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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:58 am

Shady Knight wrote:
†And just call them humans, lower-tiers is just way too bizarre, not to mention utterly out of place in a settlement whose whole gimmick is that everybody is equal.

...How is that a gimmick? Or rather, 'gimmick' makes it sound like its a bad thing.

Shady Knight wrote:

2. Uhh... hate to break it to you, bub, but Kortiki doesn't have an army or some kind of fighting force. †Why would they need one? †Fairies are all they need. †Also, Tonorions don't have hives in the Fairy Kingdom. †They have a known hive in the Forest of Whispers, but that's on the other side of the chasm that separate the kingdom with the rest of the map.

You know, if its not a kingdom, then that means they would need some kind of defensive force of some kind. A kingdom implies it'd be safe (generally) in the given territory, in this case, a rather large swath of land.

This is felarya, there's got to be other dangers in that area besides from fairies. I can imagine how underground creatures could not really migrate easily, since that chasm going around their 'kingdom' would make it difficult for other creatures to cross.


Shady Knight wrote:

3. That would imply that fairies have something resembling politics. †Given how free-spirited they are, the only thing resembling rulership of any kind among their packs is one person keeping everyone else in line. †And before you bring up the Crimson Maidens, they have a completely different culture from other fairies. †They do not represent the average fairy pack. †As for Kortiki, I'd personally say it's the only settlement in the Fairy Kingdom you could describe as a town and where humans are more or less safe. †It's not a capital city, it's just a tight-knit community that happens to include fairies and humans. †Nemyra is pretty much the Queen in name only.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure Karbo has some sort of intention for it to be a loose government. Even if that weren't true, then it should be, since otherwise we'd call into question why we've been calling it the Fairy Kingdom the whole time, and if we never intended it on being a government, then that would just show that we're all a joke, and that for years we've had no idea what we want.
---
Here's the problem. Fairies we have this idea of are supposed to be really playful, loose, open minded, super friendly, super voracious, super dangerous, and yet they also are supposed to be so open minded (or ambitious?) that they dont really have any sort of government.

Yet They are also supposed to just as varied as humans are in personality and race (ie various races of fairies). Yet we ALSO call them the most developed species next to dridders and...uh...what would we call a dozens of smaller races all living together as? How do we refer to the racial entity as a whole of Negavians, Nekomurans, etc?

So we want them to be a civilized, yet we dont want them to be because we feel like that would call into question their open minded innocent nature. Everything, literally everything conflicts with something else. With fairies we seem to want everything, even for them to be fleshed out and a fetish fuel at the same time.
If they are so varies, they will have other fairies out there that probably enjoy swindling people. or who like control over others. we've seen that in mystiniel. some will have darker imperialistic ideas.

Therefore there will always be some fairies that will be okay with harming other fairies, you could come up with a million reasons why, I'm sure, so therefore they need some kind of protection, even from their own people. If there's absolutely no government, yet they have markets, and apparently A LIBRARY (which implies a governmental entity of some kind that would need to manage resources labor and all the other things), then it means, in addition to the parenthesis, a government of some kind.

Now, Kortiki is not going to be center of government. That whole 'kingdom' is huge. Maybe if Kortiki is so different, we should start out with what makes them different, or come up with different ways fairies thrive in groups and communities. There's many things to consider.

----

Now we can have the opportunity to be crazy. Just like stabs.
Fairies like knowledge and arts and stuff. So a library, which is a collection of such, could be more than just a building with books. Though the Fairy library is supposedly famous, as Vivian has referenced books from the fairy kingdom, which are usually never lent out to anyone other than another fairy.

So there's that for an idea. What about government though? I like the idea, sort of that there could be exemplars of specific ideas in fairy culture: creativity, knowledge, generosity, etc, and some fairies can have it as a title. One fairy, could have such a title, like 'Mercy' could have some sort of story, or inter-fairy lore. That there was a fairy who felt mercy people, and through earned respect, started to establish the town of Kortiki. Said fairy could live in the area as a guide or authority figure for the town.

This reminds me of MLP and Diablo. Both have figures that act as some sort of icon (in MLPs case, friendship based ones, in Diablo, virtues of Anu: Valor, Justice, Hope, Faith and Death). Anyway, I could ramble on, but I wont. I need sleep. None of what I said will likely make any sense after I wake up.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:07 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
†And just call them humans, lower-tiers is just way too bizarre, not to mention utterly out of place in a settlement whose whole gimmick is that everybody is equal.

...How is that a gimmick? Or rather, 'gimmick' makes it sound like its a bad thing.

Shady Knight wrote:

2. Uhh... hate to break it to you, bub, but Kortiki doesn't have an army or some kind of fighting force. †Why would they need one? †Fairies are all they need. †Also, Tonorions don't have hives in the Fairy Kingdom. †They have a known hive in the Forest of Whispers, but that's on the other side of the chasm that separate the kingdom with the rest of the map.

You know, if its not a kingdom, then that means they would need some kind of defensive force of some kind. A kingdom implies it'd be safe (generally) in the given territory, in this case, a rather large swath of land.

This is felarya, there's got to be other dangers in that area besides from fairies. I can imagine how underground creatures could not really migrate easily, since that chasm going around their 'kingdom' would make it difficult for other creatures to cross.


Shady Knight wrote:

3. That would imply that fairies have something resembling politics. †Given how free-spirited they are, the only thing resembling rulership of any kind among their packs is one person keeping everyone else in line. †And before you bring up the Crimson Maidens, they have a completely different culture from other fairies. †They do not represent the average fairy pack. †As for Kortiki, I'd personally say it's the only settlement in the Fairy Kingdom you could describe as a town and where humans are more or less safe. †It's not a capital city, it's just a tight-knit community that happens to include fairies and humans. †Nemyra is pretty much the Queen in name only.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure Karbo has some sort of intention for it to be a loose government. Even if that weren't true, then it should be, since otherwise we'd call into question why we've been calling it the Fairy Kingdom the whole time, and if we never intended it on being a government, then that would just show that we're all a joke, and that for years we've had no idea what we want.
---
Here's the problem. Fairies we have this idea of are supposed to be really playful, loose, open minded, super friendly, super voracious, super dangerous, and yet they also are supposed to be so open minded (or ambitious?) that they dont really have any sort of government.

Yet They are also supposed to just as varied as humans are in personality and race (ie various races of fairies). Yet we ALSO call them the most developed species next to dridders and...uh...what would we call a dozens of smaller races all living together as? How do we refer to the racial entity as a whole of Negavians, Nekomurans, etc?

So we want them to be a civilized, yet we dont want them to be because we feel like that would call into question their open minded innocent nature. Everything, literally everything conflicts with something else. With fairies we seem to want everything, even for them to be fleshed out and a fetish fuel at the same time.
If they are so varies, they will have other fairies out there that probably enjoy swindling people. or who like control over others. we've seen that in mystiniel. some will have darker imperialistic ideas.

Therefore there will always be some fairies that will be okay with harming other fairies, you could come up with a million reasons why, I'm sure, so therefore they need some kind of protection, even from their own people. If there's absolutely no government, yet they have markets, and apparently A LIBRARY (which implies a governmental entity of some kind that would need to manage resources labor and all the other things), then it means, in addition to the parenthesis, a government of some kind.

Now, Kortiki is not going to be center of government. That whole 'kingdom' is huge. Maybe if Kortiki is so different, we should start out with what makes them different, or come up with different ways fairies thrive in groups and communities. There's many things to consider.

----

Now we can have the opportunity to be crazy. Just like stabs.
Fairies like knowledge and arts and stuff. So a library, which is a collection of such, could be more than just a building with books. Though the Fairy library is supposedly famous, as Vivian has referenced books from the fairy kingdom, which are usually never lent out to anyone other than another fairy.

So there's that for an idea. What about government though? I like the idea, sort of that there could be exemplars of specific ideas in fairy culture: creativity, knowledge, generosity, etc, and some fairies can have it as a title. One fairy, could have such a title, like 'Mercy' could have some sort of story, or inter-fairy lore. That there was a fairy who felt mercy people, and through earned respect, started to establish the town of Kortiki. Said fairy could live in the area as a guide or authority figure for the town.

This reminds me of MLP and Diablo. Both have figures that act as some sort of icon (in MLPs case, friendship based ones, in Diablo, virtues of Anu: Valor, Justice, Hope, Faith and Death). Anyway, I could ramble on, but I wont. I need sleep. None of what I said will likely make any sense after I wake up.

Okay before I address all the cool stuff that has been proposed here I'm going to pass on a nugget of wisdom somebody once told me: "If your characters a very contradictive, then you're doing something very, very right! Not wrong." See people are very contradictive by nature and thus if one's character is full of them then one is in fact making a more believable character. Now I know we're talking about a race here not a character, but actually the same principles can apply to a race no?

Next I never thought about underground foes, sides Tonorions, as threats to the Kingdom. It opens a whole new realm of intrigue there and I think we oughta to build a sub level onto the Fairy Kingdom's forests! Also that makes me think we oughta think of an ACTUAL NAME for those woods/forests. One of the last areas in "Main Felarya" that needs "Working Name" removed yes?

Also I don't know who but somebody brought up support for my fairy milita/fairy knights. @-@ Can't find them in all this text (Where's my Stabs App to sort though it all? lol ) but thanks for that. I say we should collaborate and at least try to structure it. ^_^ Note me.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Wow! That was some discussion! Smile You guys really seem to have it on those aspects, can I try history myself?

======

Personally, I believe we could have some cool stuff if we make it so that Muroyo Library is very, very old. Like, from before the Great Treaty fell, and contains plenty of books that were looted off elves. And right now, it's only barely useable, because some of those books were cursed... and elven curses got a bit worse once the treaty fell. Razz

Meanwhile, Kortiki proper would have a few smaller libraries/used bookstores/collections, but nothing as amazing as Muroyo, which is currently... only sporadically used by adventuring (adventurous?) fairies.

Speaking of Kortiki, I've thought of a way it could've formed. You know, when a fairy has a friend, and another fairy has a friend too, and these two friends love each other very much, and then there's a third friend on the way, and suddenly it turned out a lot other people have friends too, and then it becomes easier to keep track of which ones are someone's friends with who if they're all in the same place?

As for fairy-aided spell learning, why not do it the other way around? Why not instead of having humans who are very good at spellcasting, we have foppish fey who don't spend enough time outdoors because they're too busy polishing their monocles and sipping their shrunken tea? It sounds funnier to think humans are a bad influence on fey rather than fey bringing humans up, though they are never completely... civilized, for lack of a better term.

======

As for eatin' people, I imagine it'd be kind of like touching politics and religion in Kortiki. You're bound to hit a passionate answer one way or the other, and yeah, some annoying people might NEED you to listen to their (inevitably disturbing) POV about the right to exercise their natural capabilities in defense of life, property and dignity/in being guaranteed the exercise of their freedoms without fearing for their lives... and plenty of people will generally be on the fence though more willing to vore than they themselves knew. But all in all, it takes a lot of screwing up before you actually get vored.

I wonder if the higher density of fairies might mean fairies are nommed by other fairies more often? More opportunities †If so, wild fairies must find this rather... disturbing, hm. Here's another idea. What if Kortiki is no less alien to fairies than it is to us? What if most fairies gotta compromise as much as the humans to live in this town, and while they can intelectually grasp the concept, they try not to stay any longer than they have to?

Here's another idea on that. What if Kortiki's that size because that's the size cap for a town that's integrated with fairies? Maybe fairies can only attain that much density before they start stepping on each other's toes at whatever size, and Kortiki is strained to the point that it has had to shed some excess population, creating satellite towns a fair distance away, all of which have decided to stay WAY below that size, but which also results in other towns being relatively vulnerable?

Yet another idea. What if fairies in the fairy kingdom aren't just densely populated, but some are actually bad, even to other fairies? The bandits in the fairy kingdom are also fairies who are downright mean, rather hostile to the integration of other humanoids, and unobserving of norms of private property! How about that, would make for a hell of a twist! XD

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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:27 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:

Okay before I address all the cool stuff that has been proposed here I'm going to pass on a nugget of wisdom somebody once told me: "If your characters a very contradictive, then you're doing something very, very right! Not wrong." See people are very contradictive by nature and thus if one's character is full of them then one is in fact making a more believable character. Now I know we're talking about a race here not a character, but actually the same principles can apply to a race no?

No, its very very wrong. Its preventing development. We cant develop kortiki too well because we dont know anything about fairy society at all.

Its nice to know that Muroyo could be very ancient. Cool. Though I heavily disagree with just Kotiki starting up because a couple fairies wanted to live together in some place. Because as I understand it the way people talk about how they live, is that they all live away from each other in hidden ways, but some settlements are together, yet we have no idea how that works out. On the other hand, saying "oh its just another whimsical get together by fairies!"

- I dont like that at all because it means we're using the fact that we make fairies whimsical as a reason to just handwave how everything started. Its exactly Why Shady_Knight has a legitimate problem with "wizards did it" as an excuse for everything, but in this case its "its fairies its okay". We cant do that and seriously call it development.

Fairyland has many castles and ancient buildings, and we're chalking it up to whims. You cant gather resources and organize people to build such a monstrously intricate building on a whim.. Am I making myself clear here?

Spoiler:
 

We need actual, concrete, basis on how fairy society works. I posted a huge suggestion on Their religion, which was open ended and druidic, but even that was critized, because I felt like it wasn't open ended enough. Its a religion, fairies cant have religions, but they need to have one if they are to be fleshed out. Sorry, I'm getting all worked up now, because I'm tired of all this back and forth nonsense about fairies. The only thing we seem to canonize with them are stories and ancient legends because those dont have a great effect on their societal structure. Which is why stabs' posts about fairy logic and stories seem to be the only thing so far we have for legitimate development.

Its time to make a decision, people.

Also if you want to make it boring and common, here: Kortiki is near a reliable water source. Fairies set up there and started creating homes and a small hamlet, because fairies enjoy being around each other. Some fairies brought their friends, those friends became friends and built their own houses, leading to actual buildings, which caused fairy buildings and other buildings to be all together in a sort of melting pot of each style of building. Then over the years it grew naturally.

But that's boring. Razz
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PostSubject: Kortiky, the oldest town in Felarya?   Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:47 pm

Why not this? Kortiky is actually oldest town still existing, build as an Even enclave that stood faithful to the old relations with Fairies when Fairies and Elves fell out? The humans and Nekos being save there could be because Fairies don't see difference between Elfs and other humanoid races.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:58 pm

That's a tempting one, Arnost, but there's a couple things I'd like to point.

First of all, it's the fairies that decided the treaty was void, not the elves: the enclave could stay faithful, but that doesn't mean the fairies will. Second of all, elves do see the differences between nekos, humans, and themselves, and they don't just overlook those.

It could be explained that the fairies of Kortiki for some reason (friendship?) didn't immediately turn on the elves at the first opportunity. That'd work for me, at least. You'd just need a reason for the elves not to throw a hissy fit over lesser races settling in with them (open minded elves, for instance).

Yours is a pretty good idea, actually, if you can fix those two kinks.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:32 am

It's nice to see to see the discussion advancing so well Smile

We are expanding into fairy society as a whole which is interesting. I'm all for clarifying things as well here. †

However I think it's important to keep in mind that, in the end, fairies are not humans. They think differently and what apply to our human societies won't necessarily apply to them.
And one of these point would be politics and government. †When I think hard about this one, I just can't represent myself fairies with a regular, organized governing body. Well unless we speaks of the Crimson maiden, but it's an unique case. Over time their society have changed into something radically different, highly militaristic and disciplined that looks very alien to every others fairies.

As I see it, fairies are capable of functioning largely without actual leaders. In certain ways, they are more open-minded than humans indeed. They are much less individualistic and for a fairy, her friends are very important. The typical fairy have many friends among others fairies. So they are less about seeking personal gains for them and a small circle of relatives around them. Instead, their circle is much larger and extend to the whole community at large.
Think of a small village tight-knit mentality where everyone know each others and keep everyone's back, but extended to a larger community. So in that particular area, yes they are more open-minded than humans.
Governing among fairies in general would be very informal. I can see the community having influential figures of sort. Temi could be a good example of that. Those figures are widely seen as wise and reliable by others fairies who often come to them to seek advice. and so they are well listened to but they are not governing per say, not in the sense we understand it in our world. †

Quote :

Fairies wouldn't really have a government. The humans? They certainly would, even if its just a mayor. I could actually see a sort of tribal-esque leader for the fairies and possibly an elected leader for the non-fairies who work together to keep things running semi-smoothly. Though I would suspect that the fairy leader would be a lot less worried about things then the non-fairy. Kortiki would need some kind of government to help run it since it is a multi-species village.

That's a good point. yes I imagine the fact there is multiple species means Kortiki would be run in a special way with representatives. Maybe a fairy sage of sort and a mayor for the other races. Guards are also a thing I agree would be pertinent here. Not so much for actually keeping order, than for having humans residents feel safe.

Quote :
Also thank you for addressing my concerns, Karbo. In truth, I think I was focusing a little too much on the negative when I wrote my first reply, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing these negative points toned down in the article itself, either. Probably best to get some more opinions on that particular aspect.

No problem ^^ and this thread is really about that exactly. We want to make things much clearer so that anyone reading the article on the wiki get a good sense of how Kortiki works, what it is and what it isn't.

Quote :
That's already addressed. †Or, well, it would be if Karbo actually wrote down important details in the site that's supposed to be a guidebook to the setting.
Hem thank you for the reminder, I didn't heard you the previous ten times >> Well I'm waiting to see the thread develop further and to see what issues we raise and resolve and then I'll start to write once we have a satisfying picture. This thread is meant as a way to tackle every important issues and to hand-wave a minimum of things.

Quote :

you cant 'whimsically' build a massive ancient library, or that many books, or nemyra's castle. You cant handwaive it either. Oh, and that great treaty with the elves? The elves wouldn't need that treaty if Fairies didn't have a collective society. THe ancient elves were very powerful. I dont think a spirit bridge and a bottomless cavern is enough to stop an empire that spanned as far as theirs. Especially given how loose we've portrayed their society so far. I'm not saying that directly relates to Kortiki's development, but if we have insight on fairy's society structure, then we can figure out how Kortiki could have started.

I kind of disagree with you here. As I see it, Fairies actually can build things on a whim. They are able to accomplish remarkable things very fast when they are motivated and enthusiastic about it ( and of course, the fact they can manipulate size helps a lot as well ) This is one of their big strength; Fairies with a big idea in mind can be a formidable force. The drawback of that is most fairies are not very patient and less prone to sustained efforts over a long period of time, to trial and errors, and can become bored of repetition rather quickly. This is why scientific fairies are rare†and one of the reason why the fairy civilization remains rather primitive and is unlikely to advance any time soon.
In the case of Muroyo, yes it was built by fairies. Nemyra's castle on the other hand is her creation alone. In the case of the elven empire though, I think the treaty was concluded mostly because elves had little interest about trying to invade the Fairy kingdom. Some of their military leaders certainly thought about it, maybe even made some plans but in the end that sound an insanely difficult thing to accomplish. You have a large chasm surrounding the region, with only bridges to reach it, the defenders would be numerous, able to fly freely, to change size at will and to launch magic at the attackers etc.. †That would be like trying to besiege an enormous castle when the defenders have a formidable air force an you don't.

You also raised the idea of communication across the kingdom. I think Dryads can be a good way around that. I can imagine a couple of them in "strategic" places, with their spot becoming gathering point of sort for fairies ^^

Quote :

I wonder if the higher density of fairies might mean fairies are nommed by other fairies more often? More opportunities †If so, wild fairies must find this rather... disturbing, hm. Here's another idea. What if Kortiki is no less alien to fairies than it is to us? What if most fairies gotta compromise as much as the humans to live in this town, and while they can intelectually grasp the concept, they try not to stay any longer than they have to?

Oh good point here. Maybe it's the case Kortiki is a weird place for everyone XP Humans have to be open-minded about fairies to be able to live there and tolerate their pesky antics, but maybe fairies have to be just as open-minded in order to adapt living side by side to humans and their strange materialistic mentality.
One of the big point of Kortiki that I didn't really thought about is how the city came to be and where that unwritten "rule" come from. I'm not sure it's a question that necessarily needs an answer though.

Also I'm wondering if we should have a portal in Kortiki that leads to the outside, in the forest of whisper for example. But a hidden one and guarded by a fairy living there to guarantee safe passage ? ( and to ward off intruders and suspicious people. With her sending them to her own" fairy kingdom" if they don't know the password, something like that ^^ )

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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:12 pm

Karbo wrote:
Also I'm wondering if we should have a portal in Kortiki that leads to the outside, in the forest of whisper for example. But a hidden one and guarded by a fairy living there to guarantee safe passage ? ( and to ward off intruders and suspicious people. With her sending them to her own" fairy kingdom" if they don't know the password, something like that ^^ )

I can certainly get behind that idea. Maybe have a couple of Canopy Fairies that guard and maintain the portal. They switch out taking care of it every so often so that they don't get bored with the job. Canopy Fairies would be perfectly suited for taking care of a hidden portal since their entire shtick is dimensional and teleportational magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:53 pm

I do like the portal idea. It makes sense in a way, giving the peaceful residents of Kortiki, especially the non-fairy ones, means of travel without needing to worry about hiking back and forth through the Fairy Kingdom. And it can be a source of conflict, necessitating the presence of guards in town, should anything hostile manage itself through the portal. Actually, on the note of guards, given what you've been stating about "Typical" fairies, what about, instead of dedicated guards patrolling the town, there was a sort of unofficial 'militia' of people who just drop whatever they're doing whenever danger happens and come together to defend the place? I feel like that'd fit your definition of fairies a lot better.


You know what? Enough of typical fairies. I think we need to devote more thinking power to the atypical. We know that typical fairies are friend-oriented, playful, disorganized, impulsive, close to nature and magic, and whatever else. But what about the atypical fairy? A fairy who shuns people, even if she secretly desires companionship, or a fairy who, as you mentioned in your post, Karbo, is scientifically-minded? What about a fairy who hates all the hullabaloo that other fairies make and just wants to be left alone to read, or an uptight fairy who expects others to follow her rules (ie a teacher or owner of some establishment)? What about fairies who disregard Kortiki's unwritten rule or disagree with it, either actively or passively, aggressively or discreetly? What about a fairy who actually has a human way of thinking? I would disagree with the idea that these kinds of characters wouldn't fit as fairies if it was suggested. We can't have every fairy being the same any more than we can have every fairy being so different that there's no sense of what they're like as a whole. Even humanity has a base line of thinking that applies to most people in the world, yet at the same time, there's not just one template of what humans are like. I just feel like there's too much talk of the "typical". Think about it this way: would a typical fairy just decide to make a village where different races could coexist in the middle of territory where they normally wouldn't be able to? Would a typical fairy be able to run a library, or a shop, or be a teacher? Would a typical fairy be able to be one of these "guards" you spoke of? I think the answer to at least two of these questions is "no", and because of that, I think we need to put more emphasis on the atypical than we have been. Espcially considering the atypical nature of the idea we're discussing.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:48 am

Karbo wrote:

Quote :

you cant 'whimsically' build a massive ancient library, or that many books, or nemyra's castle. You cant handwaive it either. Oh, and that great treaty with the elves? The elves wouldn't need that treaty if Fairies didn't have a collective society. THe ancient elves were very powerful. I dont think a spirit bridge and a bottomless cavern is enough to stop an empire that spanned as far as theirs. Especially given how loose we've portrayed their society so far. I'm not saying that directly relates to Kortiki's development, but if we have insight on fairy's society structure, then we can figure out how Kortiki could have started.

I kind of disagree with you here. As I see it, Fairies actually can build things on a whim. They are able to accomplish remarkable things very fast when they are motivated and enthusiastic about it ( and of course, the fact they can manipulate size helps a lot as well ) This is one of their big strength; Fairies with a big idea in mind can be a formidable force. The drawback of that is most fairies are not very patient and less prone to sustained efforts over a long period of time, to trial and errors, and can become bored of repetition rather quickly. This is why scientific fairies are rare†and one of the reason why the fairy civilization remains rather primitive and is unlikely to advance any time soon.
In the case of Muroyo, yes it was built by fairies. Nemyra's castle on the other hand is her creation alone. In the case of the elven empire though, I think the treaty was concluded mostly because elves had little interest about trying to invade the Fairy kingdom. Some of their military leaders certainly thought about it, maybe even made some plans but in the end that sound an insanely difficult thing to accomplish. You have a large chasm surrounding the region, with only bridges to reach it, the defenders would be numerous, able to fly freely, to change size at will and to launch magic at the attackers etc.. †That would be like trying to besiege an enormous castle when the defenders have a formidable air force an you don't.

You also raised the idea of communication across the kingdom. I think Dryads can be a good way around that. I can imagine a couple of them in "strategic" places, with their spot becoming gathering point of sort for fairies ^^

Comment and Suggestions. Here goes. Hope I'm not being too harsh!

Well honestly that's not the way I imagine organization to work regardless of what psyche the species has. Oh well.

Still, my biggest fear here, is that we're going to use Nemyra as a way to hand waive everything, then call it development, because we just developed more of what Nemyra can do, instead of how fairy society functions.

You did mention Dryads for communication, which will further cement the relationship between Dryads and Fairies. Though its definitely a start here. Communication is important for sure. I like this.

I feel like you want a society, and also want them to be very primitive. Its just...beyond common bed time stories and songs, I feel like it'd be hard to have things like celebration days, or how fairies work socially, like healers, elders, knowledge keepers, mystics, how individual fairies help or function as a particular role in their villages, how fairy villages thrive, what they do for each other. common practices, works of art, fairies who make books, jewlery, pendants, etc. Where they get their resources from to make all these things, how those places work.

How does a fairy mining town work? Or a fairy lumber harvesting operation work? Do they even have that, or some substitution, if so, how do they make tools to gather resources to make that precious fairy necklace that Lea has (was it fairy in origin? I cant remember, actually. Shoddy memory, should go back and read some stuff) still, that sort of thing. These parts of fairy society that do these things take repetition and hard work, which you mentioned can bore a fairy quite easily. Which makes development sort of a problem, and makes me wonder how they built Muroyo and other places.

Maybe I'm thinking too specifically, and they just build things things, and have a whole ton of tools and structures for various purposes, largely abandoned for many many years until they have need of them again? That would seem silly though, as unless they're used commonly and practiced with, the art from master to apprentice wouldn't work. Unless they use another system I cannot think of?

I enjoy the idea of fairies being whimsical and carefree, innocent and playful, all that stuff. I really like that, it makes them really super cute. I'd love a Melany plushie. (I'm being serious here.)

I still would suggest instead of their whole entire race being more oriented toward a ridiculous level of being care free, that instead they share these common psychological traits, but aside from that are rather varied. Repetitious tasks wouldn't bore them, because in a world like Felarya, their care free attitude is challenged by nature and the need to survive as a species. So a surprising number of fairies are willing to subject themselves to hard work and repetitive tasks for the betterment of their people.

or that they have all these tools, but since fairies take about 45 years to grow up, some fairies who show attributes in a particular area are more prone to spend a few decades (like 20-40 years typically ) practicing a craft, making necklaces, pendances, enchanted items, staves, books.

Or Mara. Mara loves to paint, and tries to tell her stories through them. As a writer I just haven't gotten around to showing that a whole lot yet (because I've been so overloaded trying to catch up these last couple years).

In Temi's case, she is very diligent and does repetitive work healing fairies and taking care of injured ones. She does it because it makes fairies and her friends better, prevents them from Dying, and this serves as a great reward for her. So she researches, and I'll bet knows how to heal fairies and rescue them from otherwise inescapable situations. She could serve as a teacher to show younglings how to take care of wounds, themselves, and others, just as another fairy might be a blacksmith, showing all those other guy fairies out there how to make a beautiful enchanted necklace for the girl they have a crush on (a guy making jewlery?! well, you did say they're open minded...). I'm willing to bet Male fairies have a different psyche than girl fairies, then again, we cant all say they think this way, when they're supposed to be a varied, diverse people.

Its just...its very awkward talking about ways that a fairy would need to WORK to help their society, when we'd rather just envision them flying around freely, having fun all day in a dangerous deadly environment, somehow lending credence to the idea that makes them even more deadly and dangerous THAN the environment...
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:19 am

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how do they make tools to gather resources to make that precious fairy necklace that Lea has
Transmutation and alchemy, son! Also, pretty sure the necklace was an artifact Subby found during a dungeon crawl.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:28 am

Sorry for raising this thread from the almost dead, also for double posting, but since some development is made to Kortiki in the wiki, I figured I should pitch in my opinions for now. I think the trades with Kortiki should be reworked. More specifically, the fact that fairies are fond of books. I find it hard to believe that Negavians as a whole know of their affinity for books and literature. For one thing, that sounds like one big weakness to exploit, which makes encounters with fairies far less dangerous than they should be. I think this secret weakness should be known only to a select few, mostly people who trade with Kortiki, the reasoning being that it's such a silly and even paradoxical weakness on the surface that most people don't even believe it. For that matter, I think the existence of Kortiki should be relatively unknown for the majority of Negavians, again except for those who do trade and the Magiocrats since they apparently know all that happens in the city. The idea of fairies and humans coexisting I think should be a mostly alien concept in Negav, what with longstanding prejudice and distrust toward the predatory non-human species, that the idea of such a town is at best, and pun completely intended, a ridiculous fairy tale.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:33 am

Archmage_Bael:

Oh no I'm really going to avoid using Nemyra as a handwave here.

Quote :
I still would suggest instead of their whole entire race being more oriented toward a ridiculous level of being care free, that instead they share these common psychological traits, but aside from that are rather varied. Repetitious tasks wouldn't bore them, because in a world like Felarya, their care free attitude is challenged by nature and the need to survive as a species. So a surprising number of fairies are willing to subject themselves to hard work and repetitive tasks for the betterment of their people.


Alright. You're right, maybe what I said about them getting bored easily of repetitive tasks is too restrictive indeed.

But i think it's important to understand that even if we leave the fairies alone in a completely optimal and friendly environment during centuries and watch them evolve, their societies would still looks very different than ours in the end.
For instance I don't really see something like a mining town existing.
But thinking about it, on the other hand, maybe the opposite : having fairies being faced by a very serious and tangible threat for their existence during a prolonged time would change their society rapidly and radically and make it evolve to something more organized and more efficient.

Also some people on this thread says Muroyo could be an ancient structure actually not built by fairies. I imagine it could be the case indeed. it's interesting and could explain why the place is so dangerous ^^
But if it's not, I don't really see how it would be a problem for fairies to have built it. After all they can change their size. imagine just how much that make possible in term of realization !

Shady Knight :

Well the people who are aware of their fondness for books are essentially the traders indeed. The problem you have is more about the form than the content right ? With the article making it not clear enough the trade is secret as well as the existence of Kortiki itself ?

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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:04 am

It's more so the wording that bugs me, yes. When it says "As for Negavians, they know how fond of books fairies are and will mostly trade them..." it sounds like it's saying that the fact that fairies love books is common knowledge among all the people living in Negav, not just traders. I'll admit, part of it is also my own bias. I like to imagine that humans see the Fairy Kingdom as a No Man's Land, a place where one is certain to never return from because of all the fairies living there, and as a result, they think that a town inhabited by fairies, humans, elves and whatnot coexisting together makes no sense, at least from their perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:33 pm

Here is how the article looks now :

Kortiki is a town situated deep in the Fairy kingdom. It's large by fairy standards and represents a rare exception in Felarya. Indeed, for some mysterious reason, the place was declared neutral ground long ago and thus, even though it's a fairy town, it's a relatively safe place for a human to visit or live in. Theories abound on the reasons for this, but when you ask a fairy, all you will get in reply is that eating a guest is "rude and not nice at all!" You could still end up in the belly of a fairy if you do something very stupid though, such as committing a crime or stealing the wares of a merchant for example. But as long as you don't act really foolishly, the risk of being eaten is very low. Some humans and nekos have been living in this safe haven for dozens of years without any problem.

The town is a peaceful, colorful, noisy, and beautiful place. Nature is everywhere with some houses built directly inside hollow trees and lianas and vines creeping their way inside. Many fairies seem fascinated by human architecture and some have tried to build vague replicas of the houses the human inhabitants of Kortiki have built for themselves. Some fairies take an even easier route and decide to elect permanent residence inside a human's house, often much to the dismay of the owner. If a fairy moves into your home, you can expect things to get lively and "fun" very fast! Some fairies have taken a liking to domestic appliances, and unaware of (or disregarding) their original purpose, prefer to live inside chests of drawers, clocks, or even pianos.

The Kortikian culture is an odd and unique blending of the original fairy culture and of that brought by humans over the years. Artists of all sorts are highly regarded in Kortiki and the city is full of painters, poets, and musicians. On some rare occasions, rosic nekos coming from the other side of the continent make their way here as well. Kortiki is also a great place to visit if you seek old, rare books as fairies are fond of reading and the town possesses several libraries.

Living among fairies

For a human, neko, or elf, living right in the midst of fairies is a strange and sometimes unnerving experience. One have to be pretty open-minded and patient for sure, and holding a certain fondness or fascination for fairies in the first place will also help you to not turn crazy. Fairies have very little sense of privacy and won't hesitate to invade your home and play pranks. You also can't completely shake the feeling that those friendly creatures remain fearsome predators and that, should you have met them first in different circumstances in the wild, many of them would have seen little wrong in shrinking you and happily gobbling you down as a snack. It's interesting to note that on the fairy side, some of them find it highly difficult to live alongside humans on a daily basis as well. They find their materialism hard to cope with, making them eager to spend more time away in the forest than in the town in some instances.

On the bright side, fairies treat their "guests" well and they are probably the best revelers in all Felarya. A big fairy party is something you'll never forget! Overall, living among fairies makes for a relatively good life and most humans inhabitants seem content with their condition. Unions between humans and fairies are not uncommon either. Moreover, after years of spending time with them, knowledge of how their mind work, their quirks and little details are second nature to humans from Kortiki. Thus, they would be much less helpless when encountering a fairy in the middle of the jungle, than say a Negavian, as they naturally interact better with them. Even if far away from Kortiki or the Fairy kingdom, they would have a real chance at talking their way out of trouble and even get the fairy to help them.

That relation is mutually beneficial. Non-fairy inhabitants live in safety, while they can help fairies solve some of their problems. For example, a group of humans would have no trouble whatsoever in clearing a bush of feyweed, while fairies would be likely to suffer casualties. It's interesting to note that fairies don't really see sizes as relevant, so they will deal with tinies in Kortiki just as they do with its humans inhabitants. If, for whatever reasons, a human wishes to leave Kortiki, they are free to do so, and to use a portal leading to central Felarya in the Forest of whispers. If they had friend among fairies, they could easily ask to be escorted to safety.

Access

Reaching Kortiki is very difficult and perilous, as it is situated deep in the core of the kingdom. You have little hope of making it there through normal means if you don't know a fairy who can transport you there. There is however a portal leading directly to it in the Forest of whispers, situated west of the Lake of illusions. It's well hidden though and a canopy fairy dwells on top of it, just next to a Dryad. Their job is to guard the passage and eat any trespasser who doesn't know the password. The fairy usually lay some belly traps just before the gate, while the dryad can communicate with another dryad in Kortiki so they are warned when people are expected through and the traps can be deactivated. They can also quickly close the portal if necessary.

Trade

Kortiki is little known across Felarya. In many places, the mere notion of a city where fairies and humans live together in harmony, would be ridiculous and quickly dismissed as mere tales. However Kortiki do engage in trade with a few other settlements, and this includes Negav. Of course trade with Negav is very low-key and discrete as Negavian authorities would look very dimly on any form of contact with a fairy town, at last officially. However, a quiet rumor among traders suspects that some of the magiocrats do know of these activities, and that they turn a blind eye to it. After all, Kortiki offers a wide variety of interesting commodities, such as rare plants grown only in the fairy kingdom with a variety of uses from alchemy, potion crafting, or even just for rare and exotic dishes. It largely remains a secret though. As for the Negavian traders, they know how fond of books fairies are and will mostly trade them, along with various intriguing trinkets.

Thus, every now and then a caravan from Kortiki will quietly settle in the jungle relatively near Negav. From there the Kortiki traders will meet with their contact in the city and invite them to the caravan to conduct the trade, usually as a barter, under the protection of several giant-sized fairies who are here to prevent any outside interference. The goods are then transported back to Kortiki, with the help of those fairies.

Kortiki trade mainly in plants, seeds, dyes, † (items to be added )

Organization

The city is headed by a sage on the fairy side. She acts as a mayor of sorts, but her role is rather informal. She gives her opinion on various matters and the fairies usually follow her guidance. Disagreements are handled like fairies do : by an open and frank discussion. Non-fae species are represented by an elected leader, most of the time human as they are the most numerous in the city after fairies. The two work together to keep things running smoothly.

Kortiki have a few apparent guards who patrol the place rather nonchalantly, mostly for dissuasion and to give a sense of security to the non-fairy inhabitants. Their presence is largely symbolic though. Should the necessity arise, the real defense of Kortiki is handled by a group of volunteers of all species who are well trained and would instantly drop whatever they are doing to come together and defend the place.

Technology in Kortiki is low level and the magic ability among humans from Kortiki is more prevalent than in most others places. Firstly because the Fairy kingdom is a region highly saturated in magic in general but also because using magic is seen as common practice; so it encourages people more to develop it themselves. The close relationship with fairies can also result in hybrids who are natural magic users.

http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kortiki


What do you think ? ^^ And of course, more can be added to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:37 pm

It looks nice, but I think it could elaborate a bit more on their food culture. For instance, do Kortikians have farms? Do they primarily hunt for their meat? How do fairies help with that? Do they usually go see a Dryad or two who give them some kind of special fruit or herb? What besides fruits and nuts form the staple of their diet?
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:44 pm

Question, do they have library systems? Or plumbing?
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:08 pm

I... they most definitely have libraries.

Plumbing is very unlikely. Plumbing is the kind of thing that you need to really build a city with a specific plan to have, and I don't really imagine Kortiki as a settlement that was built with that kind of planning. I doubt they even have streets, as we would envision them: I picture Kortiki as looking a lot more like an Amish town than anything else. You have one or two roads that are just dirt paths that people walk along, and buildings are just built wherever the people decide they're needed. It would have a very freeform and bare-bones infrastructure, in contrast to the more organised and rigid setup of Negav.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about Kortiki   Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:50 pm

I like the layout of the new article cause it didn't throw out much and added to allot of areas lacking like defense, trade and even the acess column helps illuminate how to get to Kortriki without facing milions of blood thirsty little flying sociopaths at once. XD I especially like the addition of a guardian Fairy and Dryad with a password and bellytraps layed all around the entrance to the village's portal. Also THANK YOU for finally illustrating the fairies have a, loose, militia! ^-^ I can finally now a fairy gaurdsmen/women or two for some RPs and stories. XD Always wanted some.

Finally the dual "leadership" of Kortriki is most intriguing and a fairy sage sounds like they'd be somebody worth meeting.
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