considering that the outside is dangerous. This autorregulation comes from the needs of people, basically drinking and eating, but shelter also comes into play. If population rises for a static city size, the amount of food it needs rises, but so do the amount of people employed in order to pay for that food. So then, food prices rise because of the demand of food while at the same time the number of available jobs decrease until it reaches a point where it breaks, either from the excessive rise of food price or the exhaustion of the available job positions. Whatever it happens, the population would find it impracticable to live in the city and some would either leave or turn to criminals, but ultimately, a balance would be reached between population added to the city and population leaving it. Theoretically.

The second option is a hard limit on the population of residences. You have a certain number of residents in a house or building, and you mark that as the limit. If a new one comes, one has to leave, unless it's a birth that you give them a time frame to let the children grow and be educated, but when the youngin' is big enough to look after himself, then the rule applies. Kind of hardliner, but the Magiocrats aren't quite known for their love of their people.

A thought: apprenticeships? What if 'residents' - even those who are born in Negav - are required to apprentice in the ascarlin mines or the Motamo docks prior to applying for residency? Perhaps also go out on a pilgrimage for ruins / magic development? The survivors are definitely going to be either hardy or magically developed, and thus 'welcome' to stay. Good way to "get rid of" people too.

The docks aren't well developed, but I really wonder about them. Motamo is so small compared to Negav, and yet... how does that work? There are ships on the seas of Felarya ostensibly doing trade with someone... but who? Chioita City? Nothing mentioned of it. Is trade that small? Only one or two ships? There are no other docks shown in Negav, so if anything is traveling by water into Negav it has to go through Motamo. Kinda off topic to go deeper down this rabbit hole here, but if we accept the apprenticeship idea to acquire residency status in Negav, the docks provide us an easy answer filled with dangerous work... assuming the docks see regular trade traffic.

Obviously, classism would allow the 'upper crust' to exempt themselves from these notions. Maybe they apprentice into 'safe' jobs, like mining group leaders or customs at Motamo Docks or some college / the Adventurer's Guild HR dept? Generally speaking though, higher class groups would tend to have fewer children anyway, esp. when we take in the notion that these groups don't want future competition from their ilk.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 2:47 pm

First off, apologies for the gatekeeping previously, that was really dumb of me.

Anyway, the wiki doesn't really support the idea of a migratory people, and the concept of releasing people when/if they reach a mandated age seems a little shaky given that the Magiocrats are well aware that they can't be too despotic, otherwise a civil war might explode, which did not end well last time it happened. Not only that, but it may also give the Vish the opening they need to swipe power from the Magiocrats.

Quote :
Wise Magiocrats know their rules on Negav cannot be too tough and must remain bearable, unless they want to have their heads on a pike. Negavians have revolted many times in the past, and have gone trough many catastrophes but, like their city, they are still there.
Negavians tend to complain a lot about life on Felarya, but in the same time they hold a sort of pride in being there, on what is widely recognized as one of the most dangerous known worlds for humans. Moreover living in Negav feels like being in the center of things, with so many different people passing through, carrying with them rumors, epic tales and, sometimes, fantastic treasures. Negav is the city where adventures and legends are born. Many people who have lived in Negav for several years but decided one day to leave Felarya find themselves irresistibly drawn back to the city a few years later. They say that life does not have the same flavor outside Negav. As the saying goes: "Once a Negavian, always a Negavian."

On a side note, for some reason, given the fact that working outside the city is such a dangerous task, it almost feels like working in the mines should be a sentence for criminals. Obviously it's not the case because the stuff they mine is too valuable.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 3:02 pm

So are we going back to the negavgan social/economical,societal topic again are we talking about the regards of life longevity and the effects it brings out in people? I can say there's already a topic for the prior and i'd wish you'd consider putting further dabbling in that thread. It's not like it's dead once people stop talking since as i can see now, It's a recurring subject.

To direct, It's right here.

Anyways I'm more curious how the locals assimilate the ideas to newcomers that aren't from felarya and the steps to explain that you basically have eternal youth. (Immortal or eternal youth? last thread that mentioned that i had no idea what felarya's or rather karbo's verdict on that was) I mean sure it's a nice concept for doing what you want. But the dangers of world as mentioned previously make it short since felaray is a death world. So It makes me think what kind of advice or idioms or psychology one must do to explain that living in safe havens doesn't guarantee your immortality to be as fruitful as one might think it is. Though it must be because of that that you could recruit an offworlder easily to go adventuring, treasurefinding, salvaging or what have you. They aren't going to be cautious at the fact that they can live for an indefinite long time now as opposed to someone who is raised there that treads more carefully in what they do in a survival oriented environment.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 12, 2015 3:03 pm

Wow - this to read would need some Time. I remember a Movie from the 70s, setted in a high-Tech-City after the nuclear Armageddon. A City, where anyone over 30 Years was been `deleted´.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 13, 2015 3:42 am

I think ones of the method to regulate the population is:
-Birth control: punishment on people who have second child. This happens in China, which results in a lot of one-child families. Noble class, of course, will have it easier.
-Public service: when reaching a certain age, a Negavian must prove his/her "usefulness" to the society. It may involve military service, which will send people to dangerous places. Unlucky people will perish, while the talented survive to contribute even more. Upper class, if having to, will send their children to do something safer.
-Culture: Negavian culture intentionally focuses strongly on adventure theme, which provides people with tales, stories, poets, music... about the glory and wealth waiting for adventurers, explorers and monster slayers who dare to venture into the depth. The weak perishes, and the strong (or smart or having noble lineage) will remain. Influenced by their thrill-seeking culture, young and naive adventurers will happily throw themselves into dangers without a second thought, and loudly criticize people who stay in safe havens. The government may even give a boost to this culture with speeches and banners.
-High payment for dangerous jobs: A good way to get rid of incompetent money-seeker. If you succeed, you receive a huge sum. If you don't, you become Felarya's fertilizer.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 13, 2015 6:03 am

I don't think any of those would work, except for the last one.  Like I said, and quoted, the government can't be too hard, otherwise another civil war will explode, and it will be much worse because they're also keeping the Vishmitals in check.  Punishing a family for having a second child seems pretty rough.  Sure, it may happen in China, but I'm pretty sure people don't like the Chinese government very much.  Drafting seems far too harsh.  Remember that the idea of Felarya is that it's one of the most dangerous worlds for a human.  In theory, let's say 100 people went to "prove their usefulness" by going somewhere dangerous, at best only 40 people would return alive, maybe even much less.  I think Negavians would be outraged that so many people are essentially sent to their deaths for not doing anything wrong.  Same with the culture of trying to encourage people to, again, be sent to their death.  Negavians aren't stupid, they're going to think that the government is being passive-aggressive and trying to tell them that they're unwanted.  They know how dangerous it is outside, and in many cases they'll think the reward just isn't worth it.

I'll quote the wiki again, this time the whole paragraph.

Quote :
Negavians form a very cosmopolitan society, coming from worlds from all around the universe. Curious adventurers, greedy treasure hunters, foolhardy warriors, ruthless thugs, stranded travelers, self-proclaimed heroes... they all came there with the prospect of becoming fabulously rich, retrieving legendary artifacts, becoming stronger, living a peaceful and eternal life, or simply ended there by accident. Even with so many varied origins however, living in a world such as Felarya gave Negavians some commonly shared traits. They form a hardened and rather fatalistic people, practical and quite cynical. They frown upon wastefulness and will often try to take what is apparently broken or damaged and either repair it or turn it into something useful. They are not very easy to impress and difficult to cow. Wise Magiocrats know their rules on Negav cannot be too tough and must remain bearable, unless they want to have their heads on a pike. Negavians have revolted many times in the past, and have gone trough many catastrophes but, like their city, they are still there.

Negavians tend to complain a lot about life on Felarya, but in the same time they hold a sort of pride in being there, on what is widely recognized as one of the most dangerous known worlds for humans. Moreover living in Negav feels like being in the center of things, with so many different people passing through, carrying with them rumors, epic tales and, sometimes, fantastic treasures. Negav is the city where adventures and legends are born. Many people who have lived in Negav for several years but decided one day to leave Felarya find themselves irresistibly drawn back to the city a few years later. They say that life does not have the same flavor outside Negav. As the saying goes: "Once a Negavian, always a Negavian."

Negavians are naturally cautious of non-humans. With so many beings coming from other worlds, they have developed at least a certain tolerance toward them, but they aren't welcoming them with open arms either. For example many taverns and bars would refuse entry to creatures with too many arms or inhuman features. The situation is even worse for tauric beings. Simply entering Negav is very difficult for them, and the few who are admitted in can feel an acute and unrelenting latent hostility all around them.

Now, I want to bring attention to the first paragraph. I think it's an error. A Negavian should be someone who was born in Negav and is a citizen of the city. The paragraph instead sounds more like the kind of people you could find in the city, which since many of them are adventurers that came from another world and has established only a temporary residence, doesn't seem to fit the idea of someone born and raised in the city itself. Further contradiction to that first paragraph can be found in other sections of Negav's entry.

Opening text for Lower Tier wrote:
The lower tier of Negav is the one closest to the walls. It thus has many buildings and constructions designed for defense; police stations, military barracks and hydromancers headquarters are, for the most part, situated there. The lower tier has the largest amount of inns and taverns of Negav, and is the part of the city where adventurers usually meet and congregate. Naturally, There are also many shops designed to capitalize on said adventurers. In some districts, it is believed that the number of adventurers often surpasses the number of actual Negav citizens. Thus, people living in the lower tier rely on adventurers and explorers for their livelihood and are often seen as more welcoming and friendly to foreigners than those living in higher tiers.

Opening text for Middle Tier wrote:
Slightly higher than the lower tier of Negav, the Middle Tier is where the majority of Negavians live. The market, banks, temples and most other such public buildings can be found in this tier, as well as many residential buildings. This is also where the public squares and parks are situated.

As you can see, it's quite obvious that Negavian was intended to be the term for someone born and raised in Negav, but either due to clumsy or working too late at night, it sounds more like anyone who is in Negav, even adventurers from another world, is a Negavian. I guess it's trying to say that Negavians are descendants of adventurers and such, but again, clumsy wording.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 13, 2015 6:40 am

Shady Knight wrote:
I don't think any of those would work, except for the last one.  Like I said, and quoted, the government can't be too hard, otherwise another civil war will explode, and it will be much worse because they're also keeping the Vishmitals in check.  Punishing a family for having a second child seems pretty rough.  Sure, it may happen in China, but I'm pretty sure people don't like the Chinese government very much.

Birth control to such an extreme isn't that harsh for Felarya. Recall, also from the wiki, that the more 'responsible' people in Negav fear expansion of the city, lest another Ur-Sagol occurs. Thus, even the more 'level-headed' people will welcome tactics that prevent a population excursion amoungst permanent settlers of the city.

Noone is stating that it need be as draconian as putting people to death because of a child or two; just that a family unit is only allowed one or two children at a time within a specified time frame.

Shady Knight wrote:
Drafting seems far too harsh.  Remember that the idea of Felarya is that it's one of the most dangerous worlds for a human.  In theory, let's say 100 people went to "prove their usefulness" by going somewhere dangerous, at best only 40 people would return alive, maybe even much less.  I think Negavians would be outraged that so many people are essentially sent to their deaths for not doing anything wrong.  Same with the culture of trying to encourage people to, again, be sent to their death.  Negavians aren't stupid, they're going to think that the government is being passive-aggressive and trying to tell them that they're unwanted.  They know how dangerous it is outside, and in many cases they'll think the reward just isn't worth it.

Now, I want to bring attention to the first paragraph.  I think it's an error.  A Negavian should be someone who was born in Negav and is a citizen of the city.  The paragraph instead sounds more like the kind of people you could find in the city, which since many of them are adventurers that came from another world and has established only a temporary residence, doesn't seem to fit the idea of someone born and raised in the city itself.  Further contradiction to that first paragraph can be found in other sections of Negav's entry.

This I sort of agree with. I would point out the residency establishment I mentioned earlier. Most of the people in Negav are migrants, and could easily live there on temporary visas that lasted no more than a few years at a time. No doubt a sizable service economy could be established just for this purpose, especially given the ascarlin trade and the great market district.

However, to become a full-time accepted resident of a city with a hardy people, those seeking to gain it should also prove themselves. As noted, Negavians are a hardy people, they have gone through much. Traditions will be heavily invoked, providing great influence as a good deal of people are still possibly alive from said events.

In the event of a child limiting program, as remarked above, the children are given x number of years to mature ( whatever that might be for a society that tends to live long periods of time ) and then acquire temporary visas once they become adults. If they wish to establish permanent residency in Negav, they must earn it vice being born into it.

Classism and friends-with-benefits and the greasing of palms aside, the commoners way ( or perhaps the legal way ) to obtaining residency will most likely involve danger - inside or outside of Negav. The mines and the docks are two good examples outside Negav that don't require death trips for highly potential ( as in, may not even exist ) gains. Inside of Negav you have plenty of opportunities given the ascarlin trade, the market district / services economy, and the adventurer's guild.
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Shady Knight
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What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 13, 2015 7:05 am

But the wiki doesn't seem to support that Negavians are migrants.  Adventurers, sure, but not Negavians.  This is my third time quoting this.

Quote :
Many people who have lived in Negav for several years but decided one day to leave Felarya find themselves irresistibly drawn back to the city a few years later. They say that life does not have the same flavor outside Negav. As the saying goes: "Once a Negavian, always a Negavian."

It says it black on white.  In most occasion, nine times out of ten, they'll want to come back.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 13, 2015 7:12 am

Shady Knight wrote:
But the wiki doesn't seem to support that Negavians are migrants.  Adventurers, sure, but not Negavians.  This is my third time quoting this.

Quote :
Many people who have lived in Negav for several years but decided one day to leave Felarya find themselves irresistibly drawn back to the city a few years later. They say that life does not have the same flavor outside Negav. As the saying goes: "Once a Negavian, always a Negavian."

It says it black on white.  In most occasion, nine times out of ten, they'll want to come back.

aethernavale wrote:
This I sort of agree with. I would point out the residency establishment I mentioned earlier. Most of the people in Negav are migrants, and could easily live there on temporary visas that lasted no more than a few years at a time. No doubt a sizable service economy could be established just for this purpose, especially given the ascarlin trade and the great market district.

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. I said the people in Negav are migrants, not the people of Negav, ie Negavians, ie residents. Unless you purporting to instead state that everyone who comes to Negav stays in Negav as a permanent resident? Because that is not how I read the wiki statement you quoted.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 13, 2015 7:17 am

Oh, whoops.  My bad.

Anyway, hopefully without making a fool of myself again, a thought occurred to me. If Negav regulate its citizen population, what if instead of "releasing" you when you reach a set age, let's say 94 years old, they instead "release" citizens based on how many years of service they offered. Like, after you worked 50 or so years at a certain job, the number may vary according to the job itself, you're considered retired and you have to leave your place to the younger generation. I imagine work productivity is a big thing for them since they're worried about expansion, and so they gotta do with the limited space they got, which by all rights isn't that limited.
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2015 3:48 am

They could just expand Negav to accommodate the new people and the older generations. Whats the worst that could happen? Some mythical deity destroys them due to populating out of control?

Pfft, like that's ever happened before. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2015 5:25 am

So, wait; when are birthdays celebrated?
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2015 5:38 am

I think, when they really occur - Even when `immortal´, You still have a Birthday, don´t You?

It´s not, that there are Giants this big, they need three Days in a Row to get born I think... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2015 8:23 am

Still, there are birthdays, right...?
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PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2015 8:56 am

Well, the people of Negav had to be born on a specific day, and they remember that day as the day they were born.  So yes, I would imagine Negavians have what we refer to as birthdays.  If your question is instead "do they celebrate birthdays the same way we do", then it's up to personal interpretation.  I personally imagine they don't put as much emphasis to it as we do since age is mostly irrelevant to them.


Last edited by Shady Knight on Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What does native people think about their age in Felarya?   What does native people think about their age in Felarya? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 14, 2015 8:58 am

Yeah.
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