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Shady Knight
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PostSubject: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:47 am

Following a small tangent in another thread, it made me think about opening a discussion about farms in Felarya, mostly around Negav since there's plenty of space outside the walls and a fancy shmancy barrier keeping all the giant monsters away. How big do you think crops would be there? What do you think they would harvest? Think they would use different tools than we do or predominantly use magic to assist them? What about animals? Do you think they would raise exotic animals that you don't see on Earth alongside cows, pigs and chickens? What would be the greatest danger to such farms in your opinion?
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:56 am

Well, at first, it seemed like it wouldn't work to me, but that doesn't mean there aren't any farms at all.


I was pointed out that giant produce wouldn't be too outlandish. Supposedly, everything is bigger in Felarya, and we do have things in the wiki like drulps (giant potatoes), citroises (giant peaches), etcetera. I'd expect more commodities than necessities being farmed, because cultivable land in Negav would be relatively small (the city is 90 square miles; it's not crazy to think the total farmland around it is on the ballpark of 100-500 square miles. There are ranches bigger than that), so it'd be best to make the most of what they've got: the land around it should be pretty damn good. Between the best tobacco in the universe and the best apples in the universe, which one do you think will give you the biggest profits?

However, we should point out that Negav doesn't have a "barrier", but a "range" of different distances that predators cannot approach, and it varies with the size and voracity of the individual predator. So while there may be distances that are safe as far as Crisis is concerned, another predator may very well be able to get closer. So some predators may be capable of representing a threat to some of the farms farther away from the Eye (if they aren't worried about being shot at with a giant cannon, that is).

We know the Eye is relatively recent, so while they have magiocrats, it may very well be that the magic hasn't gotten that far yet. But to think they don't have any mechanical aid feels really outlandish to me: I'd recommend saying they use big machines and animals. If they are using magic, they should have been using it from before then.

Speaking of animals, we have yet to see cows, pigs and chickens in Felarya. Horses, we've seen, but I'd rather think they have some other kinds of interesting creatures too. Perhaps some of them can double as draft or riding animals?

Strange you ask what the greatest danger would be. I was writing an article on Chomikai fauna; I considered that ironically, the Eye would actually be responsible for some of the dangers, as without giant predators, you should have a lot of the creatures immediately below in the trophic chain. So I'd say the greatest dangers would be creatures around 12 feet in size, and also hungry for mankind and its delicious crops and livestock. Then there's parasites and plagues, but that's another subject.



There should also be farms anywhere beyond Negav, but let's start with Negav.

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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:19 pm

I've suggested making some kind of Felarya-equivalent of vertical farming (of which I am a huge fan of Razz ). With magic its always possible - as long as we try to keep it with as less magic as we can manage, so the whole thing doesn't look contrived. We already know Negavians can build large structures. so that's not a problem. Of course, power to keep plants fed and maintained properly is, but there's always a way to find things out.

Barring that, the influence seems to be in a (largely) perfect circle. Having trees cleared out in that perfect circle and replacing it all with farmland could be interesting. It would also be myserious, after Negav gets abandoned (there's always a cycle in felarya), and people come across a clearing of trees in a perfect circle, they might wonder what kind of civilization managed to do that. I always like those little things.

I like to see the eye as an air of 'pressure'. The pressure gets more intense the closer to Negav you get. Some creatures can suffer through that pressure better than others. Creatures with a high resilience to pain might find it bearable up to a certain point given traditional habits and culture from the tribes in the jungle.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:11 pm

If magic can create another space(like what Subeta does with her vault), then can we expect some dimensional farming? : P
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:29 pm

That would require exceptionally powerful magic I imagine, magic that I'm very doubtful more than a select few would be able to master. †Cause unlike a vault, you're basically creating several acres of land, or however big a typical farmland is, in a pocket dimension. †You also have to ensure it's the right condition for growth, routinely go there to tend to the crops and possibly the animals living there. †That's a lot more space to create on top of a lot more maintenance than essentially a very big, yet very portable closet.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:47 pm

So, if it is not good for farming, I guess it is good for storing products then? A place where there is no rain, no sunlight, untouched by pests, thieves and is always dry.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:58 pm

Maybe, but at that point, wouldn't it be cheaper and more effective to just make a regular storage then? There's probably a lot more people skilled at carpentry than there are at making bags of holding. Probably easier to use and access, and probably doesn't carry the penalty of your stuff being irretrievable in case your hyperdimensional storage gets damaged one way or another. Just saying, just because you can do it the wizard way doesn't mean you should.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:32 pm

It may be not the best way, but seems to be feasible enough to deploy. Though, since it is Felarya, if there is someone attempting, the storage may turn into something else... very bizzare, like an overgrown garden with hornet tomatoes : P
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:27 pm

I wouldn't say creating a pocket dimension for farming in a dimensionally unstable place like Felarya would be a good idea XD Subeta does it, but I'm pretty sure she has an ace up her sleeve... when she wears them, that is.

As for farming, you can pretty much see what farms there are in the Negav map. There are a few close by to the city and some walls and watch towers since, as someone pretty well pointed out, predator-free doesn't really mean danger-free. As for the taking down of trees in the range, remember that the circle is the "general area", safe from a good deal of the preds, but not of them all. It's there for reference purposes, but there's no actual way to know its range precisely in the field. There's an additional drawback, too. If you cut down a giant tree, how do you deal with the giant roots underground? You won't be able to grow any plant around there for a long time.

I am of the thinking you would use magic to aid in the cultivation, though. Since Felarya's seasons are so strange, you'll probably need some magical aid to help your plants survive a sudden winter that pops up little after the seeding season, for example.

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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:31 pm

Yeah, about that, I talked to Karbo about it, and apparently there are no cases of weird seasonal changes in most parts of Felarya, or seasonal changes at all. So whatever season Tolmeshal Forest is at is the only season it's gonna stay at barring outside interference or maybe a dimensional anomaly. So according to that, the whole weird seasons wouldn't be a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:44 pm

True, its pretty much always summer. (or whatever season) But the exception to this is Kriss Mas where it is suddenly winter!

(I still get a kick over that)
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:07 pm

I wonder what kind of food plants Felaryan farmers grow? Native rice, wheat, maize, potatoes...?

Or maybe they don't grow these common food at once: They import them through dimensional trading. If they ever grow something, it would have to be:
-Safe to grow: you can grow it safely away from predators, and the plant needs to be something that do not find you as something edible.
-Yield high quantity: consider the limit of land expansion that major settlement can and with the aid of science/magic:
+Underground farming: if you cannot expand in term of width, let do it in term of depth. Just don't dig too deep
+Inside-the-tree farming: scrap out the inside of a giant tree, divide it into many floors, grow plants here. Another vertical farming
+Dimensional farming: have mentioed above
+Size-shifted farming: Put normal-size plants into tiny size constantly to save space, and turn them back when harvesting. It may generate jobs for tiny folks, though the manager must not be a neko.
+Asking the giants: well, if you're in friendship with some predator-size people who are willing, or mind-controlled, or threatened, then you can down trees and plough soils in an amazing rate. They can also take care of giant-sized plants and can protect themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:59 am

Well I've mentioned it before, but I always thought Nekomura would be a place of agriculture. It's Outside the city, it has protection, it has a population well suited to hunting and gathering and trading grown goods to Negav could be part of their payment to the Magiocrats for maintaining their anti-pred field.

They just have to be careful when making the trip to Negav and hope there's no preds on the road between the two places....otherwise the lucky preds will be getting a hearty meal of meat and veggies.

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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:22 am

There are a few snags with that. For starters, even assuming that Nekomura is mostly farms, just looking at the new map, you can see that the size difference between it and Negav is just too big. A 50/50 or so split would be too small for Negav as it is today, and probably also be too small for Nekomura itself. They probably used that kind of payment when Negav was smaller, but after it expanded as much as it did, a split on Nekomura's harvest is now too small, hence why as of the updated Nekomura entry, their "tax" to keep their Isolon Eye active is now mandatory service of their best scouts during the Isolon's Fist missions. In other words, vassalage.
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:55 am

You don't need magic for vertical farming, just use hydroponics. Can use magic to tend the crop and move the water so your aquifers can be straight up and down if you want instead of long and sloping. Felarya has plenty of water ways, access to water shouldn't be an issue. The real question is how to not get eaten building it. Aquifers would be an easy mode of transport, and would stand most tests in Felarya ( burrowing animals might cause issue ) so once it's built it's probably good but building it will be the issue. Material movement, clearing the way for construction, plus maintaining a hole in a waterway that doesn't invite mermaids...
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:58 am

Depending on how little you care about actual biology, grafting works too. Some of the trees in Felarya are really tall, so you should have plenty of room for grafting scions you can cultivate for food. Some of the stock plants may be hardy enough to preclude any need for care, too.

So you could, in theory, in the wild, graft plants in high roots so they get plenty of sunlight without curious predators finding it, and even if they don't, the plants can just take nutrients from the tree (so if you're too concerned about harpies to let your veggies see the sky, not everything is lost yet).

Just saying, if you don't have the Isolon Eye, anything that needs sunlight will also need an illusion to keep the harpies from finding it. Razz It might be best to let a larger, inconspicuous plant do the photosynthesis for your veggies. Or find a place where harpies don't go.

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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:32 am

That's an interesting topic ^^

Well when I drew the map of Negav i added some hints of farmland indeed. The area in the vicinity of the city would be perfect for that I think.
And while Mebron provide a lot of food to Negav ( http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Versology#Mebron ) It's clear the city has to be self-relient to a minimum extent.

From dimensional farming to size-shifting farming there are good and inventive ideas here Razz Although I'm curious how would you see vertical farming to look there ?
Great thread, let's tackle that problem Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Farms in Felarya   Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:02 pm

Okay, let's leave Negav for now and concentrate on how farms would be like in other settlements. For example, Nekomura isn't as advanced as Negav is, both in terms of magic and technology. So it seems pretty obvious that their farms, if they have any, would be quite different from Negav. For the Safe Harbor, that one seems a bit of a doozy, since they rely on Jade to keep them safe, so they don't have a whole lot of room to expand to. Speaking of Jade, I think it would be neat if she played some kind of role in setting farms up, like clearing some land faster by virtue of being giant. I think the most interesting farms would be the ones in Kortiki Town. Since the town is mostly populated by fairies, I think there are a lot of possibilities of what they could bring to the table when it comes to growing crops and possibly raising animals.
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