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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:48 am

tkh, are you a villain from Captain Planet? XD

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:14 am

Just dropping in to apologize for my behavior in my last post. I get worked up too easily and I'm an overly proud, stubborn prick. I guess some of the items suggested could be available at the Adventurer's Guild, though I don't imagine they would be available in large quantities, nor be very affordable. Also, about the poison, I think Malahite said it already, but when you think about it, it would probably be outlawed because there are other things it can be used on beside giants, like say, the nobility.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:49 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Just dropping in to apologize for my behavior in my last post. †I get worked up too easily and I'm an overly proud, stubborn prick. †I guess some of the items suggested could be available at the Adventurer's Guild, though I don't imagine they would be available in large quantities, nor be very affordable. †Also, about the poison, I think Malahite said it already, but when you think about it, it would probably be outlawed because there are other things it can be used on beside giants, like say, the nobility.

It's alright man, thank you for apologizing.
And yeah, it would likely be outlawed - so merchants looking to sell their ill ilk would likely set up shop in the vast shanty and criminal labyrinth that is the Pit, or lower tier shops with corrupt cops serving the neighborhood. THey may also sell it under the counter at say, the Hero's tavern. But yes, it would likely be a lucrative business - hated by the nobles of course, but those who survive can price the poisons reasonably for a nice profit, and high demand for the effectiveness of it (with, of course, the right people being informed of exacts. Gotta keep things clandestine.)
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:17 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:
tkh1304 wrote:
I wonder if Felaryan native creatures would handle well against environmental pollution. If regardless of environmental side effects, than prey-sized people can try to poison water, plants and animals around where a predator lives to make her sick and wear her down.

Put a barrel of radioactive/industrial waste at the upstream of a spring, for example.

You'd do well in a ClichÔŅĹ human military, TK. Destroy the monsters at the expense of allies. Polluting the world you're living in not to mention killing the possible friendly Human sized Geridis, Mermaids and numerous other who don't live in Negav and thus must get their water from sources like say Myriad or one of the minor rivers that criss cross Felarya. Or what about Dimensional shift? If it can occur on land then it should theoretically be able to occur in liquid too. Or the rumor that one of these rivers mysteriously can take you to other unconnected ones and the oceans?

What if I dont care?  Let say I have a grudge against preds in an extremele way,  and i may try to kill her regardless of consequences.  

But anyway,  since radioactive or polluting attacks would effectively ruin this beautiful world, unless Felarya can miraculously purge such pollution on its own, like how it prevents necromancy to avoid people amassing army of dead,  i guess i'll put polluting attack aside.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:47 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, about the poison, I think Malahite said it already, but when you think about it, it would probably be outlawed because there are other things it can be used on beside giants, like say, the nobility.
It's not even a nobility thing.

Let's say that, at their mass, a Giant Predator takes approximately (and this is being extremely generous for the hunters) x100 times the poison it takes to kill a human in a reasonable time frame, in a single application and within short order (basically, what might kill a human in a day to kill a Giant Predator within an hour). If that someone bought enough poison to kill a Giant Predator, they also - potentially - just bought the poison to kill a hundred random civilians (in addition to a wide-spread terror campaign as people try to figure out why a whole block just up and dropped dead). Same basic principle goes for a chemical compound like a nerve gas being applied in sufficient quantities to drop a Giant Predator.

And if we're talking about the sort of "hunter" looking to (supposedly) bag multiple targets, with spares in case the first failÖ

Think of it not as a N.B.C. materials, but stuff to make explosives for a second. If some non-military organization was going around buying enough boom to theoretically level a city block, people are going to be concerned.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:32 pm

Malahite wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
Also, about the poison, I think Malahite said it already, but when you think about it, it would probably be outlawed because there are other things it can be used on beside giants, like say, the nobility.
It's not even a nobility thing.

Let's say that, at their mass, a Giant Predator takes approximately (and this is being extremely generous for the hunters) x100 times the poison it takes to kill a human in a reasonable time frame, in a single application and within short order (basically, what might kill a human in a day to kill a Giant Predator within an hour). If that someone bought enough poison to kill a Giant Predator, they also - potentially - just bought the poison to kill a hundred random civilians (in addition to a wide-spread terror campaign as people try to figure out why a whole block just up and dropped dead). Same basic principle goes for a chemical compound like a nerve gas being applied in sufficient quantities to drop a Giant Predator.

And if we're talking about the sort of "hunter" looking to (supposedly) bag multiple targets, with spares in case the first failÖ

Think of it not as a N.B.C. materials, but stuff to make explosives for a second. If some non-military organization was going around buying enough boom to theoretically level a city block, people are going to be concerned.


Use the same tactics actual mass killers would use, slowly stockpile over a few months? I'd imagine the sheer amount of pop. would mean that hundreds of miniscule purchases would be washed away. Plus, Negav doesn't' seem too secure in terms of bureaucracy in the lower tier, so... Yeah.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:19 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, about the poison, I think Malahite said it already, but when you think about it, it would probably be outlawed because there are other things it can be used on beside giants, like say, the nobility.

That's a point,

I mean, what seems more likely, someone with tones of poison and gas wanting to screw about in the wilderness for months downing the large wildlife for petty gains, or simply dropping the load into the higher tier, slipping a gas mask on do a raid on the Magiocrat's Ascarlin bank deposits and become insanely rich in one day?

I don't think gas would be applicable or possible on gaints unless your in the military. But I've always seen smaller targets as a possiblity as those would require miminal dosages, like caching faries unaware with gas bombs when they are currently small sized, though a great deal of luck would be involved there.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:52 am

dont you think we should outsource the poison thing into its own topic?



Besides, I am with those who say, the black market allows for everything in negav and NO ONE can prevent you from mixing your own little poisons / going out and gather it in the nature. Sure, you can restrict it for the common person, but its not like a monster hunter would limit themselves because some nobleman is fearing to get themselves killed. Theres enough magic around to kill anyone if someone wants and Negav has enough assassins to do the job, so... Yeah, you cant prevent people from getting poison, only make it harder for those without connections. Its the same as with guns in RL-. Those who really WANT guns and kill someone with it, will get them somehow - its just harder.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:07 am

Examples for pretty deadly Fluids? Here they come:

Clostridium Botulinum (about 7 ccm could kill anyone on Earth)

Ricin (ask the KGB, how to use it properly - or me Cool )

The Sea Wasp Poison

Cyanide

The Sea Cone Poison

The Jiroquanji Poison

From these six nasty Fluids You really need little Doses for really huge Effects - which will occur on the Spot.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:24 am

Stabs wrote:
Lockheed X-17, the question isn't whether you can use something, the question is whether it fits the tone envisioned to the best of our criteria.

(P.S: The answer to your question is yes †pale †)

So if it could, how do we prevent it the first place?
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:17 pm

The easy answer, X, is that you don't. If people feel like using nukes, let them.

It doesn't necessarily mean the story will be a hot steaming mess, and even if it did, bad fanfic isn't the end of the world. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:31 pm

Stabs wrote:
bad fanfic isn't the end of the world. Wink

Then you, sir, have clearly been reading the wrong fanfics.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:59 am

Stabs wrote:
So, as it turns out, we do everything we can to discourage pred hunters from being written. But... we know that it happened during several points in the chronology. The Titans fought some preds (and didn't always lose), the Sagolians hit them for massive damage, the elves could bring 'em to their knees, and the Fist isn't a one-way trip down the gullet either. In fact, for at least one of those civs, it was more cost-effective to fight fairies than to absorb 'em.

And you know, the little guy's gotta try and win. So... maybe we can address how it usually goes? I mean, they're gonna find out eventually! †Neutral

Anyways, I think the main thing is not to discourage pred-hunters, just discourage pred-hunter characters that are created for the sole-purpose to trash the setting and are nothing more than a passive aggressive attack on the fetish. It's mean spirited and even more importantly....it's boring. Pred-Hunters that are completely one note and have no character outside their dislike of predators are not likeable, compelling or even entertaining characters, they are just self-inserts by authors who have an obsessive hatred of vore and never had any intention of trying to write a decent story.

I think it's possible to write compelling, nuanced and balanced characters who just happen to hunt preds, it all comes down to the tone of the 'author's voice.'


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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:03 am

Would anyone like me to write an article about general monster hunting for the wiki thatll contain the essence of whats been said in this topic, maybe with an arrangement of characters linked to the forum / wiki that display what a good pred hunter COULD look like? Of course, you would have to send me the links to potentially fitting Characters if we went for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:15 am

tkh1304 wrote:
A predator often has advantages in crown control by capture/eating preys, lessening the number of threat to deal with instantly. People who are actively hunt for predators should have be equipped to prevent being eaten in the first place, or at least still be able to support even after being eaten.
Killing a threat is even more effective at reducing the number of threats, and is the norm. We shouldn't consider vore to be specially effective as a defensive measure.

tkh1304 wrote:
By the way, where's the magic users? Not every mage needs to be able to zap or hurl badass fireballs. Illusionist that make you appears as a group of few humans, then suddenly appears as more than thirty armed to the teeth when the pred jumps out from ambush, or create a fake firewall that stop a predator from running away.
tkh1304 wrote:
To counter a predator, magic has to be either:
-Very strong direct magic affect predators in meaningful ways other than just a light burn or a bruise: only magic-users with extraordinary talents can hope to fend off predators alone, or in a group of few, in this fashion. Such one-man army must be very elite and rare to see, except for top priority mission.
-Tactical use on predators: fire on Dryads, zapping on merfolk, tripping giants by make a platform rise up at their feet... Offensive magic that make use of environment, predator's weakness... which less costly and maybe more useful than direct magic, but still need skilled mages to do this.
-Tactical use on human side: self-buff to gain advantages (lighter weapon, faster running speed...), illusion magic to hide/clone army, freezing slug girl's slime for the army to pass safely, clean dridder web with fire... Anything that common to above-average mages can do for their group to gain advantages against predators, not just simply zapping or fire-ball hurling.
SenecaHyde wrote:
Illusionists might be the most effective if they can use illusions to make the predator cause itself harm, but it'd take some pretty big illusions to do that.
Malahite wrote:
Ö Alternatively, an up-scaled Cloudkill-like spell could work (if I recall right something analogous already exists as an environmental threat in some area of Felarya), but presumably such magic in a realm like Felarya would be highly taxing compared to other options available.
Amaroq has explained in great detail many of the options we have in order to begin damaging a predator, guys...

SenecaHyde wrote:
There's also a question of incentive. Why would a hunter go out to fight a giant? They'd never be able to carry anything they harvest, even if you had a large crew. Off the top of my head, that leaves me with two other obvious motives, though I'm sure you can come up with more:
1) Stave off a threat to an area. As Stabs mentioned, this is the kind of thing that happens (with a high number of powerful fighters/casters), but in this case it's much easier to deter the predator than to actually kill it.
2) Glory seekers. But realistically, someone who's willing to dive into a challenge like this probably hasn't thought it all the way through, and the attack would most likely end hilariously badly.
Lockheed X-17 wrote:
I have a character who is in the path of vengeance to avenge the death of his parents (ala batman style) and he is one heck of an illusionist that uses the things around him. He is also an engineer capable of massive construction (even with his tomthumb height) that could be paired with his knowledge of magic.
I see motives as a footnote at best... but alright, that's three right there.


Darth_Nergal wrote:
Poisons, I can't stress how useful poisons are for prey trying to defend itself. And it's not like you need a ton. For example, "It is estimated that a single teaspoon of botulinum toxin would be sufficient to kill over 1 billion people." And that stuff isn't rare, " botulinum toxin has found a role in the medical and cosmetic world. It is used to treat excessive sweating, migraine headaches and unsightly wrinkles on ladyís foreheads in the from of Botox." You can weaponize it so that you don't have to feed it to someone. An injection from, say, a bullet would work perfectly, and if a teaspoon can kill around 1 billion people, how much would a teaspoon do to a single giant naga?
Malahite wrote:
Biological agents would work fairly well for hunting Giant Predators. The main issue with those is that they would similarly work on anything else in the exposure area that isn't securely sealed. And remaining completely sealed between acquisition, transport, and release might be easier said than done in a jungle environment with overgrown insects. You would also have issues in regard to larger dosages being necessary (unless you were going for a prolonged death from things like infected / necrotic injuries), and that only furthers the necessity of a properly sealed transport / armor.
hhhat09 wrote:
And yeah, it would likely be outlawed - so merchants looking to sell their ill ilk would likely set up shop in the vast shanty and criminal labyrinth that is the Pit, or lower tier shops with corrupt cops serving the neighborhood. THey may also sell it under the counter at say, the Hero's tavern. But yes, it would likely be a lucrative business - hated by the nobles of course, but those who survive can price the poisons reasonably for a nice profit, and high demand for the effectiveness of it (with, of course, the right people being informed of exacts. Gotta keep things clandestine.)
Malahite wrote:
It's not even a nobility thing. [...] Think of it not as a N.B.C. materials, but stuff to make explosives for a second. If some non-military organization was going around buying enough boom to theoretically level a city block, people are going to be concerned.
hhhat09 wrote:
Use the same tactics actual mass killers would use, slowly stockpile over a few months? I'd imagine the sheer amount of pop. would mean that hundreds of miniscule purchases would be washed away. Plus, Negav doesn't' seem too secure in terms of bureaucracy in the lower tier, so... Yeah.
Amaroq wrote:
I am with those who say, the black market allows for everything in negav and NO ONE can prevent you from mixing your own little poisons / going out and gather it in the nature. Sure, you can restrict it for the common person, but its not like a monster hunter would limit themselves because some nobleman is fearing to get themselves killed. Theres enough magic around to kill anyone if someone wants and Negav has enough assassins to do the job, so... Yeah, you cant prevent people from getting poison, only make it harder for those without connections. Its the same as with guns in RL-. Those who really WANT guns and kill someone with it, will get them somehow - its just harder.
I will grant that we'd need a SPECIFIC, accessory development if we intended for there to be a drought of chemicals. I will grant that toxic materials would probably be allowed.


tkh1304 wrote:
I wonder if Felaryan native creatures would handle well against environmental pollution. If regardless of environmental side effects, than prey-sized people can try to poison water, plants and animals around where a predator lives to make her sick and wear her down.
Poison works pretty much the same in Felarya. There's those scarabs that manage toxins for you, but they'd do only so much, and those plants that purify water... they might be more effective. Nonetheless, toxins would work, I suppose.

DarkOne wrote:
Anyways, I think the main thing is not to discourage pred-hunters, just discourage pred-hunter characters that are created for the sole-purpose to trash to trash the setting and are nothing more than a passive aggressive attack on the fetish. It's mean spirited and even more importantly....it's boring. Pred-Hunters that completely one note and have no character outside their dislike of predators are not likeable, compelling or even entertaining characters, they are just self-inserts by authors who have an obsessive hatred of vore and never had any intention of trying to write a decent story.
Actually, there's no need to discourage those; we didn't write the Anarchist's Cookbook, after all. I was only thinking of unifying expectations for the hunters, not prevent or pre-empt them.

Amaroq wrote:
Would anyone like me to write an article about general monster hunting for the wiki thatll contain the essence of whats been said in this topic, maybe with an arrangement of characters linked to the forum / wiki that display what a good pred hunter COULD look like? Of course, you would have to send me the links to potentially fitting Characters if we went for that.
I... think I would, Amaroq, but you said you don't want to write an article if it won't make any difference, and we know you've been busy lately. Maybe you should wait for Karbo?
If you do, I'd advise you not to spend more than two sentences (preferably one) on, for instance, availability issues. It's more important to describe what a pred hunter would look like than to describe how to smuggle poison in a fictional world.

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:02 am

Ill be off for the rest of the week (WACKEN!) but when i return and people like the idea then I will sit down and start to type the article. I'll try to get it short but i trust in you to optimize it like with the reynke article. ^^
But yes an Ok from karbo would be nice.

until then please continue the discussion here, so the more info we gather and the more we come to a unified opinion on troublemaking aspects, the better :3
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PostSubject: Why are Monsterhunters so rare in Felarya?   Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:51 pm

Don't know if you took this in regard, but even only to reach the target is as dangerous as any other undertaking in Felarya. Also a tactic working on one target will not work on another monster, even if it's a member of the same group. What will work for Crisis will not work against Anna, what will take down Malika will be countered by Vivian - and this are only the Nagas!

Secondly, Felarya is a lot more connected with respect to information than you thought - you forgot that Dryads share information almost constantly. Let information about such hunter fall to Dryads and is highly possible you loose the surprise you were counting with. Nothing is deadlier!

Lookouts. Tinnies in the jungle aren't your friends! Go for someone like Milie and first Neera who discovers this will warn her. She is after all protecting them, some even intentionally, against Nekos! You are spotted by them? You are screwed.

I read a good story once where an antipredator cult targeted, successfully, young Naga, using sleeping poison applied by a living bait. Because their leader was obsessed with Crisis in captain Achab way, only one of them survived a week! One of the veterans was killed by the heroine when she tried to sacrifice her to save herself!

Guardians will took out anyone who would attack Felarya itself - insane people plotting to destroy anything and everything are why Guardians exists, after all.

Attacking Predators en masse will make you a treat - and be taken out by Fairies who are organised enough to field true army. Hell, Crimson Maidens ARE army specialising to fight treats to Fairies!

This don't meant killing of Predators didn't happened - Crisis herself is an orphan, her mother was killed before she hatched. Most deaths of Predators go on behalf of other Predators tough.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:44 pm

Not... quite, Arnost. Welcome, by the way.

While what works against Crisis and Anna is different than what would work against Vivian, that implies something will work. Finding out exactly what is half the fun.

Secondly, while dryads are connected, they don't know what they don't know and they aren't everywhere either. They could spot you, they could not, and they could just the same spot you and still not share the fact with your intended target.

Third, tinies are lookouts only in that one case. Milly has the concern of the Alsumi tribe alone, and no other giants or tinies seem to share that kind of relationship. In general, those two groups do not communicate; that's what makes her so unique.

While guardians will attempt to preserve the balance, they are not interested in fighting people killing individual predators. Until you threaten to change the face of Felarya through yer actions, you're not in any danger from them (Except Nemyra, who might eat you anyway just 'cause she's a jerk).

But you make a good point about the Crimson Fairies. They are explicitly isolationistic; so long as you don't attack them, they probably won't do more than gossip about you. Still, you should piss them off before the Guardians, if only because you should hit fairy scale response before you hit guardian scale response.

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:52 am

If someone pisses of everybody in Felarya, then what do we call him/her?

I was planning to create an OC that basically pisses of every predator in Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:07 am

They would probably be considered villains. Aside from that... You DONT want to piss off every predator. They might find means to kill you other than eating you.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:15 am

Another nice Poison is PALYTOXINE, produced by a very special Sea Anemone.

It is supposed to be very powerful - and there is no Antidot.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:06 am

Bandur Khan wrote:
Another nice Poison is PALYTOXINE, produced by a very special Sea Anemone.

It is supposed to be very powerful - and there is no Antidot.

I think i saw that on a Japanese game show. Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:55 am

Lockheed X-17 wrote:
If someone pisses of everybody in Felarya, then what do we call him/her?

A jerk, obviously. Razz

wrote:
Another nice Poison is PALYTOXINE, produced by a very special Sea Anemone.

It is supposed to be very powerful - and there is no Antidot.

I prefer ACME poison, produced by ACME Corp. Seriously, though, you've made your point- it is not unthinkable that a certain poison could be powerful enough to kill whatevers.

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:38 am

So, no nukes... Sad †How can we then prevent a monster hunter from killing everyone?

We could either summon a guardian (Meh, to forced) or create a story that will force him to succumb in death.

On weapons, how about rockets and electricity. For example, we could make the humans use electricity to fend off most of the predators by sending a jolt that will force them to leave. Not enough to kill them but only electrochutes them.

We...They could use rockets to at least provide some explosive power to counter their physical attributes

So rockets...

They could use instead the fire to burn the enemy though...


Helooooo???? ANYBODY THERE???



Merged with your double post, please refrain from doing that.
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Nyaha
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Eternal Optimist
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Posts : 3845
Join date : 2007-12-09
Age : 24
Location : Canada. ^.^ Goooooo Snow!

PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:10 am

Y'know, I'm surprised that in a thread called "Monster Hunter: Felarya", nobody seems to have brought up, or at least had a worthwhile discussion, about weaponry inspired by the Monster Hunter franchise. XD I mean, think about how awesome that would be! Even if it were just the norm for hunting giant-sized beasts like kensha instead of actual giant people, having weapons like Switch Axes, Hunting Horns, and Gunlances in Felarya would be both totally sweet and not setting-breaking! Because of the combination of magic and technology in Felarya, I'm sure the workings and weildability, as well as the resilience of these Felaryan monster hunters, could be aptly explained, too.

And hey, what's to say they wouldn't make great weapons against sapient preds, too? Suppose Crisis gets too close to a village out in the forest? The monster hunters could be called out to drive her away, like the 'repel' quests in the MH series. Uuuuuuuuuuuuungh it would be so awesome!!! I think I found my next story series, once I make more headway in TAFKAN! XD
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