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Gamma
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:03 pm

The big thing discouraging Monster Hunter style weapons in Felarya is that all the biggest, baddest monsters...look like humans with some monster bits. Monsters in Monster Hunter tend to be 150% made of monster pieces, whereas the best you'll get from a Felaryan apex predator is maybe 40%. Smaller things like kensha beasts would work, though. As to how effective they would be when compared to weapons made from inorganic materials...well, now we're back to the square-cube law as it applies to predators except now we have to consider Felarya-specific minerals and alloys. I could see it being an effective substitute, though, especially in areas further away from industrial centers; that village needing Crisis repelled would be getting that hunter help from other nearby villages or small towns instead of sending to Negav and requesting an Isolon Fist brigade that might or might not ever come.

As to how to prevent a monster hunter from killing everyone...well, the easiest way is for them to just get unlucky. Next up is for them to run into a predator that just wants them outright dead, and doesn't care about making it fun or about keeping the remains edible. Smarter predators might hire human-sized assassins...or go to the local gerridi tribe, shrink down to human size, and do the deed themselves.

On the topic of poisons: one of the most likely injection points is going to be from inside the predator. That's right into a mucous membrane, one of the most vulnerable spots on a body to chemicals. Imagine just how effective a PMED (Particle Mediated Epidermal Delivery) injection to a predator's esophagus would be. Really, any journeyman alchemist should be able to whip up a poison that can bring down a predator with just a vial if delivered from inside; an experienced alchemist could make one that would act quickly enough to get them out alive. Autoinjectors could be a relatively safe way to transport and store the poison as well as being a quick and reliable delivery mechanism.

...It's actually scary how lethal a human with a bit of poison can be to a predator. That's definitely going into one of my characters.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:40 pm

Gamma wrote:
The big thing discouraging Monster Hunter style weapons in Felarya is that all the biggest, baddest monsters...look like humans with some monster bits. †Monsters in Monster Hunter tend to be 150% made of monster pieces, whereas the best you'll get from a Felaryan apex predator is maybe 40%. †Smaller things like kensha beasts would work, though. †As to how effective they would be when compared to weapons made from inorganic materials...well, now we're back to the square-cube law as it applies to predators except now we have to consider Felarya-specific minerals and alloys. †I could see it being an effective substitute, though, especially in areas further away from industrial centers; that village needing Crisis repelled would be getting that hunter help from other nearby villages or small towns instead of sending to Negav and requesting an Isolon Fist brigade that might or might not ever come.

I didn't mean 'Monster Hunter' style weapons in the sense that they're weapons made from monster parts, I only meant in terms of function. Weapons like that can easily be made from synthetic materials - hell, a good chunk of them already are in the main series itself! So I don't see how the lack of monster parts to make weapons out of would be discouraging (especially considering the fact that the majority of the predators out there are non-sapient beasts as one might find in the MH series, so really, there's not really any lack of beast parts to make weapons with even if that were the main point). If you ask me, weapons that are made specifically for hunting large beasts and occasionally giant people, for example an oversized rifle that fires off arrowhead-like bullets that embed themselves in creatures flesh, oftentimes with some added effect like shrapnel, concussion blasts, a status ailment, or elemental damage, would be a lot more effective (not to mention cooler) than modern weaponry. I don't see why they would be considered a 'substitute', especially in a place like Negav where complex and sometimes magical weapons would be easier to construct than some small village in the wilderness.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:38 pm

Yeah, I thought you meant Monster Hunter weapons more in terms of using monsters for materials. I could definitely see some of the designs being of limited use against predators and more than limited use against large beasts. That said, I don't think there's much to be done in designing handheld weapons to work against full-size predators; either you're going to need something bigger than handheld, or I figure you'd use an existing anti-vehicle weapon with modified ammo. Killing a predator through physical trauma from a handheld weapon doesn't seem terribly practical. The rifle idea seems more or less identical to existing anti-material rifles with explosive, fragmentation, or magically-charged ammunition. That said, if you want to use the general designs, go right ahead. They'll still probably be better than normal swords and shields.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:26 am

Gamma wrote:
That said, I don't think there's much to be done in designing handheld weapons to work against full-size predators; either you're going to need something bigger than handheld, or I figure you'd use an existing anti-vehicle weapon with modified ammo. †Killing a predator through physical trauma from a handheld weapon doesn't seem terribly practical.

Well, as I said, it doesn't have to always be about scoring a kill. For sapient predators like Crisis and the like, simply driving them away from an area would realistically be all they need to do to get paid. You yourself even insinuated that because those kinds of predators are usuall only about 40% exotic creature, there wouldn't be as big a market for their materials, thus few to no requests for anyone to actually go kill them (and even if there were, there's no saying that Felaryan monster hunters would jump on that wagon anyway).

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I think Felarya needs a Hunter's Guild. XD Taking jobs involving getting materials from Felarya's wild animals to get them on the market for producing Felaryan goods, protecting caravans and defending settlements, clearing beasts out to allow mining and researching operations, and attempting to drive away the very occasional sapient predator. I think that'd make a great basis for stories and RPs!
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:42 am

Nyaha wrote:
Even if it were just the norm for hunting giant-sized beasts like kensha instead of actual giant people, having weapons like Switch Axes, Hunting Horns, and Gunlances in Felarya would be both totally sweet and not setting-breaking!
I can agree on the sweetness, the other thing... well, they don't HAVE to be setting-breaking.

Gamma wrote:
As to how effective they would be when compared to weapons made from inorganic materials...well, now we're back to the square-cube law as it applies to predators except now we have to consider Felarya-specific minerals and alloys.
Well, on that topic... we know monster bits already don't pay much attention to the square-cube law (at least while they're inside the monster). So that's a thought. Get the biggest monster's bones, that'll probably do the trick. If you can't get any iron, look for a dead mumansi and steal its bones after the kenshas are done with 'em. There may be a chunk big enough for you to work with... you'd just need a bigger chunk to work it with XD

Gamma wrote:
On the topic of poisons: one of the most likely injection points is going to be from inside the predator.
Well, the thing about poisons is that they're made of stuff. There could be unexpected bottlenecks, unless you can make the specific poison you need out of anything (or import large amounts from offworld, where supply bottlenecks are a joke). But... let's assume not.

Lockheed X-17 wrote:
How can we then prevent a monster hunter from killing everyone?
Again, we can't. And we don't have to. If a story follows a monster hunter who kills everything and everyone, it's still not the end of the world.

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:04 pm

Stabs wrote:
If you can't get any iron, look for a dead mumansi and steal its bones after the kenshas are done with 'em.

O.O This I had not thought of! And those horns of Mumansi are so sharp and tough they can peirce naga scales and other pred deffenses with ease. >.> Hmmm got some ideas from that,Stabs, thanks!

Stabs wrote:
Well, on that topic... we know monster bits already don't pay much attention to the square-cube law

Gamma wrote:
That said, I don't think there's much to be done in designing handheld weapons to work against full-size predators

Maybe not against predators themselves but keep this in mind: Predators aren't they only thing you need worry about. Human threats, local fauna and flora are more likely to get you and while it's true if you have "Boomstick" type weapon you can blast ANYTHING that stands in your way but not without some danger of splash-back damage or worse causing a ruckus which can attract dangerous stuff like Predators. You might say: "well I got da boomstick! I can just keep blastin' em till theyz dead!" Yeaaaah but you waste precious ammo for that over sized weapon of which you can on;y carry so many shots. So to solve this you use a weapon that's smaller and who's ammo you can carry more of without weighing you down too much. Ofcourse in Felarya people seem to favor weapons with magical or enchanted properties so you could eleminate the weight problem with Featherlight spells or such? Hmm...I think I just solved the problem with Tam's rocket launcher being so big and how to carry more ammo. Thanks, Gams! cat

Felarya takes the square cube law and bends it over it's knee. Laughing And I love that it does. That silly theory gets in the way of too many fun giant releated things. XP And nobody can even prove it.

Nyaha wrote:
Well, as I said, it doesn't have to always be about scoring a kill. For sapient predators like Crisis and the like, simply driving them away from an area would realistically be all they need to do to get paid.

This is a good point I haven't honestly thought of. o.O Huh. Realistically it takes allot of ordinace to kill a predator but to drive one off might not require so much fire power as being a pest and using Gorilla Warfare and annoying a pred till they decide the area is just too much trouble to hunt in. Interesting.

Nyaha:
 

On Felarya maybe. What about offworld? It's sorta like Americans don't use shark parts for much but in Asia Shark Fin soup is a medicianal dish, so why can one know make Selluchi Soup of sorts on another world? Or the decorative value such the fact Naga scales are big, shiny and in some cases, like Malika, have unique paterns. I can see some rich off world noble wanting one of her scales to hang above his mantle and paying top dollar for it. That doesn't justify it for you? Think about the raw tissue value. Stim Cells could be harvested and sold to various worlds for sceintific purposes

Nyaha wrote:
Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I think Felarya needs a Hunter's Guild. XD Taking jobs involving getting materials from Felarya's wild animals to get them on the market for producing Felaryan goods, protecting caravans and defending settlements, clearing beasts out to allow mining and researching operations, and attempting to drive away the very occasional sapient predator. I think that'd make a great basis for stories and RPs!

I agree a Hunter's Guild sounds like a good idea for most of that. Getting goods, protecting caravans of merchants or what have you buuuuut isn't protecting Negav's minning, researching and whatever-have-you places up to the Isolon Fist? Unless you're implying they work like mercs or outside of Negav too?
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:56 pm

Need metal?

How about the natural ore deposits in Felarya, or how about the imbued objects?
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:49 am

jedi-explorer wrote:
I agree a Hunter's Guild sounds like a good idea for most of that. Getting goods, protecting caravans of merchants or what have you buuuuut isn't protecting Negav's minning, researching and whatever-have-you places up to the Isolon Fist? Unless you're implying they work like mercs or outside of Negav too?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's basically what monster hunters are in the game series, right? So it might as well be that way in Felarya, too. Heck, places like Shillapo, the Jungle Bowl, Safe Harbor, Kelerm, and even smaller settlements could have Hunters Guild representatives or branches to register and give out jobs in those areas, too! ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:25 am

Lockheed X-17 wrote:
Need metal?

How about the natural ore deposits in Felarya, or how about the imbued objects?

Not that I'm arguing against mining your own ore....but if we're being realistic? Mining is usually a huge afair done by companies or hundreds for a good reason. Terraria and Minecraft may make single operations minning fun but minning isn't fun. It's dangerous, hard work and done with noisy, heavy equipment. Now in Felarya where noise equals death and preds like Anna will happily nick your precious, expensive, minning equipment? XD Yeaaah you'd be better off just buying already forged weapons or making them from monster parts.

Nyaha wrote:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's basically what monster hunters are in the game series, right? So it might as well be that way in Felarya, too. Heck, places like Shillapo, the Jungle Bowl, Safe Harbor, Kelerm, and even smaller settlements could have Hunters Guild representatives or branches to register and give out jobs in those areas, too! ^_^

I wouldn't know as I've wanted to play it since it first came out but never gotten the cash or time. ^^; Hmm I agree with all of the following but Shilapo. Most of the creatures on their island are of the smaller monster variety or are preds. ^^; Not the best harvesting sources plus they mostly have Sea Krait,the odd freindly mermaid to gaurd their ships AND the Tolem Kelp ^^; I dunno it could be viable to make monster weapons from sea creatures and that could be added to the "Fishing" trade. <.< Hmmm maybe you're onto something after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:56 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:
I wouldn't know as I've wanted to play it since it first came out but never gotten the cash or time. ^^; Hmm I agree with all of the following but Shilapo. Most of the creatures on their island are of the smaller monster variety or are preds. ^^; Not the best harvesting sources plus they mostly have Sea Krait,the odd freindly mermaid to gaurd their ships AND the Tolem Kelp ^^; I dunno it could be viable to make monster weapons from †sea creatures and that could be added to the "Fishing" trade. <.< Hmmm maybe you're onto something after all.

Again, I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. The question isn't, "Are there things worth hunting to make weapons and commodities?" as much as it is "Are there people who will pay us to hunt things for them?" That said, you do make a good point with the friendly merfolk who either work for free or work for things other than money, which might be hard to compete with from a business standpoint.

I hope you get to play it sometime. ^_^ MonHun is super fun. Except for the first two or so hours. >_< Those have always been the weakest part of any Monster Hunter game. But they are coming out with Monster Hunter X, in Japan at least, so maybe they'll finall remedy that.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:05 pm

A Hunter's Guild of sorts would probably work, but I'd bet that most of everyone's favorite 30-meter predators would be treated along the lines of Ceadeus (for those who haven't fought one: run away, evacuate all civilians in the area, and if absolutely necessary come back a week later with everyone and try and drive them off). Parts from smaller animals could definitely be useful in less advanced and industrialized areas; after all, that was common in real life historically.

Also, the Hunter's Guild could probably make decent money fetching alchemists their reagents.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:30 am

The only thing that a hunter guild would really fear are not predators, but angry businessmen and treasure hunters. The businessmen would really try to increase rent, while treasure hunters might say they are not worthwhile jobs.

Still, they would really do good in driving predators off, especially with miniature Isolon eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:06 am

Gamma wrote:
Also, the Hunter's Guild could probably make decent money fetching alchemists their reagents.

Goddamn fucking mushroom gathering quests! DX


...I agree with everything else you mentioned.


Lockheed X-17 wrote:
Still, they would really do good in driving predators off, especially with miniature Isolon eyes.

You, sir, are missing a primary point of the idea. Also, Isolon eyes aren't exactly easy easy to come by on the market. I highly doubt Negav's government would just give mini eyes out to some barbaric beast hunting guild run by a bunch or roughnecks.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:45 pm

Nyaha wrote:
You, sir, are missing a primary point of the idea. Also, Isolon eyes aren't exactly easy easy to come by on the market. I highly doubt Negav's government would just give mini eyes out to some barbaric beast hunting guild run by a bunch or roughnecks.

I didn't say anything about giving free mini-eyes, And I didn't say that they will get it from a market...

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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:43 pm

Nyaha wrote:
Gamma wrote:
Also, the Hunter's Guild could probably make decent money fetching alchemists their reagents.
You, sir, are missing a primary point of the idea. Also, Isolon eyes aren't exactly easy easy to come by on the market. I highly doubt Negav's government would just give mini eyes out to some barbaric beast hunting guild run by a bunch or roughnecks.

Maybe not but what about renting it? We know they did it for Nekomura, so why not small enterprises and satelite villages and such? It adds revenue and makes these organizations and goverments dependent on Negav since Magiocrat Artifacts are hard to backwards engineer. It especially helps if you make it so whoever gets one is off far away so that it could explode safely or more likely remind them of the constant threat of destablizing and leaving them as a open buffet.
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PostSubject: Re: Monster Hunter: Felarya   Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:50 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:
Maybe not †but what about renting it? We know they did it for Nekomura, so why not small enterprises and satelite villages and such? It adds revenue and makes these organizations and goverments dependent on Negav since Magiocrat Artifacts are hard to backwards engineer. It especially helps if you make it so whoever gets one is off far away so that it could explode safely or more likely remind them of the constant threat of destablizing and leaving them as a open buffet.

First, I think you messed up your quote chain there, buddy. ^^; Second, that may or may not be a good idea, but regardless, it wouldn't involve the Hunters' Guild unless there were creatures which needed taking care of along the route to the place where the Isolon Eye Mini was being taken to. Their job would be to hunt monsters, not transport highly prized magitech artifacts places. That said, they might transport eggs places if you pay a lot. XD
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