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 Why even have weapons in Felarya?

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dragon808tr
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PostSubject: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:40 pm

Here's something I've been wondering, with most predators being too large to be hurt with arrows, swords, and bullets that would be the equivalent of small cuts or bee stings (which heal quick) why bother bringing weapons in the jungle? For example, if you had a team of 5 people with assault rifles and met Crisis, you don't stand a chance (Unless you hit her eye or breast). The same would be mostly the same except for faries if you managed to hit the wings. So in a sense, weapons are totally useless! Even magical swords were worthless (as seen in the opening of tome 1).

In all honestly, the only thing that might work from a conventional weapon as we know, would be a grenade launcher or RPG. And even then, this may just bruise the giantess.

With weapons being more or less useless, why bother to use them? Is this why magic is OP in Felarya? If so, why do adventurers bother to carry weapons if they would slow down their speed when running away?

Now, If I was in Felarya, I might bring a shotgun for the faries, but would stick to magic attacks if I could learn them as well as diplomacy.

Anyway, sorry if you think it's a stupid thread, but it is a question of mine.

Inspired by the discarded weapons of this: http://karbo.deviantart.com/art/Resting-553763892
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:22 pm

Have you ever heard the phrase "It's better to have something and not need it than not having something and needing it"? That's pretty much the idea. Also, you are terribly mistaken if you think everything in Felarya is supersized. Something like a Bloodclaw ape (bad example) stands shorter than a human, but if you were to run into it and not have a weapon on hand, you're fucked. There are dangers out there other than the intelligent giants, or the giant beasts. There are threats that are closer to the size of a human, and this is where small arms come in handy. Go ahead, try using a rocket or grenade launcher against a swarm of goblin like creatures that just surrounded you, my prediction is that you're going to blow up your own leg, and that's if you're lucky.

Furthermore, something Cliff loves to point out, giants are not invincible. Sure, most small arms aren't really life threatening to them, about being as dangerous as a bee's sting (allergies not withstanding), but let me ask you this: do you like getting stung by bees? If you see a bee, what do you do? You put some distance between you and hit cause getting stung by a bee hurts, of course. It's the same principle. Crisis would never just move toward five people all armed with rifles from the front in her right mind, that would be stupid. No, the bullets wouldn't kill her, but they would sting, a lot, and a wounded naga can very quickly become a dead naga in that environment with everything preying on something that's been weakened. So the risk is not worth it.

For this reason, no sane giant would charge at armed humans, that just makes no sense. What makes them dangerous is their ability to blend with their surroundings and being able to use basic reasoning to circumvent those problems. In the same vein, if Crisis spotted a group of people and saw some dude in a robe carrying a staff, she'll immediately deduce that she's the asshole slinging spell, and she'll think of a way to take him out first so his magic never once comes into play. Not so OP now, is it?

But, while weapons may not be effective against giants, they do have one advantage: because charging ahead would be counter-productive for the giants, that means they have fewer options at their disposal to try and catch the humans, and because they have fewer options, the humans have less things to worry about and can concentrate on their surroundings better.

tl;dr, conventional weapons are not all that effective and probably never will be, but you would have to be a fucking dunce to ever go out there without anything to defend yourself with. Magic's nice, but substantial magic takes forever to learn, and not everybody got time or the talent to learn that, and items like staves and wand probably cost a lot, so not everyone can afford it either.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:08 pm

You may not be able hurt giant predators with your swords, bows and arrows.

But you can do it to predators with more managable sizes.

You may not be able fend off giants predators with your swords, bows and arrows.

But you can do it, when you face robbers who are the same size as you.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:55 am

One phrase I learned: It's time to do science!
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:39 am

Well weapons are still important if you go venture in the jungle. A sword or a rifle might not be so useful against a giant naga, sure, but it will definitely come in handy against smaller threats like various predatory animals which are still the number one cause of danger there.

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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:59 am

Karbo wrote:
Well weapons are still important if you go venture in the jungle. A sword or a rifle might not be so useful against a giant naga, sure, but it will definitely come in handy against smaller threats like various predatory animals which are still the number one cause of danger there.

Also weapons and equipment give the adventurers security and peace of mind, even if they aren't actually terribly useful. Sometimes holding something or being some kind of position may help you think better. Ever hold and twirl a pencil while you type on the computer? I do. I see it as the same thing for the sword or gun. You hold it while in a difficult position, even if you dont use it, you may come up with a crazy scenario that lets you narrowly avoid getting eaten.

RAWR.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:09 am

German military teaches soldiers to fire at incoming tanks, in the mere hope to blind it, by having a lucky shot enter the viewing ports, effectively impairing the drivers vision. Its not very effective and usually not a viable strategy, but if you have the means and ammo to do so, it can pay off.

Same can be said about predators. Having the possibility of a lucky shot against the eye is better than nothing at all.


We already mentioned why weapons are useful against smaller threats as well, but I particularly want to point out the usefulness of a blade such as a machete in a jungle environment with carnivorous plants and vines all over the place.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:07 am

You have to remember those aren't only used for battle. Felarya is a big and dangerous place, and while you may have brought food, that food could be lost trying to escape a pred, you could find yourself hopelessly lost and running out of supplies etc.

Point is these aren't just weapons they're survival tools. Swords and Axes when needed can be used to cut fire wood, cut down fruits, and so many more. Bows and guns, they can be used to hunt. And if really necessary these things can be used as walking sticks or canes if you just so happen to hurt your leg on your travels.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:40 pm

You need weapons in Felarya to defend yourself not from predators, but from thieves, marauders, assassins, etc. The thing is that you need to protect yourself from people with the weapons, but at extremely rare case when protecting yourself from predators. For example, it is possible to puncture an eye of a predator, unless on rare occasions when it's eyes are closed (Eyelids are thin in general, and could be easily punctured) or when trying to escape and using your weapons and environment to evade the predator.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:16 pm

Well, Felarya's tech level is all over the place, and so is its level of magic. You have purely mundane iron spears alongside ascarlin-decorated Tedrek steel swords that can shoot lightning with enough wattage to outright cook a predator in a second and Vishmital anti-armor wide-bore shoulder-mounted pulse laser cannons. As has been covered in plenty of detail above, there's a lot of smaller things that even those lower-tech, lower-magic weapons will be useful against, but there's nothing in all of Felarya that can't be killed with the right weapon. Those fancy weapons, however, are still more advanced versions of those that came before (though due to the dimensional instability of Felarya, weapon development is running in parallel several times over). The question is overly broad, but all weapons have their uses; some are just vastly more useful than others. That said, even most modern weapons would be highly effective against predators; an assault rifle can put out a lot of hurt quickly due to a high rate of fire. A sniper rifle can easily take out a predator's eye or perhaps puncture a lung; an anti-material rifle with the right rounds can kill one outright. I'd say that in the case of those five modern soldiers vs. Crisis (let's say a fireteam, so three riflemen, one grenadier, and one solider with a squad automatic weapon), Crisis isn't going to be able to easily beat them without risk; they might not be able to kill her, but she'd lose more than those human's weight in blood trying to get them, risks losing an eye or both, and could easily wind up crippled to the point that she becomes easy prey for some harpies. I'm not familiar enough with the stories that feature her to know if she's dumb enough to try anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Why even have weapons in Felarya?   Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:58 pm

Gamma wrote:
Well, Felarya's tech level is all over the place, and so is its level of magic.  You have purely mundane iron spears alongside ascarlin-decorated Tedrek steel swords that can shoot lightning with enough wattage to outright cook a predator in a second and Vishmital anti-armor wide-bore shoulder-mounted pulse laser cannons.  As has been covered in plenty of detail above, there's a lot of smaller things that even those lower-tech, lower-magic weapons will be useful against, but there's nothing in all of Felarya that can't be killed with the right weapon.  Those fancy weapons, however, are still more advanced versions of those that came before (though due to the dimensional instability of Felarya, weapon development is running in parallel several times over).  The question is overly broad, but all weapons have their uses; some are just vastly more useful than others.  That said, even most modern weapons would be highly effective against predators; an assault rifle can put out a lot of hurt quickly due to a high rate of fire.  A sniper rifle can easily take out a predator's eye or perhaps puncture a lung; an anti-material rifle with the right rounds can kill one outright.  I'd say that in the case of those five modern soldiers vs. Crisis (let's say a fireteam, so three riflemen, one grenadier, and one solider with a squad automatic weapon), Crisis isn't going to be able to easily beat them without risk; they might not be able to kill her, but she'd lose more than those human's weight in blood trying to get them, risks losing an eye or both, and could easily wind up crippled to the point that she becomes easy prey for some harpies.  I'm not familiar enough with the stories that feature her to know if she's dumb enough to try anyway.

Interesting weapon ideas at the beginning there!

But as for the fireteam example, assuming the guns are in good condition from the rainforest and that their are no other enemies or hazards around, I'd go on Crisis's side. When Preds know that there is a heavily armed enemy who they want to eat, they will either pick them off one by one by suprise attacks, and more powerful creatures (Like faries) Could take down a group with little effort. However, if the pred is not careful, they could take damage, but Nagas have no true weakpoints. So the best option for the humans would be a hit and run, of which Crisis would survive. (Seriously though, she is over a hundred feet tall. Bullets would be a little less than beestings, plus her tail could beat them up.)
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