Felarya

Felarya forum
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 Proceedings of the forum discussion

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Stabs
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1821
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 27
Location : The Coil, Miragia

PostSubject: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:18 pm

Given the dA discussion is cooling down, I thought I'd unify proceedings from both areas. It would also make it a lot easier for them to follow the proceedings if we shortened them a bit.

Can I ask everyone involved in the discussion to check if I've misquoted them or left out something important* before I make another blog post in dA?

*Plugs and examples aren't important.

======

Spoiler:
 

_________________
Fais que ton rêve soit plus long que la nuit.


Last edited by Stabs on Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:15 pm; edited 7 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
SenecaHyde
Naga food
avatar

Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:50 pm

Brilliant job going through everything and summarizing it. It must have been a lot of work.

The only thing that I notice missing from your summary is that you should first and foremost emphasize that 100% caution will be taken to make sure nothing beloved about the universe is being lost, as we had seen this fear expressed in a separate topic here. I think that needs to be mentioned right up front to dispell fears. Stakeholders are here because they like the material, so it's likely the topic of changing something about it will make a lot of people nervous.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Darth_Nergal
Hero
Hero
avatar

Posts : 1175
Join date : 2012-06-05
Age : 26
Location : Someplace north Tonorian Hive, south of the Chordoni Waterfall, east of the Kuwuni bridge, and west of the Lataran Temple

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:12 pm

Yay this is rather useful for me. Due to summer college classes getting in the way I had no real idea what was happening. I knew there was a lot of discussion going on, but my lack of time made it difficult to read everything about it. And I'm not really comfortable inserting myself into a discussion unless I know what is going on and know I have something relevant to add. Which...I still have nothing relevant to add. ._.;;; At least I know what's going on now though.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.sithlordnergal.deviantart.com
Pendragon
Grand Mecha Enthusiast
Grand Mecha Enthusiast


Posts : 3222
Join date : 2007-12-09

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:47 pm

i feel like extremes aren't very helpful in these situations. We should strive for a more moderate approach. Only a sith deals in absolutes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
French snack
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1165
Join date : 2009-04-05
Location : in Milly's stomach. Care to join me?

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:32 am

Well done, stabs. That's quite a neat overview of suggestions.

To be honest, for my part, I'm reasonably content with the way things are now. Which is why I've stayed out of the conversation so far: I have no real suggestions to make.

I'm tentatively of the view that the wiki should remain a repository of canon. It's useful for contributors who want to work within the canon, and to draw inspiration from it. There should continue to be a distinction between stuff which is canon; stuff which isn't canon but which fits with the canon (That's what the dA group gallery is for); and stuff which doesn't fit with the canon. (So as to avoid confusing new contributors.)

_________________
Meet Milly the giantess, Jissy the naga, Tina the tomthumb, and the others... My Felarya stories are here, and here.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shady Knight
Lord of the Elements
avatar

Posts : 4511
Join date : 2008-01-20
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:56 am

You know, I've been hearing this talk of canon and fanon a lot in this discussion, and I need to ask: what exactly IS canon in Felarya?  How do we decide which story is canon and which isn't?  Is it only what is listed in the wiki that's canon?  Are the characters that Karbo put in the wiki the only canon characters?  What factors decide that a story will be promoted to canon over another? If a story gets promoted to canon, but only half of the main cast gets listed in the wiki, because the wiki updates at the pace of an asthmatic turtle with terminal lung cancer, does that mean that only they are canon, and the others aren't until decided otherwise?  I think before we resolve this issue of canon and fanon, if that's the solution that's going to get pick, we need to pinpoint what exactly is considered canon in Felarya.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://shady-knight.deviantart.com/
gwadahunter2222
Master cartographer
Master cartographer
avatar

Posts : 1835
Join date : 2007-12-08
Age : 33

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:45 am

Shady Knight wrote:
You know, I've been hearing this talk of canon and fanon a lot in this discussion, and I need to ask: what exactly IS canon in Felarya?  How do we decide which story is canon and which isn't?  Is it only what is listed in the wiki that's canon?  Are the characters that Karbo put in the wiki the only canon characters?  What factors decide that a story will be promoted to canon over another?  If a story gets promoted to canon, but only half of the main cast gets listed in the wiki, because the wiki updates at the pace of an asthmatic turtle with terminal lung cancer, does that mean that only they are canon, and the others aren't until decided otherwise?  I think before we resolve this issue of canon and fanon, if that's the solution that's going to get pick, we need to pinpoint what exactly is considered canon in Felarya.
It's up to Karbo. A character becomes canon how he judges the character can fit in his universe. The wiki's entry it's just a reference to the future authors what kind of characters they can create. However the story itself is not necessary canon, the character's trait can fit the world in Karbo's mind but not necessary all the elements and other characters developed through the story.


Last edited by gwadahunter2222 on Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : changed interaction by trait)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://gwadahunter2222.deviantart.com/
SenecaHyde
Naga food
avatar

Posts : 34
Join date : 2014-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:23 am

We've got a lot on the table already, but we also have the option of using the wiki the way it currently is, but then creating something new to address the issues we're facing.

I'm concerned that the wiki isn't a very accessible source for new enthusiasts. That doesn't mean the wiki is the flaw here; it just might be that we need some other kind of resource to get people started. And we're asking a lot of the right questions now to figure out the right way to do that. Imagine if you're tasked with writing a story about the history of Portugal, and your only possible sources of information are Wikipedia or historical fiction written by other people whose only sources were Wikipedia. Difficult, right?

The issue is pronounced by how over time, as more material gets added to the wiki, it becomes, almost by definition, harder for new enthusiasts to learn all the material. That means that as anyone drops out of developing the universe, they're less likely to be replaced, and much more likely that the replacement has a looser grasp on the material.

Granted, what I'm bringing up addresses an entirely different concern than what many of the people in this discussion are having issues with, so if we need to spin off the user experience discussion into a separate discussion or put it on hold until the wiki discussion is done, we can do that.

And just so I don't forget, here are two random ideas that could ameliorate the issue I'm referring to:
-Use Blazblue as an example. It's a fighting game with an elaborate mythos, and each game typically has at least a modicum of user-friendly shorts designed to offer lessons about the universe. Treat it as if we're developing a self guided class to teach the material in the wiki.

-Release a monthly publication to get information across. It could be structured like Nintendo Power, with articles regarding the canon, previews/reviews, fan artwork, a Q&A column, etc. Caveat is this would be a ton of work.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
dragon808tr
Survivor
Survivor


Posts : 840
Join date : 2014-10-30

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:27 am

I consider cannon the tomes by Karbo. Obviously, everyone in there is cannon. Additionally, if a character is on the Wiki, but not in the tomes (yet) they are cannon to me as well, especially if they interact with a canon character approved by Karbo (Example: Elle). I also consider something canon if it comes from a well known Felarya Writer (French Snack, El Portero Karbo, others like that who I can't think of now).

For me "Fannon" is outside this. For examples, non wiki OC's. Like If I made a character. Unless many like them, its not going to be cannon. But I think just concidering Karbo's characters as Cannon is a little bit much, It would be a pretty empty world! Plus Leucia, Catlin, Belletina, Elle and others are all canon as well, we can't forget them!

I haven't had time to read the top throughly, but you know of my concerns in the thread. I just don't want to lose anyone like that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ravaging vixen
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 504
Join date : 2010-02-07
Age : 26
Location : Rocky mountains

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:59 am

Dragon...then that requires character rights of the persons character. As said before. If you don't want to lose anyone logically. Then you need to give complete character rights to karbo and work with him on how you want the character portrayed officially. Other wise they become useless filler in the wiki (or anywhere really) as the person who had them before is no longer invested or active in their contribution to felarya. Needs to be given and clean or done away with entirely. Like senchahide, and stabs was saying. Trimming of fat is needed. And if you love somebody else's characters that aren't in what karbo considers cannon (even outside the tomes) its easy to tell. Besides the tone of his drawing and or design is different then others and he might consider something outside his work cannon if given enough verification and notice from him himself. He needs to make it official of what it is though and this takes frequent coordination as needed.

_________________
Mayhem ex Machina!

"Making friends with giantess aliens isn't so bad..."


Last edited by ravaging vixen on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Amaroq
Great warrior
Great warrior
avatar

Posts : 461
Join date : 2008-07-19
Age : 29

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:25 pm

The need for realism/vore will be treated together.

Amaroq: "I do think realism needs to be tackled, and it is safe to assume that, unless stated otherwise, for convenience earthern standards should be able to be applied as a general note, where noteworthy exceptions such as the square cube law or the previously mostly unexplained desire to eat stuff and especially people whole and alive should be mentioned and pointed out. It doesnt HAVE to be explained for its reasons, but AT LEAST for the presence of such exceptions, because I often see arguments coming up about exactly those things, especially when newer people join the community and arent familiar with those unspoken traits. This way it will be much easier for new people to find into the world setting.
As for vore: I admit I came to felarya for vore and it kept me because of the vore for a great part. I am not the only one thinking like that, so I believe felarya should remember its roots and stay with the fetish aspect making up a great part of it to prevent it from becoming Jurassic Parc Giantess edition as said before. "


======

We'll repeat now what has been said regarding the solution of picking a direction, a tone, a purpose, or a theme.


Amaroq: "What the setting needs first and foremost is a rough Guideline about what the setting should feature at its very core. Not examples like "there are Laser rifles but no nuclear devices" as that makes little sense, but roughly what SPIRIT and THEME the world should have. [...] Felarya needs more precise guidelines, an agenda of expectations so to speak, where people might be clear about what can be found on Felarya innately, and what could only possibly be brought from other worlds in very rare instances, as the world at this point is WAAY too big (pun intended) to be grasped by anyone trying to portray it and make a clear line between canon or not."


======

The idea of switching over to a mythology had its share of the discussion.


Amaroq: "Adding more lore and mythology such as rumors would fit greatly to the aforementioned idea of having themes and possibilities rather than hard facts and differentiations between canon, majorly accepted fanon and nonaccepted fanon."


======

That's not to say the current model found no traction or support. Some people merely wanted to continue fleshing things out.


Amaroq: "I do not think major changes are required to happen, slight adjustments are welcomed though, especially rgarding the guideline principle I mentioned above, to make it easier to add content to the world, be it stories, pictures, games or wiki articles, so a better consent can be achieved. There are a few things that would be nice to have a rework of, but those are more exceptions rather than the norm"

======

The number of wiki editors was also brought into question.

Amaroq: "I do believe that more editors would lead to more content, but before we can add more editors, we need to be clear that there is a consent about what felarya is, should be and will turn into, should it not stay the same. Before we tackle this issue, we should solve our current problems."


======

Regarding retcons, removals, rescinding:

Amaroq: "Seeing how i myself reworked content that has been kind of abandoned (Inu's) I am obviously biased, and say that it should be possible to do so with underdeveloped content or where content just isnt up to date anymore. Ideally with the consent of the original creator of course, should they still be around. "
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://xxamaroqxx.deviantart.com
Claire
Seasoned adventurer
Seasoned adventurer
avatar

Posts : 157
Join date : 2008-01-31
Location : its a secret!!!

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:02 pm

ravaging vixen wrote:
Dragon...then that requires character rights of the persons character. As said before. If you don't want to lose anyone logically. Then you need to give complete character rights to karbo and work with him on how you want the character portrayed officially. Other wise they become useless filler in the wiki (or anywhere really) as the person who had them before is no longer invested or active in their contribution to felarya. Needs to br given and clean or done away with entirely. Like senchahide was saying and Stabs. Trimming of fat is needed.

I completely agree and this is one of the "major changes" that I was suggesting should take place for any kind of plot development with Felarya and continuation of the Manga. I didn't want to say it cause I thought it would annoy people.

Even with the Felarya manga, an issue did occur with the owner of one of the characters (he went crazy), that just made things awkward and complicated. If that owner wanted his character pulled what would happen to the Manga then?

^ This is just another reason in addition to characters offering little to no plot development and acting like fillers. The characters should be treated like submitting ideas into the wiki, giving up ownership so Karbo can fully implement them into the plot development of Felarya without crap getting pulled, changed, waiting on the characters author to make development, or hindered by drama. Otherwise it becomes a circle jerk.

However I do think there could be some sort of fan page in the wiki similar to the group page on Deviant Art that showcases fan made stuff of characters/work which could be healthy for the community.


Last edited by ravaging vixen on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixing what i said to correct in your quote.)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nyaha
Eternal Optimist
Eternal Optimist
avatar

Posts : 3845
Join date : 2007-12-09
Age : 24
Location : Canada. ^.^ Goooooo Snow!

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:13 pm

Forgive me if I missed something buuuuut....That only looks like our side of the discussion in that there spoiler, Stabs. I don't see the names of anyone who commented on the DA blog. o.o For example, I remember when I read through some of them that Turboman had one or twk really neat ideas that I feel deserve mentioning. As it stands, you really don't seem to have included everybody. Unless you weren't try to yet?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://tanoshiiatsu.deviantart.com/
Stabs
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1821
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 27
Location : The Coil, Miragia

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:58 am

That's true, Nyan. This is only the forum side of things, I'm doing the same simultaneously with the dA side of things. They haven't yet all given me permission to quote them, so I've refrained from showing anything they wrote outside of dA. Also, I'll look into the reframing you suggested.

Your closing remarks will be pointed out in the final version, Amaroq, French, Shady, Seneca, Karbo.



I'm still missing a pass from Krisexy26, Aether, Archmage_Bael, Bluehorizon.

_________________
Fais que ton rêve soit plus long que la nuit.


Last edited by Stabs on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
avatar

Posts : 4034
Join date : 2009-05-05
Age : 29
Location : Shatterock Caldera

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:03 pm

Amaroq wrote:


We'll repeat now what has been said regarding the solution of picking a direction, a tone, a purpose, or a theme.


Amaroq: "What the setting needs first and foremost is a rough Guideline about what the setting should feature at its very core. Not examples like "there are Laser rifles but no nuclear devices" as that makes little sense, but roughly what SPIRIT and THEME the world should have. [...] Felarya needs more precise guidelines, an agenda of expectations so to speak, where people might be clear about what can be found on Felarya innately, and what could only possibly be brought from other worlds in very rare instances, as the world at this point is WAAY too big (pun intended) to be grasped by anyone trying to portray it and make a clear line between canon or not."


This is a very good point here. A little different from what stabs has posted about my comment involving 'realism' but its still relevant.

Though I get we're all consolidating what we've said, but what is the basic point of this? Are we just going to archive it all? What are the plans to happen now that everything is cooling down?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=614917399 Online
Stabs
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1821
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 27
Location : The Coil, Miragia

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:23 am

The point of this is to let the dA folk where do people here stand regarding the issues that were brought up. That'll involve archiving it, of course.

As for the plans, Karbo has agreed to do a few things, as pointed out above.

P.S: Aether, are your quotes ok?

_________________
Fais que ton rêve soit plus long que la nuit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Stabs
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 1821
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 27
Location : The Coil, Miragia

PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:10 pm

Alright, I couldn't reach Aether. I hope nobody thinks any less of me for omitting his part. It's still there in the discussion, though, even if it's been omitted from the abridged version.

_________________
Fais que ton rêve soit plus long que la nuit.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Proceedings of the forum discussion   

Back to top Go down
 
Proceedings of the forum discussion
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» The Code of Conduct for the forum
» British Foreign Office:Timeline-Madeleine McCann Case (Copied From Jill Havern's Forum-Forumotion)
» How Long Has Shout Around The World Been A Forum?
» British and Commonwealth Military Badge Forum
» Tony Bennett gives his advice to admin and this forum.... lol !

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Felarya :: General forums :: General discussion-
Jump to: