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PostSubject: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2015 3:54 pm

Illoxan

Illoxan Frog_article_zpsfxaq7sq5
(picture isnt quite accurate, usually clothes would not be shrunken along with the victim)

Size: 5-7 inches (12-18 cm)
Threat: Very Low


The Illoxan are frog-like creatures native to the Ixtapal Marshes area, though they can be found in many places with large but slow or stagnant bodies of water. Even then, they are mostly terrestial, since their gills become atrophied as they develop into their adult state. This would normally expose them to land predators more than their distant cousins, but the Illoxan have developed a unique defense system.

Their back possesses retractile spikes that can be shot to an impressive distance when they feel threatened. This wouldn't be a problem for most potential predators, but Illoxan also possess an extraordinary venom capable of shrinking creatures after a time once it enters their bloodstream, depending on dosage. Being able to fire thus poisoned spikes makes them formidable threats when cornered, but not in any other situation since these spikes take a few days to grow again and are only used in self-defence. The spikes on its nose make for a last line of defence, as they can't be launched but are still poisonous like the rest of them. If hit, the creature would shrink dramatically, becoming less than two inches tall, no matter the initial height, and being easy prey for the Illoxan for the hour it takes for the effects to fade. Though, of course, the length of the effect is reduced on greater targets, to the point that nothing bigger (not necessarily taller) than twenty feet is affected. It has been noted that shrunken people don't regrow inside creatures after they have been eaten, and this applies not only to the Illoxan, making the cause a condition met in basically any stomach one could think of. Some people theorise that the internal atmosphere of a stomach, the combination of pressure, humidity and acidic radicals, somehow prevents the venom from losing its effect. Many adventurers who have heard rumors about the Illoxan and the way they shrink their prey for a short time have found themselves quite terrified after their stay inside an Illoxan's stomach turned out to be much longer than they anticipated, as the species takes its time to break down and digest its prey over several days.

Similarly to the length of effect and original size, the amount of venom injected alters the time a creature takes to shrink, from a delayed or slow shrinking to an almost instantaneous transformation. Luckily though, being as small as they are, Illoxan can't propel their spikes too far, between three and four feet for very lucky shots. That means that, with adequate protection, Illoxan can be trapped and handled, and the Gerridis of the Ixtapal Marshes know this well. Their chitin-plated tauric body is perfect for deflecting the spikes, and they've been known to use the Illoxan venom extensively on their blow darts. It is worth noting that Gerridis hunt for Illoxan often, instead of trying to domesticate them for a longer use. Some enterpreneuring humans soon found out that Illoxan kept in captivity never developed a working venom, though the reason for it is unknown.

Illoxan feed on anything smaller than them; insects, rodents, even tinies if they get the chance, but they don't go out of their way to hunt any kind in particular. It is also suspected that they eat some kinds of plants or algae that, combined, would allow them to process their characteristic venom. No one has ever seen them feeding on veggies, so rumours abound. There is also a theory addresing this, which claims that only holy or demonic creatures (fairies being the latter) possess the power to change sizes. According to this, the Illoxan would be divine creatures spawned by a god, their vemon a manifestation of its power and will. This is also supported by the fact that Illoxan seem to be resistant, though not immune, to their own venom, as seen while mating or when males fight each other for domination using their nose spikes, which often result in hour-long fights until the weaker Illoxan is finally shrunken and consumed by the victor.



Idea & Development by Ilceren and Amaroq, based on the 'shrinking venom' used by the Gerridis. Well, THIS is the species they make use of. :3
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2015 4:19 pm

Good article, though I have some questions:

  • Is it just being eaten that stops the poison from wearing off, or does the victim still have to be alive?  Will dead bodies return to normal size?  It would make more sense, to me, if instead of it being any stomach, the illoxan had an enzyme in its stomach that prevented the poison from wearing off...though that might stop gerridis from eating shrunken prey unless they drank some distilled illoxan substance.
  • How small do non-humanoid creatures get?  Is the maximum size based on volume, mass, or simply longest dimension?
  • Is the limit of about twenty feet a limit on the actual venom itself, or just on how much venom an illoxan can pump out?  Could multiple illoxan's worth of venom allow gerridis to bring down larger threats?

As for the whole divine/demonic thing...Naxyla dridders have shrink venom, and this is the first I've heard of fairies being demonic (additionally, they don't shrink the same way other things do, they have their own weird dimensional scaling...stuff), so I'd say that hypothesis is on pretty shaky ground from the get-go.
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2015 4:59 pm

Sound like something I want to catch fresh and sell (illegally) as pets to off-world tourists and Negavian children : x
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2015 7:41 pm

Awesome article!! =D Best new fauna I've read in a while. They're small and harmless looking but use that venom to reduce even the mightiest of warriors to a bite sized snack. ^_^ I also like the coloration you choose and the use of spikes. Haven't seen that much in reptiles on Felarya, mostly insects. I also like all the well thought out checks and balances you put into it with one I was suprised by: the stomach one. How they can digest with their inch tall and not revert while in stomach. Clever work! I also love the fact they won't make venom in captivity. It make it rather hard to use them as living shrink rays and the little bit of lore on the end is nice! I'd like to hear more denezen's opinoins of how fauna and flora factor's into their mythology and lore systems. All in all? Great article and I love that you used your own OC as a example prey. XD Show's guts.

Edit: Can I feature this, both idea and picture, on my DA?


Last edited by jedi-explorer on Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2015 7:57 pm

Overall I like the idea. Honestly I was surprised it wasn't a little bigger. Frogs are generally smaller than that in real life - but that should not be used as inspiration, it should be they are as big as it suits them. Find a good balance for size and threat level so they don't attract unnecessary attention, and they can manage to hunt what they need and stay nourished.

I will try to address both good and bad points, as both are needed for effective critique.

First off:
Its good to have a predatory frog. Its kind of popular among other vorish communities, but I feel like frogs have been generally left out here. Not for vore though, as it needs to flow with the setting, which I think it does. It creates good balance, and the Ixtapal Marshes are rarely touched on.

Also people are commenting on this. Idea threads these days never get any attention, people enjoy their presence but dont want to do the work of reading and posting on it. That being said, since people are posting, that means they're reading, and just like me people are finding it interesting enough. Its an aside, but to me its important.

There is a balance of the shrinking effect. It doesn't last a whole lot, and the frog needs to be insanely close for it to work, and the prey has to be armored to be protected. It sounds like humans will normally be safe unless they wear no protection at all. Even leather would block these spikes it seems. Though you might want to say if it does puncture the protective armor, it may use shrinking at a reduced effect, say, a shorter time that you're small for, so the Illoxan would have to quickly eat you.

Though that sort of leads to some more worrisome points.

I am generally uncomfortable with anything that uses shrinking. Growth and shrinking I think is always hidden. Fairies can abuse it through tactics and intelligence, and can also use it to counter the Illoxan, if they meet. Basically, as much as I love giantess content, from a fetish point of view this Illoxan is fantabouloustisticazing (its pretty welcomed!) However, from a universe standpoint, if too many entities (be they flora or fauna) will make felarya an irritating nightmare.
------Not that would be a bad thing given the universe, but I feel like its too much. If fairies can size shift, this plant can size shift, the poison/noxious fumes from this and that plant can shrink, along with demons and angels travelling in it... I just picture someone comedically wandering down a path changing sizes every other second.

I dont want to focus on the shrinking part though. However that's really the only negative point I can think of it. Seems small enough to keep out of danger, and the spikes give it a good last resort. I see it like a bee with multiple stingers. The stomach being something that takes a looooong time to digest is interesting. Maybe as a way to gain nutrients more effectively. With its 10 day recharge for spikes actually gets me thinking:

What if you lengthened the time it takes to regrow, make the stomach take way longer to digest, and then link those time frames. So for example it takes more like two weeks to regrow, and also two weeks to digest. The Illoxan will then go into a psuedo hibernation, hiding, which enforces the long digestion- and makes it have a more of a purpose (instead of long digestion for the sake of longer digestion). It hides to regrow its spikes so it can go out again, thus making these creatures very rare to encounter, but counter-intuitively very plentiful in number.

You could also maybe touch on the acids. I mean, if you want to be sadistic about how it digests its prey you could say the acid itself (which supports the digestive enzymes ) has unique properties, preserving prey easier, the acids seep in and keep the venom in the prey's system, but as a result, also keeps them conscious longer. It would make its stomach particularly a terrifying place to be.

tl;dr - I think it fits well though, all in all. I think this creature is needed, I'm just nervous about the shrinking venom.

ps: there's more to touch on, but I'll cover this first. How the creature can be used and bred is also something to included, but the marsh is very far away.
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2015 10:40 am

Forget this somehow, but I like the idea of the frog being a staple income of shrinking venom that Gerridis used for their darts. I believes it makes the frog more well-integrated into Felarya that something people actually have a use for instead just "Ok, so this is yet another bizzare creatures in Felarya. Stay away from it like plague."

I wonder what Gerridis do next after harvesting the spikes from the frog. Frog soup sounds nice : x
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2015 11:19 am

Nah, they only eat their legs. This custom was passed down by an ancient tribe called The French.
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2015 11:52 am

I like it.

When I read it at first, I got the idea of somebody taming one, using the frog to shrink themselves, then playing with it. It'd probably also be great for a revenge prank.
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2015 9:35 am

Gamma wrote:
Good article, though I have some questions:
Is it just being eaten that stops the poison from wearing off, or does the victim still have to be alive? Will dead bodies return to normal size? It would make more sense, to me, if instead of it being any stomach, the illoxan had an enzyme in its stomach that prevented the poison from wearing off...though that might stop gerridis from eating shrunken prey unless they drank some distilled illoxan substance.
How small do non-humanoid creatures get? Is the maximum size based on volume, mass, or simply longest dimension?
Is the limit of about twenty feet a limit on the actual venom itself, or just on how much venom an illoxan can pump out? Could multiple illoxan's worth of venom allow gerridis to bring down larger threats?


As for the whole divine/demonic thing...Naxyla dridders have shrink venom, and this is the first I've heard of fairies being demonic (additionally, they don't shrink the same way other things do, they have their own weird dimensional scaling...stuff), so I'd say that hypothesis is on pretty shaky ground from the get-go.
Thankies! ^.^

The victim doesnt have to be alive for the shrinking poison to not wear off, because the acids, poison and other secretes dont care whether you still move or not.
Creatures end up at a fixed size, about roughly 2 inches, mostly regardless of original size. It would be interesting to see what happened to a tiny thats at or below that size to begin with ^^
its a limit of the poison, mostly because it wouldnt be concentrated high enough, but also because larger beings bodies work different from normal ones in order to sustain their giant size. Whether a whole ton of illoxan could bring down a giant with collaborated work remains to be seen, but their nature wouldnt make them gang up on a giant. These stingers are their line of defense, not an active hunting tool. An illoxan would most likely not even realize that giant thing there was a creature, seeing how small they are. A human to them is already a giant. A giant being would for once, have such a thick skin that the poison doesnt get through, and for twice, would just look like a huge wall to them. The hypothesis about the divine is a hypothesis, and remains that. Neither proven nor disproven.

tkh wrote:

Sound like something I want to catch fresh and sell (illegally) as pets to off-world tourists and Negavian children : x
You may, but unless you have a terrarium that has ->everything<- to offer that their natural habitat does, you might have to deal with the fact that the frogs stop producing shrinking venom. If you manage to do that, its the ideal pet! Very Happy


Jedi-explorer wrote:
Awesome article!! =D Best new fauna I've read in a while. They're small and harmless looking but use that venom to reduce even the mightiest of warriors to a bite sized snack. ^_^ I also like the coloration you choose and the use of spikes. Haven't seen that much in reptiles on Felarya, mostly insects. I also like all the well thought out checks and balances you put into it with one I was suprised by: the stomach one. How they can digest with their inch tall and not revert while in stomach. Clever work! I also love the fact they won't make venom in captivity. It make it rather hard to use them as living shrink rays and the little bit of lore on the end is nice! I'd like to hear more denezen's opinoins of how fauna and flora factor's into their mythology and lore systems. All in all? Great article and I love that you used your own OC as a example prey. XD Show's guts.

Edit: Can I feature this, both idea and picture, on my DA?

^_^ thankies! Yeah i dont see too many creatures in felarya either. ^^ We need moar beasts around there, not always the same like 5 critters. ^^ The no venom in captivity is a means to stop all those "oh i am totally gonna abuse this thing for my character he will have such an OP poison!" people. theyre not meant to share their gift. ^^ Gerridis and very few that know how to deal with the frogs are the exception, not the common state. Just like the amazons knew about the poison dart frogs or whatever theyre called in english. But unlike them, those who know keep it as a well hidden secret... And those who capture the frogs and bring them home for studies will say these people lied because the frog doesnt shrink you anymore. X3
Also, i wanted to draw dalia as prey sometime, good thing this scene isnt canon Razz

Edit: Yes you can. ^^

The Bagel wrote:

tl;dr - I think it fits well though, all in all. I think this creature is needed, I'm just nervous about the shrinking venom.

Hmmm i dont know, i like that size around 15 cm (5 inches). it seems good enough to deal with small tinies and insects, but small enough to not be of much attention to the larger preds. Seeing how most of Felarya is supersized and human belong to the smaller range of creatures, the frogs are KIND of surprisingly safe, id say.

I agree, i never got why there are literally no frogs in Felarya. Its one of THE most notable soft vore creatures, even moreso than snakes, and snakes are hyped to no end in this community. Ok, a frog girl might look weird at first, but seeing we have slug girls, or Anko with that sticky tongue, or chamaleon girls, (karbo drew those) then I dont see why not. And huge frogs can certainly be a fine pred. Luckily, this species is still rather small. Until you get stung. Razz

Piercing through armor is relatively unlikely, and since the spikes work similar to syringes, even layered armor would do the trick and prevent the poison from getting inside. Seeing that anything above 20 feet is not affected, if only a small portion of a single needle got into your body, you would not really notably shrink as your body wouldnt be overwhelmed by the poison effect. As you stated, the length is mostly whats determined by the amount of poison injected since the shrinking height is fixed, and the body takes longer to break down the additional poison. So yes, the Illoxan would have to be quick.

I understand yours and others concerns about too much shrinking stuff and I agree for the most part, but remember that gerridis are already said to get their poison from a critter in the swamp. So this species (if canonized) is not ADDING to the already established pool, but defining a large questionmark that was already canon before. That is the difference.

About your idea with linking digestion and regrowth of stingers: Well, I dont see why a frog would not do that. as a reptile, its energy requirement can be tuned down, so it would make sense for it to hide away after using its stingers, to give them time to regrow and reestablish its natural defenses. Unlike a shark, the Illoxan relies on not being forced to use its weapon all the time, its more like the regrowing tail of other known reptiles (Leguan? I think). It works once, or twice, or three times, depending on the amount of stingers being fired (they are shot in pairs, but more panick naturally causes it to fire more than one) and then thats it for a while.
I will think about lengthening the cycles like you suggested. What do others think about that?

I dont really want the stomach to be too painful and cruel, compared to others. Certainly the frog is supposed to cater to vore fetishes as well as enriching the world, and with it being a soft vore beast I dont think making it too cruel and terrifying would be a good idea.

tl;dr: ^_^


tkh wrote:
Forget this somehow, but I like the idea of the frog being a staple income of shrinking venom that Gerridis used for their darts. I believes it makes the frog more well-integrated into Felarya that something people actually have a use for instead just "Ok, so this is yet another bizzare creatures in Felarya. Stay away from it like plague."

I wonder what Gerridis do next after harvesting the spikes from the frog. Frog soup sounds nice : x
im sure they eat the frogs. Razz but they wont swallow them whole, probably filet them in order to get rid of the poison glands. Usually they shouldnt shrink you through eating them, but better safe than sorry. ^^ Accidents might have happened before.

Shady Knight wrote:

Nah, they only eat their legs. This custom was passed down by an ancient tribe called The French.
thanks for your comment on the article. :3

Sprix wrote:

I like it.
When I read it at first, I got the idea of somebody taming one, using the frog to shrink themselves, then playing with it. It'd probably also be great for a revenge prank.
im sure there are people in Felarya who are interested in getting to know these a little better, and they might consider doing this for real. We will just never hear about them, as they probably wont be around to tell~
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2015 10:41 am

Thank you, I do everything I can to help. :3

In all seriousness, this is a pretty good idea for a beast and a much needed one.  The idea that it looks harmless, but can potentially turn the tides on you adds to the idea that almost next to nothing in Felarya is safe.  If you check Tolmeshal's forest article, most fauna listed are harmless critters.  The only ones that pose a legitimate threat are Kensha Beasts; Spine Beetles, which spend most of their time underground and thus rarely encountered; Drakewillow Nexolt, who are a good concept for an ambush predator, but also happen to just small enough to be realistically felled by conventional weaponry, don't do well against groups of armed humans; and Arboreal Frogs, whom you almost only find in tree tops.  That doesn't give a very good idea of how dangerous the place is supposed to be.

Making the Illoxan use their spines as a self-defense mechanism was also a good idea in my opinion.  I suppose it could have worked as your standard killer rabbit type of critter, but not making them attack humans on sight instead makes their not-so harmless nature even less expected, which I think works even better.

About the only change I would make is make an addendum that they can potentially reach Medium or maybe High as a threat.


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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2015 2:23 pm

Ama Rocks wrote:
^_^ thankies! Yeah i dont see too many creatures in felarya either. ^^ We need moar beasts around there, not always the same like 5 critters. ^^ The no venom in captivity is a means to stop all those "oh i am totally gonna abuse this thing for my character he will have such an OP poison!" people. theyre not meant to share their gift. ^^ Gerridis and very few that know how to deal with the frogs are the exception, not the common state. Just like the amazons knew about the poison dart frogs or whatever theyre called in english. But unlike them, those who know keep it as a well hidden secret... And those who capture the frogs and bring them home for studies will say these people lied because the frog doesnt shrink you anymore. X3
Also, i wanted to draw dalia as prey sometime, good thing this scene isnt canon Razz

Edit: Yes you can. ^^

XD Aye. I may endevour to do so myself when I get back to making monsters and fall out of love with making locations and weapons again. sweatdrop

Ama
Ama Rocks Hard wrote:
The no venom in captivity is a means to stop all those "oh i am totally gonna abuse this thing for my character he will have such an OP poison!" people. theyre not meant to share their gift. ^^ Gerridis and very few that know how to deal with the frogs are the exception, not the common state. Just like the amazons knew about the poison dart frogs or whatever theyre called in english. But unlike them, those who know keep it as a well hidden secret... And those who capture the frogs and bring them home for studies will say these people lied because the frog doesnt shrink you anymore. X3
Edit: Yes you can. ^^

XD Amazon Gerridis? geek Hmm I think this deserves a bit more consideration. It sounds like a interesting offshoot of the species and a nice edition to a not so populated area. Hope you explorer that further cause if you don't? I Might just. Also I have to say the latter statement about their poison being considered a hoax makes me think that Gunther might benefit from selling them as "familars" to unwary adventurers and rubes. =P

Ama Rocks Hard Core wrote:
I understand yours and others concerns about too much shrinking stuff and I agree for the most part, but remember that gerridis are already said to get their poison from a critter in the swamp. So this species (if canonized) is not ADDING to the already established pool

Aye!! We need more of this for old articles that are good and kinda work but are too vague in places. <.< Storm Elves and Hidden Chidokai Nekoes wink wink.

Ama Rock of Ages wrote:
I agree, i never got why there are literally no frogs in Felarya.

Actually there's quite a fe frog and frog like species on Felarya. The Azure Frogs,Water Leapers and a huge super species of chimera-like creature with lots of frog traits called a Gargauntuan Bolmog
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PostSubject: Re: Illoxan   Illoxan Icon_minitimeSat Sep 19, 2015 3:30 am

Meh, I know this is kinda out of place, but the post has been sitting in my comp for a while after Ama went ahead and answered the questions. So I thought, well, why not? Maybe it can still answer some people's concerns. Here you go:

Gamma wrote:
Is it just being eaten that stops the poison from wearing off, or does the victim still have to be alive?  Will dead bodies return to normal size?  It would make more sense, to me, if instead of it being any stomach, the illoxan had an enzyme in its stomach that prevented the poison from wearing off...though that might stop gerridis from eating shrunken prey unless they drank some distilled illoxan substance.
Well, the objective here is that any kind of creature can eat the shrunken prey safely, so it's supposed to work on any stomach. Besides, foreign enzymes don't tend to work very well on a creature's digestive tract, but I don't want to get into it. The thing is, this is a venom. If you poison someone what's alive, and the person dies, their organs will still be poisoned. It's actually because a person is alive that the venom loses effect; the body filters and disposes of it, like any toxin, via the kidneys and sweat. If you're dead, you can't get rid of it, and you remain tiny till rotting and such cleans the venom from you.

Gamma wrote:
How small do non-humanoid creatures get?  Is the maximum size based on volume, mass, or simply longest dimension?
All creatures that can be affected will see themselves shrunken to the same size: two inches tall. The maximum we've given is an approximation, no Illoxan produces exactly the same venom as the one next, and no two creatures are the same, even if they are about the same length. The limit given is just an indication that, say, a healthy Naga of about 20 feet of length will not see him or herself shrunk in general. Maybe a thin Naga of that same length would be shrunken, or a smaller Naga won't be even when he/she's shorter than 20 feet because of how she's built. It depends. So, general rule is 20 feet and then you can play with circumstances.

Gamma wrote:
Is the limit of about twenty feet a limit on the actual venom itself, or just on how much venom an illoxan can pump out?  Could multiple illoxan's worth of venom allow gerridis to bring down larger threats?
It is stated later in the article that the amount of venom only seems to accelerate the pace at which the creature is shrunken, from a delayed and slow shrinking to an instantaneous size change. So yeah, that limit has to do with the venom itself, probably linked to the way it manages to make you become smaller, since there's no other logical connection.

Gamma wrote:
As for the whole divine/demonic thing...Naxyla dridders have shrink venom, and this is the first I've heard of fairies being demonic (additionally, they don't shrink the same way other things do, they have their own weird dimensional scaling...stuff), so I'd say that hypothesis is on pretty shaky ground from the get-go.
Well, you don't imagine how fond people of making up theories with little backing. Besides, more than a few people would be pleased to see Fairies classified as demon-spawn.
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