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Karbo
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:07 am

Many good ideas here Smile

I really like the healer guild, it's a good description. My only reservation is about the eidoron ambulances. Before mentioning them I feel we should come up with the vehicle itself. personally I'm not against hovering vehicles in Negav but I feel they should be limited somehow ( Maybe their construction is really complex or something ? ). But overall it's solid and much needed in a city like Negav ^^

As for the Lit Ciggy bar, well we could revise it in a famous bar that is perhaps renowned for its story tellers and as a good place for gathering rumors ? * wink to Ilceren * XD
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:26 am

There's just a lit-tle problem with that reservation, and that it's ambulances are already mentioned in the main page of Negav.  Here's an excerpt from the Transportation and Telecommunication paragraph:

Quote :
Emergency vehicles such as ambulances, and some military vehicles like Jetbikes, are built partially out of Eidoron Rocks, allowing them to fly above most of the traffic and head in a straight line to their destination.

Furthermore, I don't think there needs to be too many ambulances in service. Maybe only two. Three at the very most.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 pm

The Healer's Guild sounds great! Very realistic and we'll made but I am curious...the building is large and built by Negavians, a simple people,  so.would you say there isn't a elevator or escalator system to get from floor to floor? Or like the Teleporters in in the street could we set up a relay system for getting from floor to floor quickly and efficiently?
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:02 pm

I like to think that stairs and a pair of legs work just fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:25 pm

The healer's guild sounds like a solid idea. If I'd add anything, it would be smaller sub-wards that play host to less-conventional but still proven specialists, often offworlders or even demihumans who can use their natural talents for medicinal purposes. Given that they might be forbidden from owning property, I could see the healer's guild as offering them rather gracious accommodations. A shadow version of this might exist underground in the research complex, where, for example, gerridi researchers use their venom to shrink mermaids down small enough to enter blood vessels to remove clots (this may or may not be called Project Benes) and other such risky, morally dubious, yet highly effective procedures are tested.

I'm not sure the eidoron ambulances would work; from what the wiki says on the mineral page, it floats fine, but getting it to move laterally with any speed would be a herculean task, with a literal cyclone being unable to move them at more than a snail's pace. There should be plenty of other ways to make a hover-ambulance, though (and I wouldn't be surprised if other emergency services also used hover vehicles); besides eidoron, adlevite also makes things float, and is called out specifically as being useful for flying. Vehicles with enough adlevite in their frames to actually float, however, would be rather expensive given the rarity of the metal; that could work as one limit on their use. Between magic and more technological means, however, making a low-altitude VTOL of some sort should be rather simple; they could just use a helicopter like real hospitals do, or they could buy modified VTOL medivacs from the Vishmital or hire a Psi'ol wind mage or two to lift around a small ER room. In those cases, the craft would still be expensive to purchase and/or operate, but the primary factor keeping Negav's skies clear of rich folks would be laws against it.

Also, the healer's guild would absolutely need some sort of elevator system between floors; you don't cart a person in critical condition up a flight of stairs. With magic, there's no real reason to keep it purely vertical, either; I could imagine a network of levitation floatways linking different areas of the hospital, with more central fast lanes reserved for critical movements and using a G-damper spell to reduce the impact of moving a patient at high speeds. The magic would bleed through into the slow lanes, which would be used for normal traffic.

Also, Jedi, would you expect the Darkstar Emporium to have a large warehouse/junkyard located somewhere else, a massive basement, or somewhere else to store all that large tech, or would they specialist purely in handheld (and similarly-sized) devices? Also, good luck buying an FTL drive with cigarettes (though I'm not sure if any FTL tech actually works as such on Felarya; we're discussing Vishmital warp cores not being able to generate or maintain a stable bubble in the unstable dimensional currents of Felarya, though the cores can still be used to generate artificial gravity for more mundane purposes).
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:14 pm

Now THAT'S feedback I like to see. Detailed and making suggestions along the way. Thanks a bunch, Gamma.

Regarding sub-wards, I can see some species being kept from each other so as to minimize further anguish, humans and elves being kept in a separate sub-ward from, say, a naga, as well as species that would require much more specialized knowledge to treat due to a radically different anatomy. Also quarantines for certain unusual cases like a highly contagious infection, but that pretty much goes without saying. On that note, I really like your idea that back-alley doctors in the seedier districts of Negav use shadier and less conventional methods to fix people up, though if I can be perfectly honest, I think your specific example is a little over the top. Karbo has mentioned in the past that fairies are the cream of the crop when it comes to altering the size of other things, and I personally think that shrinking something to near microscopic size would be too much for them, even more so for Gerridis.

On the subject of ambulances, and flying emergency vehicles in general, I recall a thread Karbo made, dated 2013, that detailed rudimentary ideas for transportation around Negav. The main two suggestions were portals, now referred to as traveling gates, linking several district together a la metroline or bus station, and ships with Eidoron rocks at the button of their hull to remain airborne being employed as emergency vehicles. You can see it for yourself here: http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3523-transportation-in-negav In fact, you can find it on the very first page of this very forum, it hasn't sunk to another page. Regardless, I was under the impression that those ships achieved propulsion in a manner similar to Jet Bikes. Naturally, they're not as fast or as maneuverable as Jet Bikes.

As for elevators, I did not think about that at all, and I feel pretty stupid about it. Granted, refugee's question was more about how a normal person would go from one floor to the other rather than personnel escorting patients in a stretcher. I like the idea of the elevators being more magical than technological, but I am having problem wrapping my mind around elevators that also move sideways. I think it would be simpler if there was just a slower elevator used by visitors and a faster one used by personnel. Either way, there would definitely still be stairs for emergencies like hospitals in real life.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:30 pm

Shady wrote:
As for elevators, I did not think about that at all, and I feel pretty stupid about it. Granted, refugee's question was more about how a normal person would go from one floor to the other rather than personnel escorting patients in a stretcher. I like the idea of the elevators being more magical than technological, but I am having problem wrapping my mind around elevators that also move sideways. I think it would be simpler if there was just a slower elevator used by visitors and a faster one used by personnel. Either way, there would definitely still be stairs for emergencies like hospitals in real life

I once thought of floating discs but I must admit I didn't think of side to side motion with them. A traveler's gate would solve some of those issues though but mapping it would be pain. @_@ You;d have to be part Mage and part Engineer. I think you solution works best with a slow vator for regular people and a faster one to keep patients from dying listening to Rosiac Neko Muzak. =P

Shady wrote:
You can see it for yourself here: http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3523-transportation-in-negav In fact, you can find it on the very first page of this very forum, it hasn't sunk to another page. Regardless, I was under the impression that those ships achieved propulsion in a manner similar to Jet Bikes. Naturally, they're not as fast or as maneuverable as Jet Bikes.

This i think is the key to any Eidolon styled transport yes. A magitech engine of some kind like the Jet Bike but likely on a larger scale. Probably she same for military transport and the air barges Karbo designed a while back.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:01 am

Star Trek had an Elevator that could move sideways didn't they? Did they ever say how that worked? I know there was one in Willy Wonka that could move in a variety of directions but again not big on how that happened.

I'm curious though do Vishmital have staff working at the Healer's guild? I remember the article said they use a variety of magical and sceince based medicine and it seems natural to have some people who are experts with the latter half of that equation.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:26 am



though an elevator like this would abandon any pretence this location setting had left of being "pre-industrial"
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:38 am

Doubtful.  Vishmital doctors would probably be relegated to whatever healthcare institution is in the Blue Zone considering that there's most likely more stuff there they're already used to.  The healer's guild is more focused on magic than science.  It just fits the theme of Negav being primarily a city of magic better in my opinion.  When I say modern medical techniques, I mean modern, as in what we in real life know.  Because there's just some shit that magic just can't fix, like a foreign object in the body and probably anything that requires a transplantation.

As for elevators, why does it need to move sideways? What's wrong with it working the way a real elevator does? It's something I notice a lot with fledglings here. They think up of a solution that sounds fancy, but is done just as well, if not better, by a simpler alternative, usually using something that already exists in real life as a basis, and is probably more practical in terms of construction that way. Remember, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Also, like Dark pointed out, it would be too fancy for a city that has yet to fully industrialize. More likely, elevators would be used for transporting patients in critical conditions, while everyone else use the stairs.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:56 pm

Do you want me to continue on the article and build in the things we discussed here over the course of the next few days, including a revision of the lit ciggy bar? Or do you prefer to discuss a little more?

On the subjects of elevators: Personally I preefer traditional elevators using magic or gears over overly mobile ones as well. Otherwise you end up getting streets for elevators, and then you have cars. I dont want cars or a "modern city" feel in Negav. <.< I prefer people to stay on foot with a few flying things around, but not too much.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:23 pm

I should add my own tavern idea, though that's directly relevant to my story series - which will be seen as soon as I get my ass up and continue writing.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:01 am

I say, let's consolidate the Lit-Ciggy bar first, then update the article with everything that was discussed. I'll probably update my entry for the Healer's Guild afterward.

For my part, the bar being a popular spot for hearing performance for minstrels and the like as well as hear a lot of rumors sounds good, but that alone is a little vague. For instance, what kind of rumors generally make it to this bar? And more importantly, who is its clientele? At face value, it seems like it would be your typical MMO tavern, which would be more suited for the Lower Tier rather than the middle one. Even though I'm not overly fond of the concept because it's very shallow, maybe the Lit-Ciggy Bar could be the place where one is likely to hear a performance from Rosic Nekos that survived the trip to the city.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:42 pm

Where a tavern is located would depend on the person who initially built it and what sort of clientele they're trying to serve.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:57 pm

Crap, I lost my post. Well, more to the point this time. Since we wanted to take away the brothel part of the bar, we could replace it with something akin to what you'd find in the red flowers district, like, a show club or something, to keep some of the spice of the place. As for the music, Rosic Nekos and Nemesises are what comes to mind when thinking about proficient musicians, so sounds okay to me.

Hospitals in the real world would appreciate horizontal transportation, since some can even dwarf small airports, but since Negav is restrictive in horizontal space, there'd be no point. The Healer's Guild will most probably built vertically.

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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:09 pm

As far as the Lit-Ciggy Bar is concerned, since the original had a kooky cast of characters that made the place what it is, how about the new version is one of the most popular venues in the Middle Tier for non-humans? It's frequented by a host of lesser known species like Nemeses, and is one of the few places in the Middle Tier where humans and non-humans mingle together, because the owner is very open-minded and fascinated with other races. Going with Ilceren's idea of adding entertainment to the place, how about that the Lit-Ciggy is also famous for having exotic musicians and performers when passing by, but also game nights, like poker tournaments and such?
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:29 pm

Sounds good to me. Anything is an improvement on the the old stub with character quotes as it's only lore.  Neutral If there's organized gambling though does unnamed criminal underworld of Negav have any fingers in the pie?
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:49 pm

No. No, they do not. It's just "hey let's spice up the place with a poker tournament." How did you even come to that conclusion?
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:14 am

Shady Knight wrote:
How did you even come to that conclusion?
Have you ever tried to keep organized crime away from gambling before? Unless it's low-stakes gambling, chances are someone's going to want in on that money.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:37 am

Gamma wrote:

Have you ever tried to keep organized crime away from gambling before?  Unless it's low-stakes gambling, chances are someone's going to want in on that money.



DarkOne wrote:

it's still an brothel for starters,  I mean, no doubt Negav would have brothels somewhere...but the fact that Negav's most popular bar is also a brothel puts Negav as a society as a whole under a extremely deviant light,
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:04 am

DarkOne wrote:

it's still an brothel for starters,  I mean, no doubt Negav would have brothels somewhere...but the fact that Negav's most popular bar is also a brothel puts Negav as a society as a whole under a extremely deviant light,
DarkOne wrote:

Ilceren wrote:
Crap, I lost my post. Well, more to the point this time. Since we wanted to take away the brothel part of the bar, we could replace it with something akin to what you'd find in the red flowers district, like, a show club or something, to keep some of the spice of the place. As for the music, Rosic Nekos and Nemesises are what comes to mind when thinking about proficient musicians, so sounds okay to me.

See?  You're not the only one who can do it, Dark.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Shady Knight wrote:


See?  You're not the only one who can do it, Dark.

...i was pointing out to Gamma that i had already explained the problem with any criminal activey in a very popular and famous establishment. Neutral

i have no idea how you missed that
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:21 am

Considering the the brothel part is most likely going to get axed, that particular explanation doesn't hold water.

I already get Gamma's point, there's really no stopping criminals, especially organized criminals, from being a patron at a bar and participating in a gambling. My issue was that refugee made it sound to me like the potential poker tournaments were only possible because of organized crime, implying that gambling as a whole was illegal, which nowhere does it state that it is. Gamma clarified that for me, and then you dropped in with your usual ineffectual sass, because god forbid you actually get your point across in a straightforward manner like a grown adult or contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:34 pm

Ohhhh! I see. I was thinking like an Earth person, not like a Felaryan! Gambling isn't illegal in Felarya is it? My bad you guys. Disregard my silly opinions. The Mob won't be setting up shop in The Lit Ciggy. Does make wonder if Felarya has no listed narcotics, no gambling and no listed laws just what do they do?? But that is a conversation for another thread I am sensing.
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PostSubject: Re: Negav - Middle Tier   Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:59 pm

Okay, now that I calmed down a bit, it's leave the issue of gambling, or rather gambling card games happening outside the Street of the Red Flower, and focus on something else instead.  Karbo can just answer that one for us after he's done hibernating.
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