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Karbo
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PostSubject: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:37 am

An idea that popped in my head about Negav. What if the effect of the Isolon eyes weren't all beneficial ? that in turn, less advertised effects would be to weaken the properties of the Felarya soil within the area, making its healing less potent and also allowing inhabitants to live long but not being immortal?
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:32 am

I'm not so sure it would work, personally. I've already expressed my dislike of the concept of the soil making you potentially immortal and immune to all traditional illnesses, hence why I ignore both of these completely in my own stories. It seems to be yet another patchwork solution to a long-lasting problem that doesn't actually address the fundamental flaw at hand. The idea of the Isolon Eye having some unintended side-effect is interesting in theory, but if it's just to "correct" the problem of the immortality-granting soil, then it would be better to just retool the soil itself to be weaker from the start in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:10 pm

Karbo wrote:
An idea that popped in my head about Negav. What if the effect of the Isolon eyes weren't all beneficial ?  that in turn, less advertised effects would be to weaken the properties of the Felarya soil within the area, making its healing less potent and also allowing inhabitants to live long but not being immortal?

That is an ...interesting theory to posit. It would shake up the community a little for sure. "Waah! Why can't my character live forever in Negav?! What's the point of even migrating there??" -.-; Buuuut it would solve our theories of overcrowding.

I will say though for sure if the Soil loses it's imortality factor? Nobody will go for that. It's one thing that makes Felarya unique among other fantasy worlds and it balances the danger with the risk of being eaten.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:23 am

I don't know what rock you've been living under for a while, jedi, but there has been pushes to change the way Felarya works so that it makes more sense in and of itself.  For instance, making giants and humans much rarer in the wild.  Use your brain for more than half a second, and ask yourself, "why would massive amounts of people all go to their deaths in Felarya on a daily basis, if knowledge of how dangerous the place is has already become widespread?"  It only serves to shoddily explain how the giant monster girls never run out of humans to munch on, and when you get down to it, it's incredibly shallow.  It makes far more sense that the diets of giants and animals in the wild is other animals, like it works in real life, and that human-like races are considered an extremely rare delicacy.

Plus, what difference does having an infinite lifespan even makes?  If the average life expectancy in the wild is so low because you could be killed at a moment's notice, then what difference does being able to live forever even make?  Once you barely survive a trip out there, which is sure as shit isn't going to last anywhere remotely close to a human's average lifespan in a first-world country, most people aren't going to be stupid enough to go back there unless they had a really, really good reason to do so.  So really, this "immortality" of the soil only serves the giant monster girls.  Again.  The only other people the soil would affect is fortified cities that can repel an attack from a giant like Negav, and as we noted multiple times, it carries the little problem of an un-aging and virtually undying population eventually leading to overpopulation, and in a city where space is severely lacking no less.

Besides, the Isolon Eye weakening the soil would only affect Negav.  What's stopping potential overpopulation in Kelerm from a never-aging and undying population, for instance?  What's stopping the same to happen in Chioita City?  This particular patch does not affect those.  Your problem, jedi, is that you don't think beyond what's presented right in front of you.  And just because something is unique doesn't mean it is good, and the immortality sure isn't good.  Do you truly, honestly not see the big flaw at hand, jedi?  Hack writers can just write super duper awesome and powerful characters that are over 10000 years old or some shit and can totes kick a giant's ass without breaking a sweat because they learned the most ultimate of spells or some other nonsense.  And because it's part of the setting, it can technically happen.  Does characters like that sound like they would be interesting or compelling to read to you, jedi?

Or think about it another way.  Say the soil never granted you immortality, but made you longer-lived instead?  Wouldn't dying of old age, having spent a long life or toil and trouble, be something that's culturally celebrated in Felarya because of how uncommon it is?  Wouldn't it be interesting if in Negav, a general in the military who retired and then eventually died peacefully on his deathbed be regarded as one of the biggest badasses that lived simply because the jungle never managed to kill him?  There's a lot of interesting avenues to explore that are unfortunately closed off because everyone is technically immortal, and that's boring.

That is why I completely ignore the immortality granted by the soil.  It sounds cool in concept, but it completely falls apart under scrutiny for the reasons I enumerated.  In my opinion, the soil should be retooled completely to only grant a longer lifespan, not immortality.  And no immunity to diseases for the same reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:35 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
I don't know what rock you've been living under for a while, jedi, but there has been pushes to change the way Felarya works so that it makes more sense in and of itself.
|

I live underground so I take a little offense to that. This is why we need a board that actually highlights the 'core rules' of Felarya. study  

But as for this debate it seems dumb to me to abandon our sillier less logical side when we're never going to go public or convince the 'fannon factions' that our way is law. Karbo can make decrees on DA and other networks and we'll still have those who don't follow the cannon law not because they are uneducated to what it is or to defy logic for the heck of it but because they prefer their way. Like how i write about battles between human mages, predator tomfoolery and the like even though there's a push for the setting to be darker. I just don't enjoy GoT vibes in Felarya all the time.

Now all that said I can see why some of these changes will work logically but I still think it's suicide. Felarya is trying to be too serious. I mean it's like injecting hard science into Doctor Who. It can be fine once but if that's what the show was about it'd fall apart.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:42 am

The Core Rulebook of Felarya Re-re-vised edition 40th edition mayhaps? Laughing

I wouldn't be against the Idea of having the rules layed out actually ,because like Sir Jedi says, there are some who loosely interpret the cannon rules and some, like yourself, Sir Shady, who go against what they stand for to write/roleplay the way they want. It leaves us new people caught in the crossfire not totally sure which path to follow sometimes.  sobsob 

That asside I actually do agree the immortality factor does more harm than good in the long run. Negav may have the means to thin it's population down without extreme measures but Kelerm and Chiotia do not I think. Harsher life styles and living so close to predators without a constant source of protection like The Isolon Eye. The Barrier of Kelp and the huge rock walls are less sure to last and all encompassing on a whole.

Though I will say the push to reduce predator encounters will never work. It is what makes the series unique and witout them fans will have a mass exodus. Even Ayralef still has predator attacks frequently in the wild does it not? Ofcourse even if it is the answer is rendered moot by my earlier theory that fans will be fans.  Laughing It is rather a Gordian Knott no?
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:18 pm

Creatures like Dusk Nymph can bypass the protection of the Eye why?

The Eye seems to react to the voracity of the predators so a giant creature can still cause a rampage due to the fact it doesn't eat humans or humanoid. The Eye cannot prevent homicide or many militaries or mercenaries won't be able to step a foot inside the cities.

It states the effect of the Eye can be lethal to a predator which was closed to it does it affect ghosts or vampires which are already dead?

Creatures like Mirror Lurkers or Mirror Maws can be a potential threat they exist in a parallel dimension when they cannot directly attack people due to the Eye so they have to lure people in their dimension first ?

Or creature attacking people in their dreams not like Nemesis but creature living in a dimension people access through dream.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:14 pm

Yeah I think Nemesi get away with it because they eat people in their dreams through Lydus - at least that's how I interpret it, which is technically a dimension unaffected by the eye.

Dusk Nymphs I've always been curious about as well. They are definitely voracious, and being able to turn into a shadow is mutually exclusive from their hunger - that is, being hungry and being a shadow have absolutely nothing in common. Even should they eat through their shadow, it still takes place in the same space-time that the eye affects. Claiming "Shadow Magic is powerful" is not a good enough reason. It needs to be logical in-universe. The eye is said to affect different people in different ways, but to me that's still not enough of a reason to call out an entire species (see:dusk nymph) from being immune to the eye.

Unless of course we want to say Dusk Nymphs actually exist in Lydus, and like the Negative Hydra, produce an avatar, which would mean the eye would have to affect their real body, which is currently not in this world - but doing so makes the Dusk Nymphs even more powerful than they already are, and shadow creatures are [arguably] the most deadly, in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:58 am

Actually, gwada, it's a combination of size and voracity.

Da Wiki wrote:
[...]what matters is that it keeps many gargantuan monsters from coming in proximity of the city. The Eye does not project some sort of tangible force-field, rather it creates magical vibrations that repel man-eating creatures over an enormous radius. Some researchers have established that the larger and more voracious the creature, the more pronounced the effects are. For example, the naga Crisis or the succubus Menyssan, both infamous for their enormous appetite for humans, would be stopped at a large distance away from Negav while a smaller, less voracious pantaur could venture closer to the city.

So a creature like a small naga who does prey on humans and see them as food would be much less affected than its giant cousins, and could sneak into the city. The one exception, which is also noted, are fairies.

Quote :
Interestingly, fairies appear to be the most affected by the Eye, as unless they absolutely do not see humanoids as food, they will be repelled regardless of their current size.

Also, the plural of nemesis is nemeses.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:21 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Actually, gwada, it's a combination of size and voracity.

Da Wiki wrote:
[...]what matters is that it keeps many gargantuan monsters from coming in proximity of the city. The Eye does not project some sort of tangible force-field, rather it creates magical vibrations that repel man-eating creatures over an enormous radius. Some researchers have established that the larger and more voracious the creature, the more pronounced the effects are. For example, the naga Crisis or the succubus Menyssan, both infamous for their enormous appetite for humans, would be stopped at a large distance away from Negav while a smaller, less voracious pantaur could venture closer to the city.

So a creature like a small naga who does prey on humans and see them as food would be much less affected than its giant cousins, and could sneak into the city.  The one exception, which is also noted, are fairies.

Quote :
Interestingly, fairies appear to be the most affected by the Eye, as unless they absolutely do not see humanoids as food, they will be repelled regardless of their current size.

Voracity is what the Eyes affects in priorities and the size gives us a sense of scale, fairies have the same voracity of any giant creature no matter the size they have. That's why I'm not relying on the size factors.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:03 am

I'm pretty sure that still means the size is a big factor, But let's not get into a rules-lawyer contest.  You see voracity as the sole relevant factor?  That's fine.  You have your way of doing things and I have mine.

Also, do you absolutely have to use the quote feature when responding to the person who posted just before you?  I'm pretty sure I'm able to tell just by your text that you're either replying to the main post or the person who posted before you.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:05 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, do you absolutely have to use the quote feature when responding to the person who posted just before you?  I'm pretty sure I'm able to tell just by your text that you're either replying to the main post or the person who posted before you.
I used quote when I answer to someone when I don't use them I speak about the thread in general.

The questions I asked was not a direct reply to the previous post but in relation to the flaws the Eye seems to posses, stating it's weakening the soil it's somehow admit the protection is flawless which is not. Dusk Nymph's immunity has never been exploited, some creature exist in other dimensions and lure their prey in their own world before to eat them, I don't think the Eye are a threat for them etc...
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:28 pm

Doesn't change the fact that Dusk Nymphs are mysteriously unaffected by the Eye. The fact the wiki page on Dusk Nymphs also say that there is some kind of reason for it, and not even the Magiocrats who created it knows doesn't sit well with me, especially because Dusk Nymphs are a subspecies of fairies, who are supposed to be affected most by it.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:21 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that Dusk Nymphs are mysteriously unaffected by the Eye. The fact the wiki page on Dusk Nymphs also say that there is some kind of reason for it, and not even the Magiocrats who created it knows doesn't sit well with me, especially because Dusk Nymphs are a subspecies of fairies, who are supposed to be affected most by it.


They are a fairy subspecies but are they not also.a Shadow Elemental? I think this holds the key. Shadow Elementals are insubstantial one moment, making them hard to attack, then they solidify and eat you, as do their mutant love children. They, for lack of a better term, 'phase' from one plane to the next. Is this also not true for Mirror Lurkers? They can exist in the Mirror Planes but not the physical except on that one day. Nemesai/ses/si can bypass thus plane and grab a person in their dreams. It all comes down to different types of the same magic. 

I think the three Magiocrats didn't take into account that there would be a weakness when dealing with dimensional beings who can phase because the Eye was build to ward physical plane dwelling beings as they are the most common Felaryan predator in the Central Jungle where it is located. They do not encounter many elementals, ghosts or other multi-plane dwellers besides a Nemesis Assassin or a Mirror Maw on the dreaded day. I imagine nobody really studies multi deminsional phasing much, the academy is likely more interested in honing magics that are profitable right? This seems at beat like fringe theory since I an certain no Elementals, Ghosts, Nemesisesaii , Dusk Nymphs or other 'Phasers' volunteer to share their secrets.


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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:27 pm

Shadows do not phase in and out of planes of existences. They are still a fairy despite whatever state they are in. Plus, Crimson Maidens are part Fire Elementals, and they'd also be affected by it. Being part elemental doesn't really have much to do with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:33 pm

But a shadow is not a solid state. Is it not true that technically science has not ever categorized what a shadow is other than 'an absence of light' and light itself can never be a solid outside of some video games? Is it wrong then to posit that a shadow can exist on multiple planes? Especially in a world of magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Yeah but a shadow is not FROM another plane. Don't mix up the two. Because the predator in question is embodied as a shadow, they still have wants, desires, and such. Including their voracious appetite.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:23 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Yeah but a shadow is not FROM another plane. Don't mix up the two. Because the predator in question is embodied as a shadow, they still have wants, desires, and such. Including their voracious appetite.

You do have a good point, Sir Bael. I concede my theory to be incomplete without taking those into account. Upon review I am wrong. Being a shadow does not erase one's intent as a predator. Though I would add they do seem to possess some immunity and if it is not that power of phasing then I say it may be unique to their blend of parental traits. But what of the others?
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:23 am

So, to both address the dusk nymph's seeming immunity and go back to the original question, I think we need to know how the Isolon Eye actually works, at least in a broad but proximate effects-based sense, not just the end result.  I'm going to disagree with Gwada and say that it's very likely that the Eye does function on size; you have to remember that fairy size-changing doesn't actually change the size of the fairy so much as the size of their interface with the world (see Archmage Mezzus's dissertation on the subject), and the Eye's effects likely can bypass such scaling and work on the fairy's true size (this carries with it the implication that a fairy's true, default size is larger than a human but perhaps smaller than normal predators).  Additionally, size as the primary targeting factor explains the various human-sized demihumans that like to eat tinies that live in Negav.  As for dusk nymphs, I posit that their shadow form is more reflective of their true nature than their three-dimensional form, which is merely a projection, and thus, despite their seeming size, they don't actually have enough volume to be affected by the Eye.

With that in mind, here's what I understand as us having to work with from the Eye:

  • The Eye causes unpleasant to deadly effects to creatures above a certain size.
  • The power of the effect increases with proximity to the eye.
  • The power of the effect increases with the size (I'm going to say volume here) of the creature.  Human-sized creatures can be within a few hundred feet and suffer no ill effects; twenty-meter-tall predators cannot approach within several dozen miles without suffering significant ill effects.
  • The power of the effect increases with the desire of the creature to eat sentient prey.  Given that this seems not to affect those who eat tinies and no completely benign predator has yet taken up residence in Negav, I theorize that this is a secondary effect added by the Psi'ol to provide additional buffer against the most powerful predators.


Going from this list, I think there are two logical side-effects:

  • While the Eye's effect is not noticeable to human-sized creatures in short-term scales, chronic exposure to it has a long-term effect similar in nature to the effect suffered by predators.  I would personally have the effect on human-sized creatures never reach lethal levels or to take centuries to do so, and could be alleviated by exposure to Felaryan soil while outside of the Eye's effect, but still be a significant debilitation to life-long Negavians after a few lifetimes of  exposure.  Tinies would logically accumulate this at a much lower rate.
  • More broadly, the energies of the Eye permeate the area, resulting in adverse effects to certain magics, technologies, or even biologies.  One side effect that would make sense is that size-changing magic, even on inanimate objects, results in localized distortions in the Eye's field which weaken material structures.  This would also solve the problem of people using magic to multiply raw materials or food using size-changing magic within Negav.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:24 am

Well, I can already answer how the Eye works in a somewhat physical sense.  When I re-wrote the main article of Negav, I took some cues from the Antipathy spell from D&D.  Antipathy causes an object (in this case, the Eye) or location to emanate magical vibrations that repel either a specific kind of intelligent creature or creatures of a specific-alignment, as defined by the caster.  Affected creatures are compelled to willingly abandon the area or item, shun it and never willingly return while the spell is in effect.  It does mention that, in the case a save is successful, the creature can approach the affected item or area, but remains uncomfortable while doing so.  So we can surmise that the effect of the spell causes an extreme sensation of discomfort that's too much for the affected creature to handle.

The Isolon Eye, as I see it, is basically that concept on an epic scale.  From what we know, the vibrations emanate from an object, the Eye itself, and covers a radius of several miles.  The affected creatures in this particular case are, for the most part, large creatures with a mindset that sees humans and small races as prey.  The larger and more voracious the creature, the stronger the effects, and the closer to the Eye, the stronger the effects are also.  It's also safe to assume that, in the case of the Eye, non-sapient creatures are also affected, since there doesn't seem to be any reports of, say, Kensha Beasts terrorizing the Negav or Nekomura area.

As for fairies, this is my personal take on it: In the case of fairies, The Eye doesn't check for the size or the fairy itself, so much as the kind of magic it exudes.  The magic stored in their wings is unique to them, which makes it very easy to identify a fairy if you can detect or analyze their magic.  As a result, any creature that exudes that specific kind of magic in high enough quantity is immediately repelled regardless of their size.  The way I see it, a fairy could bypass the effect of the Eye, but it would require the removal of their wings, something I'm sure none of them would be willing to do so of their own volition.

This still leaves the mystery of the Dusk Nymphs.  In my opinion, the Dusk Nymphs' immunity to the effect of the eye is poorly explained, by which I mean it's not explained at all, and feels more like a relic of the past when we didn't think too hard about that kind of shit.  Methinks they're due for a visit at the old updates workshop.

Also, Bael, nowhere in the wiki does it state that Crimson Maidens are part Fire Elemental. All it says is that they are incredibly proficient at fire magic, but proficiency doesn't equate to being part Fire Elemental.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:34 pm

Shady Knight wrote:

The Isolon Eye, as I see it, is basically that concept on an epic scale.  From what we know, the vibrations emanate from an object, the Eye itself, and covers a radius of several miles.  The affected creatures in this particular case are, for the most part, large creatures with a mindset that sees humans and small races as prey.  The larger and more voracious the creature, the stronger the effects, and the closer to the Eye, the stronger the effects are also.  It's also safe to assume that, in the case of the Eye, non-sapient creatures are also affected, since there doesn't seem to be any reports of, say, Kensha Beasts terrorizing the Negav or Nekomura area.

As for fairies, this is my personal take on it: In the case of fairies, The Eye doesn't check for the size or the fairy itself, so much as the kind of magic it exudes.  The magic stored in their wings is unique to them, which makes it very easy to identify a fairy if you can detect or analyze their magic.  As a result, any creature that exudes that specific kind of magic in high enough quantity is immediately repelled regardless of their size.  The way I see it, a fairy could bypass the effect of the Eye, but it would require the removal of their wings, something I'm sure none of them would be willing to do so of their own volition.

Gamma's explanation looks more plausible:

Gamma wrote:
So, to both address the dusk nymph's seeming immunity and go back to the original question, I think we need to know how the Isolon Eye actually works, at least in a broad but proximate effects-based sense, not just the end result. I'm going to disagree with Gwada and say that it's very likely that the Eye does function on size; you have to remember that fairy size-changing doesn't actually change the size of the fairy so much as the size of their interface with the world (see Archmage Mezzus's dissertation on the subject), and the Eye's effects likely can bypass such scaling and work on the fairy's true size (this carries with it the implication that a fairy's true, default size is larger than a human but perhaps smaller than normal predators).

He acknowledged the specificity of the fairies without adding a new rule, in your explanation you somewhat admit size is not a decisive factor even if you make the exception only for fairies, the Eye is not an intelligent systems it just produces repelling wave or whatever you want to dissuade potential predators to come closer the city it doesn't check if it's it's a fairy or not. Its effects work on fairies in the same ways it was a naga, or a succubus with no distinction.

Gamma wrote:
Additionally, size as the primary targeting factor explains the various human-sized demihumans that like to eat tinies that live in Negav.

I think the magiocrats didn't care about the tinies but more about the creatures able to prey on them. People who eats tinies is not on their top priorities.

Shady Knight wrote:
This still leaves the mystery of the Dusk Nymphs.  In my opinion, the Dusk Nymphs' immunity to the effect of the eye is poorly explained, by which I mean it's not explained at all, and feels more like a relic of the past when we didn't think too hard about that kind of shit.

I don't think remove it because it's not explained or it's an old concept, we should dig on the subject to find a concrete answer to the current topic
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:14 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
Also, Bael, nowhere in the wiki does it state that Crimson Maidens are part Fire Elemental.  All it says is that they are incredibly proficient at fire magic, but proficiency doesn't equate to being part Fire Elemental.

Not directly, no. However da wiki:
Quote :
Their most interesting relationship however is with elementals. For some reason, many fairies choose to mate with them instead of other fairies. This results in a great number of crossbreeds who are often much more dangerous than their parent species. How fairies are able to mate with elementals is a complete mystery, leading researchers to believe that fairies reproduce in a manner far different from other humanoids.

Also, regarding Crimson Maidens I am a little confused at two things.

da wiki wrote:
Typically tall and thin, most members of the tribe have red or pink hair and bright red eyes and are, for the most part, female. Indeed, a large portion of the male population perished in the last war they waged. They have not yet recovered from this gender imbalance, so currently their society is matriarchal in structure.

followed by at the end:

da wiki wrote:
They are a highly militaristic society though, and in the face of a serious danger, they will assemble their dreaded Fire Legions and march to battle. According to the tales, every time they have done so, their enemies have run in terror after facing them in combat. Survivors could only speak of horrible monsters who could turn things to ash with a touch and whose gaze melted everything it rested upon.

"Crimson maidens are, by far, the most dangerous species of fairy you could encounter anywhere in Felarya." Makes me wonder how the male population declined. Could be wrong, but it seems like this may need a visit to the update workshop as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:47 pm

Hold up! I still think Fel has something with their theory of Dusk Nymph's positing their shadow forms that give them the immunity. Think about it if the Isolon Eye targets a predator the inflicts pain on them till they are driven away or die right? Right. So then it is based on them having pain nerves to inflict pain on, yes? So we can posit that a creature that turns into a shadow is immune by dent of having no nerves to inflict pain on.

The sad fact is Elementals rarely attack Negav and we cannot see this in action, but it is possibly a little known weakness. In fact the  Magiocrats probably keep the Isolon Fist around for that very reason, to be a third line of defense for anything tha,t for whatever reason, can bypass the Eye's feild and quickly put it down to reassure secruity is mantainable and no one questions how this happened too deeply. If somebody witnesses it, misinformation can be spread from loyalists and officials and eventually the account is covered up or ends up a pub rumor. This is even more likely in a Felarya where predator encounters are much rarer than we see in the comics because it only happens once in a blue moon.

I also posit that, unlike my Dusk Nymph's rumor from.Felaryan Madness, there is no secret colony of Dusk Nymphs living under Negav. In fact there is probably less of them now that Deméchrelle is sealed away and her armies are concentrated in the Tenebra Maze and no longer invading. Maybe they are concentrated in caves under Negav or  around it and only risk detection when the craving for human , Neko or Elf is too strong or when they piggy back....on a .....shadow.

I think I got it. Dusk Nymphs can piggy back on shadows by melding into them. A common way they follow humans home for 'dinner'. They fool the eye by becoming a shadow that copies the size if the human, but more than that a shadow on a magical level may in fact bypass the system in the sane way Mirror Lurkers do: they are both forms of illusion made solid. The difference is Lurkers impersonate humans and other creatures without casting a shadow or 'anchor' into the physical world, thus are less stable but Dusk Nymphs live in BOTH planes of existence much like how size shifting isn't really changing size.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:39 am

gwadahunter2222 wrote:
Gamma's explanation looks more plausible

I never liked the "dissertation" considering the fairy's size-shifting magic. I'm of the mindset that if you need a wall of text just to explain something, then you failed at explaining it. That's why I much prefer my version. But if you like Gamma's better, that's totally fine.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:
I don't think remove it because it's not explained or it's an old concept, we should dig on the subject to find a concrete answer to the current topic

I never said it needed to be removed. I said it was due for an update.
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PostSubject: Re: Isolon eyes secondary effects ?   Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:35 pm

Before answering to your post Shady, I informed you I have read the first post you deleted. It was a literal child tantrum, despite acting mature you're still the immature and arrogant hypocrite since you came on this forum. I want you know it.

Shady Knight wrote:
I never liked the "dissertation" considering the fairy's size-shifting magic.  I'm of the mindset that if you need a wall of text just to explain something, then you failed at explaining it.  That's why I much prefer my version.  But if you like Gamma's better, that's totally fine.

Whether you like it or not, it's not the question. It's a solid and complete answer about fairy change their size without raising more questions. I don't care if brevity is the soul of the wit or there are too many words for you coming from someone who proposed huge wall of text to rewrite the Naga, harpy and Lily's entry Shocked . It's providing a clear and complete solution, I didn't just post I like Gamma's answer I wrote an explanation why if I remember he's explanation wasn't a huge wall of text, I offered you a critic why I think your explanation has some flaws compared to Gamma's one. I know it's my own point of view and you have yours. You are free to acknowledge it or not. The objective of this thread is to give our opinion on the subject and share our point of view. Even if you deleted it you clearly express your desire to close any discussion on the subject. that's your choice but you are on a public forum, so I will continue to post my opinion whether you like it or not.

Shady Knight wrote:
I never said it needed to be removed.  I said it was due for an update.
Even if you change the original answer where you complained about how I was conveniently ignoring part of your answer while you willingly ignored other explanation because it has too many words. It was the peak of hypocrisy.
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